PvP Discussion #2 - Steam Details

[WittleBunnBun 149]

1 minute ago, SmeJack said:

 

Because this isn't pve this is war, if you want cute you might be in the wrong place

 

 

There is a place for cute in every context. I love PvP, I also love baby horses. I would hate that the PvP server takes this aspect away because it adds balance to warfare. Especially with establishing safe zones, there are ways to be more a PvE than PvP player on a PvP map. Like to grow the crops? Like to do the mundane house keeping for the deed, but might not want to go raid? cool, there is a place for you--just stay on deed and be more PvE than PvP. 

[SmeJack 5,796]

Ok sure but do you really want to see your kingdoms crippled from horse losses waiting on foals growing for the sake of cute? Sorry but we are trying to fix problems not perpetuate them.

[WittleBunnBun 149]

3 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Ok sure but do you really want to see your kingdoms crippled from horse losses waiting on foals growing for the sake of cute? Sorry but we are trying to fix problems not perpetuate them.

Thats part of being a breeder. Just don't have a bad breeder and you will be okay. I still dont see this argument. You are nerfing breeding by that just cuz you dont want to rely on a good breeder

[SmeJack 5,796]

Im not sure you understand. Its late and i cant be bothered going into too much detail but the loss of 30 horses from one fight and having the space to replace them has nothing to do with how good you are at breeding. If you want to pm i can explain that and capitals and all the rest you dont know tomorrow.

[WittleBunnBun 149]

52 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

If you want to pm i can explain that and capitals and all the rest you dont know tomorrow.

 

No thank you. Darklords clarified what he intended for capitals, which is what I was asking. Also, I still stand by how I see it, so its time to respectfully agree to disagree. 

EDIT: I would like to also express about this horse/foal debacle that PvP breeding is much more involved than PvE breeding, which is a huge reason why I like PvP. To supply a deed in PvE with horses is very fast, and then what? Sell them to a bloated economy? That is not so fun and I tend to find myself not able to breed anymore due to overpopulation and low demand. I like the idea of PvP breeding because of the mass horse kill-offs. There finally will be enough demand for my 100+ horse breeding and I don't have to stop breeding ... like ever, which is amazing. So, please don't nerf breeding just because some people don't have a breeder that is willing to mass produce horses. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by WittleBunnBun

[AceRifle 1,223]

1 hour ago, WittleBunnBun said:

 

No thank you. Darklords clarified what he intended for capitals, which is what I was asking. Also, I still stand by how I see it, so its time to respectfully agree to disagree. 

EDIT: I would like to also express about this horse/foal debacle that PvP breeding is much more involved than PvE breeding, which is a huge reason why I like PvP. To supply a deed in PvE with horses is very fast, and then what? Sell them to a bloated economy? That is not so fun and I tend to find myself not able to breed anymore due to overpopulation and low demand. I like the idea of PvP breeding because of the mass horse kill-offs. There finally will be enough demand for my 100+ horse breeding and I don't have to stop breeding ... like ever, which is amazing. So, please don't nerf breeding just because some people don't have a breeder that is willing to mass produce horses. 

I think you under estimate the scale and how simple it is to kill horses in fights on an active pvp server. 100+ horse breeding program that’s nothing to what most pvpers have. You’re coming with a mind set that pvpers don’t have active horses breeders which isnt true.

Its clear you’ve never lost all you rideable horses in Pvp and then have your horse breeding pen raided and slaughtered the same night. Skipping foal stage isn’t a big deal you’ll live. I wouldn’t expect someone who started playing in 2018 to understand since the pvp population died off drastically late 2014. 

[WittleBunnBun 149]

29 minutes ago, AceRifle said:

You’re coming with a mind set that pvpers don’t have active horses breeders which isnt true.

Its clear you’ve never lost all you rideable horses in Pvp and then have your horse breeding pen raided and slaughtered the same night.

 

No, I never said PvP doesn't have active horse breeders, I am saying please don't nerf horse breeding just because someone said they didn't want the added struggle to horse breeding. Also, I have lost my horse herds many times. It is not hard to get a good herd going from scratch if you know what you are doing. 

 

Also, I think you are coming with the mind set that this PvP server will be like chaos or EPIC when it is not. It's a completely different set up with more PvE tones such as safe zones and raid windows. It reminds me of what a lot of successful PvPvE WU servers are doing to keep both PvE and PvP players on the map and have -both- styles in their game play. So again, I stand by my stance on this topic.  

[eldarian 166]

I 100% agree that the foal stage should not be skipped, not because of the pleasure of breeding, but wurm is not a speed game, its a slower paced game and that's part of the thrill, if the foal stage is skipped players will have fast horses instantly almost from the start of the server and I don't think that should be a thing. part of the struggle is working to get everything up to what you need to successfully pvp. I don't see the need or the want in everyone being handed things to make their pvp experience easier, the loss of horses and not being able to get them replaced instantly is part of the experience and part of how real medieval warefare is. learn to fight with or without the horses you don't need them instantly handed to you.

[Quicktor 1,348]

wise words from the bringer of death

 

nonetheless, it all sounds reasonable if you read this when you didn't pvp much in the past

but the reality is different and i think darklords will understand this point cause he himself was in those situations i am sure

 

there is no "working around" not having horses to pvp with other than sitting on deed and waiting a week until they are rideable / breedable

i'd like to see you guys competing with cows and bulls tho

 

hell, there could even be a foal stage but rideable like he said in an earlier post, but then it would ruin your immersion i guess

[Skatyna 432]

i said it many times, will repeat again - as long you you totally loose your gear upon pvp, there will be no pvp unless ppl are certain they will win the fight/battle. happened in old wild, happened in epic, happened in chaos. same stuff over and over again.. noone wanders alone as noone wants the long chores of re-crafting the gear for 5 minutes fun. not even talking that ppl never fight with their best gear. I had also suggested long ago to implement a rune, that prevents item being lost upon death, so ppl can have their gear safe. The loot was never the aim to go pvp as once again - ppl never pvp in their shiny stuff anyways. Implement battle ranks instead, that award you battle points, that can be spend alike loyalty mark store on some farwalkers, ress stones, CAPES! yes, ppl always wanted capes, why not making them available via extreme pvp only? Some might say ranks system can be easily exploited.. well anything can be easily exploited in wurm, thing is ppl start exploiting stuff as a way to find means to achieve goals.. If there were plenty ppl you can meet and fight whenever you feel like it, why would you even consider making some alt, grinding it a bit and silently killing somewhere in the shadows.. Aither way, if someone still chose to do so, its easy to notice for everyone via death tab that the player A always seems to kill only player B.. 

 

Either way, as much hope as someone is putting into this steam pvp, im the one who wont even bother with it, as the way i see it its once again a game of "tweak and nerf" settings but nothing changed fundamentally. So the outcome of the server is predetermined already as we seen in the past. 

 

Edit: Might even expand the idea of the capes, even tho this is not the suggestion topic. the capes could have ranks.. Each rank adds effective pts in body stats the player chooses with a different cape skin. So acquiring battle points could be spend upgrading those capes with each level adding more effective body stats. like +1 per level of the cape. Not insane amounts to dis balance things quickly, but enough motivation to go out and look for pvp. Exclusive game content for PVPers. The game content makes ppl pvp the most, so make that content rather than skipping the foal stage of the horse lol. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Skatyna

[Army 1,101]

19 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

i said it many times, will repeat again - as long you you totally loose your gear upon pvp, there will be no pvp unless ppl are certain they will win the fight/battle.

This is so wrong, it almost looks like you are trolling.

 

5 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

happened in epic

No, no, 100x no. Some people may do this (*cought* homeserver players *cought*), but then it's not a game problem, but a mentality problem.

I'm playing on a PvP server to have fun, not to stack up shiny stuff in a bunker that noone ever reaches - Freedom is better for that.

People always used rare and supreme items in battles on Epic, and there is no reason not to do so, as saving up all your stuff makes absolutely no sense.

 

18 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

noone wanders alone as noone wants the long chores of re-crafting the gear for 5 minutes fun.

As an epic player, I'm really wondering whats taking so long here? It takes you 30 minutes to get a decent weapon and armor set again with the curve, assuming you have a priest alt (or friend) available for parallel enchanting. Maybe double the time if you are really going for high-end gear or good enchants.

What's the point of skilling up smithing and creating gear if all you are doing with it is stacking it up in an underground bunker?

 

Also let's see it from the other side: why would you go out and fight if all of your stuff stays safe anyways? Where is the thrill? The risk? The impact in the enemies economy?

Full loot PvP is a great concept, and I don't see any reason to add more gear-saving mechanics.

[Skatyna 432]

20 minutes ago, Army said:

Full loot PvP is a great concept, and I don't see any reason to add more gear-saving mechanics.

 

yeah, right, and how much pvp do you see? Epic is such an old cluster, so many hatchlings and dragons were killed. how many times have you seen a player pvping in scale or drake? NONE. Hell, even so few used to wear ada/glimmer back in the day yet everyone had it. Easy for you to say that if you never had anything of big value to loose in pvp.  also, i never said no complete loot, i just said the ability to rune certain items you dont wanna loose. The corpse would still be there, you still would be able to loot some cotton, steel'n'flint, arrows some other crap if you really need that.

 

20 minutes ago, Army said:

Also let's see it from the other side: why would you go out and fight if all of your stuff stays safe anyways? Where is the thrill? The risk? The impact in the enemies economy?

 

thats why i mentioned the game content in the remainder of my post. Proper content makes ppl pvp. What impact would it make on the "enemies economy" as you say if all you can loot is some chain/leather set with mediocre weapons you craft in 30 minutes? (surely not the end gear items)  Sure you might think this is good loot, others just leave it rot un-looted as its not worth the hassle to bring back. Every pvper wants some sort of an edge over opponent,  so i would much rather fight everyone in the top notch gear/abilities over and over again thinking what i can improve myself to gain an edge rather than just sitting on deed waiting for 10 friends to log it so we can ride to enemy kingdom hoping to find no more than 5 defenders as the only other option for me is ride alone and find 5 defenders... once again, pvp content needs to be ADDED, not just taken away over and over, stuff like - no tomes, no meditation, no foals, no slopes... you name it.. that will never work in pvp. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Skatyna

[Quicktor 1,348]

what are you even talking about

moonmetal was directly put into weapons and armor as soon as you had enough

drake and scale drops were way lower and yet, also those were worn

 

where do you have that info from?

[Jaz 2,665]

1 hour ago, Skatyna said:

 

yeah, right, and how much pvp do you see? Epic is such an old cluster, so many hatchlings and dragons were killed. how many times have you seen a player pvping in scale or drake? NONE. Hell, even so few used to wear ada/glimmer back in the day yet everyone had it. Easy for you to say that if you never had anything of big value to loose in pvp.  also, i never said no complete loot, i just said the ability to rune certain items you dont wanna loose. The corpse would still be there, you still would be able to loot some cotton, steel'n'flint, arrows some other crap if you really need that.

 

Quite everyone used moonmetal armour and weapons on Elevation including me who was a late joiner. It is already too easy to keep the gear, the current changes making it a bit harder is actually a good direction.

 

1 hour ago, Skatyna said:

sitting on deed waiting for 10 friends to log it so we can ride to enemy kingdom hoping to find no more than 5 defenders as the only other option for me is ride alone and find 5 defenders... once again, pvp content needs to be ADDED, not just taken away over and over, stuff like - no tomes, no meditation, no foals, no slopes... you name it.. that will never work in pvp. 

Actually with more even playground (no champs, tomes etc) it is more content ADDED. Players and tactics are more valued this way against the gear hoarded.

[Skatyna 432]

i just said my opinion, no harsh feelings  once again i wont be playing there. But mark my words, the new pvp server will be dead in few months since the start again.. 

[Skatyna 432]

1 hour ago, Quicktor said:

moonmetal was directly put into weapons and armor as soon as you had enough

drake and scale drops were way lower and yet, also those were worn

 

Not saying they were not worn, but not when going out pvp. moonmetal was only worn if the group gathers a knarr full of ppl. The times iv seen lonely pvper scavenging around, he NEVER ever had moon gear on him, even tho i know he had it. 

Chaps running around in drake/scale on their home servers, yet when any of them cross to enemy server, they all are wearing leather/chain/plate. Now you speak the best gear was worn every time.. yeah right..

 

here, have a look at the latest Epic skirmish.

 

 

How many moonmetal gear do you see? likes Hellfang doesnt have one lol? Bl crew doesnt have any? Not slagging off any of those players, its the meta everyone does. Im just stating facts i would like to see gone. 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Skatyna

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

if i was in either a 2 man sailboat or a rowboat on a suicide run to an enemy home server for carefree pvp i probably wouldn't have moonmetal on me no thats just silly

 

isnt the guy in the front of the rare sailboat wearing seryll plate or is that just dye

also

ciray has a scale glove on he's straight reppin

[Skatyna 432]

13 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

ciray has a scale glove on he's straight reppin

 

yeah, must have forgot to unequip properly in a hurry  doesnt change my point tho.

 

other thing is all are wondering why PVE players cont want to go PVP. their answer is always "dont wanna loose stuff". So what would you rather have - ppl to pvp with inability to loot them fully or no ppl to pvp at all? gathering up pvp community should not be only withing the thin ranks of current pvpers, it should be across the player base as a whole. yet majority of that player base aint even interested to post anything atm simply cuz they are not interested. The job here should be to make them interested in joining pvp servers to play. The cold blood pvpers will be gone withing weeks when they realise theres noone to pvp against again. 

 

I rest my case tho. i said my opinions take it or leave it. ✌️

 

 

[steamedlunch 11]

We can make shiny equipment that only improves its shine in a combat related manor. Like bloodthirst but not.

penalty would be its only effective on players. So its not used elsewhere

Edited July 4, 2020 by steamedlunch

[Quicktor 1,348]

everything is lost having a conversation with this guy

but hey, bring foals back, he knows best 

 

 

[Enzius 485]

The time has come and so have I. The JK Coast Guard will sail again.

 

Also definitely make horses grow slower. It'll be more fun to kill them all when we break in. ❤️

[atazs 962]

When you eliminate full loot, you'll also have less people pvping because they won't be able to get loot off of people.

Myself included. I won't even bother with pvp if there is no full loot. 

 

Revenant on WU sort of removed full loot and still nobody pvped because it was boring. People will just grief others non stop, and everything would stagnate if people wouldn't lose their gear, as they could just re-enter the battlefield immedietly

It's clear that many of you complaining about full loot never PvPed. Part of the thrill, and the point of pvp is that you can lose your gear any time. If you don't like that, then PvP is not for you, and we don't need you. 

I've lost hundreds of euros worth of gear in PvP before, yes it sucked, but that's just the way it is. It's like gambling, you might lose big, but you might also gain big. 

Now that RMT is removed, gear value will matter a lot less, and since you won't be able to bring gear between PvP and PvE losing good gear will matter even less and gives you a bigger chance of getting your gear back from the enemy, since they can't move it off server.

A highly skilled, highly experienced person with average or bad gear will beat a non skilled, non experienced person decked out in the best gear. Usually PvP is also a group effort, highly coordinated, very rarely you get 1v1s unless you specifically seek it out. A person with bad gear but good skills/experience can do just as good in those scenarios as anyone else.

 

There is no economy on PvP servers, if you are an active pvper or active in the kingdom, you will be given free gear and enchants if you ask for it/if people know you lost yours in battle.

Edited July 5, 2020 by atazs

[eldarian 166]

 

 

with the server being isolated to just the one pvp server for items, there is plenty of opportunity to get your gear back, I don't understand why full loot wouldn't be a thing. iv played 100s of games that are full loot and tbh many of the gaming industry is going to games like this for pvp. it is higher risk, which makes the game more of a thrill. removing full loot would be a drastic mistake.

 

I do have a suggestion on those people who refuse to wear good armor and so forth and hide it on alts so it isn't lost, why not increase decay rates of items that are stored on a player alt, the more the character is not active the faster the decay rate will increase...this would force the items to decay that so many people try to hide away on an alt for fear of loss. like their could be a criteria such as said character must be premium to not have decay rate if its non prem there is already a penalty to storing on it. and say the character must move this many tiles in said time or decay rate will increase. or they have to be within enemy range of like 50 tiles or something...just a thought for those who hide away their gear. on same note since people will argue about it such items like armor equipped wouldn't be subject to this decay it be inventory itself.

 

might be a bad idea might not, but its an idea to force items into the pvp fray that everyone refuses to use.

[phennexion 170]

I really like the safezone idea. This will allow PvE minded players to still contribute and feel included in the village without having to go out of their comfort zone. Giving more reason for players to keep playing by contributing to group goals is very important.

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

Will the healing reduction increase from earlier this year be looked at before this server releases? from my understanding, it was from people tanking hits and healing it up while in the middle of a boat fight, but imho, this is more of an effect of SOTG rather than healing, the rate at which it was increased from healing was ramped up, but since SOTG has reduced healing as it is, their healing reduction builds up slower due to their sotg health (if a normal player took 100 dmg in a short time while getting spam healed for the full time would give them 450s healing reduction, in the same situation a SOTG player would take 70 dmg, heal for 70 dmg and get 315s healing resistance), and imho this change negatively impacts everyone that wasn't SOTG more than it effects SOTG players (imho the accelerated healing reduction buildup should be a SOTG thing), and since you won't be able to get SOTG on this server, healing have been nerfed due to this interaction that isn't even possible on the new servers.

"

• Weapons/Armour tweaks to change the meta up, we will be leaving this undocumented."

Will the base ideas behind the weapons be the same (things like longswords are average damage super high parry, axes are high damage low parry, mauls are a middle ground etc), or are the weapon classes getting a complete rework?

 

If tomes aren't going to be a thing it'd be cool if you could get 1 use then gone version of the sorcery spells/temporary damage resistance/debuffs from the valrei/chests or something, if they're expendable it's a bit easier to balance than one shot then you have it permanently tomes