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Lockpicking on Freedom

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19 hours ago, Katrat said:

I get what you are saying about the look of abandonment and you are right in that regard but that did not stop a looter from robbing another friend of mine who was actively playing at the time. He filled a bsb with mortar and left it next to his undeeded dwelling for the night only to find the bsb emptied the next day. After this he did start putting locks on his stuff to protect it. However when it was robbed it was as I said right next to his dwelling that was obviously not abandoned! Lockpicking would most certainly make a difference in a case where they are willing to steal from active players! There are more accounts of this type of thing. The first player I mentioned with the mine dwelling once lost a bsb full of high ql cotton to a looter from a bsb that was next to his stables while he was logged for the night. Again it was not abandoned and the player was active. Which I believe was one of the reasons this player chose to build his home in a lockable mine in the first place.

 

...and the thievery makes people put locks on everything, which is why when people do abandon the game there is the issue locked stuff, which has prompted this OP to ask for lockpicking - i.e. a circumvention of the anti-theft mechanism that is actually needed.

 

Like the real world, we would all prefer to live in a world where people simply respect what isn't theirs and locks wouldn't be needed.  Like the real world, Wurm is not such a place, so we need locks - and we need them to work to protect our stuff.  The system must err on the side of caution here, opting to protect stuff after the need is gone rather than removing it when it is still needed.

 

The more we discuss this, the stronger my conviction that more lockpicking would be terrible.

Edited by TheTrickster
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+1

 

I like it. 3 months off-deed is a generous buffer to the most casual of players.

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I agree with a lot that has been said above.

 

We have to have protection for non deed players, but 3/4 months is ample time imo.

 

With regards bashing yes that's an option, but there's a spot close to me that has around 100+ abandoned items, took me hours and hours to remove 1 item, that's just crazy. 

 

But I have found a workaround for the unlocked planted items, building a shack over the item lets me load it and then I am moving the items to a old mine and stacking the items there to decay, the locked items is a different story, I cant move the items easy at all.

 

If the worry is people looting, just make the decay much much faster on items after 3/4 months of inactive so the items just decay away, that would work fine also.

Edited by Badvoc

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3 hours ago, griper said:

-1

Off-deed farms would be in danger.

 

 

How?

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45 minutes ago, Badvoc said:

How?

 

Picking the locks of the gate houses.

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17 hours ago, Alpengeist said:

 3 months off-deed is a generous buffer to the most casual of players.

 

10 hours ago, Badvoc said:

3/4 months is ample time imo.

 

I am not sure if those saying this have read and comprehended the objections at all.  It is not just about casual players, but includes players who need to be away for various reasons for various periods.  Who are we (or the developers) to be the gatekeepers on whether the reason is good enough or the period is short enough?

 

This can't be about tidying up, because there is plenty of scope for that.

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6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I am not sure if those saying this have read and comprehended the objections at all.  It is not just about casual players, but includes players who need to be away for various reasons for various periods.  Who are we (or the developers) to be the gatekeepers on whether the reason is good enough or the period is short enough?

 

Which is why we need an option to toggle player owned property, from houses to vehicles/gates to "vacation mode". Your stuff is protected for whatever duration you think you'll be offline, be it 3 months, scaling up to 6 or 12 months depending on your prem time and/or total playtime (as a loyalty reward).

 

Lot of competitive mmos have such a feature, especially those types of games where you constantly attack your neighbours. Your property can be set for lower decay (while being offline) and non-lockpickable.

 

If vacation mode expires, then items start taking decay. If 3 months pass AFTER vacation mode expires then locks should drop off your stuf IF not on a deed.

There's way too much protectionism for garbage in this game. Thousands of abandoned carts, boats, chests, empty fsb's, bsbs, etc. There needs to be a mechanic in place that says "Ok we gave you several options to secure your stuff. Anything beyond that is your responsibility. If you lose your precious serryl plate armour set, then don't keep it in a chest, keep it in your inventory or bank."

 

This isn't about thievery itself, it's about what extremism (game mechanics wise) we want to have in Wurm when it comes to people abandoning stuff that take years to decay.

It really isn't pretty when many neighbours quit and your own place is surrounded by garbage dumps.

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Depending on the server, it can take up to 5 years for abandoned trash to disappear. The current system doesn't work and it doesn't seem to be that dependent on quality: My 50QL caravel has taken 20+ damage in 12 months (on deed-), but the <20ql BSB secured (or trellis at 5QL etc), has taken less than 2 damage on my previous Xanadu deed's perimeter... I ended up moving to another server because of it.

I terraformed. moved trash and spent over 6 months fixing over 5 grids north-Deli, it still took over a year for vehicles like wagons to become pushable and 2 years later? Every single one of those vehicles and objects are still in their hidden underground trash heap.

 

Allowing people to lockpick away securings on PVE would go a long way to the small army of users trying to clean up the map. Every single area I've cleaned up has been moved into and repopulated. People don't want to settle in trash heaps, it's an eyesore and it's off putting to new players.

 

- It's really not difficult to collect the silver to get a deed setup (<1 week).

- It's really not that difficult to login to an MMORPG once every 90 days.

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2 hours ago, Drathania said:

People don't want to settle in trash heaps, it's an eyesore and it's off putting to new players.

This is the crux of my argument I've been stating for a long time now. 

 

What most quitting players don't realise is the amount of trash they leave behind to those that still play. Speaking as someone who owned a sort of newbie training deed, I had to implement a system where everything had to be managed by me due to how many players quit over the years. If I didnt implement that system, I'd have 100 carts, boats, transporters+ 1000 random furniture pieces on my deed or around it. And that was Epic. At least on Epic I have more perms. But on freedom? Oh boy.

 

I find it pointless to invest so much development time in making Wurm a "pretty, aesthetic and modern game" if you aren't also improving the game mechanics. People leave trash in Wurm. Trash that takes years to decay (If it's not repaired). If it's repair it never leaves the game.  On steam servers where people will repair everything, just how much trash will they gather? Will that leave a positive impression?

 

Can we really find a sane rational middle ground to get rid of the ugly things players leave when they quit?

 

1. Vacation mode.

2. Locks drop off if 3 months pass by after vacation mode expires (off deed) and the player still doesn't login.

3. Players at the end of the day are responsible for their items. That means also being responsible to what trash they leave behind. Yet the current game mechanics protects that trash more than actually allowing people to clear it. Really, what player in Wurm wants to spend 10 hours of their life cleaning trash? That's basically a recipe for making someone quit to actually start cleaning their own house in RL.

 

Edited by elentari
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On 6/28/2020 at 7:43 PM, griper said:

 

Picking the locks of the gate houses.

 

We aren't talking about picking locks of houses, it seems you didn't bother to read the thread. Or lockpicking anything that belongs to an active player. 

21 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

 

 

I am not sure if those saying this have read and comprehended the objections at all.  It is not just about casual players, but includes players who need to be away for various reasons for various periods.  Who are we (or the developers) to be the gatekeepers on whether the reason is good enough or the period is short enough?

 

This can't be about tidying up, because there is plenty of scope for that.

 

But there isn't and that's the problem, theres some work arounds, but if an item is locked and planted you just cant get rid of it easy, also why should an active player who is paying for the game have to put up with someone elses trash who isn't paying for the game just incase they may or may not come back, theres a great system for keeping items safe its called deeding.

 

But a middle ground is needed, as Its not my place to tell anyone how to play which is why I suggested a 3/4 month time scale before an item can be picked or increased decay, I really don't mind which it is, but it would be nice for some of the rubbish to go.

 

The needs of the current active player base should always come ahead of an inactive person also, this is why we have increased decay on buildings after 3 months, should be the same for all other items, I prefer in game solutions as its a sand box game which is why I suggested lockpicking as the skill to use, the player would still have to learn to lockpick to clean up. 

 

To use your phrase this cant be about protecting items from inactive players either, cast a lava tile on his locked chest and it goes anyway, build a shack on a planted item and you can move it, starve his horses and you can drag the cart, loads of ways to destroy a lot of an inactive persons stuff, houses decay after 3 months. So why not give the tools or improve the system so theres a lot less trash.

 

Also anything of real value you can hold on your character, so if you going to be away for 6 plus months, it makes sense to keep that on your person, but we both know people who are taking a break do that anyway.

 

 

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Somewhere in the mists of time, I suggested in some other thread regarding tidying up, that it would be good to be able to drop a notice on an item, which if not claimed within some specified time would be teleported to a holding yard of some sort.  You would still get a rubbish pile, but only one per server.  The owner/lockholder should receive a notification by email, and the item should be renamed with their character name for easier identification.  

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6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Somewhere in the mists of time, I suggested in some other thread regarding tidying up, that it would be good to be able to drop a notice on an item, which if not claimed within some specified time would be teleported to a holding yard of some sort.  You would still get a rubbish pile, but only one per server.  The owner/lockholder should receive a notification by email, and the item should be renamed with their character name for easier identification.  

 Interesting idea.

 

I was against lockpicking on expensive items like boats, as it isn't imo as much as a problem as GM's will move them but your idea could be used for everything, as if the person comes back, can claim the items.

 

Yes very interesting idea.

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14 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Somewhere in the mists of time, I suggested in some other thread regarding tidying up, that it would be good to be able to drop a notice on an item, which if not claimed within some specified time would be teleported to a holding yard of some sort.  You would still get a rubbish pile, but only one per server.  The owner/lockholder should receive a notification by email, and the item should be renamed with their character name for easier identification.  

This is a great idea!

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On 6/28/2020 at 7:43 PM, griper said:

 

Picking the locks of the gate houses.

Surely you'd just bash the fence which can be done at any time?

 

The only "farms" that would suffer is source huts.  0 sympathy there.

Edited by Etherdrifter

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The best would be if only the owner of the stuff laying around in world, could be reparerad by owner her/himself.

Then the stuff would decay and disapear if owner stay afk. Today it wont, since people do repear on it, and then it stay here forever. 

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Yeah but what about items that can be considered of public use?

 

What if I make a highway with 80 ql enchanted lamps on it? Should I be solely responsible for repairing it? What about guard towers? Colossi? Public wells?

 

The general issue sits with items that are abandoned but still have the "planted" and "locked" status by players.

 

What happens if I, who live on Deli, plant a random 90 ql bsb somewhere on indie, then don't visit indie for 2 years? That bsb will probably still be there annoying people.

 

The issue is a bit larger than lockpicking  itself. It's about defining items that are "abandoned" and having them marked either for : faster decay, make them easy to relocate to appropriate or destroy, or clean up the environment.

23 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Somewhere in the mists of time, I suggested in some other thread regarding tidying up, that it would be good to be able to drop a notice on an item, which if not claimed within some specified time would be teleported to a holding yard of some sort.  You would still get a rubbish pile, but only one per server.  The owner/lockholder should receive a notification by email, and the item should be renamed with their character name for easier identification.  

 

This would actually be a cool idea but I think would be hell to implement.

I mean can you really estimate the amount of items produced in a single year? I think we'd probably need a small server to act as a landfill :)) . Not joking. Would be interesting to have a landfill server filled with abandoned stuff.

 

Imagine trying to find your cart amongst 10 000 random carts. Easier to make a new one imho :)) 

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1 hour ago, elentari said:

Yeah but what about items that can be considered of public use?

 

What if I make a highway with 80 ql enchanted lamps on it? Should I be solely responsible for repairing it? What about guard towers? Colossi? Public wells?

 

The general issue sits with items that are abandoned but still have the "planted" and "locked" status by players.

 

What happens if I, who live on Deli, plant a random 90 ql bsb somewhere on indie, then don't visit indie for 2 years? That bsb will probably still be there annoying people.

 

The issue is a bit larger than lockpicking  itself. It's about defining items that are "abandoned" and having them marked either for : faster decay, make them easy to relocate to appropriate or destroy, or clean up the environment.

 

This would actually be a cool idea but I think would be hell to implement.

I mean can you really estimate the amount of items produced in a single year? I think we'd probably need a small server to act as a landfill :)) . Not joking. Would be interesting to have a landfill server filled with abandoned stuff.

 

Imagine trying to find your cart amongst 10 000 random carts. Easier to make a new one imho :)) 

That's decay "problem", not a reason to have lockpicking for items which aren't yours on freedom.

'derp landmarks' are a thing.. signs left after a public or private slaying.. remaining for years on roads to be seen by locals, these are just not that common to post about or bug gms to remove them as only other way is to spend ah hour/+ with high ql knife/axe and bash it.

 

Quote

Somewhere in the mists of time, I suggested in some other thread regarding tidying up, that it would be good to be able to drop a notice on an item, which if not claimed within some specified time would be teleported to a holding yard of some sort.  You would still get a rubbish pile, but only one per server.  The owner/lockholder should receive a notification by email, and the item should be renamed with their character name for easier identification.  

If I receive spam for a locked empty bsb I planted somewhere.. I'll seriously consider moving to WU or another game... rather not receive wurm spam.

Not a fan of looting, if somebody wants somebody other's toys - chaos and epic awaits, get in.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Finnn said:

If I receive spam for a locked empty bsb I planted somewhere.. I'll seriously consider moving to WU or another game... rather not receive wurm spam.

 

Fair enough.  Maybe a notice when you next log in. An absent player probably wouldn't care before then.

 

 

On 7/1/2020 at 9:24 PM, elentari said:

This would actually be a cool idea but I think would be hell to implement.

I mean can you really estimate the amount of items produced in a single year? I think we'd probably need a small server to act as a landfill :)) . Not joking. Would be interesting to have a landfill server filled with abandoned stuff.

 

Imagine trying to find your cart amongst 10 000 random carts. Easier to make a new one imho :)) 

 

It wouldn't be everything produced.  Basically, if it has sat unloved for a certain period you get the option to tag it for "collection", which starts a countdown to moving it.  A trash island would be interesting.

For a lot of stuff, yes I think a replacement would be made instead, but I think that is true already.  I know with branded animals there is a locate function that returns direction and distance.  I don't know if something similar for other items.  

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If you want this strictly for the "It will help us clean things up" statement. Allow secured bsb's & fsb's to be bashed until destroyed. 

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16 hours ago, zethreal said:

If you want this strictly for the "It will help us clean things up" statement. Allow secured bsb's & fsb's to be bashed until destroyed. 

 

Yes that would be great if it had "increased damage" after the player was away from the game say 3 months, it becomes a royal pain when theres many many items trying to bash them all and also a pain for new players who cant bash yet?  I would think leveling lockpick is faster than leveling Str.

 

But anyway to just remove some trash, will steam coming i am hoping we get a fair share of new players, so more land looking a little more natural would be good.

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On 7/3/2020 at 9:06 AM, Badvoc said:

 

Yes that would be great if it had "increased damage" after the player was away from the game say 3 months, it becomes a royal pain when theres many many items trying to bash them all and also a pain for new players who cant bash yet?  I would think leveling lockpick is faster than leveling Str.

 

But anyway to just remove some trash, will steam coming i am hoping we get a fair share of new players, so more land looking a little more natural would be good.

 

Letting people lockpick on freedom will immediately be exploited for profit. Literally nothing will be safe, which is part of the point of freedom. Also, lockpicking doesn't allow you to pick it up, only take from it so the bsb / fsb will still be there. 

 

You cannot move planted fsb's/ bsb's. If you unlock them, it only gives you access to the contents.

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On 7/7/2020 at 12:06 AM, zethreal said:

 

 

Letting people lockpick on freedom will immediately be exploited for profit. Literally nothing will be safe, which is part of the point of freedom. Also, lockpicking doesn't allow you to pick it up, only take from it so the bsb / fsb will still be there. 

 

You cannot move planted fsb's/ bsb's. If you unlock them, it only gives you access to the contents.

 

you can already move planted fsbs / bsbs on freedom if unlocked super easy, i do it all the time to clean up.

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On 6/28/2020 at 2:43 PM, griper said:

 

Picking the locks of the gate houses.

 

You can still bash the fences of off-deed farms. No reason to worry about a gate house.

 

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lockpicking would be cool as an exploration mechanic that probably could be linked to archeology, sometimes you can find a place where a deed was long ago maybe has only a door and a wall left at 90dmg and there are still chests there, you can archeology the place and see there has been a deed but now there isn't deed or owner arround, why let the containers decay out and the stuff inside too because contents might decay with the container too and if the owner gets back find most of it's things be gone anyway.  3months may be low but the main topic here would be protection for active players, what about in 3 months offline email warn the player and then if he doesn't log in 2 more months lock is open to pick only on chests, one month after on other small containers, then in 2 more months for bulk containers, never weaken vehicles or doors so players can still have them left, maybe also add a option to manage containers, so you can link them to other players that can renew the protection on the 3 months warning by claiming the containers for them (you previusly allowed them to do so)

if not other option for freedom lockpick is pve lockpicking, there are allready rift camps that spawn, well add to those rift chests that can be picked (with diferent dificulty locks) for some loots and maybe add diferent camps (like troll camps) with more pickable locks, there should be a reward for those that like to go around exploring wurm instead staying permanently on their deed grinding skills and stuff to sell

Edited by Elregis
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