Change 70 prayer goal to 70 meditation

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

What it says on the box; prayer is a pointless skill that offers nothing to most players.

 

Change the goal to 70 meditation and give priests something worthwhile to work towards.

[Skatyna 431]

high prayer gives tons of gems just by praying. Its not worthless just so hard to grind. I have to disagree with the suggestion. 70 meditation is a lot easier and most ppl have it, so making it easy to finish last priest journal is not an option

[Grumpled 138]

meditation has nothing to do with being a priest, so ... no

 

70 prayer is a pita, but it's doable. eventually

I imagine it's less of a frustrating goal for someone approaching the priest journal as a new priest, with the heads-up of keep praying as much as poss as the progress, as opposed to a fully established priest champing at the bit for that one last irritating goal for Benediction completion

 

[Wulfgar 1,103]

I would rather get 70 prayer than 70 meditation...

 

[kochinac 1,395]

ehm i have 70 prayer and don't have 70 meditation on priest, so i guess no thanks...

[Jotz 469]

I think that 70 prayer is far easier than 70 meditation. We've grinded to both, and prayer was far easier. Though that is just one opinion. I agree completely with @Grumpled, its much easier for a new priest that knows they have to start that up in the long run. When the journal was introudced we were at such a low prayer compared to having high channeling, but we managed to grind out prayer to 70 in a much quicker time than when we had to get to 70 on one of our characters.

Stick with it though, just like anything in Wurm, it'll take time. Everything is doable with patience and persistence.

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

70 prayer takes like, 120 hours or so of non-stop praying on epic(my logs say 14637 prays in total, using around 15 hours of sleep bonus), whereas 70 meditating takes like 4-2 months of meditating (4 if you're doing 5/day, 2 if you share acc and get 11 a day, these numbers assuming 90+coc and sleep bonus on every tick). They're both pretty long goals in their own way, and some will dislike one more than the other (someone who sits down and grinds for hours on end will probably find prayer easier than meditating, someone who only plays for an hour or two a day would probably find meditating easier than prayer).

 

Dunno why they haven't gone with "do x or y" for certain journal tasks instead of forcing people to do things they don't like.

[LionIX 354]

Meditation is already covered in crafter journal (with reach 11 on path)

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

Question; of those of you saying it was an easy grind, did you do the grind on freedom or epic?

 

On epic it might not be too bad (though, again, wouldn't that just be chaining someone to a server to skill a character they won't ever use again purely to gain something on another server)?

[Skatyna 431]

5 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Question; of those of you saying it was an easy grind, did you do the grind on freedom or epic?

 

Epic is way faster. 

 

6 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

wouldn't that just be chaining someone to a server to skill a character they won't ever use again purely to gain something on another server?

 

Then play on Epic servers if you think that would be too much of a loss. Or pray on freedom that might take twice longer, but either way doable and you get to keep all skills. Tons of different choices. 

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

5 hours ago, Skatyna said:

 

Epic is way faster. 

 

Then play on Epic servers if you think that would be too much of a loss.

 

That explains a lot

[Madnath 3,113]

10 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

Dunno why they haven't gone with "do x or y" for certain journal tasks instead of forcing people to do things they don't like.

it's easier to put in some decent goals and then halfass the other chunk of the journal

[Finnn 3,298]

But.. WHY....

 

What else do you do as a priest if you do not pray a lot? Isn't that part of what you're supposed to do... 

It's a small milestone to climb, and you get gems and other junk along walking that path.. being a priest you literally have to care about your faith bonus not being debuffed more than other, and having high faith, channeling, alignment, most of these come passively as you grind to be better.. prayer is part of the whole religion shebang but you want to step aside from priesting and chasing that 1 extra skill?

 

As reference .. new player will need more time to get 70 meditation than 70 prayer, you'll just make it harder for new priests, and at the same time put a nonpriest goal in the priest journal goals... makes no sense somehow...

So.. what the .. ?

 

Praying gives you free gems, money and favor, heals, what more do you want???

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

9 hours ago, Finnn said:

Praying gives you free gems, money and favor, heals, what more do you want???

Let's look at that a bit closer.

 

I earn more through 1 hour foraging than I do 20 hours praying.  So in terms of money, it isn't worth it.

 

The favour given is unreliable and random, I'd earn more long term by grinding rope making or cloth tailoring. 

 

Heals are great if you are out exploring; entirely worthless if you are chained to an altar.  Prayer grind is 100% chained to an altar.

 

The only upside is gems; though, these tend to be of low quality and are only really useful to high level priests grinding channeling.  I make more gems doing courier casts/enchants/genesis casts than I do from praying.

 

From the point of view of someone PLAYING a priest (not roleplaying), meditation offers far more benefits than prayer and is much much more worthwhile.  To name a few: PoL's refresh, enchant and double healing abilities are amazing, PoKs skill protection and skillgain bonus are also amazing.  At one time you could not PvP without insanity's SotG, and path of power's eruption is great for frying veins.  Let's not forget the ability to teleport home (thus giving you full mobility).

 

If you PLAY AS a priest, these extra abilities drastically improve your quality of life; especially compared to the forced-afk experience that is prayer.

[Shmeric 581]

I wouldn't swap prayer for meditation in that goal but I certainly would like to see some purpose for the prayer skill, other than just this one goal.

 

From the perspective of priest as main character, prayer skill adds nothing in value to the game.

Occasional gem and iron coin and other junk are not what you want to spend your wurming time on.

It's a skill you have to do, not want to do. It's not rewarding, it's not adding anything to the game experience, it's not needed for anything other than this goal.

 

A casual priest main character roleplay example, off the top of my head. 

Let's say they do 20 prayers a day mixed with the other daily chores and activities, such as farming and cooking and exploring etc, what priests can do; and then they do the occasional prayer at a tree or rock or altar, where ever.

With 120 hours total needed (some with sleep bonus), 20 prayers a day, that's 2 years of "normal" priest gameplay, assuming they play 365 days a year in Epic.

Add family, work, real life.. we're looking at no less than 3 years, in Epic.

If an answer to a (Freedom) problem is "do it in Epic", then it's just admitting the problem.

5 years in Freedom, more?

 

So I guess what I want to express here.. prayer skill 70, as a goal to achieve, makes no sense. As a skill, it has no other value than the goal itself.

For a priest main character.

 

 

[nygen 106]

I think it is extremely time consuming to do without using epic. After 60 prayer skill ticks become very few and far between, even with knowledge of what constitutes an optimal grind environment.

 

No goal should require arcane knowledge of wurms coding to ease out the last dying breath of an otherwise irrelevant skill.

[Finnn 3,298]

I'd love a random +5ql improvement when improving items, just to trigger randomly.. or even a 0.50 when I do imp over 90+, the +5 power per successful cast is A M A Z I N G improvement to your powers, and you want to make it easier... so anyone can get it?

Or are we talking about multiacounting with priests.. and once you get it on 1 alt.. you'd rather not work for it on another and want a shortcut?

 

@Shmeric nice joke there..

Spoiler

10 hours ago, Shmeric said:

I wouldn't swap prayer for meditation in that goal but I certainly would like to see some purpose for the prayer skill, other than just this one goal.

 

From the perspective of priest as main character, prayer skill adds nothing in value to the game.

Occasional gem and iron coin and other junk are not what you want to spend your wurming time on.

It's a skill you have to do, not want to do. It's not rewarding, it's not adding anything to the game experience, it's not needed for anything other than this goal.

 

A casual priest main character roleplay example, off the top of my head. 

Let's say they do 20 prayers a day mixed with the other daily chores and activities, such as farming and cooking and exploring etc, what priests can do; and then they do the occasional prayer at a tree or rock or altar, where ever.

With 120 hours total needed (some with sleep bonus), 20 prayers a day, that's 2 years of "normal" priest gameplay, assuming they play 365 days a year in Epic.

Add family, work, real life.. we're looking at no less than 3 years, in Epic.

If an answer to a (Freedom) problem is "do it in Epic", then it's just admitting the problem.

5 years in Freedom, more?

 

So I guess what I want to express here.. prayer skill 70, as a goal to achieve, makes no sense. As a skill, it has no other value than the goal itself.

For a priest main character.

 

20 prayers a day? what are they 30sec each.. so you play 10 minutes a day?

Do we see the problem here? (what is the average play time of a wurm player per day?)

 

doing it on epic is cheeZing it hard with the faster action timers and initial bigger gains

 

idk.. seems like asking for a lot when it already puts a huge barrier between these who have it and these who do not.

 

Could suggest a few things to spice things and make it 'useful' but if you're lazy to grind it now for obvious difference.. change with small qol, and actual NEED to grind it later - wont make you happier, believe me

[Shmeric 581]

8 hours ago, Finnn said:

20 prayers a day? what are they 30sec each.. so you play 10 minutes a day?

Do we see the problem here? (what is the average play time of a wurm player per day?)

I think you're missing my point.

Try to imagine, you are a priest and only a priest, no other characters, no other alts, just a priest - how many times would you pray if this journal goal didn't exist?

Would you log in and pray two hours, nothing else, then log out? If yes, why?

 

All I'm trying to say - a journal goal should have a reason behind it, not only "Journal says". Prayer has no other reason to be grinded, just this goal. Doesn't teach you anything, doesn't show new content, doesn't improve game experience.

Benediction does not come for 70 prayer, it comes for completing a journal tier. Otherwise, this journal tier could just be removed and benediction given when reaching 70 prayer.

 

I am not saying, remove that goal, or lower it. Nope, that would be unfair indeed. But to update the prayer skill itself, to give it a purpose in game - nobody would get hurt, right? But then it might actually justify that goal.

 

Anyone saying that catapulting a cow to death, what's the reason there? Well, you learn how to use catapults. Cow is just a little more fun to practice on than a stone wall, but you learn about a feature in the game.

What feature do we learn by grinding prayer for 120+ hours?

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

9 hours ago, Finnn said:

I'd love a random +5ql improvement when improving items, just to trigger randomly.. or even a 0.50 when I do imp over 90+, the +5 power per successful cast is A M A Z I N G improvement to your powers, and you want to make it easier... so anyone can get it?

if it takes like a minute of gathering to get a single imp, comes with a 1% chance to shatter the item every time you fail an imp, you randomly damage it for 1+ damage when imping, and you can spend hours imping with no actual change to ql like how you can sit there casting one thing and not improve the cast, sounds good 😍 

[heiro 85]

Remove being able to finnish journal on epic then, cause its stupid.