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TheTrickster

Why are large crates so hard to make?

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I am sure there is a good reason for this, but why do large creates need 60 carpentry to make?

 

Small crates can be made at 10, and vehicles to take large crates can be well before reaching 60.  It just baffles me a bit.  It's just a crate, after all.

 

 

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Me too. I never understood it.

Edited by Katrat

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4 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I am sure there is a good reason for this, but why do large creates need 60 carpentry to make?

 

Small crates can be made at 10, and vehicles to take large crates can be well before reaching 60.  It just baffles me a bit.  It's just a crate, after all.

They are not hard to make, your skill must be low or you're using low ql materials and you fail a lot.

It's just 1 of these items with certain difficulty, it does get better when you get better, pretty much like any other skill and item in the game.

If it's now tough, you have 'room' to improve.

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I would suggest that all examples like this are put in to create 'landmark' events for the player so that they can see the opportunity getting closer to be able to do 'a' or 'b'' This hopefully creates a challenge and more motivation to work at whatever skill is involved.

 

When you get there, then you should get the feeling of, 'yes done it' :)

 

I obviously does not work like that every time for all players but I reckon challenge is a major reason. 

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

They are not hard to make, your skill must be low or you're using low ql materials and you fail a lot.

It's just 1 of these items with certain difficulty, it does get better when you get better, pretty much like any other skill and item in the game.

If it's now tough, you have 'room' to improve.

 

By "hard to make" I mean "high skill required".  I haven't failed at any because my carpentry is 40 so I can't attempt any.  I am not complaining about that at all; it's just a standard part of most games to gain access and abilities with skill or level progression.

 

I am just trying to understand this particular one, why a basic no-frills box of a certain size can be made at 10 but a bigger version of the same thing needs 60.  It's a big jump and a box is basic.  It just seems, I don't know, disproportionate?

 

Yes, my skill is low, for a number of reasons, one of which is my propensity to just go exploring, which doesn't seem to enhance any skills.  I don't play the game to advance skills so much as vice versa.  This was never meant to be a complaint about "I can't do ...?"  I am just trying to understand the why of it.  

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6 hours ago, Spolmit said:

I would suggest that all examples like this are put in to create 'landmark' events for the player so that they can see the opportunity getting closer to be able to do 'a' or 'b'' This hopefully creates a challenge and more motivation to work at whatever skill is involved.

 

When you get there, then you should get the feeling of, 'yes done it' :)

 

I obviously does not work like that every time for all players but I reckon challenge is a major reason. 

Wurm kind of.. have these.. skill level 50/70/90.. lg.crates take 60 skill if I remember right.. so put these on 70 carp title. 

Get better skill, use higher ql materials.. 

I do not bother making crates with planks below 50 ql(worst case.. usually using 60-70ql/+).. it's masochism to use <50(it's absolutely normal and so on.. but here and there your action FAILS, action timer is slower, I ****** hate that, waiting on something just to see it wasted your time)

 

Get better skill - you'll get better results.

 

I do not take lg.crates as 'wogic' it's just big buoy/grill box, you need to get 'smarter' to be able to wrap your mind around the making of a more complex item and have a progression later on...(small -> lg.crate)

There's absolutely no difference.. besides the management of 1:2 containers.. 2x small crates can hold what 1 lg.crate can take, and as in size/volume.. they take equal amount 2:1.

 

"We could continue" asking why 80fine carpentry is a requirement for trebuchets.. besides a decoration or way to throw cheese at your neighbor, these are useless on freedom for example ( https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Trebuchet ) 

 

Many items and skills have some sort of skill requirement to even start the item or continue working on it.. just like for spells you need certain faith to be able to cast them, additionally you have some rng and difficulty to spice things and make you scream and ask in your head.. 'Rolf.. WHYYYY!?!?', it's just part of the game :)

 

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You can use 100ql materials and still have 0% on a large crate at 59 carpentry because it's hard capped to become available at 60 carpentry no matter what.

 

Materials have nothing to do with it, and he isn't complaining about that.

 

He is saying that you should be able to at least attempt to create it below 60

Edited by atazs
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6 hours ago, Finnn said:

you need to get 'smarter' to be able to wrap your mind around the making of a more complex item and have a progression later on

 

This is what I am trying to understand - how is a large crate more complex than a small crate?  It isn't, to my thinking; it is just 1.26 times the scale and thus needs more material.  If if IS more complex, how is a bigger box 6 times more complex than a smaller box?  Wogic is what is seems to be, and "it's just part of the game" is not an explanation.  

 

The trebuchet example is indeed another that seems to be wogic.  Why fine carpentry at all?  I have built a trebuchet (IRL, not in Wurm) and there is nothing fine about it.

 

I think you have missed my point.  I am not advocating for easier stuff, or complaining about harder stuff, or complaining about the overarching mechanic.  Real world logic does not explain why the packing material is deemed to need so much more expertise to make than the objects packed in it.  I presume that there is some actual reason for it beyond a random pick from a developer and I am trying to uncover that reason.  So far the responses positing explanations are convincing me even experienced and long-time players don't know what it is, either.

 

2 hours ago, atazs said:

He is saying that you should be able to at least attempt to create it below 60

 

Yes, although "should" is possibly even too strong a term.  More like "logically, I would have expected".

 

I don't know how else to stress that I am not saying that this is a problem.  I am only saying I don't understand it, and my make up is such that I don't like knowing that I don't know so I am asking.

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15 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I don't know how else to stress that I am not saying that this is a problem.  I am only saying I don't understand it, and my make up is such that I don't like knowing that I don't know so I am asking.

 

I have this problem, too, Trickster - you're not alone!

I first encountered this brain-burning frustration over a question of flowerboxes. They are built on the tile border, similar to walls and fences... but unlike walls and fences, flowerboxes can only be build on the ground/terrain tiles. They cannot be built along the borders of any tile that is part of a building, and they cannot be built on the upper floors of a multi-story building. Like a balcony. Or a front porch. 

Why? I asked, Why? Walls and fences are infinitely more complex - as they include modification to movement and line of sight, etc. But flowerboxes are just decoration. I know how to make them, I know that they must be built on the ground tiles only... I just don't understand it. 

I was told "wogic" and I was told "because that's simply how the devs made it" - very unsatisfying answers. But, as far as I can tell, those are the only answers you or I are ever going to get for these moments. Sometimes there is no deeper meaning or hidden motivation - sometimes it's just that a dev made it that way, and then stopped there and hasn't been back around to update or expand. 

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And you should look at what's needed for crafting a 'large planter'.

They're required for growing mushrooms underground.

 

70 carpentry skill is need for creation. (That 'needed' typo is in the wurmpedia, I just cut&pasted.)

 

Edited by Tristanc

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15 minutes ago, Tristanc said:

And you should look at what's needed for crafting a 'large planter'.

They're required for growing mushrooms underground.

 

70 carpentry skill is need for creation. (That 'needed' typo is in the wurmpedia, I just cut&pasted.)

 

Fixed the typo you found

Also i always chalked it up to progression of the game instead of it being a difficulty or knowledge thing  sure it could be unlocked earlier but then small crates will have even less of a presence and be used even less often so it just makes sense to have them "later" on in the game as a nice thing between the 2 title unlocks.

I just wish we could have a huge crate(as silly as that sounds) of 600 capacity that can fit 10 in a wagon which is unlocked at 95 carp but doubt that will ever be a thing.

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On 6/12/2020 at 2:19 AM, wipeout said:

sure it could be unlocked earlier but then small crates will have even less of a presence and be used even less often

 

Okay, now here is a reason.  Balance.  Keeping the value and use of small crates from taking a dive.  I don't care to think whether it is a good reason, so long as it is A reason rather than mere  caprice.

 

 

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