Nelsy

High slope dirt and sand must "decay"

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World of Wurm have alot of realy high slope tiles whiсh is digged buy playes which doesnt play currently for years and never will play again, but in same time these unreal high slope tiles copletely ruins view of the game for new players, it looks realy waird, i remember my first expirience with that. That high slope tiles must be flated to near tiles by the time if they not in the border of active settlement. Thus, huge cliffs will be leveled into a small hill overgrown with vegetation and it will not look so ugly, everything in this world is accected by the time and the ground under the influence of rains over time can not physically remain in this condition, even if it is strengthened threes, roads. I played this game back in 2013, and many high slope tiles still here in 2020 and ruins the picture of the beautiful nature of Wurm - this is not right, there is no explanation for why this should be like this!

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Posted (edited)

-1 The very concept of Wurm is that the world is shaped by players, not by algorithms. The downside is that even misdeeds of players may shape the world of Wurm, which is no RL simulation, though.

 

Mechanisms for erosion have been suggested again and again but still remain unconvincing. If the sight does not please, take a shovel, hatchet, and pickaxe, seeds, and sprouts, and change it.

Edited by Ekcin
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1 hour ago, Nelsy said:

World of Wurm have alot of realy high slope tiles whiсh is digged buy playes which doesnt play currently for years and never will play again, but in same time these unreal high slope tiles copletely ruins view of the game for new players, it looks realy waird, i remember my first expirience with that. That high slope tiles must be flated to near tiles by the time if they not in the border of active settlement. Thus, huge cliffs will be leveled into a small hill overgrown with vegetation and it will not look so ugly, everything in this world is accected by the time and the ground under the influence of rains over time can not physically remain in this condition, even if it is strengthened threes, roads. I played this game back in 2013, and many high slope tiles still here in 2020 and ruins the picture of the beautiful nature of Wurm - this is not right, there is no explanation for why this should be like this!

I disagree. The abandoned slopes give wurm both character and a history

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The sun rises and sets.  Winter comes and goes.  Rain happens.  Wind happens.  All of these are factors that add to erosion and should happen in Wurm too.  I think Devs would have added it if they could figure out how to do so, without accidentally ruining someone's project.  The old saying "deed it or lose it" really should apply here.  That plus time.  Given enough time of inactivity in an area and not being on a deed, why not let it erode to some reasonable slope threshold? We do have erosion of buildings and packed dirt roads, so it isn't like the concept of erasing past activity doesn't already exist.

 

+1 for any ideas that return Wurm servers to their original beauty.

 

As for the idea of "if you don't like it, fix it yourself", I've tried that many times.  Done landscape cleanup to restore the beauty and a year later, that area is just trashed with more abandoned projects.

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Look, asking the devs to do something to a player-made modification of the world isn't right. Like Ekcin said, if you don't like it, change it. I have and am continuing to do so on pretty large scale around my deeds and the Summerholt area. It's why I have 96 in digging, it wasn't from the deeds themselves it was from returning the surrounding countryside back to a more natural look. Just one example is from my first year here, taking what is now known as Lake Woebegone just north of Summerholt from a dead end parking lot with the lake cut in two by more parking lot - this guy was the parking lot king - and turning it into a picturesque, nice little spot with several deeds. I removed over 5,000 tiles of paving, major terraforming, dredged the lake, reshaped the coastline, added a canal for access from Summerholt Lake, highway, etc.

 

If I can do this, surely you can flatten out some cliffs. Yeah, you might have to go dig some dirt to add to the bottom of cliffs that you can't touch because your skill is too low, so go do it. it's good for your body strength :) and in the end you won't wince every time you see the cliff.

 

https://imgur.com/XYocrbo

 

https://imgur.com/wCiHFoT

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2 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

As for the idea of "if you don't like it, fix it yourself", I've tried that many times.  Done landscape cleanup to restore the beauty and a year later, that area is just trashed with more abandoned projects.

you can put up anti-deed shacks to prevent people coming in and deeding an area that you want to keep looking nice, it's what i do. brick and mortar lasts a long time if you're active.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

The sun rises and sets.  Winter comes and goes.  Rain happens.  Wind happens.  All of these are factors that add to erosion and should happen in Wurm too.  I think Devs would have added it if they could figure out how to do so, without accidentally ruining someone's project.  The old saying "deed it or lose it" really should apply here.  That plus time.  Given enough time of inactivity in an area and not being on a deed, why not let it erode to some reasonable slope threshold? We do have erosion of buildings and packed dirt roads, so it isn't like the concept of erasing past activity doesn't already exist.

 

+1 for any ideas that return Wurm servers to their original beauty.

 

As for the idea of "if you don't like it, fix it yourself", I've tried that many times.  Done landscape cleanup to restore the beauty and a year later, that area is just trashed with more abandoned projects.

 

Yes.  This.

 

There was another suggestion I thought quite recently about this.  Erosion-type softening over time would not wipe out the history of the landscape, but would add a realism, and a more pleasant aesthetic.

Edited by TheTrickster
t
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

you can put up anti-deed shacks to prevent people coming in and deeding an area that you want to keep looking nice, it's what i do. brick and mortar lasts a long time if you're active.

 

I think, in the words of the wise green one, putting up shacks to preserve the view is "the opposite of helping".

 

It would discourage large areas being cubified under a deed, but to do it you have to cubify the land anyway.

Edited by TheTrickster
reduce snark
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6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I think, in the words of the wise green one, putting up shacks to preserve the view is "the opposite of helping".

It would discourage large areas being cubified under a deed, but to do it you have to cubify the land anyway.

 

A building, tastefully designed, may well fit into the landscape. there is no need that it always be but a cubicle. It may serve useful purposes, such as a shelter from attacking mobs for explorers and travellers, as well as a landmark (it may contain coord info in name in addition), be locked (freedom access drop pickup) against trolls, contain a bed, even a mailbox. Buildings can be situated under ground as well. 

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Posted (edited)

-1. Suggestions like this are a cancer that goes against the very nature of this sort of game.

Edited by Delacroix
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Delacroix said:

-1. Suggestions like this are a cancer that goes against the very nature of this sort of game.

 

Condescending dismissals like this are not utile.  The game is different things to different people but there seems to be an inability to conceive that the nature of the game is not perceived by all identically.

 

 A quick look at the screenshots thread is informative.  There are many images of built environment and of pristine vista but I could not see one of an empty but heavily terraformed landscape.  Likewise the promotional videos and images include untouched landscape and attractive structures, but the marketers aren't selling the abandoned villages and deeds.

 

Everything else built decays and disappears off-deed, but the persistence of squared-off land is an inconsistency.  

Edited by TheTrickster
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For areas that have not had anyone show for months , some sort of revert be interesting .

I would like to see a option also to stand on a tile and get a raise action , that lets you raise the tile you are on by having dirt on you raise it to your max skill lvl ..

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On 6/5/2020 at 8:24 PM, DaletheGood said:

Look, asking the devs to do something to a player-made modification of the world isn't right. Like Ekcin said, if you don't like it, change it. I have and am continuing to do so on pretty large scale around my deeds and the Summerholt area. It's why I have 96 in digging, it wasn't from the deeds themselves it was from returning the surrounding countryside back to a more natural look.

 

Enormous respect to you for what you accomplished but you must admit that not everyone has the time to invest, least of all new players just looking for a place to settle while deciding whether this is the right game for them.

 

If the landscape were to gradually restore itself over time you might never have been aware of just how transformed the area had been at all, and I think that would've allowed for a better experience while traversing. Not to say you didn't enjoy the digging.

 

I think terraforming an untouched area gives players a sense that anything is possible as opposed to a previously shaped area where players might feel obligated to keep X, Y and Z, and never really feel accomplished because they didn't work for it.

 

Maybe not everyone having time to invest is a moot point though, since people can just deed on an already flat area, but I don't think that's something we should want players to do. It makes the land less sentimental, and isn't gratifying.

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Wurm is aware how long a tile was not stepped on. Bridges, roads decay based on that information.

Abandoned flattened tiles which has a steep edge next to them could easily be targets of erosion (ie. auto-levelling) after a period of weeks not touched and off-deed.

 

My opinion that it would also give to the immersion. Erosion happens.

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Personally, I've done more terraforming off deed than on, between making highways or cleaning up someone's bad, uncompleted project etc. And really, if you want the land that you're passing thru to look lovely, then put some time and effort into it. Because exactly how are you proposing that they change the code to accommodate this? And what projects that they're currently working on or are scheduled to be worked on would you suggest they abandon to make this change?

 

I know of many highways and roads that skirt a mountain with steep slopes on both sides, where someone took the time to carve into the face of said mountain. This proposal would then erode that player's hard work and the road would eventually be unusable just because it's not a frequently traveled route. That makes no sense. And if you're suggesting that they write code that will take into account all the factors at play before starting the erosion process, then you need to add to the projects and work that will be set aside to accomplish that. I for one would be pissed to come back to a highway I'd built to find it'd eroded away, even if it wasn't catseyed, it was a viable, useable road even if it had steep dropoffs on either side.

 

Project this proposal out several years, and you'd have Dragon Fang reduced to a molehill, Xanadu looking like high plains because all the mountains had eroded, and no one would be able to get their "scale a mountain" journal entry because, oh crap they all eroded away. Pure silliness.

 

If you're afraid of hard work, might I suggest that this game may not suit you.

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Posted (edited)

I meant flat dirt. Not rock. Also highways are protected already. Regarding rock I'm very sad surface mining got too easy lately without any means to repair damage it can do. You cannot rebuild the mountain peaks with the hard cap of 40 slope of concrete.

BTW I've repaired a lot of abandoned ugliness on many servers myself - so I'm not feeling avoiding work.

Edited by Jaz

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

Personally, I've done more terraforming off deed than on, between making highways or cleaning up someone's bad, uncompleted project etc. And really, if you want the land that you're passing thru to look lovely, then put some time and effort into it. Because exactly how are you proposing that they change the code to accommodate this? And what projects that they're currently working on or are scheduled to be worked on would you suggest they abandon to make this change?

 

I know of many highways and roads that skirt a mountain with steep slopes on both sides, where someone took the time to carve into the face of said mountain. This proposal would then erode that player's hard work and the road would eventually be unusable just because it's not a frequently traveled route. That makes no sense. And if you're suggesting that they write code that will take into account all the factors at play before starting the erosion process, then you need to add to the projects and work that will be set aside to accomplish that. I for one would be pissed to come back to a highway I'd built to find it'd eroded away, even if it wasn't catseyed, it was a viable, useable road even if it had steep dropoffs on either side.

 

Project this proposal out several years, and you'd have Dragon Fang reduced to a molehill, Xanadu looking like high plains because all the mountains had eroded, and no one would be able to get their "scale a mountain" journal entry because, oh crap they all eroded away. Pure silliness.

 

If you're afraid of hard work, might I suggest that this game may not suit you.

 

If you look at the way this is being proposed, rock would not change at all (or so minimally in any realistic time scale that it isn't worth implementing for rock tiles).  This would be for open tiles that are soft terrain, notice the "dirt and sand" in the title.  It would be the last element of/on a tile to "decay" so under roads, highways etc it just wouldn't, and neither it would if it were rock or clay.  Thus your "several years" reductio ad absurdum would not occur at all.  

 

The mechanism would not need to be complex, just very similar to decay but with slope instead of quality and the rate a direct proportion instead of an inverse.

 

Actually, most of those supporting this do not seem to be afraid of hard work, but rather want to do their own hard work.  Also, for those who are relatively new, the game won't LET them work on steep slopes.  It is an issue of an imposed limitation from the game, not any kind of laziness such as has been implied.

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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Posted (edited)

I had some RL friends play the game with me and they were put off by the amount of dirt walling that happened on Serenity. Dirt at a such extreme slope looks very unnatural. 

 

I believe those dirt walls and even terraces should slide back to like 40 dirts slope, like you get when trying to drop dirt.

Maybe give the players the ability to reinforce dirt walls or terraces somehow:

  • For a little 40-80 slope terrace they can use rock shards and it would look like those low stone walls.
  • For 80-140 they must use bricks.
  • For beyond 140 they should use colossus bricks. The dirtwalls are somewhere in this category. What players tried to achieve on Serenity was castle walls and this would offer them just that.

Those reinforcements would decay as normal house walls or fences or whatever. When they have decayed the dirt will flow out of those sections. Of course if deeded they would never decay as long as the upkeep is met.

 

So basically dirtwalls are an absurdity and they should be removed from the game. However it should be possible to have terraces if the player reinforces them. 

Edited by Idlamn
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8 hours ago, Idlamn said:

I had some RL friends play the game with me and they were put off by the amount of dirt walling that happened on Serenity. Dirt at a such extreme slope looks very unnatural. 

 

I believe those dirt walls and even terraces should slide back to like 40 dirts slope, like you get when trying to drop dirt.

Maybe give the players the ability to reinforce dirt walls or terraces somehow:

  • For a little 40-80 slope terrace they can use rock shards and it would look like those low stone walls.
  • For 80-140 they must use bricks.
  • For beyond 140 they should use colossus bricks. The dirtwalls are somewhere in this category. What players tried to achieve on Serenity was castle walls and this would offer them just that.

Those reinforcements would decay as normal house walls or fences or whatever. When they have decayed the dirt will flow out of those sections. Of course if deeded they would never decay as long as the upkeep is met.

 

So basically dirtwalls are an absurdity and they should be removed from the game. However it should be possible to have terraces if the player reinforces them. 

Dirtwalls are a PvP thing so of course they are going to be everywhere in large amounts on a pvp server

 

They don't really exist on non pvp servers except maybe inde due to how difficult the terrain is.

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If you want the terrain to look natural, fix it yourselves. Otherwise, don't try to ruin other people's hard work that could have potentially taken them dozens of hours.

 

-1

 

Spoiler

I'd be interested to know how many of you would be whining if this were implemented and of the unnatural landbridges and islands were to disappear.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2020 at 8:00 PM, Ekcin said:

concept of Wurm is that the world is shaped by players, not by algorithms

 

On 6/5/2020 at 10:46 PM, Wurmhole said:

+1 for any ideas that return Wurm servers to their original beauty.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 12:24 AM, DaletheGood said:

asking the devs to do something to a player-made modification of the world isn't right

 

On 6/6/2020 at 10:50 PM, Delacroix said:

Suggestions like this are a cancer that goes against the very nature of this sort of game.

 

On 6/8/2020 at 2:55 AM, DaletheGood said:

If you're afraid of hard work, might I suggest that this game may not suit you.

 

4 hours ago, Agatino said:

If you want the terrain to look natural, fix it yourselves

 

On 6/7/2020 at 11:39 PM, Jaz said:

My opinion that it would also give to the immersion. Erosion happens.

 

I'm not afraid of hard work, and thats ok if you love fixing the world to make it look better, im happy to do so as well! Everything decay in this world, but not the dirt walls, thats wrong! I still see walls that was built and abandoned more that 7 years ago! No one care about these walls, thay just still there and make this world looks weird.

Here no any reson to save such things for years, it should decay completely, may be to something differend from defaults terrain. Erosion of the terrain will take alot of time, so, many people who cares about theirs walls now, will left the game before erosion happend and never they think about their dirt walls again, but in original way other new people should look at this wairdness for ever, or level theirs skill to 80+ just for fix it? If they don't want wait erosion, they will level and fix it by self, and this is great! But if no one care about this for years, then such unrealffs things as high dirt slope will be disrupting beautyness and naturalness of this world and grow with never stop, thats worng!

That why everything decay in this game, for make it clean for new players, from things abandoned by players and such terrain are not exclusion, so terrain erosion its not agains the game, its about the game! And i'd also like to have some story about the land! Erosion doesn't mean all turn back to defaults! Even more, i really hope there will be some high quality buildings will left with about 99% of damage for longer time, but not for ever, so it does't hard to clean and funny to exlore for NEW players and expirienced as well, even for someone who left that place before, because he can repair it or remove it and build from scratch!

I have digging 85 (97 effective), mining 82 (96 effective), so i did alot in this game which i can lose as you if we implement this. All my bouildings decaed by past 7 years, but not the terrain or reinforced parts of the mine. I also have something to lose if we talking about terrain, but i come with reasonable choice, there was no any reason to save my work that long. That was funny to find after years, but im ready to lose it, for make this game better. If i realy care about my dirt slopes, i won't left them careless and won't let them being affected by erosion, if some feel usefull with my tunnes he will sustain it rainforsed, but it should't stay careles for ever.

Even i lose them, terraformed parts of the land or mine caves, i build them again, because i don't afraid of hard work and in same time really care about future of this game, and new players, who shouldn't see such things: "you can't mine this way because some one 7 years ago reinforsed that cavewall and most of tiles around aswell, but sadly it was abandoned and collapse all entrances, so you must place deed in the mine or get incredibly high skills to remove it by spells, but you still can't mine it out if the tunell is far above of you, so after you remove reinforcement you must wait for years and hope on callapse happens with that tunnels..."   OR    "you can't go there or even climb, because there is a Dirt Wall with unreal ridiculous high slope wich was built by realy hard work alot of years ago and saved just for story, it was used just for PVP btw, and abandoned for ever and no one care about this more than your age in real, so don't be picky you piggy newbie, which don't care about legacy Walls, choose over way and level up your digging skill to 90 to fix it!" Guys, realy? xD

If you ask what growing like cancer in this game, i tell these terrain, only one thing in this game unaffacted by time and still stupidly growing by waird ways. As I told, I seen some of the abandoned walls in 2013 as new player, and it was realy sad to have that experience with, and now exactly these walls still here and abandoned, no one fixed it, and more, here alot of new pvp walls which doesn't really protect from experienced raiders, it protect you only from new playes being even see your place because they turn around and go away, even dont touch your unbreakable walls for low skill. So that only stupid things which you just want to see in this game and even can't imagene that you loose it, because there is only reason to save it is your "hard work" in past. Here in this huge mistake like high slopes forever, it's nothing about natural, and even more, it against of the rusles of the game, because everything* decay in this game by expected reasons from the begining of devs this game which you don't see or don't want accept.

Edited by Nelsy

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sorry for my english i tried my best

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