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Morrowen

Wurm Unlimited Surprise

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1 hour ago, Zera said:

So what makes the game unfinished then?
What is this game missing that it was said it was going to have?

Modding API.

 

You know, to help develop mods? Mods that were supposed to be the biggest selling point of this game? 

 

I mean i guess you still can. Just not anything big, only primitive mods. And only if you have a bunch of programming degrees and enjoy the pain and suffering. 

Edited by atazs

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3 hours ago, atazs said:

Modding API.

 

You know, to help develop mods? Mods that were supposed to be the biggest selling point of this game? 

 

I mean i guess you still can. Just not anything big, only primitive mods. And only if you have a bunch of programming degrees and enjoy the pain and suffering. 

You mean that thing that came out in the last Beta when they announced they weren't doing anymore feature updates?
The thing that isn't yet still "Officially Released" because they're still doing one last big bug-fix for WU?
That thing that they stated they were adding, that is in fact there and waiting for the final touches. Albeit not developed by the Dev Team, but is still infact a provided Mod-API for the game that is in-fact coded into the game (even if it's just the Beta branch for now).

This post here: https://steamcommunity.com/games/366220/announcements/detail/3333161273934595722
Where they mentioned it AND that WU would no longer get feature updates by the team?

 

Quote

Todays update is a little bit of a bittersweet one, marking the end of official content support for Wurm Unlimited.


Then there's this statement here that says "We're not abandoning you":
 

Quote

We'll continue to work with modders and address any major issues raised and of course, Wurm Unlimited is still on the store and we will still be supporting those with questions, technical issues and the like.


But you know, apparently the rest of us forget that "No new Features" means a game has been abandoned and has now become a scam. Never-mind that Questions, Bug-Fixes, Technical Issue support are still a thing...
Nothing New means the Game is dead, incomplete, buggy as hell or not even playable and the Devs quit/abandoned it.

Edited by Zera

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12 hours ago, Finnn said:

company still supports fixes to it, but does not offer any kind of new features.

 

 

They might "support fixes" but they don't actually put them in. They just ... support them getting fixed. By someone else, some day. Maybe. 

 

Example is one of my pet peeves, when they accidentally slipped into WO some pvp centric code that disallowed anyone with less than 20FS from repairing a guard tower -- which actually means even building a guard tower is now impossible for new players because you cannot imp it high enough to even get ONE guard without first needing to repair occasional imps gone astray. Went into WO apparently when they were fiddling with code dealing with chaining of guard towers, and immediately added it as well to WU. WO players complained, Code Club said "Oops that was a mistake!" and took it right back out again ...  from WO.   For WU, they said it would be fixed "in the next update" which was ... well, it was sometime over a year ago. I'll frankly be astonished if that fix -- or any other -- ever actually goes in. 

 

Same deal with the Sandstone "50 hits" bug, which goes back even longer -- when did Sandstone get added to the game? Two years ago, four years ago? Fixed in WO but not WU -- 'support fixes' is a nice and easy phrase to toss out there as it has no meaning. Yes, Coldie made a wonderful mod for the guard tower (mostly because I would not stop whining about it), but a great many servers are based on being "classic servers" with "no mods!", while others require the server admin to both know about and care about the issue. While large professionally run servers like Otherlands and Sklotopolis can and do patch it with no problem, small one person admins without rather technically savvy staff, or "average" players launching a singleplayer world, are simply out of luck. So I am not really sure what they mean by saying they will "support fixes" because those fixes sure as hell don't  go in. They just -- i dunno, think fixing it would be a fine thing for someone to someday do? They support fixes!  I guess only someone like Sklo or BDew can tell us exactly how many other Wurm bugs were never "fixed", except by silent private updates by server admins. 

 

I frankly DO understand them "breaking their word" to WU players about keeping WO & WU equally updated from when Rolf first announced the game and vowed the two branches would be updated together. Or at least I was never surprised when they later pretended it never happened. Yeah, they do not really have a lot of resources and they want to keep the Big Bang content for premium subscription players. That's very ... understandableBut that does not mean I will ever forget that they WILL blithely make a promise when they want your money,  and then conveniently break that promise later. In other words, I no longer believe or trust what the dev team says.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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42 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

 

They might "support fixes" but they don't actually put them in. They just ... support them getting fixed. By someone else, some day. Maybe. 

 

Example is one of my pet peeves, when they accidentally slipped into WO some pvp centric code that disallowed anyone with less than 20FS from repairing a guard tower -- which actually means even building a guard tower is now impossible for new players because you cannot imp it without first needing to repair occasional imps gone astray. Went into WO apparently when they were fiddling with code dealing with chaining of guard towers, and immediately added it as well to WU. WO players complained, Code Club said "Oops that was a mistake!" and took it right back out again ...  from WO.   For WU, they said it would be fixed "in the next update" which was ... well, it was sometime over a year ago. I'll frankly be astonished if that fix -- or any other -- ever actually goes in. 

 

Same deal with the Sandstone "50 hits" bug, which goes back even longer -- when did Sandstone get added to the game? Two years ago, four years ago? Fixed in WO but not WU -- 'support fixes' is a nice and easy phrase to toss out there as it has no meaning. Yes, Coldie made a wonderful mod for the guard tower (mostly because I would not stop whining about it), but a great many servers are based on being "classic servers" with "no mods!", while others require the server admin to both know about and care about the issue. While large professionally run servers like Otherlands and Sklotopolis can and do patch it with no problem, small one person admins without rather technically savvy staff, or "average" players launching a singleplayer world, are simply out of luck. So I am not really sure what they mean by saying they will "support fixes" because those fixes sure as hell don't  go in. They just -- i dunno, think fixing it would be a fine thing for someone to someday do? They support fixes!

 

I frankly DO understand them "breaking their word" to WU players about keeping WO & WU equally updated from when Rolf first announced the game and vowed the two branches would be updated together. Or at least I was never surprised when they later pretended it never happened. Yeah, they do not really have a lot of resources and they want to keep the Big Bang content for premium subscription players. That's very ... understandableBut that does not mean I will ever forget that they WILL blithely make a promise when they want your money,  and then conveniently break that promise later. In other words, I no longer believe or trust what the dev team says.

 

 

 

 

professionally run servers?

who have made a company and runs such as profession?

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Run it in a professional manner.  It is grammatically correct. 

 

When you conduct yourself in a professional manner, it does not always mean someone is giving you money to act that way. 

 

Sometimes volunteer agencies act a lot more professional than profitmaking ones. 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Lets not forget the fact that at one point new drivers broke the game

Solution? Just roll back the drivers until we get a fix

A fix that took them months! During which you either rolled back your drivers or couldnt play.

 

And what about features not even in the game (Rifts) yet the journal requires you to do said features and without them, you cannot complete it and cannot get your cloak and rewards that are otherwise implemented, but impossible to get. It is therefore unfinished, buggy.

 

It might be fixed in the upcoming last patch but its way ovedue, that patch should have been out last year. 

Edited by nitram20

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That was 

22 hours ago, Zera said:

I'm sorry you misunderstood what was said to mean "we will not stop adding new features to WU so long as WO is getting updates". I however cannot find any words that say anything like that, anywhere. Not on Steam, not on these forums, no where.

So until you can find actual words that state this clearly, I'm afraid no false advertisements were made.

 

If you really feel that they've committed a crime by false advertisement, why haven't you legally done anything about it then?

 

 

Oh sure, sue for a $29 game, we all can afford to hire attorneys for that  😒

 

It was not a "misunderstanding".  This is all part of the "spin-the-narrative" that they have gradually been building onto for the past several years, starting with Anti-cheat and Rifts, which at the time they pointed out were rare exceptions.   Hard to track down some of it because some parts of the Wurm website get edited silently over time, some sections get removed entirely, and some very specific and cited pages I tried to track down in Wayback machine, no longer exist even in third party internet archives even though there are multiple references to the now missing content (example: https://www.wurmonline.com/author/rolf/page/5/ ). 

 

But Rolf has said many times that both games will get the same updates, though possibly NOT at the same time, and that everyone would be playing the same game with the same code. People asked "will it be updated like the official server?" and Rolf replied "Yes".  A few of those are still in the FAQ. Others are still in the Wurm official announcements, such as the sentence

 

Starting from next week, we'll be posting the weekly news to Steam as well, and it'll be a slot shared by both WO and WU for talking about dev work on both games. It's because almost everything we develop for one game can and will be added to the other (things like graphics updates or new features,) and so it seems logical to share the news between the two.

 

That is pretty specific. Some things they made clear pretty early on, however, would be exceptions.   As in,  "ALMOST everything" can (and WILL) be added to both games.   The very first exception was the game's anti-cheating code, which they decided not to add because, as they told us,  doing so would show people EXACTLY how to circumvent the anti-cheating code. Ok, that makes sense. Not because "we never promised you the same content" but because "we cannot do it without jeopardizing the entire point of anti-cheat code." Some people were not satsified, said they were promised it, and were told No, that is one of the exceptions we meant when we said ALMOST everything would be identical. 

 

From the official FAQ:

 

How will this affect the development of the MMO?
WU and WO share the same code, but the main branch is WO which means we will develop the WO server code first and then release on WU, except when there are features that are more appropriate to try on WU first. Such changes may be added to WO when we feel that they are tested properly. When it comes to the client, the code is also very much shared and improvements of for instance settings or rendering will be available for both within a fairly short time frame.

 

Will WU be updated like the official server?
Yes, the game will be updates with fixes from the Wurm Online code which will remain the main development track.

 

These are, in Rolf's words, FEATURES shared by both WU and WO. Not "bug corrections". Yes, his English fails him a little grammatically when he refers to "updates with fixes from the Wurm Online code which will remain the main development track," as in this case the specific word "fixes" suggests "bugfixes" but clearly meant "changes" (because the changes were updating the code to add the same features),   but his meaning is clear - -  some may come to WO first and later added to WU, and in some cases it might happen that the content changes go to WU first. But in any case, the FEATURES come to BOTH.  There would never ever be a reason to add a bugfix to WU first, and to WO later. That would be nonsensical. Later they very slowly started adding those occasional "exceptions" in actual content.  Anti-cheating as i said was the very first "exception," i had no personal problem with that.  Rifts were next, and  frankly I never personally cared about rifts either, so I mostly skipped over the drama there .   Some people complained anyway because of the principle -- start doing this once or twice and next you know they will make it permanent.  Rolf has since stopped posting on WO and PR folk have pretty much stopped saying "we never promised you updates, we meant umm FIXES" after enough people had quoted enough of Rolf's own words back to them.  They broke a promise, it is not the first time a company has ever done that to its customers, and certainly not the first game has been sold on false advertising.

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up caring about it for the following reasons:

 

  • After spending exactly 8,510 hours on Wurm Unlimited for $29 total, I have to admit i actually more than got my moneys worth. I did not feel the same about the thousands I spent over the years on Wurm Online, for roughly the same number of hours, which is why I left Wurm Online in December 2014 and will never be back. The frustrations I was feeling in WO every day, I see reflected in BDew's frustrations over ANYTHING to do with WU today .Yeah technically Rolf promised, but I am still happy with what i got. I can understand BDew's own frustration level, but i have made my own peace. (Unless it involves guard tower bugs.)
  • I literally no longer believe they even -can- do both WO and WU updates. I am sure Rolf meant at the time every word he said. Rolf has always been a little .. impulsive.  Like that time he decided over lunch to enable PVP on ALL servers, so that pvp servers could row over and raid and destroy PvE settlements. He literally thought it would be a lot of fun.  I think originally WU's huge influx of initial money saved WO's very survival, but to continue it now five years later, might actually cost WO's survival. WU pretty much bought them five years of some exceptional unmatched content development. I would hate to see Wurm Online die, even if WU survived on.  It clearly was too hard for them to keep up with WU updates -- first it was a delay of maybe a week or two, then months, then stretching into a year or more. They kept promising the updates would start being more regular but instead it would get worse. The writing was pretty much on the wall. It was beyond their abilities. And so it ended.
  • I actually am pretty HAPPY with the current content on WU. Not just "I got my $29.00 worth after 8,000 hours," but as in "yeah I can KEEP playing this like this for another good ten years frankly."  Worrying about promises broken was not worth the stress. You can see how it has torn BDew apart, because he gave his heart to the WU modding community. And I am mostly sorry for the lie because of the damage done to contributors like BDew, who gave so much and asked nothing at all in return. In fact, the only reason I even bothered to reply NOW, is I have been pretty fed up with your constant carping and bitching at BDew in particular, and gaslighting of the community in general. 

 

 

Otherwise, I gave up caring, or believing, long ago. For me, It's not the end of the world. But then I never volunteered the thousands of hours BDew gave in trying to improve the WU world for everyone. I frankly only played it for myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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2 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

In fact, the only reason I even bothered to reply NOW, is I have been pretty fed up with your constant carping and bitching at BDew in particular, and gaslighting of the community in general.

 

I find it funny you replied only because "I gaslight" except I'm not the one who appears to be seeking down any thread possible to make the same statements over and over again about how Wurm and/or CodeClub are liars, scammers and so forth.

Even after being addressed by Codeclub staff about it in the first place.

It's also ironic how you want to point out that I'm targeting BDew specifically here, but BDew is the loudest, most consistent and appears everywhere there is opportunity to voice this same opinion on the subject. So of course it looks as though I'm targeting BDew in particular. BDew in particular is the one who seems to be looking for a reason to post to the forums about WU being "abandoned". I'm starting to think it's becoming one of those things to do when there's nothing else to do it's become so consistent. 

 

While I can understand the frustration of having spent time on modding a game and spending several hours doing so, to have the Development team decide to stop doing the same.. That was a choice any modder made when they decided to put that time and effort in. This goes for any game, not just WU.

One would think that if they stopped making code changes, you'd no longer have to keep fixing your mods that they broke to begin with and you can continue to focus on improving said mods rather than spending energy undoing the bugs they introduced.

2 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

It's because almost everything we develop for one game can and will be added to the other (things like graphics updates or new features,) and so it seems logical to share the news between the two.

 

2 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Oh sure, sue for a $29 game, we all can afford to hire attorneys for that

If we're going to rage hard about false advertisement on forums and post about it on the regular basis, on what seems like every given chance to do so.

For words that were never specifically said and yet still claim "false advertisement", I think it was a fair statement/suggestion to make when one wants to make such a claim and then reinforce said claim with it being illegal in most parts of the world.

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"Hello devs, I payed a 1$ for WU on Humble. I hope you gonna work on this game till the end of your days"

 

Even changing 1$ to 50$ or 200$ still makes this sentence funny.

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Too bad its to "hard" to make wu have a function where players could buy dlc's in the forms of new skins 😕 it would be a nice revenue income for wu related stuff

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I love how the $1 copies of WU keep being brought up like the players had broken into the warehouse where the WU's are kept and sold on the black WUarket.

 

Details, eh.

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Thats just terrible marketing on the devs part.

The game wasnt making enough money because of their terrible non existent marketing plan

They didnt even bother trying to market the game

 

Free weekends? Nope. Never happened. 

 

Rust like server monetization where you pay money for the devs to host your server?  Nope

 

Steam sales? Nope. Never seen the game on sale, maybe once in the beginning?


Putting the game on humble bundle for everyone to get for 1$? Yes.
 

They couldnt ###### up more badly if they tried. Its clear that they never cared about WU and as soon as Rolf came back into the fold the game was abandoned.

 

Edited by nitram20

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5 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

Steam sales? Nope. Never seen the game on sale, maybe once in the beginning?

 

 

Actually there have been some Steam sales, which really showed spikes in players online but in the end most gave up on Wurm.

There also have been more people playing WU than WO but most of them quit quite fast.

Edited by Sklo:D

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8 hours ago, Mordraug said:

I love how the $1 copies of WU keep being brought up like the players had broken into the warehouse where the WU's are kept and sold on the black WUarket.

 

Details, eh.

 

take a look at very first post in this topic, a video actually. WU was bought for $0.69. go figure lol

Edited by Skatyna

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On 6/9/2020 at 4:51 AM, Skatyna said:

 

take a look at very first post in this topic, a video actually. WU was bought for $0.69. go figure lol

The cheapest one has been able to get wu is 20 cents in a bundle on fanatical last year march and its exactly because of bs like that add in the fact that with every cheap bundle it was paired with games that often gave back more money in steam wallet money then the games cost(trading cards) a lot of people would buy it for those games and be left with unused wu keys never to be used(i know)😕 this happened quite a few times over the years not even counting the humble 1 dollar deal

Even now wurm unlimited is at 5.62

Now lets have a look at factorio used to be 20 is now 30 will always remain 30 for as long as its worked on and its making them enough constantly to go from a tiny team to a bigger office and bigger team and practically also no marketing really anywhere

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On 6/5/2020 at 9:25 PM, Morrowen said:

Found another wurm mention at 5 minutes

 

 

Yup, I called this a scam years ago, based entirely on the behavior of the staff behind the game COE. They even refused to give a refund to a guy that paid a sizable donation, after he later came down with Cancer and needed the money for treatment. After some pressure, COE finally agreed to give back half of his donation (which was into the $1000's if he sent them medical papers) but they also would not refund his wife as they both planned to play. I posted on their forums making the comment regarding their claim that no one has done what they are doing in an MMO, except that I knew it was it was a clone of Wurm and I outlined nearly everything that they borrowed from Wurm for their game. Even so, it was not to the same degree as it is here in Wurm. For example, terraforming is only to flatten a spot to place a building and buildings are predesigned, you select a choice, it's not tile by tile.... when I posted this on their forums, they promptly removed the post without explanation and then I put up a page on my own site in response and gained first page rank for the phrase "Chronicles of Elyria Scam" which for a couple of years brought more traffic to my site than any other phrase.

 

Interesting video, in fact one line is almost identical to a line on my website... when I said "Virtually every feature of the game is a clone of Wurm Online". Anyway, scam or not, they were doing it wrong, Wurm is much better.

Edited by Whane

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