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Angelklaine

Overmoderation of Trade Chat?

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Today there was a discusion in the trade channel in which I believe moderation went out of hand and jumped the gun. I would like to get some clarification and opinions from the community regarding this incident. The purpose of this post is not to bash staff and thus I have removed the staff member's name to protect their identity. I believe that the work these volunteers do is great and deserving of praise and thus I would hate to see them punished or mocked for doing the job they do. Please leave staff bashing out of this thread.

 

The incident refers to a price check in the trade chat in which a total of 10 posts within 4 people were made in a span of 2 minutes. We are talking about 3 or less posts per person during the entire conversation regarding this price check. It is my opinion that the staff member jumped the gun and  came off a bit snarky on the subject which needed no moderation. The 10 posts were related to the price check asked and in no way deviate from the subject at hand. According to the Staff member, this is not allowed in the context of the trade channel. Here is the conversation in the trade channel: 

 

[17:10:10] <System> This is the Trade channel. 
[17:10:10] <System> Only messages starting with WTB, WTS, WTT, PC or @ are allowed. 
[17:10:10] <System> Please PM the person if you are interested in the Item.
[17:10:10] <System> You can also use @<name> to send a reply in this channel to <name>.
[17:10:10] <System> You can disable receiving these messages, by a setting in your profile.

[17:12:20] <Twiixx> (Rel) wts moonmetal got 4kg
[17:12:30] <Twiixx> (Rel) WTS https://imgur.com/Uv68JcS
[17:13:48] <Keekoot> (Pri) PC how mcuh do scale sets go for right now
[17:14:11] <Platyna> (Ind) PC Since I am playing there were just 3 offers.
[17:14:18] <Angelklaine> (Xan) pc on scale.45 x.01kg
[17:14:34] <Keekoot> (Pri) PC no i mean a scale set not scale thats different
[17:14:42] <Bdckoolaid> (Cel) PC last I saw scale sets were going for 1-1.5g ballpark
[17:14:49] <Angelklaine> (Xan) pc oh, I seen them for 185s -200s
[17:15:04] <Keekoot> (Pri) pc people expect you to pay 300e for enough scale to make a set when the price for a already made set is like hafl
[17:15:35] <Kgorski> (Xan) pc you mean 300s not 300e :D there are no more RMT :D
[17:15:48] <Angelklaine> (Xan) pc The prices went down to 1.5g during the mass sellout. But you wont find a full set that cheap now. Prices went back up/
[17:15:53] <Bdckoolaid> (Cel) PC he means he's buying his silver from the shop :)

[17:16:37] <xxxxxxxx> (Ind) 1: RMT is banned indeed. 2 : less talkytalk in trade? ;)
[17:16:43] <Keekoot> (Pri) WTB well thats not too bad well if anyone has scale or drake set let me know
[17:20:24] <Beastwulf> (Cel) WTB 90ql steel lockpicks

 

I took it upn myself to converse with the CM to try and understand what went wrong there to avoid this from happening in the future. The CM came to me a bit abrasive and defensive, and as such I decided to just disengage. I don't think this should be a thing and would like the community opinion in the subject.

 

Logging started 2020-05-08
[17:17:39] Chat opened.
[17:18:14] <Angelklaine> He was asking for a PC and we were explaining it. The talk was trade / price check related.
[17:20:04] <xxxxxxxxxx> Trade is there for buying and selling, not discussions. Using /tell would be appropriate in this situation :)
[17:20:45] <Angelklaine> I thought answering a price check was appropiate too. The command should be removed if that's not a thing
[17:22:31] <xxxxxxxxxx> Price checks are often taken to PM as they tend to lead to discussion, as we saw just now
[17:23:13] <Angelklaine> Is there a place where I can read these rules? It seems a bit arbitrary and I would like to remain within the rules to avoid sanctions.
[17:25:20] <xxxxxxxxxx> You can PM Enki on the forums to have it clarified if you want
[17:25:52] <Angelklaine> ???
[17:26:08] <Angelklaine> I am not asking for a clarification.
[17:27:05] <Angelklaine> Why would I bother enki with that. If there's no rules then just say so. I just want to know what the policy on that is.
[17:27:43] <xxxxxxxxxx> I'm just saying there are multiple ways to discuss prices. Using PC in trade chat is not one of them. There isn't a ruleset per channel but if you want one, you'd have to talk to the HGM for now
[17:28:25] <Angelklaine> ok Thank you.
[17:28:42] <xxxxxxxxxx> You're welcome. Have a good day :)

 

If you were witness to the incident and know who the CM in question is, please keep it to yourself. I would like to know the community opinion on this and what if anything could be improved.

 

Thanks!

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Remember there is an option to use @<nick> in trade channel also. I use this quite often when someone is asking PC and i want to answer it. Only the person youre "tagging" will see the message.

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16 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

[17:15:48] <Angelklaine> (Xan) pc The prices went down to 1.5g during the mass sellout. But you wont find a full set that cheap now. Prices went back up/

 

This comment was the source of the colored font.  You had already answered the guy's PC on a scale set.  

 

I will also answer people's questions in trade chat... like the guy that asked "PC 1 BSB full of dirt".  I responded "PC 30c".  I didn't start a discussion.

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16 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

This comment was the source of the colored font.  You had already answered the guy's PC on a scale set.  

 

I will also answer people's questions in trade chat... like the guy that asked "PC 1 BSB full of dirt".  I responded "PC 30c".  I didn't start a discussion.

 

"The price of bricks is a little high. We should lower it because brick chipping is cheap." <- Discussion.

 

<Bdckoolaid> (Cel) PC last I saw scale sets were going for 1-1.5g ballpark

<Angelklaine> (Xan) pc oh, I seen them for 185s -200s

<Angelklaine> (Xan) pc The prices went down to 1.5g during the mass sellout. But you wont find a full set that cheap now. Prices went back up/<- Clarification as to why the prices are so vastly different between the two checks.

 

Did that really needed moderation though? Is not like players went in a side tangent disrupting the flow of the trade chat. The whole incident includes 10 posts between 4 people, 6 posts if we only includes the ones after he corrected me for scale set and not raw scale. So in reality a total of 6 posts compelled a mod to get involved.

 

 

Edited by Retrograde
Removed poe's law

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I think you're missing the fact it was a pc for scale sets and then divulged into the discussion about how prices have dropped, rmt, and buying silver from the shop. It went far beyond the initial context and trade isn't the place for it.

 

Coloured text is a reminder to drop the subject or move on, no one was moderated. 

 

Also, nothing in that PM is abrasive or defensive, it appears you may have been a little offended at the use of coloured text more than anything. 

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I think you're missing the fact it was a pc for scale sets and then divulged into the discussion about how prices have dropped, rmt, and buying silver from the shop. It went far beyond the initial context and trade isn't the place for it.

 

Coloured text is a reminder to drop the subject or move on, no one was moderated. 

 

Also, nothing in that PM is abrasive or defensive, it appears you may have been a little offended at the use of coloured text more than anything. 

Is not about being offended. Its about being told "Ask Enki" when I ask for guidance. That is a dismissive act. Imagine you pming me and asking me "Angel, your boat is in front of my deed, could you move it?" and me responding to you "Go ask someone else." The action is dismissive and arrgoant, like I am being bothered and have no time to deal with you. Let me give you an example of how that could have better been handled:

 

now
[17:23:13] <Angelklaine> Is there a place where I can read these rules? It seems a bit arbitrary and I would like to remain within the rules to avoid sanctions.

[17:25:20] <xxxxxxxxxx> At this time there is no hard set rules on Trade Chat moderations, but its generally frowned upon to have conversations in trade chat.

 

That would be a very valid response. Given how many times Wurm Staff (including Enki himself and including you Retro) have said not to pm Enki for minor things, this is the equivalent of telling me to take a hike. Its not about getting offended, its about being consistent. 

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You received no sanctions in this chat, and typically the rule questioning would be sent to the LCM, but given that the LCM is currently absent Enki is the person to refer to. 

 

It is not dismissive or arrogant, but that Chat Moderators do not have to deal with upset players who PM them and demand answers or they will create a stir on the forums. I strongly advise chat moderators refer cases with difficult players higher up because it's not their duty to handle them. 

 

In this case you were given a directive to move on, no sanction, no moderation. Had you failed to abide by that order you would have received a mutewarn, which is the first moderation action. 

 

 

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Well, i seen people ask for PC on scale set one one character and answer themself with another alt character,followed with off track discussion about why it should someone pay more/less for it., pretty much same thing every time asking for pc scale/set and it's nice someone to remind what's the purpose of the trade chat actually

 

 

Edited by Tor

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7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

You received no sanctions in this chat, and typically the rule questioning would be sent to the LCM, but given that the LCM is currently absent Enki is the person to refer to. 

 

It is not dismissive or arrogant, but that Chat Moderators do not have to deal with upset players who PM them and demand answers or they will create a stir on the forums. I strongly advise chat moderators refer cases with difficult players higher up because it's not their duty to handle them. 

 

In this case you were given a directive to move on, no sanction, no moderation. Had you failed to abide by that order you would have received a mutewarn, which is the first moderation action. 

Who is saying I was sanctioned and where was I being difficult to the CM? I asked a question. Now, if asking a question is considered being difficult, then yes.

 

You are taking this post as if I was trying to fight a moderation action or something. That's not what this is. When the CM intervened I stopped posting because that is the rule. I then took it to a DM because I genuinely had questions that I wish I could have answered. These questions have not been answered yet, which is the concern.

 

Yet you are taking this as a "difficult player". Interesting. I guess you are labeled "Difficult" when you ask questions. Do what I say and don't ask why little drone. Move on.

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Actually it's annoying when trade flashes and it's many people discussing a price, you can pm, you can use @ , like if i know someones PC may be out i will pm the original PC  requester with, what and why i think the PC is, they can then do what they want with it, but if everyone gives their 2c worth it will become GL-Freedom. I think the moderator did well  to remind people it's a trade chat and not a discussion forum.

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A single comment is not over-moderation.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 it appears you may have been a little offended at the use of coloured text more than anything. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

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Indeed sir. From what I understand, the good man was just trying to do his job as a CM. I don't see how he was over-moderating at all.

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Thank you for your comments guys. Just wanted to see everyone's opinions in the matter :)

 

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No overmoderation indeed, coloured chat is not a punishment.

 

Coloured chat is used to get the attention of multiple players. As such coloured chat can also be used for lines that are more or less a friendly reminder to move on.

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On 5/9/2020 at 6:59 AM, Eobersig said:

No overmoderation indeed, coloured chat is not a punishment.

 

Coloured chat is used to get the attention of multiple players. As such coloured chat can also be used for lines that are more or less a friendly reminder to move on.

I dont recall ever saying anyone got punished.

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Apologies, I could have sworn I locked this once it was stated to be resolved. 

 

I've hidden the comments since then as they have simply re-iterated the issue. 

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