Darklords

PvP Discussion #1

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Sn00 said:

 

It's the DPS it has atm. Compared to other weapons (esp one handers) it's just so good it's not worth using anything else.

It has almost the same DPS as a Huge axe and it's a one hander. The negative CR does not matter , it's still the best weapon you can have for pvp essentially.

 

 

sickles are not the problem,  its the fact you can take the best dps weapon and salve it to your needs is the problem. 

until you fix this you arent changing anything. youre just changing the weapon thats on top, you arent creating balance

 

also take into consideration the bt nerf removed viability on like half of the other weapons you used to see in combat

 

do you wanna know what weapon becomes meta after sickle nerf? stay tuned

Edited by platinumteef
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Huge shod club.

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I would like to see hellhorse carts get removed from ALL pvp servers..

And before ppl say there is nothing wrong with having hellhorse carts on pvp servers...

There is a reason the devs removed that option from the Epic Server restart...

Because they get used as a massive safety net in pvp fights...

Because they take no nerf to speed even with bardings on the hellhorses..

Which makes this a must for any pvp server to keep people alive..

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On 5/12/2020 at 8:36 AM, Darklords said:

Removing cures totally from vehicles is of course an option, if that's the route people want it to go instead we are happy to fully remove them from vehicles period it was intentionally left how it was in the old days where slowing down to cast on a specific wound was still doable but if people think it should be removed fully from vehicles that can defiantly be done. Casting on wounds does range from start checks and you cannot move more than a tile on a vehicle during its cast so it left no loophole as players need to basically fully stop to cast them which was ok with us.

 

If you're on a boat you cannot cast on another player directly to cure them. However, you're able to open up their character UI and target each wound with the cure spell instead. Ergo: a loophole.

 

Imagine a new group of players comes to the PvP server and sees players using Cure Light on a boat during combat. Then they try it themselves (targeting the player 3D model) and get an error.

 

If casting Cure spells is not a problem, why not let them cast on the player directly? Why force them into the UI? This change is a sloppy and punishes players in the future who never read the patch notes from April.

 

On 5/12/2020 at 8:36 AM, Darklords said:

As said we are open to ideas for completely new venom effects to replace the low glance of the nerfed version, but going back to it having 0 glance is not something the team is ok with the decision has been made there and we are unlikely to bring it back to 0% glance.

 

Why is Venom ignoring glance rates so frowned upon? If you're giving the middle finger to everyone who owns a Venom weapon, you might as well try to articulate why instead of just saying "we made up our minds." Especially since this does not simply affect PvP servers - it affects players on Freedom as well.

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1 hour ago, Sindusk said:

 

If you're on a boat you cannot cast on another player directly to cure them. However, you're able to open up their character UI and target each wound with the cure spell instead. Ergo: a loophole.

 

Imagine a new group of players comes to the PvP server and sees players using Cure Light on a boat during combat. Then they try it themselves (targeting the player 3D model) and get an error.

 

If casting Cure spells is not a problem, why not let them cast on the player directly? Why force them into the UI? This change is a sloppy and punishes players in the future who never read the patch notes from April.

 

 

Why is Venom ignoring glance rates so frowned upon? If you're giving the middle finger to everyone who owns a Venom weapon, you might as well try to articulate why instead of just saying "we made up our minds." Especially since this does not simply affect PvP servers - it affects players on Freedom as well.

 

There is plenty of tricks to learn as you start to pvp people can't expect to come into pvp knowing everything, but beyond that when casting on the body it already mentions it is only blocked on body casts and tells you to cast it on wounds when on vehicles with the following message. "You must target a wound directly when using this spell on a vehicle." We do not consider wound casting a loophole it does extra range checks that prevent it from being cast while moving more than a tile while on vehicles.

 

Venom removed upto 60% glance in some cases as a blanket enchant that works on any weapons vs any kind of armor type and its only downside which was reduced damage which is negated fully at high powers. It was to accurate and even now it still offers the lowest glance rate across all armor types, it is the lowest glance vs everything still just not absolute 0.

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21 hours ago, Erin said:

I would like to see hellhorse carts get removed from ALL pvp servers..

 

We could also just slow them down in general for pvp servers, but removal is always an option if that isn't enough.

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31 minutes ago, Darklords said:

its only downside which was reduced damage which is negated fully at high powers

do you not consider web armor (which everyone uses because aosp is trash) countering it to be a downside? when you compare an imbued fb/fa/bt weapon vs a venom weapon, the venom one is going to be getting webbed way more due to doing unglancable smaller hits to the point that imbued weapon is better even against the 60% glance armors. venom is cool in 1v1's where you sit on top of someone and slap them to death but actual pvp it's not that useful because of this, and it's why nearly nobody used venom.

Also, nobody used any of these counter armors because everyone uses acid imbues, which the highest glance is 35%. It honestly seems like you're using some impossible scenario that is never going to happen as justification for the nerf lol, though i guess thats why snipe was removed too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Imagine a new group of players comes to the PvP server and sees players using Cure Light on a boat during combat. Then they try it themselves (targeting the player 3D model) and get an error.

 

If casting Cure spells is not a problem, why not let them cast on the player directly? Why force them into the UI? This change is a sloppy and punishes players in the future who never read the patch notes from April.

Ah yes, the famous "think of the newbies" excuse. I agree with you and am against the change, but the "newbie" excuse has been overused already. If you are new to Wurm and you're already doing boat fights, you deserve to get what's coming for you. If you have been around long enough to have priests doing boat fights and you don't know this mechanic, what the heck are you even doing in a PVP server?

Edited by Angelklaine
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10 hours ago, Darklords said:

 

We could also just slow them down in general for pvp servers, but removal is always an option if that isn't enough.

 

slowing them down to where a fully barded hh cart doesn't outrun players on foot would be a good start, unbarded hell horse carts aren't really a problem as the horse drops in enough hits to not be broken

 

just look at bison vs hell horses for carts, bison are tanky af, but go like 12kmh max? so they are not broken

 

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just don't allow hellhorses to be hitched on chaos, it's really that simple

that being said, what plat said is okay too

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I feel halving damage would go a long way to fixing pvp.  Gone are the days someone could take 10 - 15 hits pre sotg. Now you're lucky if you take 3 or 4.

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2 hours ago, Rudie said:

I feel halving damage would go a long way to fixing pvp.  Gone are the days someone could take 10 - 15 hits pre sotg. Now you're lucky if you take 3 or 4.

No one would ever die in boat fights if that was the case though. 

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They used to. All this dumb stuff they added/changed ruined the game.

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2 hours ago, Rudie said:

I feel halving damage would go a long way to fixing pvp.  Gone are the days someone could take 10 - 15 hits pre sotg. Now you're lucky if you take 3 or 4.

 

stop pvping in leather and you won't die in 3-4 hits, you'll find drake and scale to be as pleasant as it ever was

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Posted (edited)

That would imply I've actually played the game for the last 18 months.

 

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That's the problem, you shouldn't need scale or drake to fight. The only people that ever used to fight in scale or drake were the champions and high body accounts before all the SOTG crap and tomes were added, the game was much simpler and a lot more fun then.

Edited by Rudie
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1 hour ago, Rudie said:

They used to. All this dumb stuff they added/changed ruined the game.

 

8 minutes ago, Rudie said:

That would imply I've actually played the game for the last 18 months.

 

great, nice discussion. nothing is really much different from now and then in terms of survival when wearing equivalent gear 

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Roll back the game to 2013 and be done with it. 

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On 5/12/2020 at 12:36 PM, Darklords said:

Cure on a players body heals for pretty large amounts for the short action timer and no movement checks body casts provide.

 

"Cure" lets say cure light or focused will, heals for approximately 20 damage in a 10 second cast.  A 10 second cast which is easily interruptable, or can be interrupted with shield bash, or simply tangleweave the caster (when they aren't casting) to increase this cast time to 20 seconds.   

 

I would also like to argue that limiting the functionality to non-vehicles is fairly pointless.  I fail to see why people should be able to body-cast "cures" when not on a vehicle, as opposed to being on a vehicle.  It can be just as easily abused for situations like being targeted while trying to climb a dirt wall.

 

As for sickles + salves, salves are the problem, not sickles.  You can smear an acid imbue on a spear (which does pierce damage and is meant for someone wearing chain) and it wrecks leather.  100% of the damage becomes acid, not "pierce".  This allows any player to use *any* weapon they want, simply put an "I win" potion on the weapon and you can use it however you want.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2020 at 4:09 PM, Polojordan said:

I'd strongly agree with this if there Were any hots kingdoms, but there arent and havent been for quite a while

 

There's also EPIC, not only chaos. BLer do exist on Elevation you know...

 

To OP:

 

Also, i personally dont really get whats the beef with the healing stuff during pvp? if it was me, anyone could heal the crap out of them, pvp would last 2-3, maybe 4 hours long, so what? no one dies - so what? Also, what stays brushed under the carpet is the fact that pvp servers also have pve game play.. now you implemented higher healing spell resistances to pvp servers.. that also has a HUGE effect to pve on pvp servers. like unique killings, huntings etc. Why do pvpers have to get nearly double healing resistances compared to freedom fighting and healing vs a troll? a hatchling? if the pvp side healing is an issue, then implement enemy local check prior spell casting, and if enemies are in local, give it higher resistance, but if there are no enemies and the lonely FO priest is just grinding his fighting skills leave him be with no increased resistances etc.. the way it was done now was just "everything mashed up in the same pot" and job was called done. 

 

now venom... you want RNG with it so adopted glance.. Then modify venom in a way it also has RNG instantly kill a player/creature. Im not talking insane rates - like 2% per hit at 100 power cast (would require testing ofc), but a chance, a roll. Like someone gets damaged with venom weapon, there is a chance it gets killed instantly after a hit with no time delay. let it be low damage compared to other enchants, i get it will glance now as you set the stone on the matter, but add it ability to instantly kill at a low rate. Pure rng if some veteran gets owned by a newly character. why not?

 

Another issue i personally always found annoying is the total gear loss. why cant we implement a rune or something, that if an item is runed with this type of rune, it stays with you upon death. why cant we have a "safe" gear set to pvp? i mean i died, i re-spawned, grabbed another horse and im back on the scene. I wouldn't be afraid to meet anyone 1x1, 1x2 or so as i would know that after each re-spawn i dont have to spend a day next to a forge and another day enchanting with priests a new set potentially just to loose it on the next pvp. 

Edited by Skatyna

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2020 at 9:23 AM, Sindusk said:

 

If you're on a boat you cannot cast on another player directly to cure them. However, you're able to open up their character UI and target each wound with the cure spell instead. Ergo: a loophole.


That's like saying why can't we just right click/cotton a player model and click Cotton instead of the wound window, It's just something you learn/know.

Edited by Mclavin

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i am currently writing a manifesto

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11 hours ago, Postes said:

i am currently writing a manifesto

 

Does it involve red sock puppets?

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49 minutes ago, Rhianna said:

 

Does it involve red sock puppets?

Probably a Mag and a Fo puppet 

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lol Angel - was referring to a vid about pvp and game theory Poste made years ago which involved a red sock puppet - wish I still had it ;)

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that was a beanie baby fyi 

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