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Killroth

Add PVE alliance templates for banners and tabards before steam!

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Please before you add the game to steam add some kinda customizable banners/tabards for alliances. Its been requested for a long time. There needs to be a way to show our affiliation.

 

PVE is where you will make your money on STEAM. This is a feature in most mmos and its there for a reason people like to have some kinda colors to bind them.

 

The reason i only mention tabards/banners i intentional.

That will mean less work for art team and and maybe can make an uploadable template.

You could make the center of the freedom tabard have the default freedom kingdom image. make it dyeable on the outside. 

Could do the same with tall and short banners and thats enough for a pve kingdom.

And dont even put pvp wagons and tents on steam its not right to sell stuff on one server you cant make.

I mean if that is your methodology for pvp servers making money you might as well let them make fountain pans and bags of keeping.

 

Alright thanks.

Edited by Killroth
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added to original ignore this please.

Edited by Killroth

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2 minutes ago, Killroth said:

you might as well let them make fountain pans and bags of keeping.

hell yeah dude add that

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personalized deed heraldry purchasable from a trader starting with a scroll using a similar mechanic as shop signs only a bit more complex starting with the frame

Spoiler

3GxffQv.png

 

then the back ground would have a few options along with the field show below the color of the field could be chosen here

Spoiler

jrOZnLj.png

 

then a few options for the main image depending on the field chosen you have a few placement options upon the field, or to keep it simple the image could just be the only one you can choose would still give plenty of options and variations. color would be one of the options for the image too. 

Spoiler

m9x2s3F.jpg?1

to prevent the creation of a black horse on a black field a very simple heraldic rule would be in place "no metal on metal no color on color" any part of the image can not share a color with another part of the image in other words if u have a white(silver), and a yellow(gold) party per bend field you can not have a yellow(gold) wolf bust, it would say you need to change the color values to complete.  the alliance heraldry could be a bit more complex but i have thought about this idea for a very long time and even posted a thread about it myself long ago here.

 

Edited by leander
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That would be Awesome and would require only an initial investment of programming.

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Bump. Several threads regarding this can we get an official answer and merge on the threads.

 

Also if you cant do something for filthy casual wurm players who dont like 300 slope dirt walls you might as well let them craft useful items on pvp servers that are OP like wand of sea, bag of keeping, staff of land etc. I mean if you are going to have a situation in a sandbox where only certain people can have a community and others just get to be hermits supporting the valued customers why not go ham.

 

 

Edited by Killroth

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45 minutes ago, Killroth said:

Also if you cant do something for filthy casual wurm players who dont like 300 slope dirt walls you might as well let them craft useful items on pvp servers that are OP like wand of sea, bag of keeping, staff of land etc. I mean if you are going to have a situation in a sandbox where only certain people can have a community and others just get to be hermits supporting the valued customers why not go ham.

 

 

Only certain people?  Last I checked, the borders of Chaos were open to all freedomers, not just the ones that aren't scared to cross.

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7 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Only certain people?  Last I checked, the borders of Chaos were open to all freedomers, not just the ones that aren't scared to cross.

 

XD

 

Do we need to quote the thread again?

 



We've already established, that's not how things work.  There is an active "out to get them" attitude for folks who go there to make custom gear.

Edited by Etherdrifter
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Other than your usual attempt at trolling PvPers, I fail to see the relevance of the thread you just linked.

 

You have no idea how the existing system works, you are merely here to pick a fight.  If you knew anything at all about how the system currently works, you would know that there's more to it than one person planting a flag on a random spot.

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Just like you are constantly trying to troll PvEers whenever this suggestion comes up?

 

He's referring to the fact that you (personally, and parts of dwindling PvP population) don't actually want people to come to Chaos just to make merch and just constantly deflect the suggestion with this clearly bad faith counter proposal. The "current system" is irrelevant to the OP, the whole point of it is to not use it and have something separate for PvE, so wether Etherdrifter understands it or not is not required to make this point.

Edited by Flubb

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10 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Other than your usual attempt at trolling PvPers, I fail to see the relevance of the thread you just linked.

Here's the deal.  That thread is very pertinent to any thread where "just come to chaos and make a kingdom" comes up.

 

It is literally what happened when someone did just that, founded a kingdom to get custom items.  It is literally an evidenced counterargument to the point.

 

Maybe if "just come to chaos and found a kingdom" didn't come up, that thread would also stop coming up?

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As I was saying it many times in the past. No to free pmk or pma stuff.

Personal Heraldry for some symbolic pve achievements related to it, like knight title yes- for a single player. Or for a deed/ alliance if it get over 20 allied deeds and make a heraldry purchase from trader. 

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13 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

It is literally what happened when someone did just that, founded a kingdom to get custom items.  It is literally an evidenced counterargument to the point.

 

And that person is, still to this day, trying to sell what I consider to be a pretty cool graphic to other players.  Good luck selling wagons for 50s post-RMT....but hey, God bless him for trying hehe.

 

He came to Chaos, he made a kingdom, and he risked a 30 ql set of cloth armor and a 70 QL huge axe to found a PMK of his own.  Oh, and a 50 ql sailboat...

 

He did the work, other people can too.  Whether or not my fellow PvPers on Chaos agree or not is irrelevant - because it is within their power to attempt to do something about it....it is a PvP server after all.  

 

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So you're saying, essentially, that if others started doing this everything would be grand?  I'll take you at your word, for now.

 

I can see your viewpoint, it would certainly add background conflict to PvP.  Hunting down such players would be very rewarding for a well organised PvP kingdom.

 

However, it comes at a very steep cost: it demands active participation in PvP to continue production, which essentially forces players to play a game they don't want to play to get something for the game they do want to play.  It can also act as a barrier to certain groups (9--5 workers in the same timezone being an example).

 

This latter disadvantage, and the one-way advantage, doesn't speak highly of the status-quo.  It bespeaks a need for change.

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4 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

So you're saying, essentially, that if others started doing this everything would be grand?

if everyone abuses it hard enough it'll get changed into a system thats bad for everyone 😍😍😍

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12 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

So you're saying, essentially, that if others started doing this everything would be grand?  

 

You have to keep in mind there are more "deceased" PMK's than I can count on both hands.  If someone (your typical PMK merchandise collector) were obsessed with having every single wagon, even the rare ones like Macedon, Black Legion and Crow Kingdom, they aren't necessarily just interested in the latest PMK graphic from Kenn-Jellon or Pirates, the two newest PMK's on Chaos.  They'll want an EMR wagon, a JK wagon, maybe a TC, LoA,, DD or LoA wagon.... and buying those wagons from some other freedomer (or retired member of those kingdoms) does noting to impact the present economy of current kingdoms on Chaos.

 

This is why I don't fully support the "kingdoms need the PMK merchandise income" argument from most people on Chaos.

 

12 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

However, it comes at a very steep cost: it demands active participation in PvP to continue production, which essentially forces players to play a game they don't want to play to get something for the game they do want to play.  It can also act as a barrier to certain groups (9--5 workers in the same timezone being an example).

 

I'm not going to clutter this thread by trying to bother explaining PvP mechanics that you don't understand.  I'll simply say you're wrong, and I'll also add that "9-5 players" have been exploited by pretty much every kingdom in Chaos' existence.  

 

 

12 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

This latter disadvantage, and the one-way advantage, doesn't speak highly of the status-quo.  It bespeaks a need for change.

 

What "change" would that be?

 

A new form of making currency, selling banners/flags with your alliance pattern?  Why would people want to buy them, when they can simply make their own, using your exact same design? 

 

Decoration?  Okay, then it is perfectly reasonable that they only keep the "Design" if they are placed on that deed/alliance land.

 

Motives for personalized décor can differ, but my argument is against having the ability to not only waive the risk of sailing to Chaos (which is all the anti-PvP crazies like you want to talk about) but also the economic COST to found a PMK.... that's right folks... they aren't free.

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These are surprisingly well reasoned points.  Though there are a few small gaps.

 

Collectors are likely to follow the scenario you mentioned, they're also going to buy from current kingdoms as well.  They likely do contribute in some way to PvP funds, though ascertaining the degree isn't altogether possible.  Importantly, collectors hold onto their collections, unto wurm do they part.  Such items rarely re-enter the market.

 

 

My on the need to participate on PvP falls from one simple assumption.  A kingdom without defenders is a kingdom that will fall "quickly".  If this assumption is false, then you may be right in calling my argument wrong, otherwise it stands.

 

 

I don't think the idea here was ever focused on making money (people could just buy their own heraldry as you say, if they were so inclined); merely people wanting to express themselves and have some pride in their alliance.  The folks who sink years of their lives building roads, planting forests, and shaping the world deserve pride too.

 

I have always argued that the price in silver should be steeper in PvE because that is just good risk/reward design.  Pay a steep price, or pay a lower one with the risk inherent.  However, it could be argued that the price and concept could also just be different; focused on a fixed series of components that are unlocked through huge amounts of bulk goods.

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2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

A kingdom without defenders is a kingdom that will fall "quickly".  If this assumption is false, then you may be right in calling my argument wrong, otherwise it stands.

 

Yes, this assumption is false.  I'm not going to clutter the thread explaining why here.

 

2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

focused on a fixed series of components that are unlocked through huge amounts of bulk goods.

 

That's actually a really good idea.  Something crazy like having to make 100 70 ql bird cages on top of a 1g fee.  Or something else that is a culmination of skills that will take MUCH effort (too much for an individual, but attainable for an alliance of 5-10 people.

 

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i refer to my earlier comment about personal heraldry already in this thread and ill expand on requirements.   i believe it is a solid compromise and solution maybe it could cost like 1g from the trader or something so its still a goal to get so not everyone will have them just the ones who can afford it and perhaps it could be a deed loyalty achievement like u gain access to it if your deed has bee there for idk 5 years or so.. im not gonna quote my post because it is huge with a lot of imbedded images 

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On 4/30/2020 at 5:07 AM, leander said:

i refer to my earlier comment about personal heraldry already in this thread and ill expand on requirements.   i believe it is a solid compromise and solution maybe it could cost like 1g from the trader or something so its still a goal to get so not everyone will have them just the ones who can afford it and perhaps it could be a deed loyalty achievement like u gain access to it if your deed has bee there for idk 5 years or so.. im not gonna quote my post because it is huge with a lot of imbedded images 

 

I dont think personal heraldry needs to be a thing but we do need something for alliances/villages.

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Not to Hi-jack the thread but In addition to Alliance Heraldry, Flags and Wagons, and Deed Heraldry flags, would be cool to see some incentive to create Alliances and Villages. Everyone hermits and it seems like when the game first came out the DEVs had in mind small villages and towns formed by players and groups of friends. With deeds being so cheap to found now, I wonder why there isn't some incentive for Deeds to have or get by having more villagers. Same with Alliances, there should be something to give incentive to join Alliances, PVE Heraldry and Flags etc is a start, but what else could be added? I'm curious what my fellow Wurmians think,

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If the concern is the balance of risk vs investment, just make the alliance ones a larger investment. Sure, pay the 100+ silver to declare the design, but then have to buy/use an item from the trader for EVERY ITEM MADE with that design. Suddenly the investment is less profitable if someone is wanting just a design that is different than the freedom one.  Plus, instead of freedom players just being expected to fund the PVP aspect of the game, they're helping to fund the game in more ways to ensure longevity and continued development with an additional cash sink.

 

Or, just make blank versions able to be dyed to make players happier. The Freedom design is old and boring and players want options without being forced into PVP. If they want designs, cool, head to chaos. If they just want color, let them dye things.

Edited by Seriphina
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On 5/11/2020 at 9:32 AM, Seriphina said:

Or, just make blank versions able to be dyed to make players happier. The Freedom design is old and boring and players want options without being forced into PVP. If they want designs, cool, head to chaos. If they just want color, let them dye things.

i personally hate pvp in any game i play.  it infuriates me me and in this game where in pvp situations it's designed to explicitly punish u if u die by the fact u can have your affinities and gear stolen and lose skill just by dying so i am absolutely never gonna set one foot on pvp grounds with my main.  if i ever get adventurous enough i may but hell may have an ac unit installed then.

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