Supermastermind

Unique creature - private slaying is unfair

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2020 at 1:47 AM, Madnath said:

These two posts have changed my outlook on this.

Sack off penning, I want to watch 100 accounts without even 50 fight skill to bumrush a dragon and get absolutely nae nae'd into the sky Team Rocket style because they have 0 idea on what to do, how to do it and the lack of skill or communication to do so

 

Funny, but :

 

Even on the new servers, there will be old wurmians creating accounts. With their skill and knowledge, it will take them days to get to 50 skill, week(s) to get to 70 etc., and be equipped appropriately. And they know everything about penning a unique and slapping it to death. Now mind that even my priestess with her 5.54 FS, a ql51 silver longsword, and ql40 studded (sry I equipped her in a hurry ;) ) caused damage on a dragon during a public slaying, and survived at least one full hit.

 

So uniques are bound to die even there, and even against crowds of noobs, will only be bit bloodier. And ofc experience players will dominate, there even more than here.

 

That said, I disagree to any "making uniques more available to everybody" which I consider dumbing down. I love public slayings (not only, but quite much for the bloods, but even more for the fun of the event). I would be all for every reasonable proposal making public slayings at least bit more frequent, such as rewards/bonuses for the organizer/finder. But that's all in my opinion. I am fine with private slayings though I never was part in one and won't be for some forseeable future.

Edited by Ekcin

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21 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 

Funny, but :

 

Even on the new servers, there will be old wurmians creating accounts. With their skill and knowledge, it will take them days to get to 50 skill, week(s) to get to 70 etc., and be equipped appropriately. And they know everything about penning a unique and slapping it to death.


Group of 5
1 dedicated miner
1 wc/builds
1 smith
1 forages and provides for food

1 joins in doing what ever needs to happen the most with the rest


1 cave wall at low skill takes 29 minutes and then some with newbie tools(if you just queue up 3 actions in a row start of 16 seconds end up past 35 seconds) at max

A groups basic house would be a 2x2 with a forge and oven a loom 3-4 large carts basic replacement tools all that jaz everything will be ql 10 or lower in the first day sure we got way better armor nowdays with the curve on gear and starting ql and such so hunting is easier but it will take quite a bit with no lt and limited to no cotton to actually grind fighting

People's main concerns will be ropes and cotton and food and basic tools and securing their deed and a guard tower or 2 and the bigger groups sure could be a bit more focused on fighting but a few days to 50 and a week to 70 isnt a thing that will happen when there are no enchants and no high ql gear a new player can not get to 70 in a week or 2 when the entire server starts out fresh maybe after the first month is done with sure people with villages and big groups can have the farms to supply the dozens of cotton needed a day for a fighter but until LT/high gear shows up grinding really high really quickly isnt going to happen 

Now if we had ql 70 chain a ql 70 axe and shield and the axe has LT of atleast 80 sure a brand new toon can get to 80 fs in under a week but that just isnt a thing on that new cluster so it will still be quite some time before uniques will be murdered unless giant groups band together with ql 40-50 studded/chain and tents and just suicide kill the thing but if they cant get it done before it starts to heal then good luck even now there are attempts where 15 man groups fail because not enough hard hitters exist




To the topic itself this whole "private slaying is unfair" bs is just that bs if someone finds it and pens it let them have it if you want it go roam around learn the spawn point area's and learn their timers check WU code learn how to read java check spawn code to get a grasp on how they spawn and it will make your life hunting for uniques in normal wurm a lot easier
Or just be called @PandyLynnand dragons run to you because they think shes a snack

Either way penning uniques for private or public slayings should honestly remain the way it is now as right now you cant track them no one knows their exact spawn times(except for gms) and spawn locations and all we can do is go off what knowledge we picked up over the years on how certain uniques spawn so why take that away?

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14 minutes ago, wipeout said:

check WU code learn how to read java check spawn code to get a grasp on how they spawn and it will make your life hunting for uniques in normal wurm a lot easier

 

Just gonna reply to this argument specifically. To ask players to read trough the code of a game in order to play it is an awful argument.

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Just now, Sn00 said:

 

Just gonna reply to this argument specifically. To ask players to read trough the code of a game in order to play it is an awful argument.

Oh i know im just pointing out that if they really want it to be easy they should do that after all why make unique's even easier to hunt the dev team just had to make them harder because of the trouble a certain few people kept causing so now to go "oh we need to make them easier" is just as bad as me saying "go read code to learn how their spawning mechanics work" 

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I have been lurking on this one, mostly because I have not ever hunted uniques or had much of an interest yet in unique mats - they would be wasted on my character.

 

That said, I have read with interest waning and waxing the various arguments put forward and would like to suggest a few "outsider" observations (otherwise known as "sticking my oar in").

 

1.  Do hunting groups charge membership, or have onerous membership requirements that prevents anyone from joining?  If not, then they are what I would call "public groups" so actions that they perform would not be what I would call "private".  If the bar to hunting group entry is low to none, then it is difficult to complain of "no chance" to be in on a kill.

2.  Is there really a rule that once a unique is penned, everyone NOT in the group that penned it has to leave the area?  I got that impression from one of the above posts.  If so, the rule is just obnoxious nonsense.  The sooner the community is rid of that the better.

3. Permanent or long term penning seems to be a part of the problem.  Why not give uniques that are not under attack some kind of teleport ability with a long cooking time, and only used when their chosen movement is blocked?  Uniques "in the wild" wouldn't use it because they aren't blocked, so hunting groups wouldn't have to worry about an unfound unique suddenly popping into an area they just finishing searching.  Uniques being actively attacked wouldn't use it, so there is no problem for a kill party of having their prey magically escape.  Essentially, it would just be a case of a unique that is penned and left with no apparent intent of a kill could escape back "into the wild".  Limit range, perhaps, if that helps.  It boots nothing to claim that those who penned are entitled to keep it indefinitely.  The "no entitlement" card has two faces.  Maybe captivity should increase mortality, once penned the unique begins to age, reducing the value of the kill over time until the poor brute expires of old age.

4.  Spawn rate per server should reflect server size.  It makes no sense that uniques would appear as often on an 8x8 landscape as on a 32x32 landscape.

 

I don't know what else. This is the stuff I have garnered from the debate.  Shoot it full of holes, endorse it wholesale, whatever.  I have no dragon in this fight.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

2.  Is there really a rule that once a unique is penned, everyone NOT in the group that penned it has to leave the area?  I got that impression from one of the above posts.  If so, the rule is just obnoxious nonsense.  The sooner the community is rid of that the better.

 

There's a very good reason why that exists, and it isn't "obnoxious nonsense."

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1 hour ago, Delacroix said:

 

There's a very good reason why that exists, and it isn't "obnoxious nonsense."

The reason is a nonsense

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2 hours ago, Delacroix said:

 

There's a very good reason why that exists, and it isn't "obnoxious nonsense."

 

So that really is a thing?  Wow.  I would love to know the very sensible reason why a game where "nobody is entitled to content" grants exclusive content entitlement, to the point of evicting bystanders with prejudice.  I suspect that unless this reason is truly compelling, I will remain disappointed about this.

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37 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

 

So that really is a thing?  Wow.  I would love to know the very sensible reason why a game where "nobody is entitled to content" grants exclusive content entitlement, to the point of evicting bystanders with prejudice.  I suspect that unless this reason is truly compelling, I will remain disappointed about this.

I second this, can someone explain to us new players why this rule is in force?

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Posted (edited)

dragons/drakes drop a set amount of loot to everyone in local and if people are in local without fighting they're effectively taking it from the fighting group, it was decided it was very not cool and good after like 5 years of it happening with multiple staff members doing it and it was easier to give people eviction notices than to make loot only drop to fighters or something idk

 

when we had a dragon penned next to a friends deed my favourite thing to do was tell him to get out of his own deed or i was going to report him to the gms

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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3 hours ago, Badvoc said:

can someone explain to us new players why this rule is in force?

 

Sure, it can be summed up in one word:  GREED.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

dragons/drakes drop a set amount of loot to everyone in local and if people are in local without fighting they're effectively taking it from the fighting group, it was decided it was very not cool and good after like 5 years of it happening with multiple staff members doing it and it was easier to give people eviction notices than to make loot only drop to fighters or something idk

 

when we had a dragon penned next to a friends deed my favourite thing to do was tell him to get out of his own deed or i was going to report him to the gms

Reminds me when some guys on WU Wyvern penned up two dragons under their deed. We wanted to kill them, even invited him to join us, but he refused, wanting to make it a public slaying he said.

Well we weren't having any of it.

 

Eventually we found out that his mine ran off deed.

 

So we simply dropped a deed next to him, mined into his mine, lured the dragon under our deed, then collapsed + reinforced ours then we killed both dragons in the guys local and sailed off. 

Edited by atazs
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There is one secret to finding uniques: get away from your deed and LOOK. I have found FOUR in the past year, each time I was out doing something. Not hunting uniques, they were just in the area I was in. I'm not in a hunting group. I'm nobody special. I just happened across them. Yesterday it was a young green dragon. I ran back to my deed, it was announced in Indy chat that we were going to hunt it down and kill it. Everyone who chose to come could, yet only a handful of people from Indy showed up. The rest were friends I pulled in from other servers. 

 

It's not hard. Just be ready to run and gather your thoughts when you are facing a venerable black dragon while in your wagon... it's sure to get your heart racing!

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That's easier said than done on smaller servers but not on Xanadu 

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Why don't they base dragon drops/loot on MVP status? Or make it so you at least have to land a blow. Thus automatically eliminating any by standers that aren't in the fight. And please don't give me the "It's to much work to program" Aka the devs are lazy response. That is so disheartening!

And for those who seem to think that those of us who haven't found uniques aren't looking...I have NOT spent three years hibernating on the deed!!

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Badvoc said:

I second this, can someone explain to us new players why this rule is in force?

 

It was because people would troll by doing things like healing the unique. One person could basically stop a kill in its tracks.

Edited by Delacroix

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37 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

It was because people would troll by doing things like healing the unique. One person could basically stop a kill in its tracks.

 

The ability to cast healing spells on dragons has been removed (at least the "Heal" spell), but I can't speak for bandaging, as it hasn't happened in a year or two in my personal experience.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

The ability to cast healing spells on dragons has been removed (at least the "Heal" spell), but I can't speak for bandaging, as it hasn't happened in a year or two in my personal experience.

 

Speaking from experience, griefing is 100% why that rule was implemented. I don't remember exactly how the healing was done, but it was a huge part of the issue.

Edited by Delacroix

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On 5/29/2020 at 6:03 PM, TheTrickster said:

I have been lurking on this one, mostly because I have not ever hunted uniques or had much of an interest yet in unique mats - they would be wasted on my character.

 

That said, I have read with interest waning and waxing the various arguments put forward and would like to suggest a few "outsider" observations (otherwise known as "sticking my oar in").

 

1.  Do hunting groups charge membership, or have onerous membership requirements that prevents anyone from joining?  If not, then they are what I would call "public groups" so actions that they perform would not be what I would call "private".  If the bar to hunting group entry is low to none, then it is difficult to complain of "no chance" to be in on a kill.

2.  Is there really a rule that once a unique is penned, everyone NOT in the group that penned it has to leave the area?  I got that impression from one of the above posts.  If so, the rule is just obnoxious nonsense.  The sooner the community is rid of that the better.

3. Permanent or long term penning seems to be a part of the problem.  Why not give uniques that are not under attack some kind of teleport ability with a long cooking time, and only used when their chosen movement is blocked?  Uniques "in the wild" wouldn't use it because they aren't blocked, so hunting groups wouldn't have to worry about an unfound unique suddenly popping into an area they just finishing searching.  Uniques being actively attacked wouldn't use it, so there is no problem for a kill party of having their prey magically escape.  Essentially, it would just be a case of a unique that is penned and left with no apparent intent of a kill could escape back "into the wild".  Limit range, perhaps, if that helps.  It boots nothing to claim that those who penned are entitled to keep it indefinitely.  The "no entitlement" card has two faces.  Maybe captivity should increase mortality, once penned the unique begins to age, reducing the value of the kill over time until the poor brute expires of old age.

4.  Spawn rate per server should reflect server size.  It makes no sense that uniques would appear as often on an 8x8 landscape as on a 32x32 landscape.

 

I don't know what else. This is the stuff I have garnered from the debate.  Shoot it full of holes, endorse it wholesale, whatever.  I have no dragon in this fight.  

 

 



1. they do not but the difference we make here between public and private isnt related to that its related to private slayings being alliance or small group of friends slayings(most of them) and public ones being everyone is invited and its posted on the forums and a time is set a while ahead in hopes as many can make it
2. read 

 this along with another rule that was put in place where during a private slaying those who are not part of the group should leave local where put in place after a select small group of players constantly kept showing up for hunt after hunt either to troll by healing the uniques or trying to pull agro and run away with it or during penning trying to steal it these rules where made to put an end to the behavior that was making a lot of people(and i mean a lot) quite angry and let to countless support tickets being created because the people who where doing it refused to stop and on purpose kept showing up even after being told by gms to bugger off before
3. Almost no uniques at all are penned long term what so ever every way we had to pen a unique underground has been fixed they will mine through everything now and if a rock tile is found nearby to where they are they will borrow out to run after a player in local and even if there arent any they will still do the same in hopes of being able to get out so they really do not need a teleport to jump out from underground or anything like that as it would make it impossible to pen a unique for a day or 2 before a slaying can happen note most slayings happen within a week or 2 time and often even faster
4.spawn rates are fine honestly what the issue is that xanadu is hard to transverse with a lot of untouched terrain that uniques can hide in combine that with lag most hunting groups refuse to go there so the rate at which uniques are found is way lower then any other server with an established road network
Ant thus you get the illusion that xanadu spawns are rare but its just that they are still alive out there somewhere after all it is 1 of each per server

But once again unique's are fine you want to be part of  actively hunting unique's go roam your server talk in freedom chat post on the forums try to contact your local hunting group and join them if you want to most groups are nice kind people who just love hunting and because of it find uniques often and last but not least learn as much as you can about where they often spawn which area's which conditions and so on as that will help wonders in determining possible spawn points

The MR alliance on exodus kinda has something like that going where they figured out the rough area's of where uniques can spawn and what types and such(preferred spawn points and such) and they use it to great efficiency to find and murder uniques and they dont do anything special really just knowing the terrain remembering where they spawn and so on

Same goes for on celebration the area of n15 which is my home has many drakes and dragons spawning around it in a few months time because of how desolate the area is compared to other places so by all means drop by explore the area if you find one i will help you pen it if i am around or most others on the server chat would too

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I am so sick of this.  This same rant has been going on for years (since 2012 at least).  My priest was able to dom a drakespirit when they first came out, and they made a great pet.  Sure I died lots of times trying to keep it, but it was a blast!  But the ######-storm that caused from all the folk screaming "but mah drops!", was extremely disheartening.  Greed pervades even video games, and the pressure from this group of folk caused Rolf to program three separate patches to nerf containment each time I figured out how to contain my pet, when he should have been fixing critical bugs in the game.

 

How about this:

  • You can't dominate creatures that folk are going to scream "but mah drops!" about.  I think Rolf already fixed all the issues with trying to contain them.
  • Make a server-wide announcement when the unique spawns, so everybody has a chance to participate, just like for the rift.  And for that matter put a freakin' beacon on it just like the rift.
  • STFU about this once and for all.

And maybe, just maybe, if you want to be nice to another mindset of players, make a couple of really cool, nearly unique creatures that don't drop a damn thing that priests can have as pets, for a time.

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1 hour ago, Arindor said:

I am so sick of this.  This same rant has been going on for years (since 2012 at least).  My priest was able to dom a drakespirit when they first came out, and they made a great pet.  Sure I died lots of times trying to keep it, but it was a blast!  But the ######-storm that caused from all the folk screaming "but mah drops!", was extremely disheartening.  Greed pervades even video games, and the pressure from this group of folk caused Rolf to program three separate patches to nerf containment each time I figured out how to contain my pet, when he should have been fixing critical bugs in the game.

 

How about this:

  • You can't dominate creatures that folk are going to scream "but mah drops!" about.  I think Rolf already fixed all the issues with trying to contain them.
  • Make a server-wide announcement when the unique spawns, so everybody has a chance to participate, just like for the rift.  And for that matter put a freakin' beacon on it just like the rift.
  • STFU about this once and for all.

And maybe, just maybe, if you want to be nice to another mindset of players, make a couple of really cool, nearly unique creatures that don't drop a damn thing that priests can have as pets, for a time.

Agree make it open for everyone with a beacon and a rift area that cant be built on. 

 

This is going to be a huge problem and stink up the steam release that i can assure you...

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10 hours ago, Wurmfarm said:

Agree make it open for everyone with a beacon and a rift area that cant be built on. 

 

This is going to be a huge problem and stink up the steam release that i can assure you...

-1

It really won't. The entitlement is insane; either put in the effort required to get end game items yourself, or simply do other activities to make money to buy them from those who are willing. 

Attempting to say end game content (that likely won't even be possible to complete for at least a month) will stink up the initial release of new servers is foolish, and completely ignores the simple fact that they have actual issues they need to focus on right now. 

 

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totally like adding fancy new graphics. polishing a turd isnt gonna remove the facts that issues with current game will fast become issues with steam.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Wurmfarm said:

polishing a turd isnt gonna remove the facts that issues with current game will fast become issues with steam.

what issues do you think will plague a fresh server of newbies regarding uniques, apart from them being dunked endlessly by one that happens to spawn near a starter or whatever

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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4 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

what issues do you think will plague a fresh server of newbies regarding uniques, apart from them being dunked endlessly by one that happens to spawn near a starter or whatever

I can't wait to see the reaction to being told to leave local because someone 'claimed' a unique a month later.

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