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Unique creature - private slaying is unfair

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6 hours ago, Wurmfarm said:

totally like adding fancy new graphics. polishing a turd isnt gonna remove the facts that issues with current game will fast become issues with steam.

 

"Issues" such as "WAHHHHHH, I WANT MY HANDOUT! GIVE!!!!!!!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHH!"

 

There's problems with the game that should be fast-tracked to a resolution, absolutely--this isn't one of them. The only issue here is the blatant entitlement of the undeserving.

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On 5/29/2020 at 8:58 PM, Oblivionnreaver said:

dragons/drakes drop a set amount of loot to everyone in local and if people are in local without fighting they're effectively taking it from the fighting group, it was decided it was very not cool and good after like 5 years of it happening with multiple staff members doing it and it was easier to give people eviction notices than to make loot only drop to fighters or something idk

 

This is another thing that relates to not coding something right. It's really nonsensical for a dragon to magically drop scales in a local area to players. Why not remove that code? Players who actively participate in a fight should get the loot, that's it. Or at least reduce the local size of loot drop to max 5 tiles. 

 

The decision to "evict" people from local area sounds more like just a band-aid solution to force player behavior in a certain direction instead of actually fixing the code. 

31 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

There's problems with the game that should be fast-tracked to a resolution, absolutely--this isn't one of them. The only issue here is the blatant entitlement of the undeserving.

 

I agree, many issues with the game I believe should be fixed instead of adding better graphics. There are a lot of mechanics that make Wurm quite outdated, the fighting one being one of the primary problems in game.

 

Btw @Delacroix Who are the underserving in your eyes? Alts? 

 

As for blatant entitlement, every player that pays premium is entitled to content. That doesn't mean players with 10 FS should win scales from dragons or whatever, but once they hit a certain level of playtime they should have equal opportunity to participate in such events. 

 

You somehow have this mistaken perception the counter argument is "Everyone has to win the same from unique hunts. Everyone is entitled to loot." I'm not certain if you're purposely misrepresenting the argument or simply don't understand the core issue. The core issue is equal opportunity not equality of outcome. Finding uniques is down to luck mostly + in-game knowledge of the code on how and where they spawn on certain maps. In a game that has the highest number of RNG mechanics I've ever seen in my life, this is just one more RNG fest that frustrates people. Equal effort in Wurm doesn't mean equal outcome when it comes to uniques. 

 

I'll just wait for the Steam release and see what new players think of these mechanics. I see it pointless to argue with people who probably have a vested interest in keeping the systems as they are right now since they are the ones who benefit from them the most. I'm just sad people bring real life greed and ego into something that's supposed to be an entertaining game. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, elentari said:

Who are the underserving in your eyes? Alts? 

 

Anybody who would rather whine on the forums than take one of the multiple paths to the content. Join a group, make friends and find uniques yourselves, earn the money to just purchase the drops, etc.

 

It isn't rocket science. I promise.

 

 

Quote

As for blatant entitlement, every player that pays premium is entitled to content.

 

No, every player that pays for premium is entitled to their skills being able to increase over the cap. That's it. If you want a participation award, play a different game.

 

 

Quote

 

That doesn't mean players with 10 FS should win scales from dragons or whatever, but once they hit a certain level of playtime they should have equal opportunity to participate in such events. 

 

That's the best part!.. you do have an equal opportunity to participate, and it's nobody else's fault besides your own if you don't.

 

 

Quote

You somehow have this mistaken perception the counter argument is "Everyone has to win the same from unique hunts. Everyone is entitled to loot." I'm not certain if you're purposely misrepresenting the argument or simply don't understand the core issue. The core issue is equal opportunity not equality of outcome.

 

I understand perfectly well what your argument is. However, because there is an equal opportunity for all players to seek out uniques and to take part in them, all that is left are the drops. Ergo, the true complaint is one of access to loot.

 

 

Quote

Finding uniques is down to luck mostly + in-game knowledge of the code on how and where they spawn on certain maps. In a game that has the highest number of RNG mechanics I've ever seen in my life, this is just one more RNG fest that frustrates people. Equal effort in Wurm doesn't mean equal outcome when it comes to uniques. 

 

Yup. Luck. That's why many of your equally... special... brethren are complaining about it "always being the same people" who find them. You can't have it both ways--either it's "wahhh the RNG isn't in my favor" or "wahhhh I'm not good enough." Either way, the answer is simple--either make the effort to improve yourself, or actively try to shift the situation to your favor by making more friends and spending more time looking.

 

 

Quote

I'll just wait for the Steam release and see what new players think of these mechanics. I see it pointless to argue with people who probably have a vested interest in keeping the systems as they are right now since they are the ones who benefit from them the most. I'm just sad people bring real life greed and ego into something that's supposed to be an entertaining game.

 

 

"Wahhhhhh I can't have my welfare gear wahhhhh greeed wahhhhhhhhh"

 

The irony of this is palpable.

Edited by Delacroix
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15 hours ago, elentari said:

Finding uniques is down to luck mostly + in-game knowledge of the code on how and where they spawn on certain maps. In a game that has the highest number of RNG mechanics I've ever seen in my life, this is just one more RNG fest that frustrates people.

Here il do you a solid

celebration map

l13, m16,n17,m15,j20,r18,g14,p22 last but not least q12 are hot spots for drakes and dragons

now you to have equal chance of coming across one your only requirement? sail a bit to celebration and spend a month roaming around the map and you too will find a drake or 2 now what will you do? grab a friend or 2 to pen it and deed it and spend the 5s on it that is needed and do a public slaying that nets you nearly no hide or scale and a blood and maybe a bone or will you do a private one where you and your small group net a big amount of scale and hide and you can get the cost of the deed back and be rewarded for your effort to pen it

mind you the only way to really pen it now is have a mine with a tamed animal in it you try for about 30-40 min to get the dam unique into the mine(make the mine long enouigh) park the tamed animal at the back run towards it make it target the unique you run away no target and pray that the unique will target your pet and not you(small chance) and while that happens have someone already strongwalling the tile while another priest summons you out the moment the wall collapses and the unique is trapped

if the unique looses aggro of anything it will race out of the mine and run back to its spawn location like a maniac if people are nearby it will go mental and go after them vs the one trying to lure it in

3rd last unique we had a bunch of idiots(they really where) show up as the one who found it was asking in freedom chat for help to pen but they kept trying to target it and sit near the mine and stuff as they wanted to kill it there and then and it made us take 5 hours to pen it because they would run into the mine to attack it they would agro it by having it targeted and standing near the mine now these people honestly didnt know any better so we tried to tell them to back off and no target but it just too forever but point is it made us take 5 hours to pen the dam thing vs our usual 10-40 min of finding a spot making the mine and trying to pen it

it really is not that hard to find unique slayings to be able to join even if they are private just be vocal about wanting to join unique hunting groups and just do your part of trying to find them and people will try to include you into the ones they find late game content like uniques should really and i mean really not be about giant red beams and no build zones and everyone has to be there events after all people still wont show up due to time zones and what not
we had a member leave our alliance recently because they got angry they missed out on a slaying that happened at 3am their time but for 90% of the alliance it was a great time yet every unique this person misses out on they complain even the ones they are part of it they complain they didnt get what they wanted from the loot they act like they are entitled to the bone or the tome even though they put in no effort to find or pen the dam things and often show up late to slayings even if they are in time zones where that person is generally online for hours already

so it really comes down to you can not please everyone the devs took away spawn event messages as people where angry a 2 man group was roaming around tracking them down insanely quickly time and time again and causing trouble
they where made harder to pen because people complained about multi month long pens
they took away the spells that let us track unique locations

you can not have it both ways either its easy to find them and we track them all down and pen them within a hour or 2 of them spawning or you leave it like a guessing game like it is now where everyone has a equal chance of running into one if they roam the map

here is something for you guys and girls who say "add a no build zone" you know what that did on chaos for the events with a no build zone? they just walled off the no build zone and dug moats and ruined the terrain completely and you can dam well see that this will happen on freedom to so do you want giant squares of walls all over the place?


but in the end really if you want loot come join us in the fights the finder dictates if its public or private here on cele so be the one who finds them and puts in the effort to catch them cele is a small server its not hard to find them so come on over and if you run them private like we do from time to time then you just became just as "bad" and "evil" and "elitist" as we are so i want to see forum posts from each and every one of you guys that finds a unique over here ❤️ now we will still show up with our mains and priests we will still total 10-15+ accounts in local thats not going to chance so expect not that much loot from the scale and drake part of the slaying

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wipeout mate I totally agree but please, some punctuation

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On 5/30/2020 at 3:58 AM, Oblivionnreaver said:

dragons/drakes drop a set amount of loot to everyone in local and if people are in local without fighting they're effectively taking it from the fighting group, it was decided it was very not cool and good after like 5 years of it happening with multiple staff members doing it and it was easier to give people eviction notices than to make loot only drop to fighters or something idk

 

when we had a dragon penned next to a friends deed my favourite thing to do was tell him to get out of his own deed or i was going to report him to the gms

 

So a stupid a rule instead of an actual fix.  Gotcha.

 

I get the reason.  The reason is good, loot from a kill was going to the noninvolved and active participants were shorted.  Yes, a good reason to do something.  the something that was done, though, is to me antithetical of my reasons for wanting to play in wurm.  

 

The first time I face eviction or banning simply because somebody else doing something else just happens to do it somewhere close by will be my last day in WO.  The rule is antithetical to sandbox.

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29 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

So a stupid a rule instead of an actual fix.  Gotcha.

 

I get the reason.  The reason is good, loot from a kill was going to the noninvolved and active participants were shorted.  Yes, a good reason to do something.  the something that was done, though, is to me antithetical of my reasons for wanting to play in wurm.  

 

The first time I face eviction or banning simply because somebody else doing something else just happens to do it somewhere close by will be my last day in WO.  The rule is antithetical to sandbox.

I think the very idea that one day you'll suddenly be perfectly in local range enough to get a drop from it in the final moments before it dies is so slim it's likely not even worth thinking about.

Most, if not all, of the slay groups will be fair. If it's a genuine mistake they're not going to rush a GM, crying stolen goods. They'll likely just ask for the drop and roll it off (probably, I'm not a spokesperson for any slay group but being reasonable is fairly common in the game)

 

Just apologise, don't be an ass and offer the drop back which you didn't throw any weight behind and you're 99% likely to be totally fine, water under the bridge.

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15 hours ago, Madnath said:

I think the very idea that one day you'll suddenly be perfectly in local range enough to get a drop from it in the final moments before it dies is so slim it's likely not even worth thinking about.

Most, if not all, of the slay groups will be fair. If it's a genuine mistake they're not going to rush a GM, crying stolen goods. They'll likely just ask for the drop and roll it off (probably, I'm not a spokesperson for any slay group but being reasonable is fairly common in the game)

 

Just apologise, don't be an ass and offer the drop back which you didn't throw any weight behind and you're 99% likely to be totally fine, water under the bridge.

 

Probably all perfectly true, with the possible exception that I think if it is just a genuine happenstance, I would not be surprised if the hunters were generous enough to say keep it.  I have found Wurmers very generous if a person is not just trying to take advantage.

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster

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I only done uniques on Serenity where even in the days of 50 players online at a time, there was plenty to go around, and now we bump into them all the time. Also, I am not sure how the loot is distributed today.

 

But I like the ideea of how it is today - it's like another reward for exploring. What you do with the find is up to you. This is the sandbox way, as opposed to the restricted way of having a beam showing it's location and being just a matter of getting people together at a certain hour to clobber it to death.

 

I mean ok, some players will miss the chance to kill uniques. What are they missing in fact (please correct me if I am wrong):

  1. Some bloods (I never used mine)
  2. A chance to get a rarity bone.
  3. Drake scales - so drake armor.
  4. Sorcery stuff.

Points 1-3 can be bought if really desired, and they are supposed to be things that are not that easy to get. Personally, except the rarity bone and maybe some bloods, I'd probably sell the rest anyway.

Point 4 - I actually like the fact that sorcerers are rare. Not like other games where there are wizzies running around shooting bolts and whatnot all over the place. Being a sorcerer is a long term project in WO and I like it that way.

All those points are extra things that are not actually necessary.

 

If you want any of those things you actually have to put some work into it. And it even allows you to decide how to approach this:

  1. Find unique slayings and joing them.
  2. Find uniques yourself.
  3. Get a profession, sell the stuff and buy your wizzy tomes/dragon hides/dragon armor w/e (and really here there are tons of possibilities).
  4. Buy silver from the shop and buy those things.

 

I mean next people will be demanding an instance finder or something like that, like in other games where they kill dragons 10 times a day, and then nag the devs that there is no challenging content in the game.

 

And by the way I have nothing against other games, I played other themepark and sandbox MMOs and they simply have a different philosophy behind them. WO is a sandbox game and will not benefit from making everything easily accessible.

Edited by Idlamn
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22 hours ago, Madnath said:

wipeout mate I totally agree but please, some punctuation

That will require 10000 lingonberries thank you very much but i will throw in one for free just for you.

<3

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Thanks wipeout for the graphic and revealing description of the affairs though I fully agree to Madnath that it is a real pain to read your otherwise very interesting text. At least you learnt to make paragraphs, thousand thanks for that, allows to remember the point where one dropped off due to exhaustion and to resume reading.

 

Some points.

  • The 5s for a deed are somewhat exaggerated. It costs 1.3s inititially and 1s/30 (formerly 1s/28) for every day the deed lasts. As that usually is rather days or at worst 2 weeks for a public slaying I would consider a mean of 2s realistic. Nitpicking, I know.
  • Btw. interesting description how to lure the unique into the mine, a good idea with the tamed creature. Any recommendation which is best (maybe a dommed troll)? So far I only knew the suicide version, letting an alt do the suffering (😎) dropping a tent inside the mine, running past it, spawn there when dead, etc. til strongwall is done.
  • The disadvantage of public vs. private slaying is described correctly. I would like a lot if there were a maybe GM created reward for those who take the pains to do. After all, the private slaying, sadly, also is a huge waste of dearly searched bloods of several kinds. At a private slaying, maybe 10-30 are given depending on the number of alts the slaying team is able to mobilize, at a public slaying it is hundreds. And given the number of bloods I already spent on a few tools only there can never be enough.
  • And beside all else, public slayings are one of the few opportunities to see and meet characters from all regions and servers in person, to admire creative armours and clothing, to learn more about the world. There cannot be enough thereof.
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51 minutes ago, Ekcin said:
  • Btw. interesting description how to lure the unique into the mine, a good idea with the tamed creature. Any recommendation which is best (maybe a dommed troll)? So far I only knew the suicide version, letting an alt do the suffering (😎) dropping a tent inside the mine, running past it, spawn there when dead, etc. til strongwall is done.

 

Also, you can kite it with fresh made alt with the newbie buffs and it going to break and not get aggro in like 3 tiles in a mine

Edited by Tor
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7 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Thanks wipeout for the graphic and revealing description of the affairs though I fully agree to Madnath that it is a real pain to read your otherwise very interesting text. At least you learnt to make paragraphs, thousand thanks for that, allows to remember the point where one dropped off due to exhaustion and to resume reading.

 

Some points.

  • The 5s for a deed are somewhat exaggerated. It costs 1.3s inititially and 1s/30 (formerly 1s/28) for every day the deed lasts. As that usually is rather days or at worst 2 weeks for a public slaying I would consider a mean of 2s realistic. Nitpicking, I know.
  • Btw. interesting description how to lure the unique into the mine, a good idea with the tamed creature. Any recommendation which is best (maybe a dommed troll)? So far I only knew the suicide version, letting an alt do the suffering (😎) dropping a tent inside the mine, running past it, spawn there when dead, etc. til strongwall is done.
  • The disadvantage of public vs. private slaying is described correctly. I would like a lot if there were a maybe GM created reward for those who take the pains to do. After all, the private slaying, sadly, also is a huge waste of dearly searched bloods of several kinds. At a private slaying, maybe 10-30 are given depending on the number of alts the slaying team is able to mobilize, at a public slaying it is hundreds. And given the number of bloods I already spent on a few tools only there can never be enough.
  • And beside all else, public slayings are one of the few opportunities to see and meet characters from all regions and servers in person, to admire creative armours and clothing, to learn more about the world. There cannot be enough thereof.

I know sorry for my walls of text but i just let my brain run with me being self taught in typing reading and speaking english by playing games and watching shows and having dyslexia and adhd the moment i stop to try and do something i normally dont do for example punctuation i loose my train of thought and then i cant remember what i wanted to say anymore it took me quite a bit of work to try and get used to pressing enter a few times to try and split my walls of text up from what they used to be
My old boss always was annoyed at how long it took me to write documentation for the software we made because id go over it so many times to make sure it makes sense and has proper punctuation at the correct points(it is nearly impossible for me to do so when it comes to coma's)

The 5s cost habit comes from the shaker that we used to use

The method is as follows
Person luring the unique gets the unique inside the mine and has a horse/bison/croc attacking the unique and person runs out and shakers the entrance closed if no tamed animal is around use a throwaway alt but now we generally just make longer tunnels lure the unique into the back let the pet attack it then strongwall while standing as far away from the tile as we can strongwall with everyone not moving around while it happens but this has become way harder due to the fact that uniques now hunt for targets above ground
So we resorted to having to tank the unique while we summon soul then as we get the window we make our pet target the unique and disengage then accept tp after the strongwall is done if no one wants to get a shaker
But we still prefer to use shakers where possible so the 5s price is generally there unless we get lucky and find a nice tanky pet/existing mine system that we can kite in

Also some day i will add coma's and the rest of the punctuation where needed some day ;)

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13 hours ago, wipeout said:

SNIP *
Also some day i will add coma's and the rest of the punctuation where needed some day ;)

 

Sorry, I just can't read through stuff like that.  However, don't be too bothered about commas, the "random comma" seems to have become a very common thing these days, where people type a long sentence and figure it should have a couple of commas at least somewhere, so just stick them wherever.  The result is worse than a sentence that just runs, because it makes you pause in reading, sometimes right in the middle of a phrase.

 

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On 6/1/2020 at 2:10 PM, wipeout said:

you can not have it both ways either its easy to find them and we track them all down and pen them within a hour or 2 of them spawning or you leave it like a guessing game like it is now where everyone has a equal chance of running into one if they roam the map

 

Well, if there is a way to put it in a nutshell, I think that's it.

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On 3/19/2020 at 7:23 AM, Ekcin said:

sorry, -1

 

It is up to everyone to hone the combat and other related activities and strive to get into one of the unique hunter groups, or even search on her/his own, and call for support from seasoned hunters on success. I even learnt that they are acting very generously in such cases (not myself but a guy I met who had spot a drake).

 

Granted, I was too lazy so far to roam the servers for uniques, too much to do else. But I am sure it would not be impossible (other than all loathe me now for my rallying for rifts 😛) to get into a hunting group when patient enough.

 

If you spend all coins you earn for premiun and are not willing to spend a single RL penny on Wurm I fail to see why you "deserve" a unique armour. I am paying my upkeep out of my earnings, pay my sub for me and my priests in RL money, and am saving for a scale ingame. It is feasible and in no way unfair. If it would be that easy to get unique resources they would not be unique anymore.

they don't act generously at all, i was at a rift on deli once, clearly showed my combat skills there, yet not a single word about the slaying that happend just minutes after the rift ended and i was on my way to the boat they clearly want to make it a secret and don't even call it for ppl to be in local for the blood let alone hitting the thing for loot. 

EDIT: this post was before i learned that scale/hide drops to everyone in local when the dragon is slayed. after learning about that it deosn't seem as bad of an image for those that do it in secret but it really changes my image of how wurm is managed nowaday's and where is it headed.. wish i saw about this before the RTM changes and just cashed in and quit for good.

Edited by viruskiller

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On 6/1/2020 at 11:10 AM, TheTrickster said:

 

So a stupid a rule instead of an actual fix.  Gotcha.

 

I get the reason.  The reason is good, loot from a kill was going to the noninvolved and active participants were shorted.  Yes, a good reason to do something.  the something that was done, though, is to me antithetical of my reasons for wanting to play in wurm.  

 

The first time I face eviction or banning simply because somebody else doing something else just happens to do it somewhere close by will be my last day in WO.  The rule is antithetical to sandbox.

so when i was raising dragons and trying to organize kingdom wide slayings on epic the dev team sneaked in the update that reduced the hide drop(just before we were about to kill them without any patch notes) with the mentality of making the slayings a public thing. now after i got over that and back to the game i get to read this BS.... they seem to not make they'r mind about how they want they'r game to be played and almost pushing me to quit again as many others did and making me not feel sorry if this game dies because i'm 100% sure they did it to themselves.

PS: it was totally a case of "only those hitting the dragon got hide/scale" and the rest got only blood when they first implemented blood drops so i don't see any reason behind the rule and them making it so it drops hide to non participants as well.

Edited by viruskiller

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there are groups who seem to all have the scale drake armour ,      wts 350s a pop to buy nope,    they are very good at what they do finding dragons well i hope thats how they do it ,id say its not easy to get in to these groups ,so just go moon metals just as good ,i to have never seen a dragon yet in 2 yrs playing and i go everywere for rifts ,makes u wonder

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3 hours ago, viruskiller said:

they don't act generously at all, i was at a rift on deli once, clearly showed my combat skills there, yet not a single word about the slaying that happend just minutes after the rift ended and i was on my way to the boat they clearly want to make it a secret and don't even call it for ppl to be in local for the blood let alone hitting the thing for loot. 

You're talking like people were there to scout people out or looking for people to take. Can people not go to garbage like rifts and just do their thing without you expecting them to watch combat tab and think "gee this guy hits mob like everyone else"?

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On 11/7/2020 at 4:02 PM, Madnath said:

You're talking like people were there to scout people out or looking for people to take. Can people not go to garbage like rifts and just do their thing without you expecting them to watch combat tab and think "gee this guy hits mob like everyone else"?

first comment was before i learned about the ultra mega  stupid change that made drake/scale drop to non participants that just happen to be in local. i guess that gives them enough reason to make it as secret as they wish.

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