Give Me A Reason To Stay

[ChampagneDragon 971]

I have played Wurm (obsessively) for four years now. I have a very well skilled main, a priest who is pretty good (vyn 92 channeling, many other skills, benediction) and two other priests (mag and fo) who are middlin (100 faith 60ish channeling). I have three deeds, one very large, a farm deed, and a market deed shared by my alliance (in my name, alliance effort)

 

I have loved every minute I have played. Sometimes it's been infuriating. I remember making my first fence. I grumbled the entire time. Fail after fail, but the stubborn me kept at it, and when it was done I felt such a rush of pride. I did it! I persevered through. Now I don't think twice making a fence, but that first one... I'll always remember it.

 

I built my first house. I worked and worked to build a nice 2x2. By the time I got the first six walls up, making all those planks, I was able to expand it to a 2x3! Ohhh I was proud of that house. It still stands. Each small accomplishment was just that: an accomplishment of perseverance and old fashioned stubbornness. 

 

The first time I faced a spider and killed it myself I felt like I should take out an announcement on the forums. Now I take out champ trolls without thinking twice.

 

I spent time grinding up skills so I could do what I wanted to do.

 

Yes, I also occasionally sold silvers. Not often, and the things I did in Wurm were not done with the intention of amassing silvers to pay bills, but the idea that maybe the crops I grew BECAUSE I LIKED TO gave me extra silvers I didn't need for upkeep was always a nice UNIQUE thing to Wurm. Right now I have almost 2g sitting in my various characters banks. So I look at my fields and think *why?* I have 99.5 farming. With the three deeds I can easily support them for a year or more (10.9s/3.5s/1.2s mo) Before there was always the thought that if I wanted to I could convert those 2g to RM and pay subs or maybe even treat myself to a movie night. 

 

Now what I see are all these changes that make Wurm "different". Not the different I fell in love with. I see catering to the new players by making failures a thing of the past. I see armor getting buffed to where you don't have to fear mobs. As much as many would disagree, I see the Wurm that I love evolving into a game that is no different than any other survival game I have played in the past. You "get good", accumulate, and then what? NEXT GAME PLEASE. And the easier they are to "get good" the shorter time for that next game to enter the picture. So all these changes being implemented to make life easier for the new players are the very thing that will kill the game. Look at H1Z1, The Forest, or any other survival type game....

 

Please tell me why I'm wrong here. Tell me what I am not seeing? 

[Jaz 2,663]

For me mainly - people. Small community for sure, even some who I liked leaving with the changes. Still, I feel like wurm is another home world for me.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Here's one...  The game needs experienced players to make up the top-tier that bring along the little ones into their own experiences in Wurm.  Previous generations in life always had it harder.  That's the way it is in real life and Wurm is similar in that respect.   Think on it that way and maybe you will find reasons enough to stick around.

[Spolmit 620]

Jaz is 'spot on' when he talks about the community but of course people also play Wurm for the challenge and enjoyment.

 

If I may suggest, change is often a difficult thing to cope with in our everyday lives. We usually love the warm safety-net of the familiar. Change to some is a cold place where we immediately think negatively about what has been changed.

 

I try to embrace the changes that are made, it has taken a long time for me to embrace the 'new' cooking aspect of Wurm but I am now totally enthusiastic about it. The new fishing aspect is still something that I have to attend to but I will surely do that. 

 

In my opinion, if you really try to be positive about these and other changes you have a far better chance of eventually enjoying the new challenges that they bring you and your characters. You may just find that one day you finally understand what the changes were all about- at least I hope so! Don't forget you will always have the community to help you through any issues that you may have.

 

I hope that you can stay and give Wurm another chance to prove what a great game it is.

[ChampagneDragon 971]

1 minute ago, Spolmit said:

 

In my opinion, if you really try to be positive about these and other changes you have a far better chance of eventually enjoying the new challenges that they bring you and your characters. You may just find that one day you finally understand what the changes were all about- at least I hope so! Don't forget you will always have the community to help you through any issues that you may have.

 

 

I've remained positive. Sadly I told some when all the major changes began that the next thing they would do would make things no fail/way easier to grind just to cater to the Steam crowd. i was told... nooo.. that's not the Wurm way..

 

Enter today...

[Jaz 2,663]

Yep challenge is the other thing. Strange challenge sometimes. Be the one of those who has the most unique kills. Be one of the top 10 shieldsmiths. Etc. Etc. Silly yes. Stupid gamer I am for sure. Still gives the feeling of accomplishment which I missed for example on the fast WU server which I abandoned after a few months.

[Jaz 2,663]

2 minutes ago, ChampagneDragon said:

I've remained positive. Sadly I told some when all the major changes began that the next thing they would do would make things no fail/way easier to grind just to cater to the Steam crowd. i was told... nooo.. that's not the Wurm way..

 

Enter today...

Honestly low ql stuff is no more a thing that is marketable. If those changes make new starters stay, these changes are welcome by me.

[Yldrania 1,424]

There will always be times when you feel things are getting better and times when you feel things are getting worse but in the end of the day, I'd hate to see you go. Is that a reason for you to stay? I don't know. But feel free to talk to me if you have problems... One awesome thing about Wurm is that part of the community that just connects and wants to be friends and help each other out ❤️

[Chakron 1,023]

Waiting 50 minutes for a forge to heat up then failing 80% of your smithing actions and turning the metal you collected in 38 second mining actions into useless scraps was good for the game and built character.

[Muse 2,216]

I think you have been negatively affected by a lot of the recent changes, and I think you are quite justified in feeling more than a little put out about it.

 

Although we all understand the reasons behind the company's recent decisions, I think many people - especially the big bulk producers - have been somewhat 'guarded' in their responses.  Comments like 'it won't affect me that much' or ' I didn't really do it for the RMT' or 'It will just change the way I play the game a bit' may be genuine, but it may also be a way of putting on a brave face and not rocking the boat, particularly if they want to keep playing in any manner.

 

Whatever folks say about it, and whether they did it, didn't do it, or just thought about doing it, RMT has always up until now been there in the background.  A kind of promise - no lets face it - an actual promise, from the company to everyone playing the game.  The knowledge that everything you did in game could be an investment which could be cashed in way down the line has now been turned on its head.  Basically everything we have done, now has no real world value, and similarly everything we WILL do now has no real world value.  It's a culture shock we all have to endure even without leaving our deeds.

 

I believe (and I know some others will fiercely disagree) is that the established bulk sellers will start to say - "Why should I?" - "a few less silvers won't affect me that much", "I can't do it for RMT so why bother" and "I've just changed the way I play, I don't do bulk any more" and leave it for somebody else.   Just as you are saying, even if you didn't cash in the silvers after every sale, the change is bound to have sapped much of the incentive out of tending 50k crops or standing chipping 50k bricks and so on.  When the existing stocks run out, who will sell bulk?  For some reason I don't see this expected huge influx of steam newbies wanting to sign up to chip 1000's of bricks, or maybe I'm wrong?

 

The recent priest changes also really angered a lot of established players who had invested heavily in player deities, not just the priests themselves but the whole support economy of crop growers, veg choppers and so on.  You have a right to be angry, farming was your reason to play, and it has been devalued.

 

You have a right to voice your concerns with the changes in the game.  A lot of players who have fought their way to the top - or to achieve any decent skills will feel sickened that folks that come after will have it so much easier.  This is a natural response.  We feel cheated.  Some have called it 'dumbing down'.  The change seems to devalue the achievements we have and the ones we had hoped to achieve.  We might ask what's the point of striving on?  Of course we understand the needs of new players and understand the company's priority in making things accessible for new players, but we wonder if there will be anything left in the the new version of the game that could  retain the same customer loyalty and devotion that the game was known for in the past.

 

I am sorry if you read my post and ask yourself why I didn't give you a reason to stay.  I think looking at your playstyle and the things you did in the game, it is unlikely to be the same things that inspired you to play before.  You might need to find new reasons to play.  It is easy to understand the company and their perspective "It's a game - you play it to have fun"  but we are now expected to throw the 'fun' we were used to out the window, and play their new vision and interpretation of 'fun', and it will take some time to get our heads around.

 

With the majority of established players either subdued or exiting the game, I guess it will make it a lot easier to make the move to steam - and it will go to steam, change is inevitable.

 

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent; it is the one most adaptable to change.” — Charles Darwin, British naturalist.

 

 

[Jaz 2,663]

4 minutes ago, Chakron said:

Waiting 50 minutes for a forge to heat up then failing 80% of your smithing actions and turning the metal you collected in 38 second mining actions into useless scraps was good for the game and built character.

I can see the point in that - but I'm happy I'm too noob to see those all...

[Cipacadrinho 390]

Wurm Online is a business.

 

When the player base drops to having 150  people average on many of which are alts then your revenue will be dropping too.

 

So you have to make a choice: die or attract more players and ... the key here: retain a good chunk of them so that the revenue goes back up.

 

So after 15 years of being able to sustain themselves without having to make compromises to acomodate a wider range of players, they are more or less forced to for survival so they make changes only to have the veterans be upset now.

 

You go into a shop. You could eat. You see a banana. You pay for the banana. You eat the banana. That is it then,  the vendor or the banana tree does not owe you anything more.

 

You play wurm. You pay prem for a month or more. You play the  game. That is it you had a 1 month contract you fun 20+ skill they moneyz. Nobody owes anybody anything.

 

They dont want anybody to leave the game they don't make the changes to upset you why is nobody getting this.

 

But with no income there will be no development and with no development the game will die so then you don't even have the option to play the character you worked so  hard on.

 

How woud you feel if a new game that you love came up and you would start playing it only to get  pm in that game's chat that reads:

 

"Hi! This is Retro... uhm.. we at Wurm Online .. we wanted to know why you leave us? We had so many good times together, why are you not loyal to us and decide to make changes. Uninstall this come back plx"

 

And you are sitting there wearing your pijamas cup of coffe in one hand muttering in disbelieff then typing: Dude is not you, is not me, i just .. can i try new things? can i play with other people too? Sometimes? I still love you and i always will im not trying to hurt you guys please understand"

 

How would you feel if then Wurm Online Official Twitter would tweet:  Hmm .. the's ho's ain't loyal.. you know who you are. Love, R.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Cipacadrinho

[Jaz 2,663]

2 minutes ago, Muse said:

Whatever folks say about it, and whether they did it, didn't do it, or just thought about doing it, RMT has always up until now been there in the background.  A kind of promise - no lets face it - an actual promise, from the company to everyone playing the game.  The knowledge that everything you did in game could be an investment which could be cashed in way down the line has now been turned on its head.  Basically everything we have done, now has no real world value, and similarly everything we WILL do now has no real world value.  It's a culture shock we all have to endure even without leaving our deeds.

 

With RMT gone I've "lost" several thousands of euros considering stuff I've accumulated during the years I played Wurm and could turn into RL cash.

Still I feel a kind of relief RMT is gone - I'm not a clairvoyant guy to see the future but my feeling is that it will clear out quite some aspects and issues that shadowed the gameplay. Makes sure now that Wurm is a game and not a form of RL work. I understand that sandboxes tend to be alternative worlds and escape routes from reality or whatever, still funny is that changes did not work out for me in Second Life, I left it after the gambling industry was banned there by US law enforcement - but I feel the situation is largely different in Wurm - Wurm is much more a game to enjoy than an alternative existence to struggle in for me. Definitely I stay, I wanna see what changes the new ruleset will bring. I'm a bit concerned about the steam release but we'll see how it unfolds.

 

2 minutes ago, Muse said:

.  When the existing stocks run out, who will sell bulk?  For some reason I don't see this expected huge influx of steam newbies wanting to sign up to chip 1000's of bricks, or maybe I'm wrong?

We may see prices go higher, there is a revenue where I might as well jump into the bulk business...

 

2 minutes ago, Muse said:

[....] Of course we understand the needs of new players and understand the company's priority in making things accessible for new players, but we wonder if there will be anything left in the the new version of the game that could  retain the same customer loyalty and devotion that the game was known for in the past.

 

If Wurm can grab a bunch of new players - and I'm not really afraid to see the influx of flocks of the "minuteman" players as Wurm still will be a slow game - we are still on the winning side.

 

Only advice I could have to all the established players who are afraid/unsure/pissed off about the changes is to keep the main accounts. Likely the prices are not in par of the ingame value now and keeping them will still let the way to get back if - although you all don't see it that way now - things go bright for the game.

[Holar 1,484]

1 hour ago, Jaz said:

For me mainly - people. Small community for sure, even some who I liked leaving with the changes. Still, I feel like wurm is another home world for me.

 

This was a big reason for me when I played, the people. I was one of the "wurm will never be the same when *insert here* happened". I feel the majority of the playerbase is seeing what people who have been around for years have seen, change that effects a certain playerbase directly and there is nothing you can do about it except take it to the chin. 

 

I played a game called Eternal Lands for years. Account selling/trading was against the rules and was a permanent ban for anyone who sold accounts or currency. The game thrived for years because you had to work for certain skills etc. Well recently it was changed where account sales were made legal for both ingame currency and characters for euros or usd. Unfortunately the game has seen a huge drop in player count due to this. People scam left and right causing headaches for the staff and players because they had poor preparation and rule set. So instead of coming to a common ground with the players they made a knee jerk reaction and banned every player/character that was sold or traded. That being said, I'm for the current change that Wurm wants to make for account trading and currency sale.

 

You have to give yourself a reason to stay or leave. No one else can convince you otherwise. 

[TeeeBOMB 668]

2 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

. I worked and worked to build a nice 2x2.

 

lol. My first house was a 1x2. I was surprised how many danged planks it took. … and i'm still living in it 🙂 . Well, I did add some to it, but u can still clearly see my main 1x2 still there.

 

I started when u did , same generation. Wurm would be unfunner the fewer Champagnedragons there are in it 😉  I would like to see ur 1st ever 2x2 one day (its now on my bucket list).

Edited February 17, 2020 by TeeeBOMB
more et's

[ArthurHawkwing 176]

Personally, I tried a game once that claimed you could make a ton of money in game, it was called Planet Calypso. What croc of shyte that game was. WURM was and is still cool, i did like the fact you could actually make a little money from it, but the player base dwindled and accounts sold, so new players instantly took over making money instead of grinding away. Traders were another easy money source for those who camped them at starter deeds or happened to find them or buy them on the smaller servers and hut them off from the rest of the world. That is all going away and in a way I am glad for some reasons. But i do disagree with being able to sell silvers.

But:::::;;

WURM sin't supposed to be about making money, its a game we should all enjoy for the various aspects. Granted the new owners want to and need to make money to keep it running. I have always been outspoken that the Developers are blinded by catering to one group of gamers instead of catering to the wide play styles of gamers. For a game to survive its needs a strong player base, more than just crafting to do, it needs some growth, it will need some PVP, it will need some adventure/questing/dungeon ruins to explore.

I think we forget that there are many play styles of Gamers and games that survive need all those play styles. I loo at games that are still strong like Illyriad, DDO, WOW, Guild Wars, Fallen Earth, Ultima Forever. All those games have a good mix of PVE, PVP, crafting, things to explore, etc. I know many Wurmians are frustrated with the changes and boo when people want new content, but I think we forget games are like a grocery store or restaurant. At some point we are going to get bored with the menu and what the store carries. We have to see that not everyone likes fish and chips, or eating pizza very night just isn't for everyone. For WURM to grow, it needs to have a well rounded menu of things to do or our palates are going to stale.

[Ecrir 887]

11 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

I see catering to the new players by making failures a thing of the past.

 

What is wrong with that? We want more players to stick around, right? When I tried Jackal all those constant failures on the most basic of stuff were incredibly annoying. We know it gets better with time, but new players dont know that, it just gives them an unnecessarily terrible early time. I'm glad they are doing away with that, just as I'm glad that they did away with iron scrap years ago, etc. Small adjustments like these have been made many times over the last decade, so this is hardly new and really doesn't affect the gameplay for us veterans much anyway, but it does have a good chance of getting new players to stick around more. So I repeat, what's wrong with that change? Sounds like a great thing for everybody.

[wipeout 1,355]

Wurm today vs wurm at start of gold 2 where 2 different beasts in terms of difficulty to do anything from plain simple survival south of the starter deed to making your own place in the mess that is the starter town to finally leaving to set out into the vast wide world that took 3-4 hours(if you didnt die) to get anywhere

To me it really does seem like the current dev team is to hang up on "we must make the game modern and make it more appealing to new players" while they go around and piss off older players with that mindset and it makes me worried for the future not just this year but a few years down the track

Wurm really has gone away from a few big updates a year that where addons to "lets add some tiny things and take away established features" lately and that just breeds anger and sadness and that will flow from the game onto the forums and you end up with topics like this where people just feel defeated and feeling like the wurm they fell in love with is going through its teenage stage and changing rapidly

Go back 5-6 years and that wurm there was a happier wurm all around the community was bigger the players where happier everywhere and people just loved and enjoyed the game but these last 3 years? its just been bleeding players after bad decision after bad decision time and time again broken lies false promises straight up favoritism for entire groups has killed off entire kingdoms on chaos and epic alike unfair treatment on support cases has killed off alliances on freedom
All the while the devs hand the wurm players 1 hand of wheat while breaking into the players home and stealing 2 loafs of bread away every so often

Wurm really needs a good solid period where all new features are put on hold just straight up no new half baked ideas that piss of people and just focus on fixing what is there optimizing the client and the servers being more open and clear with the community and working together with the community with polls run ingame and on forums(of course put restrictions in place for who can vote) to start deciding on what possible projects to work on even if that means we get to hear 1 year ahead of time that free flowing water is going to be added(as an example) it would give players time to prepare and for smaller features give a few months heads up

Imagine this a year or 2 go by after the steam release and wurm is back down to its 2k active accounts with around 500ish online at most and a list of idea's gets posted up of things that are being worked on or are going to and the community gets to vote on what project the devs should focus on the most and 2nd most and so on based on what order people think in those projects should go(granted all this is just as a suggestion from the community to the devs) and we know that within 5 years these things will be added that way people would be happier


Anyway all i hope is that i can still be playing wurm in 20 years time if not longer so i really hope they dont end up chasing everyone away in hopes of catering to a crowd that never shows

[Ekcin 2,402]

Arthur, I met you in a couple of public slayings, and enjoyed your participation turning out fatally for you but apparently not darkening your mood (fighter's attitude). I liked the shelter buildings you had erected en route to glasshollow (sadly decayed away nowadays) when I went to GH on feet as a beginner. I liked your announcements of new canal buildings in the northwest linking Glasshollow Fjord to the ocean. 

 

Though we never had much to do with one another, I would be sad to see you go. If you do anyway, all the best.

[elentari 2,660]

People tend to forget one well documented truth about games that not only have RMT but actively promote it (aka second life). 

 

That simple truth is that players turn the game into a marketplace that becomes shadier every year. From bitcoin transactions, to money laundering, to a lot of stuff that not only ruins gameplay but makes the game simply pointless, RMT is human greed injected into a game made for fun. If you allow RMT  you basically turn WURM into amazon or etsy. Or another of 100s of freemium games where people sell boosts/packs for RL money between each other.

[Ekcin 2,402]

7 minutes ago, elentari said:

.If you allow RMT  you basically turn WURM into amazon or etsy. Or another of 100s of freemium games where people sell boosts/packs for RL money between each other.

You forget that Wurm had indeed RMT implemented and even encouraged for about one and a half decade. It worked to some extent, and the fact that it was done in the open held gold bots and crime away better than any surveillance, even at times when ingame economy was burgeoning more than today with several thousand players more.

 

It always had its downsides, of course, account trafficing attracting incompetent toxic players, mass sales with optimized productivity (highest ql and enchant tools, highest skill specialized producers) pushed small scale and lower skill suppliers out of the market even faster than the game was maturing, and much more which encouraged a passionate anti-RMT faction in the community. But, in fact it neither attracted crime, nor money laundering (in fact, I count people believing AML, GWoT, GoD were directed against money laundering, terrorism, crime, and substance abuse under the same category as adults believing in Santa bringing gifts or the easter bunny laying eggs). Love it or hate it, but RMT in Wurm worked to a wide extent.

 

It did not prevent the decline of participation in the game of course, and it was not sustainable due to the decision to launch the game on steam. Valve's non RMT policies are directed towards Valve's profits, allowing cashing out to steam wallet, never to cash.

[Ecrir 887]

29 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 Valve's non RMT policies are directed towards Valve's profits, allowing cashing out to steam wallet, never to cash.

 

Or do they have those rules because they'd need to do a lot of extra bookkeeping and rule compliance to keep financial regulators of various countries happy in relation to things like money laundering? It's a lot more complex than you make it sound.

[Flubb 773]

9 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

Or do they have those rules because they'd need to do a lot of extra bookkeeping and rule compliance to keep financial regulators of various countries happy in relation to things like money laundering? It's a lot more complex than you make it sound.

 

Exactly my point. With a catalog of games as large as Steam, it's likely something you don't wanna touch with a ten foot pole.

It's undeniably also convenient for their profits though, I think it's fair to say that both applies to some gradient. It's not black or white.

[Ekcin 2,402]

29 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

Or do they have those rules because they'd need to do a lot of extra bookkeeping and rule compliance to keep financial regulators of various countries happy in relation to things like money laundering? It's a lot more complex than you make it sound.

Definitely no. They designed their policies around the milennium when AML was not a thing. It may be handy for them now that Linden Labs has issues that they have not. But the aim was to create a closed environment where players put their games in and were trapped. A smart business scheme, not that I love it.

[nitram20 90]

The most ironic part is is that this new update will do absolutely nothing to attract or keep players.

 

People will still leave in droves once they built their first house and the grind sets in

Edited February 17, 2020 by nitram20