Retrograde

Valrei International. 094

Recommended Posts

And that's fine, all the info was in this post. 

 

The stream was just discussion about the post and answering a few questions raised there. 

 

Ostentatio is also answering questions in this thread as well. 

  • Cat 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wurmians:  We need more players!  The grind and fails and high difficulty is gonna make the Steam launch fail!

 

Also wurmians:  You're making it less grindy!?  Removing fails on certain item creations? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! IT'S BEING DUMBED DOWN!  We don't want no filthy casuals!  Keep wurm niche and elites-only!! 

 

*Sigh*

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

Wurmians:  We need more players!  The grind and fails and high difficulty is gonna make the Steam launch fail!

 

Also wurmians:  You're making it less grindy!?  Removing fails on certain item creations? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! IT'S BEING DUMBED DOWN!  We don't want no filthy casuals!  Keep wurm niche and elites-only!! 

 

*Sigh*

I think the flaw here is that you're trying to imply the players are one group with a like mind. I have never held that first opinion and almost certainly never will. Whereas the advocates of that likely do not agree with my opinions at all either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Finnn said:

these thanges are far from any balance... it forces play in customer's throat, now I have to be mainly this and side-good at that... but not good at both, it's no longer my personal choice, it's a forced play by faith laws..

what are your thoughts on being forced to be vyn to skill effectively before the changes

  • Like 6
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

Because everyone wants to spend a lot of time repairing everything in deed maintenance...

I like repairing, was a shame when it became a deed perm and I could no longer help/hlep, ho hum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Noevi said:


Imo just put it on a curve. Maybe its a bit too harsh with basic mats in the beginning. Make it a bit easier. The reality truck hitting them in the face once they venture out into skills that don't have this arbitrary thing set will make things feel janky. Just making these items easier instead, shortening the timers at 1 skill.

50% to make 1 plank at 15 second timer with fresh character is really harsh when you need 80 to make a 1x1 house.
100% at 15 seconds is still slow and doesn't mesh with the rest of the creation of items in the game imo.

 

yes, make the curve a bit easier in the beginning.. 

  • lower the difficulty for some items, so fails are less common.
  • shorten the base timer a bit
  • Improve the effect of tools a bit at the start (maybe a straight shift rather than a curve)
  • Increase off-deed decay for lower ql buildings/carts

A few thoughts that might accomplish somewhat the same thing, without the appearance of caving, and without as much inconsistency in the game.

 

JS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arimus said:

It's worth watching Retro's video that provides some additional explanation on the changes. (If you are pressed for time you can watch it at 1.5 or even 2x speed.) 

 

Retro's twitch video from earlier today

I refuse to twitter or watch a stream to get news THAT SHOULD BE ON THE FORUMS.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ChampagneDragon said:

I refuse to twitter or watch a stream to get news THAT SHOULD BE ON THE FORUMS.

It is on the forums, we discussed this thread 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stream was pretty minimalistic in giving information that isn't here. There's pretty much nothing on the stream that isn't here already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall I'm pleased with the changes at best, and merely puzzled with some parts at worst. I can appreciate the intent to make the early-game less tedious, as well as the more diverse and interesting benefits to make Vynora not the default follower's choice.

 

I am still concerned about the way Rites are cast, even if they've been changed considerably. It is still a crap-shoot finding the opportunity to cast or link to a rite in the first place, and so the significant +5 spell power perk upon completing that journal is limited to a small income of fortunate players. I would see the democratization of Rites into a public scheduled event, much like that of Rifts. Where said Rite would complete at a set time, provided certain requirements are met.

 

I understand this is not within the scope of recent or future changes pending the Steam Release, but since we're on the subject of Quality of Life it seems appropriate to mention.

 

As I continue on to the follower changes, I feel an increasing need for clarification as to whether follower benefits are exclusively found while within the domain of your chosen deity, and whether the domain mechanic should be made more flexible somehow. Priest benefits appear to be much more mobile; and some Rite benefits manifest within the relevant domain, which seems fair. I suppose with all these exciting new perks and changes, it seems deflating and restrictive that one would need to stay within a boundary to make full use - especially so for Mag's combat-related skillgain bonuses in an activity that typically requires plenty of traveling.

 

The main way to circumvent that is by building an altar on site, but that is not terribly practical. Sacrificial Knives could see more use somehow with this in mind.

 

Quote

20% slower food/water bar drain (was +25% food gained when eating)

This is a subtle but welcome change; it makes the benefit more tangible as making food is not a particularly challenging affair. As a priest of Fo, I approve.

 

Quote
  • 5% shorter action timer when building walls 
  • 10% shorter action timer when paving roads
  • 7.5% shorter repair timer

As others have posted, I find myself struggling to see much benefit. They make sense lore-wise, but in terms of gameplay they seem to have a fleeting impact.

Off the top of my head (with a little thinking, I promise!) are a few alternate benefits with similar spirit that would hopefully have lasting impact for followers:

  • QL bonus when building walls and fences
  • max slope bonus for roads, fences, and walls
  • Plan taller buildings
  • +1 tile "reach" when building

And, for a little bit of fun,

  • Text limit bonus when writing on paper (since Vynora's all about that knaaawledge).

But if any of these are too much to ask for, perhaps they could at least be framed/reworked so their benefit is easier to realize at a glance, such as:

  • One less second per action when building, repairing, or paving
Quote

To encourage long-term diligence instead of “grinding” them and to encourage all followers to pray from time to time instead of relying on mass-praying priests, only prayers and sermons that could cause valid Faith gains increase deity favour

I appreciate the concept, but I feel that followers need a more immediate incentive to continue praying after they are no longer receiving Faith. Rites simply do not happen often enough, and some simply do not care enough, to justify that kind of diligence.

 

Perhaps the cap to Faith could be moved to 50, so that one who does not plan on becoming a priest right-this-moment can do so later on without worrying about missing out on Faith gains.

Or perhaps the effective domain range could be increased for that particular follower, provided they meet a minimum number of praying per day.

At the very least, some feedback for the individual follower on the status of the Rite's charge level would be appreciated. So they can better know the extent of their dedication rather than hoping and praying (heh) that it pays off at some point later on.

 

 

That is all for now. I hope this was helpful feedback.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hoseph said:

As I continue on to the follower changes, I feel an increasing need for clarification as to whether follower benefits are exclusively found while within the domain of your chosen deity

 

 

None of the new follower bonuses require being within your god's domain. This isn't new, though; the old ones don't require it either.

 

The new special server-wide effects of rituals, like Libila's skill loss on death bonus and Magranon's meteorites, are meant to work for everyone and don't require being in that god's domain at all, or even following that god. For instance, during Rite of Death, everyone on the server gets the death skill loss bonus, and anyone can mine the meteorites from Ritual of the Sun. The idea was for rites to have some effects that everyone can appreciate, or at least notice, not just the followers and priests of that particular god.

 

5 minutes ago, Hoseph said:

As others have posted, I find myself struggling to see much benefit. They make sense lore-wise, but in terms of gameplay they seem to have a fleeting impact.

Off the top of my head (with a little thinking, I promise!) are a few alternate benefits with similar spirit that would hopefully have lasting impact for followers:

  • QL bonus when building walls and fences
  • max slope bonus for roads, fences, and walls
  • Plan taller buildings
  • +1 tile "reach" when building

 

I get what you mean, but the new Vynora bonuses were meant to be minor bonuses for theme and flavor, rather than anything too serious. Otherwise, we likely would have considered ideas a bit more similar to the kind you're mentioning. It's meant to be more on par with Fo and Magranon's +1 mouseover info range bonuses, and to give some benefit to Vynora's "road" and "building" thematic elements.

 

7 minutes ago, Hoseph said:

And, for a little bit of fun,

  • Text limit bonus when writing on paper (since Vynora's all about that knaaawledge).

 

I like this idea in principle, but with inscribing paper being a very limited feature (small character count, many characters disallowed, etc.) I'm not sure how likely we are to include small bonuses for it at this time.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So over all this seems like another ok+ month of changes and a few new additions. Keep up the good work to all of you guys - and i truly mean that.

 

There is however a certain bittersweet taste to these things that make the game more easy.

If wished i can make a suggestion to it, but doubt it will get far.

 

Here goes;

Making the game easier will not make people from Steam stay or like the game more. The challenge is brilliant and unique to this game. Keep it hard.

The new UI advertised for years now would have made the game to gold on Steam, but sadly that was scrapped and now the rushed quick-fixes comes in.

Now it seems like youre all trying to make those late changes in a hurry to please the new crowd, but i dont think it will work. The feel of the game, the first impression, the wonkyness of the controls and the UI is still the big flaw of this game - not the difficulty.

 

Everyone who plays games loves challenges, please dont insult your playerbase by making it easier.

 

In short;

Dont make the game easier to play. Make the difficult game better to play.

 

 

- N

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

None of the new follower bonuses require being within your god's domain. This isn't new, though; the old ones don't require it either.

Well, that's news to me - and I'm embarrassed to call myself a priest! I appreciate the clarification.

 

10 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

The new special server-wide effects of rituals, like Libila's skill loss on death bonus and Magranon's meteorites, are meant to work for everyone and don't require being in that god's domain at all, or even following that god. For instance, during Rite of Death, everyone on the server gets the death skill loss bonus, and anyone can mine the meteorites from Ritual of the Sun. The idea was for rites to have some effects that everyone can appreciate, or at least notice, not just the followers and priests of that particular god.

I feel like I understand the changes more clearly now, and I am happy to hear this too.

 

Regarding the idea of all-inclusive server-wide benefits: it would appear that Holy Crop has a rather minor bonus compared to Vynora's fast boats and Magranon's shiny new meteorites. I can't say that I really mind that much, it just seems like a discrepancy.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

I get what you mean, but the new Vynora bonuses were meant to be minor bonuses for theme and flavor, rather than anything too serious. Otherwise, we likely would have considered ideas a bit more similar to the kind you're mentioning. It's meant to be more on par with Fo and Magranon's +1 mouseover info range bonuses, and to give some benefit to Vynora's "road" and "building" thematic elements.

 

I understand now, thank you.

 

10 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

I like this idea in principle, but with inscribing paper being a very limited feature (small character count, many characters disallowed, etc.) I'm not sure how likely we are to include small bonuses for it at this time.

 

It's true that writing is pretty lackluster. I would enjoy an expansion on player-written books but that seems like it would have superficial returns on development time and beyond the scope of current development at any rate. I was going to propose better quality when writing Almanac and Archaeology Reports, but as you've already pointed out it would maybe go beyond the need for theme and flavor.

 

Thanks for your time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

The new UI advertised for years now would have made the game to gold on Steam, but sadly that was scrapped and now the rushed quick-fixes comes in.

Now it seems like youre all trying to make those late changes in a hurry to please the new crowd, but i dont think it will work. The feel of the game, the first impression, the wonkyness of the controls and the UI is still the big flaw of this game - not the difficulty.

Long way to go before Steam becomes a reality, working on the UI is part of that for sure.

 

While it's not the completely new UI overhaul that was Budda's project, it is aimed at improving the issues within this current UI and adding new UX features as well. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

While it's not the completely new UI overhaul that was Budda's project, it is aimed at improving the issues within this current UI and adding new UX features as well. 

Will it fix/improve the compatibility for 4k? We shouldn't have to use High DPI scaling override to get the game to run on an actually usable resolution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MrJonnyboy said:

Will it fix/improve the compatibility for 4k? We shouldn't have to use High DPI scaling override to get the game to run on an actually usable resolution.

Yes it will, scalability is still an important part of it

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

In short;

Dont make the game easier to play. Make the difficult game better to play.

 

Does removing failures from the lowest difficulty bulk items really make the game that much easier to play?

When I started playing, mining actions were 1 minute long, large anvils weighed 50kg and 100% of the material was lost on failure. Was that dumbing the game down to remove that? 

Dumbing the game down for me would be like if skill gain was increased by 10 times, or house walls only required one build action/material.

  • Like 14
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

We're looking into adding Vynora missions back to PvE servers again.

 

Why PVE only?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Retrograde said:

As previously stated, traders will be reworked to no longer pay out silvers based on kingdom coffers and ratio, but instead reduce upkeep of the deed they are on by a fixed percentage. They will reduce deed upkeep by 20% and instead of being limited by a tile range will simply be one trader per deed. 

 

Just to clarify :

- there's a limit to 1 trader per deed, so no having multiple traders that will 'stack' the discount (2 traders = 40%)

 

- will the 20% discount count on deeds with a 1s upkeep as well? or will the minimum payable upkeep always be 1s? (meaning if the current deed upkeep is only costing 1s and you add a trader will you still pay 1s or will it be reduced to 80c?)

 

- will moving a trader be restricted to the server it is on or can it be moved to a deed  you own on another server?

 

- will you be able to move them in the future to another deed? or if you've placed one you need to be sure you'll be living there for ever if you want the discount, cause if you want to move they will stay behind?

 

- will you be able to move them around on the deed that they are on? or will you have to design around them if you want to change your deed in the future?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

Fo

  • +10% QL gain when improving cloth items

 

I guess i am Fo now.

 

Any changes to Rite of Sping?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wulfgar said:

 

Does removing failures from the lowest difficulty bulk items really make the game that much easier to play?

When I started playing, mining actions were 1 minute long, large anvils weighed 50kg and 100% of the material was lost on failure. Was that dumbing the game down to remove that? 

Dumbing the game down for me would be like if skill gain was increased by 10 times, or house walls only required one build action/material.

Ive never mentioned "dumbing down". In fact, i dont think any of these updates are "dumbing" the game down.

I dont think improvements are bad either, and i made pretty sure to point that out in the first couple of lines in my post. :)

 

The halter rope is a brilliant example of a very nice improvement. Its a good qol addon, but its still hard to make. A noob will still have to use 4 ropes or simply get it from other players until skilled enough to make it.

 

Now, you could just have taken the easy route and make it so that ropes could lead 4 animals. That would be an improvement aswell. But it would make the game simpler. Not worse, but simpler. A skilled player and a noob would both have a rope - nothing more to do on that front.

Instead you took the effort and introduced something that brought more complexity to the game. I love that little touch.

 

My point was all along that the game dont need to be easier to solve to be embraced by new players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it quite funny how some ppl dont read everything and then get wrong understanding how things are.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see the details on the trader changes, looking forward to getting one for my Xanadu deed, and maybe expanding the deed a bit after that.

 

Also great to see the changes to item creation failure for a lot of early items. That stuff really annoyed the heck out of me on Jackal, good riddance.

 

As a vyn follower I'm also glad to see some balance tweaks are happening there, as Vyn felt like a no brainer to be a follower of for the skill gain. Well deserved nerf there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite nice additions overall.

A bit concerned about the new player adjustments, won't this make "noob sheds" stay in game for a much longer period of time after the players have left. How about making it a buff that you can get from an NPC in starter towns that last for 2 hours?  This way at least if you want to build further out in the wild you will need to gain some skills first.

 

The other thing I think could use some more balancing is the diety bonuses. You say it's just for flavor and quite minor. But if that means everyones favorite flavor is Magranon it doesn't really add flavor, it removes it... Not a big deal, but why not make all dieties about equal in terms of usefulness.  Check the list of bonuses and make sure the usefulness is about the same,  for example  10 less food and drink, that is effective at all time, very useful. 10% faster wall building, useful but only very seldom.  Make all dieties have 1 or 2 static bonuses and a couple of situational bonuses.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wilczan said:

 

Why PVE only?

 

There are 3 types of kingdoms, so to which one would vynora contribute and why would this kingdom win scenarios at double rate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.