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Retrograde

Valrei International. 094

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1 hour ago, Batolemaeus said:

 

Yes, by filtering out all the new players. Let's make the attachment rate even worse to preserve your precious starting area…

The inability for a new player to create long lasting structures in their first couple of hours is not the reason very few people enjoy this game when they first start. Twist my words however you like, the point stands. 

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One big problem with the rites change is the need for priests to grind prayer to 70 for Journal and the need to do a global cast for journal.

 

So now you are forcing priests to continually pray in order to level their prayer skill with most of those prayers having no effect on the Rites pool.  Priests should always contribute to the pool, but maybe followers are limited to their contribution?

 

Kodos

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5 hours ago, Kodos said:

One big problem with the rites change is the need for priests to grind prayer to 70 for Journal and the need to do a global cast for journal.

 

So now you are forcing priests to continually pray in order to level their prayer skill with most of those prayers having no effect on the Rites pool.  Priests should always contribute to the pool, but maybe followers are limited to their contribution?

 

Kodos

 

Either that or perhaps the prayer grind needs to be adjusted together with the coming changes. 50 instead of 70 sounds a lot better if only 5 prayers a day have any point.

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34 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

Either that or perhaps the prayer grind needs to be adjusted together with the coming changes. 50 instead of 70 sounds a lot better if only 5 prayers a day have any point.

 

Or simply fix the ridiculous gains. The goal is shockingly easy to do on Epic, while absolutely unreasonably dull and soul crushing on Freedom. I know that Epic is supposed to be faster but the difference is just jarring when it comes to prayer.

 

Also give prayer some tangible utility if you make people grind that high...but I'm being a broken record here...

Edited by Flubb
overusing 'ridiculous', though it's the best fitting word for this situation
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6 hours ago, Jore said:

The inability for a new player to create long lasting structures in their first couple of hours is not the reason very few people enjoy this game when they first start. Twist my words however you like, the point stands. 

 

Building a shed is one of the first things a new player is directed to do. I have not twisted your words in the slightest, they were just that incredibly transparently stupid.

 

I remember Newtown. It was better than the curated sterile empty wastelands of today.

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25 minutes ago, Batolemaeus said:

 

Building a shed is one of the first things a new player is directed to do. I have not twisted your words in the slightest, they were just that incredibly transparently stupid.

 

I remember Newtown. It was better than the curated sterile empty wastelands of today.

Yikes bud

Yes, it's a good idea for a new player to build a shed and a cart. No, it's not a good idea to allow them to build the former in say, their first 2 hours of gameplay. A shed is immovable by other players, so when that new player quits due to not being interested or invested in the game, it becomes an obstacle that effects current and other new players for upwards of a month. The difficulty of building their first home is not the "filter" that drives away new players as you suggested. There are plenty of other, much simpler things with the game that does that. It's just not mean't for them. It is however, the "filter" that protects current players and other new players who actually stick with it from having to deal with any spammed structures.

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I wonder why a lot of folks seem to have an idea that if something provides you with advantage, you're absolutely forced to do the said thing. Don't want to do the prayer, fine, don't do it.

 

 

According to people who have done it already, prayer and global cast barrier is totally worth it for +5 cast power. If its not worth it for you, then.. why do you bother even?

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4 hours ago, Jore said:

A shed is immovable by other players, so when that new player quits due to not being interested or invested in the game, it becomes an obstacle that effects current and other new players for upwards of a month. 

 

If you don't like other players impeding on an area you haven't deeded it's time to expand your deed.

 

Shantytowns were a lovely part of Newspring that I'd love to see return. Though I probably won't, as shantytowns can easily be torn away on a PvP server anyway.

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14 hours ago, Jore said:

The inability for a new player to create long lasting structures in their first couple of hours is not the reason very few people enjoy this game when they first start. Twist my words however you like, the point stands. 

 

You are correct, its actually the top heavy economy that a new player will never have an impact/stake in which was mostly caused by account trading and selling, material abundance over time is inevitable no doubt but even more so from the high level accounts not dying/leaving with the original owner. Why participate in a world you wouldn't have a chance of impacting? Its kinda the point of a MMO and wurm right now lacks it and they cannot fix the old servers now, it is too late for that regardless of what the devs tell you guys. The new steam server will have a much larger population than OG servers will ever again and you can mark my post and come back later to quote this. It will be suicide for the devs to ever merge the soon to be more popular steam server with the rest and they never will.

Edited by Jeston
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On 2/20/2020 at 3:02 PM, elentari said:

Wurm needs more fun and challenges and less grinds.

 

 

More fun and challenges, with much less grind would be wonderful !  Maybe Enki's wonderful creative imagination is needed here?

 

On 2/19/2020 at 4:12 PM, Ostentatio said:

I'm familiar with some kinds of missions going stale and expiring. Feedback on this is genuinely helpful.

 

Even on the smaller servers, trying to find a "traitor rat in the NW" for example, just will not happen.  Some of Exodus "do a ritual" missions recently do not say with what the ritual must be done with.   And again trying to find the special spot can be bothersome - unless our wonderful new map keeper, Solmark, has these listed?

 

Also any confirmation yet about Vyn missions ?   Especially since there are now only 4 deities (tg!).

 

So glad that newbies' early lives will be made a bit easier, it might help with Wurm's very poor retention rate.

 

Edited by Baloo

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19 hours ago, Jore said:

You're missing the entire point. Making it easy to build structures of any kind early on will lead to a new player making sheds and fences despite not being invested in the game. They then quit, leaving the mess to be dealt with by active players. 

The time investment involved in wurms progression early on creates a kind of filter protecting (most) of the starter areas from too many abandoned shacks being spammed about. Making it easier to construct these leads to messes that can't be dealt with by the people who actually play the game. Go to Havens Landing and look how many abandoned carts there are. Now imagine if those were actual buildings and fences taking up tiles all over the place. 

 

Actually...

 

Most early player mess comes from corpses and partially completed projects (terraforming gone wrong).

 

Unsightly structures generally come about because of how hard good looking ones are to make.

 

Also, fun fact.  My first "home" was a 3x3 hedged area with a locked gate and locked chest/BSB/fsb.  That place lasted years, not weeks.  Should we ban new players from planting hedges too?

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Jeston said:

 

You are correct, its actually the top heavy economy that a new player will never have an impact/stake in which was mostly caused by account trading and selling, material abundance over time is inevitable no doubt but even more so from the high level accounts not dying/leaving with the original owner.

 

Account selling is disallowed from the start of next month so old accounts will start to die off.

 

37 minutes ago, Jeston said:

 

Why participate in a world you wouldn't have a chance of impacting? Its kinda the point of a MMO and wurm right now lacks it and they cannot fix the old servers now, it is too late for that regardless of what the devs tell you guys.

 

You can impact the world though? You don't need a ten year old account with maxed out skills to build a village or to landscape, or to organize a hunt or any amount of other things.

 

37 minutes ago, Jeston said:

The new steam server will have a much larger population than OG servers will ever again and you can mark my post and come back later to quote this. It will be suicide for the devs to ever merge the soon to be more popular steam server with the rest and they never will.

 

Nah. The steam server will have plenty of accounts with 100 skill in various things within the year. They'll leave it separated for a while so people can have their fresh starts and whatnot but it won't be too long until there's skill parity and at that point I fully expect there will be ways to travel in between.

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7 hours ago, John said:

 

If you don't like other players impeding on an area you haven't deeded it's time to expand your deed.

 

Shantytowns were a lovely part of Newspring that I'd love to see return. Though I probably won't, as shantytowns can easily be torn away on a PvP server anyway.

That's not what I'm arguing here. 

I agree, however there is a difference between active players coming together and forming a small community and new players being able to jump in, plant a structure in the first few hours before they quit the game. I've been involved with players who live in the outskirts of Havens Landing in the past, I'm not speaking from just my personal gripes here lol

 

4 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

Actually...

 

Most early player mess comes from corpses and partially completed projects (terraforming gone wrong).

 

Unsightly structures generally come about because of how hard good looking ones are to make.

 

Also, fun fact.  My first "home" was a 3x3 hedged area with a locked gate and locked chest/BSB/fsb.  That place lasted years, not weeks.  Should we ban new players from planting hedges too?

 

 

Right! Corpses, abandoned carts and storage units. These're the messes we see now around Havens for example, which can be worked around and if they prove an issue past that they can be simply moved by a GM. No harm to any party. The argument that initially started this conversation was that a new player shouldn't have to work for hours to construct their first shed. Thing is, if they didn't have to put in so much effort, then those sheds would replace some of those abandoned carts etc. and cause actual problems for players. 

That's great and fine as I'm sure you put in a lot of work to do so, but allowing brand new players who aren't invested or even sure if they're interested in playing long term to plop down buildings almost immediately isn't a good idea. 

Edited by Jore
fixed word
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On 2/17/2020 at 8:55 AM, Kasumi said:

 

Just to clarify :

- there's a limit to 1 trader per deed, so no having multiple traders that will 'stack' the discount (2 traders = 40%)

 

- will the 20% discount count on deeds with a 1s upkeep as well? or will the minimum payable upkeep always be 1s? (meaning if the current deed upkeep is only costing 1s and you add a trader will you still pay 1s or will it be reduced to 80c?)

 

- will moving a trader be restricted to the server it is on or can it be moved to a deed  you own on another server?

 

- will you be able to move them in the future to another deed? or if you've placed one you need to be sure you'll be living there for ever if you want the discount, cause if you want to move they will stay behind?

 

- will you be able to move them around on the deed that they are on? or will you have to design around them if you want to change your deed in the future?

 

 

 

I think my cloaking device was on.... Any answers on these @Retrogradeplease? ^_^ 

 

and another question actually - even if the trader bonus don't stack, is it possible to have more than one trader on a deed at all then?

if there are more than 2 on a deed atm is one just going to go poof?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Lisimba said:

 

Account selling is disallowed from the start of next month so old accounts will start to die off.

 

 

You can impact the world though? You don't need a ten year old account with maxed out skills to build a village or to landscape, or to organize a hunt or any amount of other things.

 

 

Nah. The steam server will have plenty of accounts with 100 skill in various things within the year. They'll leave it separated for a while so people can have their fresh starts and whatnot but it won't be too long until there's skill parity and at that point I fully expect there will be ways to travel in between.

 

 

I see you live in fairytale land, is it fun there?

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:55 AM, Kasumi said:

 

Just to clarify :

- there's a limit to 1 trader per deed, so no having multiple traders that will 'stack' the discount (2 traders = 40%)

 

- will the 20% discount count on deeds with a 1s upkeep as well? or will the minimum payable upkeep always be 1s? (meaning if the current deed upkeep is only costing 1s and you add a trader will you still pay 1s or will it be reduced to 80c?)

 

- will moving a trader be restricted to the server it is on or can it be moved to a deed  you own on another server?

 

- will you be able to move them in the future to another deed? or if you've placed one you need to be sure you'll be living there for ever if you want the discount, cause if you want to move they will stay behind?

 

- will you be able to move them around on the deed that they are on? or will you have to design around them if you want to change your deed in the future?

 

 

You will not be able to add more than a single trader to a deed, the ones that already have multiple will stay, but the upkeep discount will not stack.

 

The minimum upkeep is 1s and it will not go below that even with a trader.

 

Very unlikely that they'll be able to be moved between deeds in future, but we might add something that'll allow to move a trader within its current deed. This will not come with this next update though.

 

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14 minutes ago, Samool said:

 

You will not be able to add more than a single trader to a deed, the ones that already have multiple will stay, but the upkeep discount will not stack.

 

The minimum upkeep is 1s and it will not go below that even with a trader.

 

Very unlikely that they'll be able to be moved between deeds in future, but we might add something that'll allow to move a trader within its current deed. This will not come with this next update though.

 

 

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up - and that would be great if one could be able to move them around on deed in the future - can be a bit of a bother to plan around them :P 

 

Do you know yet if they will be able to be moved to another server or are they 'stuck' on the server they are currently on?

 

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4 hours ago, Kasumi said:

 

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up - and that would be great if one could be able to move them around on deed in the future - can be a bit of a bother to plan around them :P 

 

Do you know yet if they will be able to be moved to another server or are they 'stuck' on the server they are currently on?

 

The trader moves will be same server only.

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7 hours ago, Samool said:

The trader moves will be same server only.

 

Thank you Samool :)  

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If i have a deed with 913 days of upkeep in it and this new trader system hits, will that be extended by 20%?
(is it retroactive)

Edited by Steveleeb

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8 minutes ago, Steveleeb said:

If i have a deed with 913 days of upkeep in it and this new trader system hits, will that be extended by 20%?
(is it retroactive)

 

The days of upkeep is a calculated value, for your convenience. It divides the amount of money the village has by the amount it costs per day and that's your number of days left. A trader will lower the amount it costs per day from the moment that change goes into effect, so yes it will extend your days of upkeep though it's not right to call it retroactive. It's similar to changing the size of your deed or hiring/firing spirit guards.

 

Also it will extend the number of days by 25%. Each month will cost you 20% less, which is 4/5th of what it used to cost, so you save 1/5th of what it used to cost. But you only need to save that 1/5th for four months to get 4/5th of the price of an old month, enough for the new price of a full month. Or in other words, you get 5 months after the change for the amount it cost you to have 4 months before the change: 25% extra time.

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If deeds with upkeep of 1silver do not get discount, does that mean that deed costing 1.10silver a month gets -20% discount if there's a trader on it? (imagine trollface emote) but yea.. pretty easy to make the 1s deeds cost less as is, idk why there's limitation to 1s than... but ok....wogic.. not a big deal to pop 5-10 copper more how it is.

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8 minutes ago, Finnn said:

If deeds with upkeep of 1silver do not get discount, does that mean that deed costing 1.10silver a month gets -20% discount if there's a trader on it? (imagine trollface emote) but yea.. pretty easy to make the 1s deeds cost less as is, idk why there's limitation to 1s than... but ok....wogic.. not a big deal to pop 5-10 copper more how it is.

 

The very smallest deeds actually have an "actual" upkeep of considerably less than one silver a month, it's just capped to a minimum of 1 silver after the calculations are done. You can add tiles to them and the effective upkeep remains at 1s/month until the actual upkeep passes the cap, only then do you start paying more than 1s/month.

 

I figure the 1 silver deeds will have the discount applied, the result is just still below 1 silver a month and therefore remains capped at the minimum of 1 silver and you won't see a difference. Similar deal with a 1.10 silver/month deed, it gets discounted to .88 or whatever/month of actual upkeep, and that then gets capped to 1s/month effective and that's what you pay.

 

Of course you could then add some more tiles to the deed without affecting upkeep.

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