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Madnath

Anti-WoA spell

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10 minutes ago, Archaed said:

but adding this spell would make it an absolute necessity in skilling. 

has many downsides, such as less affinity chances (goes off tick amounts not tick sizes), can skip over rarity windows, if you don't have stamina easy to overshoot it and get no skillgain, doesn't work with sweet spot imping and similar mechanics, timers over 30 seconds only give 30 seconds of skillgain so saying it's a necessity is a bit of a reach

 

if it would be an absolute necessity for skilling, then by that logic wounds for grinding would be an absolute necessity for skilling, and it's hiding such things behind convoluted mechanics that make little sense

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2 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

if it would be an absolute necessity for skilling, then by that logic wounds for grinding would be an absolute necessity for skilling, and it's hiding such things behind convoluted mechanics that make little sense

That's my point though. 

 

Using wounds for grinding is an incredible min/max effort, that few do in order to make their grinds the most efficient they can be, but the work/reward is not enough to be enticing. 

 

Making it a spell would mean it becomes accessible without the difficulties, and thus goes from being an absurd edge case that only a few people do it, to something that everyone has to do. 

 

You know yourself because you use this mechanic of wounds for certain grinds, as does madnath. 

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One can just as well argue that putting COC on a tool of a certain quality level is min maxing. Do you want to spend 200 hours to grind a skill to 90 or 110 hours? 

Or putting WOA on a saw to make planks faster. Is that min maxing? 

 

Player behavior tend to skew towards efficiency more often than not. We find the path of least resistance. And that's because Wurm is a game that sucks a lot of hours in your life and we don't want to waste more than necessary when doing the same repetitive action 5000 times. 

 

Is that min maxing? Or just a sane and efficient approach to save time? The line is blurry to me. 

 

As for Archaed's perspective, dunno man but Wurm has a lot of hidden mechanics that when uncovered, I can't help but ask "Why was this hidden and not on the wiki on a dedicated "skilling page" when it clearly impacts the fundamental mechanics of Wurm?". 


I've known dozens of people who catapulted charcoal lumps to lower their ql just to get better metallurgy gains. Or people leaving ql 5 exquisite meditation rugs in a chest so they can have long repair timers for skillgain. Or using a ql 1 anvil to make locks for locksmithing ( I found about that one waaay to late at one point) 

 

There are so many secrets in Wurm that it's still mind boggling to me that they aren't on the wiki when they affect so much of our gameplay. 

 

I don't find it refreshing when much of the accurate info I've gotten from Wurm is from people who've read the code and shared it with the players whereas the wiki is outdated, incomplete and has errors on it.  Just my 2 coppers. 

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1 hour ago, Archaed said:

That's my point though. 

 

Using wounds for grinding is an incredible min/max effort, that few do in order to make their grinds the most efficient they can be, but the work/reward is not enough to be enticing. 

 

Making it a spell would mean it becomes accessible without the difficulties, and thus goes from being an absurd edge case that only a few people do it, to something that everyone has to do. 

 

You know yourself because you use this mechanic of wounds for certain grinds, as does madnath. 

 

I'm sorry but jumping off a slope to get a wound once every half an hour or so is probably one of the most minor cases of minmaxing there is in this game. I only grind wound when I do Animal Husbandry too, and that's because the game takes bugger all stamina for groom actions while also dumpstering the skillgain you can get with those fast timers later on.

We already have situations where people use climb mode to keep their stamina going back up. Anti woa just makes it a bit less dumb and more accessible, frankly

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being pulled out of any task one sets on self is never fun, a spell like this would help in that regard.

 

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+1

 

This would stop me having to run up 16 flights of stairs to hurl myself off the top of a building...

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having to explain this to anyone is pretty sad to be honest and shows a poor reflection of understanding simple game mechanics and quality of life

+1

Edited by platinumteef

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I'd personally love to have drinking alcohol be more effective at changing the difficulty of actions as opposed to adding something else to put on a tool.

 

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43 minutes ago, Blacklotus said:

I'd personally love to have drinking alcohol be more effective at changing the difficulty of actions as opposed to adding something else to put on a tool.

 

 

I would like that so much more than having another spell. Gives another practical use for beverages to make it worth the effort, and it's intuitive that drinking alcohol would make actions slower/more difficult.

Edited by Vorticella
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11 hours ago, Vorticella said:

 

I would like that so much more than having another spell. Gives another practical use for beverages to make it worth the effort, and it's intuitive that drinking alcohol would make actions slower/more difficult.

I think this would deserve its own thread then as it’s a similar but separate suggestion.

 

+1 to the original idea 

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I see the advantage of slowing things down in order to get more skillgain, but I don't think that making it an enchant is the right way to go about it. You might not always want a tool to be slower.

 

I think a better approach would be to give players a means of slowing down and concentrating, either to boost chances of success, or quality of the item they're working on, or increase skillgain. I've suggested this before, in the form of alternate ways of spending sleep bonus, but essentially the point is that concentration would be a nice mechanism to have. A debuff spell for tools just doesn't feel right.

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1 hour ago, Sheffie said:

I see the advantage of slowing things down in order to get more skillgain, but I don't think that making it an enchant is the right way to go about it. You might not always want a tool to be slower.

 

I think a better approach would be to give players a means of slowing down and concentrating, either to boost chances of success, or quality of the item they're working on, or increase skillgain. I've suggested this before, in the form of alternate ways of spending sleep bonus, but essentially the point is that concentration would be a nice mechanism to have. A debuff spell for tools just doesn't feel right.

 

coc = skiller

slow + coc = skiller
woa + coc nonskiller

 

idk we've been working around woa being faster action but less gains for long enough that I don't see why it'd be hard to not work around anti woa

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bump I changed to pop and now my mine timers are stupidly low and I don't want to start doing grindwounds because I want to stop being a poop sockin min maxxer

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Bump!! Was told to Updoot this. Still a +1 from me. Would rather a spell then having to hug a thorn bush. 

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I will always want to have the fastest possible action timers, as I have so much Wurk to do. So, if you're done with your extremely high ql, high woa tools, i'll put them to use :) Feel free to send them to me in-game (SFI) anytime. And thanks!

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Seems a solid idea. Adds variety to enchants and option to skilling. 

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We should be able to just do things slower. Requiring a spell to achieve this is too much. 

 

No - to the anti-spell.

Yes - to just letting us do actions slower, nothing special required to do so.

 

edit note, I'm aware of all the gimmicks to essentially keep stamina low which makes things slower. But we should not have to do silly gimmicks to go slower.

Edited by joedobo

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12 minutes ago, joedobo said:

We should be able to just do things slower. Requiring a spell to achieve this is too much. 

 

No - to the anti-spell.

Yes - to just letting us do actions slower, nothing special required to do so.

 

edit note, I'm aware of all the gimmicks to essentially keep stamina low which makes things slower. But we should not have to do silly gimmicks to go slower.

 

I feel like a spell is the better option for its general (semi) flexibility, its ability to create a new market and variety to casts done and such.

Totally open to the idea of just letting us do things slower if you can think of a way you'd implement it though.

 

As a side if you're using an anti-woa spell it should ignore caffeine for the sake of balance

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Adding a spell does contribute to market. The biggest thing I have against the spell is it makes sense that a crafter could choose to do things slower. You don't need magic to go slower. In real life if you want to go slower, you just do it. Now if you wanted to go faster and not suffer the negative consequences of haste makes waste, well you need magic for that.

 

A spell wouldn't be more flexible than letting us do thing slower. Choosing to do things slower would have instant and infinite configurability to tweak things. Whereas with a spell one has to spend a bunch of money or effort to make it. And it will only be good for one configuration. You can't easily change a spell without going through the spell casting cycle.

 

How would I implement it? That's kind of a waste of time to address as Wurm isn't going to listen to me. but KISS tells me to just add a mechanic that lets us control our max stamina. With such a system I could INSTANTLY and EASILY set my stamina to 20% of max. Or whatever level the player wants.

 

On a side note, if this someone how gets added, can the 30 second action time hard cap on skill gain be removed? Why does it matter if someone wants to do 60 second long actions?

 

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