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nekoexmachina

Access to "shared" toons

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Can we please get an official statement on amount of people that can have access to the toon, and also on the general rules surrounding this?

 

Rules (linked in top bar) say this:

 

Quote

Shared accounts
A ) Code Club AB does not condone sharing or contracting accounts.
B ) You enter into any sharing agreements totally at your own risk.
C ) We do not offer support or service for sharing and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss.
 

 

So haven't been updated yet.

 

The post which announced the incoming rule changes has stated:

 

Quote

Your account may be shared on a personal basis (i.e. a family member or a close friend) but sharing your account with multiple people will be against game rules.

But its needs clarification in form of exact statement with exact number of people who can access the account without repercussion, as this statement only hints at the amount of people who can have access, without actually saying it.

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I agree with you that we need a more precise wording of that new rule concerning account sharing. I would be in violation of that quoted wording myself in 4 cases.

 

1. A character originally made by an alliance mate for sermons, now used as storage alt.

2. Another character originally made for sermons by another alliance member, now used as storage alt as well.

3. Two characters made by an alliance mate, now used as mayors for two alliance-owned deeds, one deed being the Vrock Landing Market&Inn near the starting town, the other deed being an alliance-run boathouse, chapel and pub.

 

Family member: does not apply for any of them.

Close friend: depends entirely on the definition of what a close friend is.

Multiple people having access to these characters: yes, they do.

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Oh yes, sermon accounts too. So let's say I make 10 sermon alts and prem them up for *reasons*. This are not skilled characters, and reasons outlined in the news posting is that it breaks economy by providing access to crafter/caster on on-demand basis. So can I share details of those 10 accounts to all of my alliance because they all want sermons and I don't want to run 10 alts on my pc 24/7?

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1 hour ago, nekoexmachina said:

But its needs clarification in form of exact statement with exact number of people who can access the account without repercussion, as this statement only hints at the amount of people who can have access, without actually saying it.

 

Quote

Your account may be shared on a personal basis (i.e. a family member or a close friend) but sharing your account with multiple people will be against game rules.

 

Multiple => more than 1. Seems pretty exact to me.

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14 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Multiple => more than 1. Seems pretty exact to me.

 

1 hour ago, nekoexmachina said:

Your account may be shared on a personal basis

contradiction.

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1 hour ago, Eobersig said:

I agree with you that we need a more precise wording of that new rule concerning account sharing.

 

Well, the trouble is that we have the law, the spirit of the law... and a large grey area that should be fixed before the new rule is inforced.

 

Law now say : you can't share accounts... What is the reasoning behind it? Is the spirit of the law to prevent people from running high ends toons 24/7? If so, fix the law/rule to reflect that better.

 

One situation have been shared multiple time... management of deeds / upkeeps / kingdoms. It might be a good time to see that the management role can be given to more than citizens of a deed. A toggle for : can view upkeep none/citizens/alliance/kingdom - personal roles could do the trick for the first mentionned one. Maybe makes the manage citizens role trully available to allies / persons instead of just citizens too in the permissions. And create a similar function to PvP titles akin to king... maybe viceroy... able to manage the kingdom permissions given to trusted members.

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And the precise amount of IP addresses allowed to access the account in how much time in how many days or years.

 

Some people travel, would be a shame to get banned because your work sent you to 4 countries within a month and some new staff member thinks your sharing accounts.

 

Also, would love transparency as to how sraff are going to prove all this...

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45 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

Also, would love transparency as to how sraff are going to prove all this...

Requesting this specifically, yep

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Quote

Your account may be shared on a personal basis

but

sharing your account with multiple people will be against game rules.

 

I dont see any contradiction there, pretty straight forward. Can share it, just not with multiple people. Only thing that needs clarification is what is considered "multiple people", i guess more than 1, just like Ecrir said.

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1 hour ago, Nomadikhan said:

Also, would love transparency as to how sTaff are going to prove all this...

 

Trouble is : if they reveal how they plan to prove this, it will allow everyone planning to "cheat" the system to do it more efficiently.

 

I also fear that in the witch hunt that will most likely happen, more innocents will get caught for various reasons than people trying to abuse the game mechanisms... with the real abuse behind the new rule being undefined properly yet... as posted above.

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2 hours ago, Nomadikhan said:

And the precise amount of IP addresses allowed to access the account in how much time in how many days or years.

 

Some people travel, would be a shame to get banned because your work sent you to 4 countries within a month and some new staff member thinks your sharing accounts.

 

Also, would love transparency as to how sraff are going to prove all this...

We've stated multiple times already that travel or dynamic home ips are not an issue. The system will not be solely based on IP addresses.

We won't be releasing the details on how we detect account user changes because that would only encourage skirting the new rules, as Odynn mentioned. This is not a rule unique to Wurm at all and many other online games already enforce it succesfully.

 

No need to panic about some witch hunts, any rulings that happen will be considered carefully.

 

New rules are not finalized yet and as such we cannot share them right now, but we'll make sure they make the situation as clear as possible (including the definition of multiple people), and ultimately they likely won't affect most Wurmians.

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5 hours ago, Samool said:

New rules are not finalized yet and as such we cannot share them right now, but we'll make sure they make the situation as clear as possible (including the definition of multiple people), and ultimately they likely won't affect most Wurmians.


I hope that for the sake of those of us who share a lot of toons with alot of people we will hear it atleast a few days before these new rules go in so that we can divide up our stash of toons and track down previous owners and properly purchase them vs borrow them

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this will especially be needed if you want pvp to thrive. Sharing a kingdom based priest has been considered essential, no one person can keep up with the demands of a kingdom esp if pvp picks up.... I believe if this isn't addressed pvp is permanently dead in wurm, although I know some esp non pvpers probably don't see the reason for multiple people using a kingdom priest or at least having access to it.

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If it works at all like WU then it will be based on steamid rather then ip address. Family relationships can be set within steam as well. Makes sense that this is likely how they will try to base it at least initially. Steamid's always trace back to some form of payment so the connection to a real person is likely stronger as well.

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9 minutes ago, Nappy said:

If it works at all like WU then it will be based on steamid rather then ip address. Family relationships can be set within steam as well. Makes sense that this is likely how they will try to base it at least initially. Steamid's always trace back to some form of payment so the connection to a real person is likely stronger as well.

For steam it really isnt a issue as steamid will be used during login most likely anyway to log into said character and sharing steam account with others isnt allowed(even family share uses your id instead of the other persons id to play a game they have access to)

This again does not address how gcg and cc will handle it but that isnt what is important here what is important is that the staff team finish the setting up of what is considered allowed and not allowed(too many) people to access 1 account and so on(something they should have done in the first place before announcing it >.>)  as right now its vague and it can mean i could say that necroe is my family and thats that he and i should by that be allowed to share accounts as we are family as we said we are and cc has no way to confirm this at all so their current wording on what they have given is vague and does not give enough information to tell us players what is and isnt fine

We all understand that bicycle accounts between 20-30 people wont be allowed but with them not stating a specific limit we wont know if 2 people is fine or 3 or 4 or 5 yet they also stated that deed holder toons arent allowed to be shared and such so we have this weird "yes you can share your account with a friend or family" but then also "no you cant share this account" kinda scenario that leaves confusion and that is what we hope that they will clean up and be specific about and thus hope that they will hurry up and come to a finished set of rules preferably before they make the new rules come in


Reason why a lot of us want this clarity isnt related to finding ways around it its purely to know if we have to track down old wurm players who's accounts we currently use on loan and buy them or if we are fine if 1-2 people share an account and such and right now we cant so we keep asking this everywhere where this comes up :)

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To be honest, I think people are flipping their bananas over this topic without reason. As being someone who has had an account banned unfairly by staff, I can say I do have experience with this sort of thing. My understanding of the rules is simple:

 

If you let your bud you play with often use your account to imp his swords, no one is going to come after you to ban your accounts. If your alliance mate asks you to let him borrow your account for a couple hours so he can build himself a knarr, no one is going to come banning your account. If your son logs onto your account to transfer a tool from yours to his, no one is going to ban your account. Simply put, I don't think anyone from the GM team has the time, effort or inclination to witch hunt people over simple stuff we have been doing for decades already.

 

What will get you in trouble is stuff like this: 

 

15 hours ago, Eobersig said:

1. A character originally made by an alliance mate for sermons, now used as storage alt.

2. Another character originally made for sermons by another alliance member, now used as storage alt as well.

3. Two characters made by an alliance mate, now used as mayors for two alliance-owned deeds, one deed being the Vrock Landing Market&Inn near the starting town, the other deed being an alliance-run boathouse, chapel and pub.

 

The concept is simple: Blanket access to accounts is prohibited. Putting your log info on a forum so your entire alliance can log into your account is going to get you in hot water. Stuff like kingdom accounts on pvp servers (like the kingdom priest) or everyone in a village having access to the mayor will be seen as a violation of the rules. That is the gist of it.

However, I honestly don't see anyone going after you for  sharing your account for minimal stuff. Even Triple A mmo's out there don't bother themselves with such a meaningless act, why would Wurm? The reason I believe its there is because if it becomes a problem and they need to get involved (Kingdom Priest gets stolen or used for exploit and you go to them crying because of it) they will just ban the account and be done with it.

 

Don't share you account and you're in the clear. That's understood in nearly every other MMO out there. What they are saying in this ruling is basically "Don't share your account but we won't be paying attention in case you do." wink wink nudge nudge.

 

Now stop asking for clarification because all you're doing is forcing them to say "No sharing, period". That is something they can do, and then you'll ruin it for  the rest of us.

 

Get the hint.

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Sure does seem like sermon alts come up frequently when discussing the sharing of characters. Would be nice if there was an alternative mechanism to sermons that could eliminate the issue.

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I am actively working on laying the ground work on the new rules regarding this.  I hope to have something to show soon.

 

 

edit...  or I WILL have something to show soon actually.  It is surprisingly not that easy to write it!

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I don't think account sharing should be a thing, to be honest.  It is one thing to have a wife or child ho on and grind some bricks, but having multiple game friends share an account for imping or casting just seems like a really bad idea.  I think it works better in Wurm than most any other game, because of the small, tight community, but the risk is high and will just get higher as Wurm enters the Steam cesspool (which I am looking forward to).  Why not just make it a hard rule and leave it at that?

 

I can't see it being the death of PvP (everything is the death of PvP according to what I read in these forums).  If it is, then PvP is horribly broken, if the only way to do it is with account sharing.

 

So why write up a complex set of rules around this?  Just say "nope - no account sharing - end of rule".

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Seeing Steam supports account sharing, i dont see this as an issue with it per say., but you have to go through hoops to enable it. AKA one of the bigger parts is having to log on set friends pc. Same could be done with wurm. This should minimize the issue from people not really being friends or family members. 

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Sharing of accounts is not a Steam issue.  It's a "Wurm isn't making enough money" issue.  100% greed behind this rule change.

 

I will say this - this change is (and should be) targeting PvP kingdoms specifically (and that's a good thing).  Having 30 different people log on a mayor toon when a particular deed is attacked is kinda dumb.  Same goes for a whole kingdom of people sharing a weaponsmith/blacksmith with uber skill, or sharing out the hash to a 99.99 channeling Vyn priest to cast up your horse shoes.

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Here is the current draft of the new Account Rules.  These rules are not finalized and will likely be further refined before going into effect.

 

Quote

 

Account Security

A ) Keep your passwords secure at all times!  (You are solely responsible for the security of your accounts.)

B ) You are responsible for all activity on your accounts

     

Account / Item Sales

A ) We do not allow account selling, gifting, or transferring of any kind!

(Any accounts purchased pre-rmt will be considered owned by the person who purchased them) Own the email, Own the account!

B ) We do not allow any bartering for out of game assets.

C ) We do not offer support or service for any remedial action or loss that occurs for circumventing these rules.     

 

Punishment: Permanent ban of account!

     

Account Access Sharing

A ) At your own risk you may share access to your account with up to 2 other people without causing an account sharing violation.

B ) We do not allow account sharing or contracting with groups of 3 or more people.

(i.e. if you choose to risk sharing your account with up to two other people and one of them or yourself allows one more person to access your account, your account will be in violation of these rules and will be banned.)

C ) We do not allow accounts to be shared beyond the original account creator.

(i.e. if you choose to share access to your account with up to two other people and one of them allows one more person to access your account, even if you have stopped playing, your account will be in violation of these rules and will be banned.)

D ) We do not offer support or service for sharing and will not be held responsible for any remedial action or loss incurred if you circumvent these rules.

 

Punishment: First offense - 30 day account ban.  Second offense - Permanent ban of account

 

 

As I said at the top, this is just the current draft and these intended rules and they will probably see a number of refinements before becoming official active.

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What happens if you revoke access to someone and give it to someone else? Is this measured over a time frame?

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I mean, I know Wurm players dont really have many friends, but it needs to be asked.

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5 hours ago, Asciana said:

What happens if you revoke access to someone and give it to someone else? Is this measured over a time frame?

Yes, it will be measured, I cannot give any specifics at this time.

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