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Odynn

Traders. What? When? Where?

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the reduction is nice when you had nothing, but when you used to pay 5% or less of your deed upkeep and are now forced to pay 80% if not 100% because you are already at the minimum upkeep, this is a sad joke.

 

many of you have probably noticed it, but that joke is so bad that i'm forced to leave behind 8 years of wurming... and the worse part: no one want some of my deeds with traders that i'm giving away for free... (and obviously no one give a damn about the public landmarks).

 

seeing the increased amount of sales after that news, i'm not the only one in this situation for sure.

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Pretty sure a lot of people think its silly that Traders are only a good investment for 10 Silver of a month+ deeds. Especially since most player deeds are within 1S-4S.

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This is the trouble with that whole STUPID design... a 20% reduction means pocket change for a medium deed, nothing at all for a small deed, if you want to minize your upkeep, a trader is interesting up to 1s21c to get back to the minimum 1s... and still that means paying 1s every month (and that's silly to buy one for such amount).

 

Knowing that players usually have more than just one deed and the change will allow 1 trader move per players... all of this is a joke... do the devs care about the playerbase? I highly doubt it now. Seems like their only goal is to milk us to the last euros while driving the game into the ground.

 

By destroying what's left of the community, there will be nothing to make wurm attractive for the steam release. I remember a time of opulence, when Gumbo hosted DonD, we had players hosted events, real GM events done by Spellcast/Vali... those days are now long gone. The good traders deeds did have been washed away. Market and landmarks will disband. Players will be forced to resize down or leave.

 

And if one thing is certain through the whole MMo out there is that coercion is not the way to get cash from your players. You want pay once, play forever or F2P games with cash shops, where people will spent crazy amount of money out of their free will... not because they are forced to pay to keep the memories they made on the game intact.

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Retro did say that "We will also be adjusting costs of trader items to compensate for the inability to drain back funds from purchases". Since a trader is bought from another trader, hopefully that means the trader contract itself will get cheaper. You can get back 25% of the purchase price right now so that would make it cost 37.5 silver. From there it's a matter of how long you expect to be paying for the deed. Many people play for years and if you are okay with a 3 year payback time you'd need to be saving just over a silver per month, so it's worth it to invest for a ~5 silver deed. If you intend to play longer it can be worth it for even smaller deeds.

 

Still, I would prefer if it paid for itself on an average deed after no longer than a year or so. Maybe just make traders 12.5 silver?

 

 

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One week to go... still no info! Come on guys... You can't give us a deadline then fix the terms of any changes after it!

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33% deed reduction across the board, and everybody can walk away a winner. Do keep in mind, it probably would not be beyond the devs ability to slowly erode that % away over the years. Or even add to it. Now is def. the crunch time. I hope the staff will continue their deliberations and make a proper decision. Don't make a forced decision, make one that is thought out. They always takes a bit longer. Best of luck.

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32 minutes ago, Odynn said:

One week to go... still no info! Come on guys... You can't give us a deadline then fix the terms of any changes after it!

 

All the details are there though? I get that it does not seem sufficient for you, but that's what the traders will be, those changes are pretty much final.

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We are still waiting to hear about the potential trader transfer toward main deeds, how it will be managed, under which conditions and so on... Those are news... details, absolutely not... We are left in the dark and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is done for players having acquired a trader within those last 6 months or so... Players being utterly cheated by that update.

 

I doubt that's the kind of relationship you want with your playerbase IF you want your game to STRIVE on steam. Like I said many time many years ago when I was in the staff... gotta work on our/yours(now) communication and community relationship. Antagonising your players and driving them away is how to kill a game.

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14 minutes ago, Odynn said:

We are still waiting to hear about the potential trader transfer toward main deeds, how it will be managed, under which conditions and so on... Those are news... details, absolutely not... We are left in the dark and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is done for players having acquired a trader within those last 6 months or so... Players being utterly cheated by that update.

 

I doubt that's the kind of relationship you want with your playerbase IF you want your game to STRIVE on steam. Like I said many time many years ago when I was in the staff... gotta work on our/yours(now) communication and community relationship. Antagonising your players and driving them away is how to kill a game.

  

On 2/16/2020 at 9:46 PM, Retrograde said:

We will also be working on a limited time arrangement with the GM team to move traders from small deeds to the main deed of a player as long as they are able to prove ownership of it (ownership of the house, and deed). Undeeded traders will not be claimable.

 

That's as detailed as it gets. The trader move is on a case to case basis, single time, and performed manually by the GM team likely through support tickets after the trader update goes live. Please don't mistake being unhappy with a change for lack of communication.

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I think the changes that have been made are great while transition takes place.  This should help out a lot of players. 

 

Unfortunately I am one of those players that has bought a trader deed not that long ago (The trader has not yet paid back its worth). Now Stuck with a decision.  Keep the 2nd deed or sell it off to help fund for a new trader for my main deed on Xanadu. (Seeing traders are server locked.)

 

But the issue is this. I can't even think about selling, nor can anyone think of buying the deed. Because we do no know what the new cost of the trader will be.

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8 hours ago, Samool said:

  That's as detailed as it gets. The trader move is on a case to case basis, single time, and performed manually by the GM team likely through support tickets after the trader update goes live. Please don't mistake being unhappy with a change for lack of communication.

 

I keep typing out long and carefully worded responses to try and express my frustration and disappointment with the way this is being handled, and then deleting them.

 

I don't own a trader deed, I own one deed, and it's a small but well-constructed deed, and I bought my trader, like, four months ago because for the last seven years I have been playing Wurm it has been considered a solid investment in the game, albeit one that might take two or three years to pay for itself and start to earn dividends, and I finally had the silver to do it.

 

Will the GM team be considering partial refunds (in silver) for recently purchased traders, at all? This has been asked a lot, but if it's been answered, I've missed it so far.

 

For me (I can't speak for others) the upkeep reduction benefit that they'll be providing is very little use to me; until a couple of weeks ago my deed was a perfectly sized 1s 5c deed, and has been temporarily expanded at the moment to accommodate some extra pastures which puts it a grand total of about 2-2.5s silver upkeep, but that's not intended to be long term. You're fundamentally changing the way a very expensive in-game item functions with a very short notice period and no recourse for players to sell on or have refunded investments they made in good faith. Surely the handful of extra silver in the economy that you'd have to consider dishing out is 'worth' it to be able to handle the few cases of players who foolishly paid out for such an 'investment' in recent months having been given no heads up that the system would be changing so drastically? My two to three year investment is now looking more akin to a 10-15 year investment, if it ever pays off (and if the game continues to run for another decade and a half). I don't mind Traders being changed or removed for the sake of improving the game; but I mind a great deal how you've made me feel like my good faith investment in the game economy was money down the drain and the response to that thus far has been more or less akin to 'Tough luck'.

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6 hours ago, crimsonearth said:

You're fundamentally changing the way a very expensive in-game item functions with a very short notice period and no recourse for players to sell on or have refunded investments they made in good faith. Surely the handful of extra silver in the economy that you'd have to consider dishing out is 'worth' it to be able to handle the few cases of players who foolishly paid out for such an 'investment' in recent months having been given no heads up that the system would be changing so drastically?

I personally do not think this was a foolish "investment" at the the time. Hindsight is 20/20 ;) 

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I think Wurm is like RL in terms of sucking up or tough luck. I have straight lost my full bank balance, 50s on a fountain pan I've bought to dye my knarr just a week before the announcement of their doom has been made along with the free ways to dye large items. Happens. I've been mad. It still itches a bit but world keeps turning or whatever.

(Also I have two trader deeds on a server where I don't have a reasonably large deed to move them to).

 

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13 minutes ago, Jaz said:

I think Wurm is like RL in terms of sucking up or tough luck. I have straight lost my full bank balance, 50s on a fountain pan I've bought to dye my knarr just a week before the announcement of their doom has been made along with the free ways to dye large items. Happens. I've been mad. It still itches a bit but world keeps turning or whatever.

(Also I have two trader deeds on a server where I don't have a reasonably large deed to move them to).

 

Big different from a bug(fountain pan)  and a designed feature(trader).

 

FYI back in the day i destroyed several of those fountain pans. because i know it was a bug. I could have made tons of gold. but I choose not to, because it was the right thing to do.

 

All I'm asking is what a trader will cost with this new system.  Not sure where you are getting this suck it up train of thought from. I am merely taking care of my account responsibilities as out lined in the ToS.  Which I feel more player need to do.

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Just now, gorgian said:

Big different from a bug(fountain pan)  and a designed feature(trader).

 

FYI back in the day i destroyed several of those fountain pans. because i know it was a bug. I could have made tons of gold. but I choose not to, because it was the right thing to do.

 

All I'm asking is what a trader will cost with this new system.  Not sure where you are getting this suck it up train of thought from. I am merely taking care of my account responsibilities as out lined in the ToS.  Which I feel more player need to do.

At that time fountain pans were considered as valid "legacy items". I don't see any reason though to heat back that argument again, that is past behind. It was only a -maybe failed- attempt to show that I can understand how a fresh investment that is going to smoke short does feel. True, we need to still see what a trader contract will cost in March. Will it cost way more than a merchant it will only be a thing to consider for a huge deed only.

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9 minutes ago, Jaz said:

At that time fountain pans were considered as valid "legacy items". I don't see any reason though to heat back that argument again, that is past behind. It was only a -maybe failed- attempt to show that I can understand how a fresh investment that is going to smoke short does feel. True, we need to still see what a trader contract will cost in March. Will it cost way more than a merchant it will only be a thing to consider for a huge deed only.

 

No worries.  I do appreciate the attempt :)  Some times text does not come across in the correct meaning as it was originally intend.

 

At this point just clarifying some loose ends.  Where by i can make an informed decision. aka the price of a traders as of March 1, 2020

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no one know any infos... been trying to ask for real one since a while now, only thing we have is "everything is in the news"... but we completely lack the details... or what to do when we have multiple important deeds and traders... if there will be any commercial gesture like any business willing to keep their customers and so on.

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There will be one move per person per server, we won't be running around placing traders at different deeds. 

 

If you ran multiple traders to profit and pay for all your deeds then that's not going to be able to continue. 

 

I'm not sure the issue with cost, since I'd not recommend buying one without knowing that info but it's not an urgent reason to buy one 

 

You keep citing a lack of info but fail to point out what info you want, the trader relocation should not play any role in regards to information needed, as it will be all self contained. You know the rates and you know one will be moved

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

There will be one move per person per server, we won't be running around placing traders at different deeds. 

 

If you ran multiple traders to profit and pay for all your deeds then that's not going to be able to continue. 

 

I'm not sure the issue with cost, since I'd not recommend buying one without knowing that info but it's not an urgent reason to buy one 

 

You keep citing a lack of info but fail to point out what info you want, the trader relocation should not play any role in regards to information needed, as it will be all self contained. You know the rates and you know one will be moved

 

The issue is this Samool stated (Valrei International. 094, page 9) that no trader can be moved from server to server. 

 

Thus know the cost of a new trader is retentive to possibly thinking of selling a deed with one on it.

I had purchased a deed not to long ago that had a trader on it, seeing Xanadu could not support one.

 

If i know the cost of a new trader,  and other knew this also, I could see if could sell the deed to fund and obtain a new trader main deed on Xanadu.. 

 

(Side not i have yet to even come close to recapping the cost of the purchase.)

 

Edited by gorgian

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On 2/22/2020 at 5:23 PM, Retrograde said:

There will be one move per person per server, we won't be running around placing traders at different deeds. 

 

 

This is helpful but after looking through everything, I still have a couple of questions:

 

1. Will the existing silver still be on the trader after the change? I have not been all that active the last month and just noticed this.  I have limited time the next 2 days and unfortunately, the game is unplayable for me the last several hours due to terrible lag and continual disconnects.  Hoping this will go away but hasn't so far.

2. I'd love to move a trader to my main deed on Xan. Will that be allowed?

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29 minutes ago, GoldFever said:

2. I'd love to move a trader to my main deed on Xan. Will that be allowed?

Cross server transfers of traders is not allowed, but if your other deed is on xanadu and you've owned the deed for awhile then yes you can request a transfer until the deadline.

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Do you mean cross server trader moves are allowed to Xanadu? Why would there be such an exception?

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1 hour ago, Jaz said:

Do you mean cross server trader moves are allowed to Xanadu? Why would there be such an exception?

No cross server trader moves.

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5 hours ago, MrJonnyboy said:

No cross server trader moves.

and traders have never been allowed on Xan so effectively the answer to his/her question is "no"

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8 hours ago, MrJonnyboy said:

Cross server transfers of traders is not allowed, but if your other deed is on xanadu and you've owned the deed for awhile then yes you can request a transfer until the deadline.

 

Thank you for this clarification.  However, as no player owned traders are on Xan, this is not possible.  It seems to me that the restriction of traders on Xan should now be lifted and players given the right to move a trader there.

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