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ArthurHawkwing

Locks and Decay

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Approaching this subject again, heck Yes I am. I would like to see locks fall of at 75 damage on all the abandoned crap laying around the servers, carts, wagons, boats. I am not the only one that wishes to see this either. Everywhere you go there is old abandoned crap, looks like a junkyard in places. Make the game fun where we can occasionally find a little reward exploring, or waiting for a lock to fall of and be the first there to claim a new prize.  I know people say "Oh they may return someday" and all that and such. Well they better return before their stuff hits 75 damage then, or make a "Public Parking Garage" as has been suggested before. Granted there are a lot of rare ships and PMK stuff mainly wagons, and some people might build a hut over them to lay claim, so make that a punishable offense on items like carts, wagons. Off deed source fountains too. 

 

MAKE WURM FUN SOME MORE haha

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Hi I moved this to suggestions. 

 

We did discuss at one point requiring the effective 10ql in order for locks to work, similar to how vehicles and such are, so it's not something we havent thought of. 

 

 

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Everything abandoned should be salvageable eventually, in my opinion.

 

Locks falling off once an item reached heavy decay would clear up a lot of clutter around the lands of Wurm, and seem an acceptable penalty for inactivity.  Keep your stuff on a deed, or be active enough to keep it repaired.  Decay on large items does not occur quickly, and it would require minimal activity to keep important and valuable items protected.

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Still would like to see what the DEV team thinks of adding back in locks decaying off, especially as slow as carts. wagons, ships decay. Most of those folks are going to have plenty of time to login and check on things. Those who have truly quit their gear will decay, the lock will pop and maybe those of us who stayed loyal will have a little boon of retrieving an occasional ship, or PMK wagon, or a new player might stumble on some. I really think this should be a thing, MAKE WURM FUN. I keep feeling like a lot of player ideas are completely ignored and overlooked. If thats the way things are going to keep going, folks will just keep leaving. That is why we have suggestions and the Forums. Other games have semi to full loot and players are staying I just started playing Gloria Victis, it has PVP and Looting, got some items looted, meh, my Guild quickly re-supplied me and on our way and we took the Keep. WURM has plenty of good crafters but WURM is so heavily crafting based it pleads to have more non-craft to do as PVP has died, Jackal is still hmmmhmm, Rifts are seeing so few players they take forever to finish. 

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So what you suggest then, Arthur, is to move pvp-looting to pve?

 

Just for the record, people do come back after months and years.

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1 hour ago, Cecci said:

So what you suggest then, Arthur, is to move pvp-looting to pve?

 

Just for the record, people do come back after months and years.

But if they goes for months/ years long break, they're not leaving stuff in wild. And if they do... their business. Just like deeds. Should we also prevent disbanding if they forgot to care of upkeep?

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Anything that gets rid of depressing garbage in the landscape oceans gets a +1 from me.

 

Been two bloody years now and I still see the same 2 wagons/carts on the west end of my deed not decayed. Owner hasn't turned up. And everywhere I look I'm staring at abandoned boats, carts, wagons, etc.

 

It literally takes minutes for a decent carpenter to build a large cart. A few extra minutes to imp it to 50-60 ql. Why should it take years for that to decay once the player quits? Top it all off it's locked with a ql 1 lock.

 

It kinda looks like this security system.

 

3trt0av3zpe01.jpg

 

And funnily enough, by game rules, we can't touch that obsolete piece of junk cluttering the landscape.

 

Please make a system to destroy/remove abandoned stuff.

 

And don't give the argument with "move it to a lava tile" . We can have more elegant systems than that. 

 

Not everyone has access to an account to create lava tiles and not all items are located near areas that could have such tiles.

 

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They simply need to tweak decay settings, so they decay faster. Also add the option just like with buildings, if a player doesn't log on in 30 days it gets extra decay.

while tweaking those sections, fix the care for option too. if a player doesn't look in in 30 days "with prem" the animal drop the care for buff. 

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3 hours ago, gorgian said:

They simply need to tweak decay settings, so they decay faster. Also add the option just like with buildings, if a player doesn't log on in 30 days it gets extra decay.

while tweaking those sections, fix the care for option too. if a player doesn't look in in 30 days "with prem" the animal drop the care for buff. 


If it is deemed bad policy to allow locks to fall off and vehicles to be taken or containers to be opened and contents claimed, then please at least do this.

I also resonate with the sentiment expressed by elentari:


 

5 hours ago, elentari said:

Anything that gets rid of depressing garbage in the landscape oceans gets a +1 from me.

 

Been two bloody years now and I still see the same 2 wagons/carts on the west end of my deed not decayed. Owner hasn't turned up. And everywhere I look I'm staring at abandoned boats, carts, wagons, etc.

 

It literally takes minutes for a decent carpenter to build a large cart. A few extra minutes to imp it to 50-60 ql. Why should it take years for that to decay once the player quits? Top it all off it's locked with a ql 1 lock.

 

It kinda looks like this security system.

 

3trt0av3zpe01.jpg

 

And funnily enough, by game rules, we can't touch that obsolete piece of junk cluttering the landscape.

 

Please make a system to destroy/remove abandoned stuff.

 

And don't give the argument with "move it to a lava tile" . We can have more elegant systems than that. 

 

Not everyone has access to an account to create lava tiles and not all items are located near areas that could have such tiles.

 

 

 

Please, either allow abandoned vehicles and resources to be absorbed by the active player base, or let them decay at a faster rate so as to no longer clutter up the environment. 

And yes, if a player has not been online in over a month and has not secured their items either on one of their deeds or on a friend's deed, the items have been abandoned.  I personally see no point in protecting them in the event that the player may "some day" return.  Players who either choose not to deed or who cannot afford it need only log on once a month to keep the added decay mechanic from kicking in and to repair containers and vehicles they may have.  It may be a bit of an inconvenience, but that is part of the benefit of having a deed, even if it is a minimum sized one for protecting personal items long-term.

Humbly submitted...
~TH~

Edited by Thalius
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Look at it from a realistic perspective.

 

If player X abandons a cart in the wild, what are the % for him to come back to it ?  Slim to none. If the cart is low ql, then he's probably a newbie as well. You can often tell something is abandoned by simply checking damage on it.


Past experience and low retention shows that after a month that guy isn't probably coming back. If it's high ql  and  the person has a reputation then he's on a break and most of his stuff is secured on his deed. He probably left the cart due to some other reason, such as a rift trip he didn't want to make twice. Or maybe he delivered mats and wanted to get home faster.

 

Whatever the reason, things that are in the Wild for some time should be deemed in one way or another, destructible.  Why is a chest still secured and locked when it's been abandoned for a year? Isn't there some item history that can be attached to it as being "interacted with" by its owner ? On freedom we get the message "Lockpicking is punishable by death so you decide not to." Right....so I can't clear up garbage in a spot because some vestigial mechanic prevents me to clean my area of the map.

 

Fact of the matter is, Freedom is a misnomer when it comes to permission at times. There should be a mechanic in place where protectionism ends.


Without that mechanic we're left with a lot of garbage around that negatively impacts player experience : abandoned boats, carts, wagons, secured furniture or empty bsbs in ruins only do to demoralize some people or just make the place look like a garbage dump. Most people enjoy building aesthetic deeds. That enjoyment tends to be affected when you leave deed and see the ruins from 2-3 deeds around knowing you can't move all the abandoned crap strewn about.

 

Time to decay is way too long. Some people imp their furniture to 70 ql. Assuming no one would repair em, that would still take years for full decay to ensue. 70 ql abandoned garbage is still garbage.

 

 

Edited by elentari
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On 2/5/2020 at 9:56 PM, Cecci said:

So what you suggest then, Arthur, is to move pvp-looting to pve?

 

Just for the record, people do come back after months and years.

As slow as the decay is on ships and carts and wagons, as I stated above, they have Plenty of time to login and repair once in awhile.

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I reconsidered my idea about abandoned stuff. When I think of it, during my many, many travels, I used to see dozens abandoned deeds, places, wagons, carts, crates and chests. Somehow it shows some history of our servers. Shows that here lived some players or lone player. Sometimes when I look on old ruins I like to think who lived here, seeing this everything I always wonder how this place used to look like, when owner logged out for the last time.

 

Without this old carts and wagons we would see nothing, like thise land were never used and had no history.

 

Also, we can't however be left without a choice. I think that decay or rather lack of decay like now would be nice if it would look like that:

 

1. After 6 months of owner's absence, all locks out of deed disappears so everyone can open this stuff.

 

2. Also after 6 months, things like wagons and bins or chests etc. Should tell us, that this is abandoned, crumbling object and give an option after examination. "Do you want to restore or reassembly this object?" Where first one would transform ownership to examinator and second one would destroy an object.

 

We can't have a mess around if we don't want to, but also we shouldn't simply erase history of every area if we don't need to.

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But also realistically abandoned stuff that was useful was carted off or put into use by new settlers and explorers, I play several other Medieval style games with partial PVP looting and and full on abandoned undeeded materials, etc is fair game and I don't see griefing or major complaints as there are enough crafters, harvesters, etc. I think we loose a ton of good players because almost every other game out there has a way better reward/looting/plunder whatever you want to call it and not to mention PVP system. You have to imagine it like this "Your team has been exploring this new land for days, looking for the right spot of land to found the new Village. Your only wagon has just broken a wheel and axle. A scout returns, telling of an old abandoned wagon from another expedition. It has what you need to fix your wagon. The scout describes the wagons condition as says its locked. A shady archer says the locks no problem. Or maybe the wagon has been there and the lock has decayed already and maybe the wheel and axle look good etc etc"

 

Its about using imagination to make the game more fun, and I think we all forget 90% of the new players ARE USED to PVP and such, are used to partial looting, and being able to cart off everything not deeded or claimed. And I think we loose 80% of those players because the community here is too afraid of changes like this. If the community wont adapt and the Devs continue to not listen, WURM is doomed, and like others I will keep looking then till I find a game similar with what should be in the Game Mechanics.

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6 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

But also realistically abandoned stuff that was useful was carted off or put into use by new settlers and explorers, I play several other Medieval style games with partial PVP looting and and full on abandoned undeeded materials, etc is fair game and I don't see griefing or major complaints as there are enough crafters, harvesters, etc. I think we loose a ton of good players because almost every other game out there has a way better reward/looting/plunder whatever you want to call it and not to mention PVP system. You have to imagine it like this "Your team has been exploring this new land for days, looking for the right spot of land to found the new Village. Your only wagon has just broken a wheel and axle. A scout returns, telling of an old abandoned wagon from another expedition. It has what you need to fix your wagon. The scout describes the wagons condition as says its locked. A shady archer says the locks no problem. Or maybe the wagon has been there and the lock has decayed already and maybe the wheel and axle look good etc etc"

 

Its about using imagination to make the game more fun, and I think we all forget 90% of the new players ARE USED to PVP and such, are used to partial looting, and being able to cart off everything not deeded or claimed. And I think we loose 80% of those players because the community here is too afraid of changes like this. If the community wont adapt and the Devs continue to not listen, WURM is doomed, and like others I will keep looking then till I find a game similar with what should be in the Game Mechanics.

 

I know a "plus one" alone does mean a lot nor add much to the conversation, but I'm going to give this comment one anyway because I can't think to add anything else to it.

+1

Edited by Thalius

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Having seen the same carts in the same places for 9 years, yes I agree with these ideas.  Let us take the old salvage rules into our own hands, if effective ql is under 10 and player is offline X amount of time, lock is removed.

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Agreed this needs reviewing.

 

So we need a timeframe that satisfies most scenarios.

 

How aout 1 year from when the owner last logged in, unless still protected by a deed?

 

Seems a decent period of time yet not just left forever

 

Either way, reviewing this gets my vote :)

 

 

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1 year is way too long Solmark.

 

Let's analyze it through standard scenario cases.

 

If player X disbands a deed and leaves items for 3 months unattended then all locks should fall off his items. Ownership is set as neutral, the code is already there, pvp players are familiar with "You declare this item as property of XYZ".

 

Definition of "unattended" : Doesn't login for 3 months, items are off his deed and doesn't interact with said items.

 

Interaction : Open item, repair item, improve item, change lock, move, place, bash or managing item through interface (ships, carts, wagons, etc)  by owner.

 

Three months is an extremely generous grace period. 1 year is ridiculous considering such high decay timers.

 

If a player leaves a locked chest on the same server off-deed then that chest must be interacted with by the owner at least once every 3 months. If he's not actively using it , means he either forgot about it (his problem, a player's items are his responsibility) or he abandoned it but he's too lazy to move it. If he doesn't interact with it, it's abandoned = lock falls off.

 

Another situation : I live on Deli, if I abandon a cart on Xanadu, 3 months pass by and I don't sail to XAN during that time, then that lock falls off the cart.

 

The idea is to predict player behavior and consequences. People what want to keep their items will keep em on deed or close by. If someone regularly uses an item, be it a chest or wagon, then it stands to reason he'll interact with it, at least once every 3 months.


A player's items are his responsibility. They shouldn't turn into "immovable" garbage once he quits the game. It's absurd.

The current system offers more protectionism to people who litter servers and leave garbage around than to players who want to clean it up.

Edited by elentari
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On 2/6/2020 at 12:02 PM, ArthurHawkwing said:

Still would like to see what the DEV team thinks of adding back in locks decaying off, especially as slow as carts. wagons, ships decay. Most of those folks are going to have plenty of time to login and check on things. Those who have truly quit their gear will decay, the lock will pop and maybe those of us who stayed loyal will have a little boon of retrieving an occasional ship, or PMK wagon, or a new player might stumble on some. I really think this should be a thing, MAKE WURM FUN. I keep feeling like a lot of player ideas are completely ignored and overlooked. If thats the way things are going to keep going, folks will just keep leaving. That is why we have suggestions and the Forums. Other games have semi to full loot and players are staying I just started playing Gloria Victis, it has PVP and Looting, got some items looted, meh, my Guild quickly re-supplied me and on our way and we took the Keep. WURM has plenty of good crafters but WURM is so heavily crafting based it pleads to have more non-craft to do as PVP has died, Jackal is still hmmmhmm, Rifts are seeing so few players they take forever to finish. 

 

What about stuff on active deeds?  I recently joined an active village, got given a plot with a half-built house full of wonderful resources.  So far so terrific.  The sailing boat locked and moored in the front yard, not so much.

 

Basically my options are to build an oubliette around it or call it a garden feature.

Edited by TheTrickster

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On 2/10/2020 at 2:08 AM, ArthurHawkwing said:

But also realistically abandoned stuff that was useful was carted off or put into use by new settlers and explorers, I play several other Medieval style games with partial PVP looting and and full on abandoned undeeded materials, etc is fair game and I don't see griefing or major complaints as there are enough crafters, harvesters, etc. I think we loose a ton of good players because almost every other game out there has a way better reward/looting/plunder whatever you want to call it and not to mention PVP system. You have to imagine it like this "Your team has been exploring this new land for days, looking for the right spot of land to found the new Village. Your only wagon has just broken a wheel and axle. A scout returns, telling of an old abandoned wagon from another expedition. It has what you need to fix your wagon. The scout describes the wagons condition as says its locked. A shady archer says the locks no problem. Or maybe the wagon has been there and the lock has decayed already and maybe the wheel and axle look good etc etc"

 

Its about using imagination to make the game more fun, and I think we all forget 90% of the new players ARE USED to PVP and such, are used to partial looting, and being able to cart off everything not deeded or claimed. And I think we loose 80% of those players because the community here is too afraid of changes like this. If the community wont adapt and the Devs continue to not listen, WURM is doomed, and like others I will keep looking then till I find a game similar with what should be in the Game Mechanics.

 

This brings up another important suggestion: the ability to recover material and components.  There should be an ability to dismantle complex objects instead of simply turning bashing them into dust.  Realistically, although "recycling" as a term is modernish, the practice positively ancient.  Granted there would be some quality loss, whether actual or effective through damage, but you should, for example, be able to recover planks from and abandoned shed or wheels from an abandoned cart.

 

On that note, I would love it if metal objects could actually be rendered back into lumps - realistic scrapping.

 

Edited by TheTrickster

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I dont feel a need to be able to recover building mats when the world is already full of unused stuff and if not it is easy to make.

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4 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

On that note, I would love it if metal objects could actually be rendered back into lumps - realistic scrapping.

 

 

What, you mean with a smelting pot? That's already a thing though, unless you're thinking of something more specific.

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Metal objects can be definitely smelted. Unless you perhaps refer to metal objects such as altars that cannot be smelted. 

But most things in game can definitely be reused, except some complex wood items such as carts/boats/wagons/ship transporters/animal cages, etc. 

 

Again, as for boats and stuff, I still stand by the idea that if the owner doesn't login for a few months, locks should fall off.

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Well, one reason I would be against the proposal would be that we would lose the 2+ threads per year suggesting poofing "old" vehicles and boats. ;)

 

What I ask myself is: When these things are so much of an eyesore, is it really such an issue to expose a rock tile, if none of those close by, push the vehicle on it and erupt the tile? Ok, for moored ships, that is bit more complicated, but even there, dredging out a rock tile beneath it would be possible. Why changing game mechanics for that?

 

Bit faster decay for vehicles would not harm, though, but please, rather not for ships. As to the loss of locks after a lengthy period of time, I would not completely be opposed to, though "a few months the owner doesn't log in" seem far too short to me.

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Moored ship can be moved by GMs, if on deed and player not around.

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