Retrograde

The Future of RMT in Wurm and Price Reductions

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2 hours ago, igSnarkin said:

Well it was clear this was coming.

Only real comment is retro had stated he would give "PLENTY" of notice before the banning of RMT came into effect I am not sure having only 30 days for people to make up their minds is enough 60-90 days would have made more sense both giving more time for people to decide to stay sell unload etc.. give more time for the new anti rmt methods to be tested fully.

 

If steam release isnt until mid year (june- july?) then giving more time to April or May might have been better and to avoid the market rush that may or may not happen.

 

Overall glad to see Wurm making serious efforts in content, QoL and other improvements, now we shall see if straying from the orig model proves to be successful or it flatlines.

Soon as they said going over to steam should have been a red flag for most players.

Next will be in late fall that WO will be closed to put all affords into WS  , ending WO in early 2021 ..

Steam will not last long . if you like to grind skills sure np , but this game still lacks contain ... skill grinding is not contain ...

Was under the impression traders were being phased out 1 year or so back ?

Unless you placed the trader that's to bad so sad no move , I have seen free traders deeded over to stop others from there use .

 

 

My deed has 2 years upkeep and will ride it to the end ....

 

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34 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Soon as they said going over to steam should have been a red flag for most players.

Next will be in late fall that WO will be closed to put all affords into WS  , ending WO in early 2021 ..

Steam will not last long . if you like to grind skills sure np , but this game still lacks contain ... skill grinding is not contain ...

Was under the impression traders were being phased out 1 year or so back ?

Unless you placed the trader that's to bad so sad no move , I have seen free traders deeded over to stop others from there use .

 

 

My deed has 2 years upkeep and will ride it to the end ....

 

 

The steam servers run in the same place, on the same hardware stacks as the other servers. It's just a different client you use to connect. Aside from the servers not being connected at first, it's not two separate worlds. Exact same code bases, exact same thing.

Edited by Chakron
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There are allready 6 pages of this and no time to read it all, as I am on a long road trip this week, so if I repeat something that has been said, sorry about it.

 

I think this is very good stuff for the game.  Good warning time too.  Gives folks a quick chance to make last minute changes as best as they can.  I am a RMT heavy user and even so, I am glad to see it go.  Like others say though, it will still happen on the sly and there really isn't a lot that can be done.  This happens with every game that does not allow it.  What ya gonna do?  Just police as best as you can.

 

Now for traders, huge applause for this (mostly)!  Bout time.  It never made sense to me.  Seemed it was a poor decision financially for Code Club to have this cash draining system in place.  I think the consolation prize of having traders still support deed upkeep is a bad one.  Just rip that band-aid right off now, like you are doing with RMT.  Allow pro-rated refunds to anyone that purchased one in the last 5 months.  20% refund for each unused month.  Why do you want 50 rando NPCs standing around on each server?  Are you doing it for a quick cash grab again, hoping everyone will grab a trader for what... 25s each?

 

Just get rid of them completely for once and for good.

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myself i am so glad that Wurm is getting rid of the money issues here, and let all of the people who just come to this game to profit just leave, i know i have had issues with player who bought all of the land around starter towns just to build a market, and killed the experience for new players, this game will grow in time ( add NPC quest so people can skill up ) you have a chance to redo and improve this game to a fun experience again, please do not waste it, and with the merchant gamer gone and the money/silver issue gone i see the drama gone also, i will be here to this game goes away, i am a die-hard wurm player, here is a idea make treasure drops from critter fights or have NPC  we can fight for some kind of treasure and let us be able to sell sale stuff they we get in drops to merchants . or have more towns on the maps with quests

Edited by Russwoods
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Hello Yes! This should of been done a long time ago! This is the right choice!

 

 

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9 hours ago, Shmeric said:

I understand that.

But...

RMT basics - "send me xx euros via paypal and something via mail in the game for xx silver".

In May, when I accept a potato from my other character for xx silver, do you guarantee the ban hammer won't hit me? :)

How do you think Blizzard does this with wow. They ban anyone who traded anything with anyone? No. Do you think wurm is different and just bans all their customers. Snap out of your horror movie now.

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10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Steam server connections
These changes allow us to announce something else we have been working towards, and that is how the Steam servers will integrate with our existing servers. 
The Steam servers and the regular Wurm Online servers will be available via BOTH clients, and simply be disconnected via mail and travel. 

This will mean that all servers can be accessed from Steam, as well as the Steam servers accessible via the regular client. This will still require separate accounts.

2 hours ago, Damascus said:

 

Next will be in late fall that WO will be closed to put all affords into WS  , ending WO in early 2021 ..

 

 

I don't see how Wurm on Steam will end Wurm Online, when Steam players get to choose between existing servers and starting on a new Steam server. To me it sounds like a new Pristine/Release but with much more exposure and Wurm Online at a better place to draw in and keep new players.

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9 hours ago, Evilreaper said:

probably a dozen years too late, but its great to see wurm becoming a game again instead of this "investment" b.s. wurm is much cheaper than most other games out there that require monthly subs, and people who threaten to quit over this is great, i'd rather have 1 brand new player dedicated to wurming as a game than 20 gold farmers with purchased accounts

 

wurm wasnt about gold farming when it was thriving. it was about an open sandbox and in epic about the kingdoms also. it started becoming a gold farmers niche with the "fixes" and the nerfs. an account could become very viable in 6 months in pvp or pve and compete with top tier accounts, you didnt need to buy an account if you didnt want to, for example. The "fixes" made it so difficult to progress that higher accounts became very valuable, and also the "fixes" made it so that you needed moon metals, or scale to compete, making everything too valuable, therefore attracting gold farmers. 

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No more account sales?

 

About damn time! 

 

Shame its a bit too late at but it's a step in the right direction.

 

Good riddance.  

Edited by atazs
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51 minutes ago, Wulfgar said:

 

I don't see how Wurm on Steam will end Wurm Online, when Steam players get to choose between existing servers and starting on a new Steam server. To me it sounds like a new Pristine/Release but with much more exposure and Wurm Online at a better place to draw in and keep new players.

Can't agree more. Technically, it seems a great idea to me making sure that the client code is not split in two pieces of software and in danger to drift apart.

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Right now the only thing i expect are infos on traders deed price reduction, being given 30 days but without any proper infos is no good... specially when you are basicly left with the choice of either leaving because the game will probably become too expensive or managing to stay depending on the official answers.

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10 hours ago, Toma said:

If anything I think they should reduce the cost of premium while increasing the cost of deed ownership.  I want as many people in the game to make the game successful on steam.  Large village owners could be whales supporting the game, while villagers could be regular players with a budget.

 

Kind of like medieval Europe, land owners and tenant villagers.  It would not be discordant with the tone of the game.

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Ah the chaos of change. I have to hold back alot of personal kneejerk reactions to all this and remember how I have considered it all before from a professional gaming point (I had to carve out me heart first..lol) From the looks of it looks like the devs have decided already that steam is going to be a success. A little more forewarning would have been nice.
One of the reasons I chose to play wurm (which was touched on in the original post) is to get something back for all my years of gaming.. neither side of the fence on it atm just the truth

Edited by Seraph
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I'm glad to see that it's happening, as that means that the existing servers can actually be connected up to the steam servers in the future, which will allow steam players to then go to them.

I'm also glad they combined removing RMT with lowering some of the prices, great move to combine those two.

 

Will traders be available for placement on Xanadu after the changes have been made to them?

Edited by Ecrir

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9 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

I'm glad to see that it's happening, as that means that the existing servers can actually be connected up to the steam servers in the future, which will allow steam players to then go to them.

I'm also glad they combined removing RMT with lowering some of the prices, great move to combine those two.

 

Will traders be available for placement on Xanadu after the changes have been made to them?


Traders will be available to place on Xanadu 

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But...  These are well thought out logical changes...  The decisions are clearly justified, and responses in the thread are equally clear and to the point...

 

Who are you people, and what have you done with the real wurm team?!?

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Is wurm still listed on PLayerauctions? I believe Rolf did this some time ago and this may need to be fixed. Its solely rmt site

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@Samool@Retrogradethanks for these positive changes!

 

However, two question remains for me.

 

1. As we will be able to use the same client for both Wurm "Versions" - will we also be able to make a new Wurm Steam account via the usual Wurm Website way and just select Steam for it, or do we have to make multiple Steam accounts and will those be entered as login to the client then? I guess the later, just would like some clarification. :)

 

2. How will people on the Wurm Steam servers be priested? I recall in the past there was 2 ways... iirc one was to travel to some altars on some server, I recall doing that for my first Vyn - was a cool memory!

Then I heard people were also sometimes initialy be priested by GMs until a certain threashold was reached and then people had to do it as we do it nowdays still - be priested by another priest.

Any idea by now how it will be on Wurm Steam?

 

Thanks in advance. :)

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The ability to sell silver for euros is fine if it goes, but the trader change is completely ######. You're essentially spitting in the face of the remaining playerbase all for a steam server that is probably just going to flop anyway. 

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14 minutes ago, ChinChin said:

The ability to sell silver for euros is fine if it goes, but the trader change is completely ######. You're essentially spitting in the face of the remaining playerbase all for a steam server that is probably just going to flop anyway. 

Funny cuz, depends how you look at :P I could also say that ability to sell silvers for euros is huge loss for the game, but the trader change is very welcomed because i didn't have any traders and maybe plan to get one as soon as i find out more details... They already spit in our faces as you say on so many ocassions, fountain pans, priests, favour sources, why should traders get special treatment now beside all these spittings? 

When i was complaining how my stock of lovage is useless after this change people where cant understand how you can label item useless, bla, bla. I sincerly hope some of them had traders and traded silvers and acounts a lot :D 

Edited by kochinac

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14 hours ago, Delacroix said:

 

If you're going through with this bull****, you need to give us a means to move our goddamn traders. Especially when there are those of us who solely use traders to help maintain our deeds, but don't have them on those deeds for various reasons. Either refund the traders themselves, or allow us to move them to separate locations and deeds.

 

@Retrograde @Samool

 

Please dont get mad over a long time exploit that you are finally being told wont be allowed anymore.

Edited by Jeston
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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

But...  These are well thought out logical changes...  The decisions are clearly justified, and responses in the thread are equally clear and to the point...

 

Who are you people, and what have you done with the real wurm team?!?

 

They were replaced with people who know if they don't do anything sooner than later they might be forced close down all the servers (the game) from the lack of sufficient funds. That is the real reason behind the major changes, they are trying to make the game way more relevant and viable for new players which if that doesn't happen you can close the chapter on Wurm itself. Though I know most of the older core players will be a spiteful person until the bitter end all cause they cant sell overpriced accounts. You would think more would be excited for a full new wurm server that has 0 influence from old accounts and trading.

Edited by Jeston
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11 hours ago, Griffith said:

haha someone do a poll or survey, those in favor, against and neutral. would love to see the results. though i know it means nothing.

 

the way i see it, theyre trying to save the game, but theyre treating symptoms and not the root cause of declining population. for example, how is opening more servers gonna help increase population, its been done over and over and gotten worse over time. why not just open wo on steam. some people like the smell of new servers but im sure more people prefer players to see even if they dont play with them.

 

 

No they are doing exactly that, removing the root problem, account trading/sharing, silver trading, trader abuse. All things not allowed in any other popular MMORPG, hmmm I wonder why they are better off. They are not just opening a new server like Xanadu, its literally a separate game with no influence from older accounts and economy, fully isolated from all the problems that make new players irrelevant.

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IMO i dont think that RMT removal is a good way or rather necessary. I've been always against removing RMT.

But account sales ban as well as all other changes are pretty much ok and i like them. However I'm afraid that it's too late, faaaaar too late for this, to fix economy of wurm. 

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As one of the largest Wurm land owners on Independence, I believe the new Wurm majority shareholder (not Rolf) may be committing financial suicide on these new changes.  For that, I offer my opinion:

 

DESTRUCTION OF NPC TRADERS (a good thing)
- While Rolf's in-game NPC Trader ( https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Trader ) idea/theory was not the best, it will be fixed soon.
- I think we can all almost agree the NPC Trader system sucked.  A person hoarded nice coastline property that yielded zero purpose other than to have a NPC Trader (just look at the deed West of mine) in the game.  I've seen new players running through my village looking for property and then hit the areas owned by a person that never plays the game or showed up once a month to collect his silver.  Even though I own 2 traders and have used them both about once, I think it's awesome they're giving the shaft to Traders, as it yielded silver for non-truely-productive-time-for-stuff-traded-back-to-a-trader and people exploited it.
- I love the idea of a NPC Trader getting disbanded upon upkeep nonpayment.  Perhaps, throw in an auction-based limit of NPC Traders per server.  There will always be someone willing to help everyone (ie. allowing people to buy Trader items from their NPC Trader for free).

 

DESTRUCTION OF THE MATERIAL SUPPLIER ECONOMY
- I never buy materials from players, but I do not mind those selling materials on the forums or #Trade channel for silver.  In fact, I think it's great they do that.  It's the economy, stupid!

 

DESTRUCTION OF THE SILVER SELLER ECONOMY
- I buy a lot of silver from in-game players because the prices WurmOnline.com charges are so high, I am not be willing to pay for that.  I do pay WurmOnline.com for my premium accounts - that's my way of paying the developers, and helping others paying their premiums.  It's the Trickle-Down Effect that makes this game work.

 

DESTRUCTION OF ACCOUNTS BASED UPON IP ADDRESS
- Some Colleges/Universities use a shared gateway that appears to be coming from the same IP address, but because of NAT routing, there could be tens/hundreds/thousands of people playing Wurm from behind one IPv4 address.
- VPN users that get the same IP assignment upon reconnection (using a shared pool)?  Good luck on that!

 

DESTRUCTION OF PERPETUAL ACCOUNT HOLDING AND ACCOUNT SHARING
- I do not have a problem with people doing perpetual account holding.  If a group of people can get that going forever, that's totally fine with me.  That shows some real dedication on their part to keep this game alive!  THAT IS A HUGE PLUS FOR THIS GAME!  I am not involved in that at all, and I understand the issue, but I am totally fine with it.  When the last holder of the account dies, it's akin to bitcoin, it's gone forever.  If a game last forever, it comes down to the owner's revenue versus cost (ie. it may not last forever).

 

DESTRUCTION OF THE WHEELCHAIR COMMUNITY
- I know many MMORPG friends and players that spend their lives in wheelchairs and we all know it's very difficult for them to get a job.  For many of them, Wurm has given them a new lease on life.  It has given them hope on improving their situation that those (with the same circumstances) did not enjoy decades ago.  MMORPGs allowed these people to make real cash by working in a game.  MMORPG games, such as Wurm, gave them an opportunity to make money in order to pay real-life bills (eg. food, water, shelter, medical, electricity, etc.) and these opportunities for the unfortunate are being cut short for corporate profits.

 

DESTRUCTION OF REAL MARKET PRICING
- 10 silver costs 12.99 Euros at WurmOnline.com
- I've been able to buy 10 silver for 10 USD and I imagine it's a hell of a lot lower now.
- If I'm forbidden from paying the real market price because the game kills RMT, why should I continue paying or playing?

 

DESTRUCTION OF GROWTH
I've been planning on continuing my growth in the game by hosting an impalong.  By hosting an impalong, assuming I do (but this new change is now a clusterfuk), I would be deploying assets into the game by helping players and promoting the game.  I don't make money via RMT.  I help keep this game afloat and you're now killing me.

 

DESTRUCTION OF DELACROIX'S LARGE DEED IS FREE THEORY
As Delacroix states, "This just in: if you're a part of a large community the deed is free."   Hahahaha.  If a large deed owner leaves, the large community is on their own (ie. most likely gone).

 

DESTRUCTION OF THE WHALES (THE TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECT)
When the whales disappear, the trickle-down effect begins...  The silver sellers quit.  The material suppliers quit.  The villagers quit.  The economy collapses.  No one is left, except the few last diehards.  Unfortunately, the company cannot afford to continue, so they shut the doors on the diehards.

 

GOING TO STEAM IS NOT THE SOLUTION
Going to Steam might yield short-term revenue and profits, but the reality is, Wurm's graphics and codebase are not state-of-the-art compared to the big games on Steam or Epic.  Therefore, Wurm is subject to HUGE FUTURE NEGATIVE RATINGS WHEN IT LAUNCHES ON STEAM.

 

CONCLUSION
(1) To survive, Wurm needs to make a profit.  We can all agree on this.
(2) The new majority shareholder is too greedy, imo.
(3) Killing/Redoing NPC Traders will do a lot to help the game as useful land will be freed up for new players.
(4) Dropping RMT and going to Steam is the wrong move, imo.  Fuk Steam - Steam is already dying because of better alternatives (eg. Epic, Stadia, and other new entrants)!  We don't need Steam's Terms and Conditions here!
(5) The current majority shareholder does not have as great an understanding of Economics as Rolf.

 

Edited by Vooch
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