Retrograde

The Future of RMT in Wurm and Price Reductions

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4 minutes ago, Milkdrop said:

That people invest into a obviously declining system and think that what they put into it will retain it's value is almost like gambling the stock market, just the stock market is sometimes less transparent or not as easy to understand as the situation we have here.

How many times have longstanding things (Fountainpans to name one) be changed, "values" been destroyed, in the name of the greater good for the game.

Sorry, to think they would not someday remove RMT is a bit naive. /hug

 

Heh, I know I should have sold out everything like 2 years ago or so and now chuckles happily thinking about the poor sod(s) who bought things from me... I decided to have faith in the game and the staff in charge of it... yes, it was most likely naive and/or stupid... Specially seeing the lack of concerns they show regarding said players investment.

 

It might be better to keep players paying small upkeeps and their monthly premium than loosing them by slapping them so hard in the face and/or the wallet... according to my immense mathematical knowledge 8+€ > 0.0€.

 

I will also take that hug, free hugs (and almost everythings) are hard to come by nowadays :P

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6 minutes ago, Odynn said:

Heh, I know I should have sold out everything like 2 years ago or so and now chuckles happily thinking about the poor sod(s) who bought things from me... I decided to have faith in the game and the staff in charge of it... yes, it was most likely naive and/or stupid... Specially seeing the lack of concerns they show regarding said players investment.

You have identified your mistake the wrong way.

 

Mistake is not in the fact that you "believed" in game. Mistake is in the fact that playing video game is playing video game and not buying shares of a company, expecting to be able to sell it back with profit some time soon.

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30 minutes ago, Odynn said:

If you think investing time and money in a game where it kept it's real value and suddenly loose all of it is fun... just make a stash of equivalent money and burn it away and see if you get the same feeling.

The difference between your investment and a real life investment is that no one guaranteed to you that you would be able to RMT forever. In fact, there is not even an explicit right for you to engage in it. All you had was CCAB saying "do it at your own risk." You essentially invested 4k in a penny stock and it crashed.

 

Wurm staff has the right to follow whichever action they deem necessary to protect their brand, such as selling through steam and following steam policies. You on the other hand have no right to a return in your Wurm investment at the expense of their brand. 

 

That's the point.

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5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

In fact, there is not even an explicit right for you to engage in it. All you had was CCAB saying "do it at your own risk."

 

I couldnt care less about this topic, I made some money on excess items a few times but the game has always been just a game to me not a job. To be fair however the eula for the longest time specifically said rmt was allowed as they believed it was the players right to profit from their time.

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1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

 

I couldnt care less about this topic, I made some money on excess items a few times but the game has always been just a game to me not a job. To be fair however the eula for the longest time specifically said rmt was allowed as they believed it was the players right to profit from their time.

Allowed, not a right. As in CCAB doesn't have a contract with you in which an investment service is provided or a guarantee of the continued availability of that service or product. Like an investment firm or a bank would. Allowing something does not make you liable for not allowing it anymore.

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I didn't make the wording that was their choice...

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There is no doubt that RMT was not only allowed, but encouraged from the beginning. Only the company held herself out from any potential conflicts among RMT partners and waived any obligation. But it was clear that RMT was not only not forbidden but welcome.

 

At the time of the steam announcement it even seemed that the company was making efforts to preserve RMT in "OGWO" if possible. At least that was my impression from the wordings of the announcements and team comments. Only, the negotiation leverage of a game with 2k subscribers and maybe 20k accounts versus a company like Valve with a billion accounts and over 100M logging on daily is like a snowflake in a volcano.

 

And there is nothing to complain about. If the decline would have gone (or in worst case, will go) the way it was the years before, and the period from late summer to winter in particular (there seems to be some rebound atm, so let's see), RMT would have been or would be the least concern. There is no doubt that the company had to do something about, and whether the steam decision was the right one, time will tell.

Edited by Ekcin
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On 2/6/2020 at 11:26 AM, Angelklaine said:

This.

 

I don't get it. RMT is removed and suddenly the game is 'less interesting'. If you play the game for its fun factor, you'll continue to play it despite the RMT. You can't tell me you've played this game for years for how much fun it is, and then tell me it stopped being fun because you can no longer get a return on your investment. 

 

RMTers are always giving excuses about how innocent their effect on the game is, or how much the community needs them. But once the profits dissapear in a puff of smoke, they are gone. If you play the game for the sole purpose of making a profit and now you have decided to leave because you no longer can, then go. The game is better off without you.

 

That is how I feel about RMT.

 

I play the the game for fun and not to make money and its realy sad tos ee RMT gone. You see I don't have to much time to play and when I play I wanne do something creative, like building huge castles and stuff. With RMT gone, the people that provided the economy with a shitload of bulkitems to make a real time buck , will all disappear. I will have to make 10k bricks where before I could just buy them and have them delivered a few hours later. No matter what people say (market is overflowing with bulk, people will still craft and sell bulk, etc). This is simply not true. The demand WIL be higher then supply and I fear not being able to build what I want, when I want, is going to take the fun out of the game for me. I never sold any items or bulk for real time cash. But I fear that RMT will also affect people like me by a lot. I realy fear for the future of this game and that is because I love it so much.

 

Sham

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So another thing with account sharing


You said that a deed holder toon isnt allowed to be shared but what about a king?

What if you have a pmk and the king is away for a week or something or a day or whatever(like just gone to bed) and there is someone messing around destroying the pmk while people are trying to stop it but now because the king isnt around they cant kick that person out of the kingdom so in that sense i do believe that a king account should have an exception where a person can log in to a king account to do something like that even if it means having a gm be on the case to make sure that that person doesnt do anything else while on that king account
Either that or specific exceptions with specific cases should be written up to be allowed or else pmk's and such will be in trouble

Also to those who are saying "they are just trying to find loop holes" no in my case i am just trying to make sure that my playstyle and that of my friends does not mean that when this change goes in that we wake up and banned 1 day because of how our lives are

We dont need to ask for ways to get around it anyone with half a brain filled with basic networking knowledge can do it so thats not an issue we or anyone would ever have to bring it up

Anyway with account sharing i really do hope that we get proper clear rules on it ❤️

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11 hours ago, SmeJack said:

To be fair however the eula for the longest time specifically said rmt was allowed as they believed it was the players right to profit from their time.

 

3 hours ago, Ekcin said:

There is no doubt that RMT was not only allowed, but encouraged from the beginning. Only the company held herself out from any potential conflicts among RMT partners and waived any obligation. But it was clear that RMT was not only not forbidden but welcome.

 

Aye... that was the thinking of Rolf... I was surprised to see the ToS have been changed without us being warned as well... But hey, owner and leadership changes can do fun things.

 

Now wurm is just another one of those nameless MMos ToS wise... the kind where you don't expect a lot from them, specially since everything belongs to them (Yes, Rolf said your account and work on it belonged to you... no longuer the case, enjoy).

 

I just wonder how many bad reviews the game will get on Steam after the last changes and the staff interactions with us.

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15 minutes ago, Odynn said:

(Yes, Rolf said your account and work on it belonged to you... no longuer the case, enjoy).

You acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in the Account and that the account is under the sole ownership of Code Club AB.

 

this has been in since it was OneTooFree AB, you not owning your account or items isn't anything new.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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30 minutes ago, Odynn said:

Aye... that was the thinking of Rolf... I was surprised to see the ToS have been changed without us being warned as well... But hey, owner and leadership changes can do fun things.

 

We changed them with the announcement. We're changing it to reflect the new ruling everywhere 

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3 hours ago, shamflam said:

 

I play the the game for fun and not to make money and its realy sad tos ee RMT gone. You see I don't have to much time to play and when I play I wanne do something creative, like building huge castles and stuff. With RMT gone, the people that provided the economy with a shitload of bulkitems to make a real time buck , will all disappear. I will have to make 10k bricks where before I could just buy them and have them delivered a few hours later. No matter what people say (market is overflowing with bulk, people will still craft and sell bulk, etc). This is simply not true. The demand WIL be higher then supply and I fear not being able to build what I want, when I want, is going to take the fun out of the game for me. I never sold any items or bulk for real time cash. But I fear that RMT will also affect people like me by a lot. I realy fear for the future of this game and that is because I love it so much.

 

Sham

 

I do not expect to have bulks go away - it is quite likely that prices will crawl back to the "old" ones though.

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1 hour ago, Jaz said:

 

I do not expect to have bulks go away - it is quite likely that prices will crawl back to the "old" ones though.

 

We still need silver for deed upkeep and we can still use it to pay for premium so if someone is willing to part with silver there will be people willing to part with bricks.

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i would also agree that since RMT is coming and people cannot sell silver for real money alot of people will stop making bulks or selling cast or imping services, who need a surplus of silver that they can never sell,( but i do agree that  the games needs to a New RMT  cause it will make a better experience for new player so i  suggest another way to help the in game economy  add more NPC's to help improve equipment, cast spells and sell bulk items, let the game become the new supplier of services ,  have trading post around on the servers at different locations with merchant that do different things, like smithing and priest and sellers of bulk items and  farm aminals,  for i would buy silver from the game store and use it to support the game since everything will stay in house

 

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40 minutes ago, Russwoods said:

i would also agree that since RMT is coming and people cannot sell silver for real money alot of people will stop making bulks or selling cast or imping services, who need a surplus of silver that they can never sell,( but i do agree that  the games needs to a New RMT  cause it will make a better experience for new player so i  suggest another way to help the in game economy  add more NPC's to help improve equipment, cast spells and sell bulk items, let the game become the new supplier of services ,  have trading post around on the servers at different locations with merchant that do different things, like smithing and priest and sellers of bulk items and  farm aminals,  for i would buy silver from the game store and use it to support the game since everything will stay in house

 

pay 2 win shops?

literally kill any player interaction/trades/ and go to just shop to buy better gear/'chants and bulk/services/, that's your solution to fix... not sure what.. but.. read the start again, you're turning the sandbox and freedom to play it into wallet warrior-ing.
If the game wants to turn into a p2w subscription game and die in about 2 years, sure it could be the next Albion, but without the turning to free to play in the end.. just a last breath 2 years at best.

Hope these services npcs also offer affinities so there's no need to farm alts on chaos to buff your char or, maybe buy straight up skills, 'stp' and dragon armor with enchant that only heals damage and improves ql upon hits, decaying if not used.. buying new items that passively increase your skills and unlock rng tome abilities will be the next step.

Great future.

Edited by Finnn
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1 hour ago, Russwoods said:

i would also agree that since RMT is coming and people cannot sell silver for real money alot of people will stop making bulks or selling cast or imping services, who need a surplus of silver that they can never sell,( but i do agree that  the games needs to a New RMT  cause it will make a better experience for new player so i  suggest another way to help the in game economy  add more NPC's to help improve equipment, cast spells and sell bulk items, let the game become the new supplier of services ,  have trading post around on the servers at different locations with merchant that do different things, like smithing and priest and sellers of bulk items and  farm aminals,  for i would buy silver from the game store and use it to support the game since everything will stay in house

 

 

If NPCs are added whom can do everything players can do, it might as well be a single player game... There'd be no in game economy that way.

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2 hours ago, Russwoods said:

i would also agree that since RMT is coming and people cannot sell silver for real money alot of people will stop making bulks or selling cast or imping services, who need a surplus of silver that they can never sell,( but i do agree that  the games needs to a New RMT  cause it will make a better experience for new player so i  suggest another way to help the in game economy  add more NPC's to help improve equipment, cast spells and sell bulk items, let the game become the new supplier of services ,  have trading post around on the servers at different locations with merchant that do different things, like smithing and priest and sellers of bulk items and  farm aminals,  for i would buy silver from the game store and use it to support the game since everything will stay in house

 

If we have NPCs who imp, cast and create resources, then what would be the point in playing??? The loss of RMT may lead to a couple of players leaving the market, but that void will be filled quickly. Very few players are here to just make a quick buck. RMT doesn't do much for new players that buying silver doesn't already.

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In my group (3 players) we each have our mains and we share a number of deeds and accounts: storage alts (like 10 of them), puppet mayors  (1 per deed x3 deeds) and priests (Vyn, Fo, Mag).

 

I understand if a priest alt will have to be tied to a single player.

But can we still share storage alts and puppet mayors? 

They have zero skills.

It would be highly inconvenient if we cant share them because people are sometimes gone from the game for months.

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On 1/31/2020 at 3:24 PM, Retrograde said:
  • 1 month: 7.99 euro
  • 2 months: 15.99 euro 
  • 3 months: 20.49 euro (85% original price)
  • 6 months: 38.39 euro (80% original price)
  • 12 months: 67.19 euro (70% original price)

 

I was just looking over the OP post again. Was wondering what the benefit in paying more for 2 months then 1 month? Do we get extra couple marks or something?

(7.99 x 2=15.98)

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Also, that 12 months price is not 70% of original price when purchased via my bank.

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10 hours ago, griper said:

In my group (3 players) we each have our mains and we share a number of deeds and accounts: storage alts (like 10 of them), puppet mayors  (1 per deed x3 deeds) and priests (Vyn, Fo, Mag).

 

I understand if a priest alt will have to be tied to a single player.

But can we still share storage alts and puppet mayors? 

They have zero skills.

It would be highly inconvenient if we cant share them because people are sometimes gone from the game for months.

 

I assume that magic chests are going to be the main alternative to shared storage alts, now that they are more accessible with marks.

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3 hours ago, gorgian said:

I was just looking over the OP post again. Was wondering what the benefit in paying more for 2 months then 1 month? Do we get extra couple marks or something?

(7.99 x 2=15.98)

Just a rounding, the benefit would be not having to go through the payment system twice 

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NVM. I need coffee.

 

*wobbles off*

Thorin :)

Edited by Thorinoakshield
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