Retrograde

The Future of RMT in Wurm and Price Reductions

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1 hour ago, LordLouis said:

Steam won't produce any more players, the game is 90% garbage.

One of the most redeeming attributes it had was everything you put in you could get something back later if need be. Things you bought for outrageous prices, like a scale set, 200 euro? Lol. Was ok because , well it still has a value in real money.. You could grind thinking hell at least I could sell the toon for something one day if i got bored so not a total utter waste of time spending 6 years of my life to get 100 in something usless. 

This is going to happen and its not a discussion I know , I'm not forseeing a  great success though.

Rmt being a stong point for the game , many more items and a regulated auction house would have been a better idea, with cc taking a cut from player sales. 

A shop selling useless wank, rolfs gnomes sold out in a few hours, imagine what a whole shop full of decorations, clothes, skins , banners, whatever would have made.

Its a shame, i have had much love for wurm over the years, never made a penny out of it, until now while selling up before the deadline. I really hope these ideas work for you, can't see it personally though.

 

Im on the opposite side of the fence. With the RMTers gone people will stop being all about the money and more about their neighbors. The game will improve and it will be more pleasant to deal with one another.

 

Having your neighbor charge you 3 copper because you asked them to make you a sheet nearly pushed me off the game. Goodbye RMTers that brought nothing to the community. Good riddance.

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Having your neighbor charge you 3 copper because you asked them to make you a sheet

excuse me what

Edited by nekoexmachina

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22 minutes ago, nekoexmachina said:

excuse me what

The same type of people who would charge someone coins as “taxes” for living at their village

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49 minutes ago, nekoexmachina said:

excuse me what

Its a thing bud.

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6 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Im on the opposite side of the fence. With the RMTers gone people will stop being all about the money and more about their neighbors. The game will improve and it will be more pleasant to deal with one another.

 

Having your neighbor charge you 3 copper because you asked them to make you a sheet nearly pushed me off the game. Goodbye RMTers that brought nothing to the community. Good riddance.


I too believe this will be good in the long term.
I remember when sheets were an actual commodity lol

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7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Im on the opposite side of the fence. With the RMTers gone people will stop being all about the money and more about their neighbors. The game will improve and it will be more pleasant to deal with one another.

 

Having your neighbor charge you 3 copper because you asked them to make you a sheet nearly pushed me off the game. Goodbye RMTers that brought nothing to the community. Good riddance.

But you know, that after rmt wipe, neighbour will still charge 3 damn copper for sheet? Its up to the person not rmt itself.

 

And I kinda agree with LordLouis. I don't care if I will be able to sell toon and comodities when I leave the game. I never planned to. What's more, I never sold anything for rm. That's not what kept me on game for 10 years.

 

It's the idea itself, that I'm fully aware that everything i have, I did I got in this many years of Wurming has a real value. That my time spent in Wurm and you know as well as I do, how much time and efforts is needed to do anything in Wurm, has a real value. That I could if I want, get small revenue for this.

 

I brought to Wurm many real life friends, and every one of them was amazed that RMT exists in Wurm and this awareness was at least 50% of what made them play the game. 

 

Now everything I ever achieve in game become meaningless to me. Just like anything else in any other game. Wurm kinda became the regular game like many others, and that hurts a bit. Either by game changes in past year or by removing rmt I'm stripped out from everything I was fond of. 

 

And as I remind you, I never sold anything for real money.

 

Tho not like I even care of positive or negative changes in Wurm anymore. After all of that. I have where to go, finally, with Carrack release in SC by the end of the month lol. And yeah, in Star Citizen I still can, kinda sell my ships for real cash, but Star Citizen is new, slowly building up game that crashes everything in every finished feature and technology it brings to industry, not over 10 years old java based title. And I'm not the only one. Many of people who are leaving game dont even post on forum, so dont take the answers in this topic as the only true players voice, it isn't. And most of those peeps dont panic sell stuff either. It will just drop and decay silently.

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19 minutes ago, Alkhadias said:

It's the idea itself, that I'm fully aware that everything i have, I did I got in this many years of Wurming has a real value. That my time spent in Wurm and you know as well as I do, how much time and efforts is needed to do anything in Wurm, has a real value. ..

 

While I wish you all the best, I wonder whether money is "real value" for you.

 

I can say that my account and character indeed has value for me. It is the value of experiences, reminiscences, and achievements, the remembrance of all the time wasted :) in game, of all the friends, and even unfriendly ones met. No money can ever pay for.

 

I found the concept of being able to cash out your achievements always bit extravagant. I still see the advantage that it holds black markets and crime away from the game, so I cannot say that I outright cheer the demise of RMT. I also saw the disadvantage of empowering toxic players with sufficient cash. So I can say I am on neither side of the fence. But it is clear that along with the move towards steam, RMT became hardly sustainable.

 

As said, all the best and have fun whereever you go.

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26 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 

While I wish you all the best, I wonder whether money is "real value" for you.

 

I can say that my account and character indeed has value for me. It is the value of experiences, reminiscences, and achievements, the remembrance of all the time wasted :) in game, of all the friends, and even unfriendly ones met. No money can ever pay for.

 

I found the concept of being able to cash out your achievements always bit extravagant. I still see the advantage that it holds black markets and crime away from the game, so I cannot say that I outright cheer the demise of RMT. I also saw the disadvantage of empowering toxic players with sufficient cash. So I can say I am on neither side of the fence. But it is clear that along with the move towards steam, RMT became hardly sustainable.

 

As said, all the best and have fun whereever you go.

I get your point, perhaps you dont get mine. 

 

You are of course right, all these things together kept me in game for a long time. But you should know, just like me that every of these exists only in game. I spent so many great years in Wurm, I love to remind myself all the exciting adventures and projects with my wurm friends. So yeah, memories are in fact in my head forever and truly no money can buy it. But experience? Stays in game, everything i accomplished stays in game and is real only in game. Even friends are real only in game. Most of my beloved friends are gone, they left game years ago. And where are they now? I have no idea.

 

So yeah, cash in this terms is at least real. I can get it right away, and go buy some beer irl. And wurm friend regardless of how i love him, wont go with me on that beer to get drunk, clap some chicks and then pray to get sober or call to him when in danger or most need. Of course I knew some of them out of Wurm, but still only virtually, we live in different countries, sometimes continents. Its not our fault, games are on their own rules. And I play 90% mostly online games, most of them also for many years straight so I know all these values. I have them in every game. Rmt? In only one beside Wurm but also halfly legal. (Devs knows whats going on, but openly dont agree, also dont do anything as long as cash keeps flowing)

 

My last and best friend will probably leave next month, so? Regardless of how great my memories are, in fact I'll stay as the last man standing in my part of Xanadu. Building next memorable statuets. And I can handle that, but add to it everything i posted before and turns out, that sometimes enough is enough. 

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Its strange coming from other games where, when you stop playing or they essentially shut down, you can look at your account and say: I enjoyed my time here, look how much I achieved and be satisfied you got all that you could out have from that game. Especially ones which have associated costs, paying for the entertainment so to speak.

 

Yet here some people are going on about how they put time and effort into  playing this game and therefore they are owed an equal return. 

 

I'm thinking along the lines of sunk cost fallacy, but its not quite applicable due to the past encouraged(?) account selling.

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3 minutes ago, cccdfern said:

Its strange coming from other games where, when you stop playing or they essentially shut down, you can look at your account and say: I enjoyed my time here, look how much I achieved and be satisfied you got all that you could out have from that game. Especially ones which have associated costs, paying for the entertainment so to speak.

 

Yet here some people are going on about how they put time and effort into  playing this game and therefore they are owed an equal return. 

 

I'm thinking along the lines of sunk cost fallacy, but its not quite applicable due to the past encouraged(?) account selling.

This.

 

I don't get it. RMT is removed and suddenly the game is 'less interesting'. If you play the game for its fun factor, you'll continue to play it despite the RMT. You can't tell me you've played this game for years for how much fun it is, and then tell me it stopped being fun because you can no longer get a return on your investment. 

 

RMTers are always giving excuses about how innocent their effect on the game is, or how much the community needs them. But once the profits dissapear in a puff of smoke, they are gone. If you play the game for the sole purpose of making a profit and now you have decided to leave because you no longer can, then go. The game is better off without you.

 

That is how I feel about RMT.

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I leave here my thoughts.

 

I created my account 7 years ago and every time I play I always have in mind "How can I optimize my time to have a revenue?".

Now it will change and we will see what happens, for sure without RMT I will have less "stress" and maybe I will enjoy more the game! I will start spending my coins in the market instead of keep them to reach 1 gold and sell it via paypal.

 

Anyway, this change will not kill the game!

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2 minutes ago, Furek said:

Anyway, this change will not kill the game!

 

The real question is, will it resurrect the game

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

This.

 

I don't get it. RMT is removed and suddenly the game is 'less interesting'. If you play the game for its fun factor, you'll continue to play it despite the RMT. You can't tell me you've played this game for years for how much fun it is, and then tell me it stopped being fun because you can no longer get a return on your investment. 

 

RMTers are always giving excuses about how innocent their effect on the game is, or how much the community needs them. But once the profits dissapear in a puff of smoke, they are gone. If you play the game for the sole purpose of making a profit and now you have decided to leave because you no longer can, then go. The game is better off without you.

 

That is how I feel about RMT.

Tell me now, what is "fun factor" and why you believe its the same for everyone? And why you assume that I lost whole fun in Wurm? 

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I don't understand all the hate towards us, people that made a little cash. I you never engaged in RTM, why do you care? I keep hearing pay to win. There is no win in WO, not on freedom anyway. Nobody competes with his neighbor. I played for both reasons, fun and money. Until now, i never heard anyone complaining about me selling silver or bulk goods. 100% of the people i traded were happy, they had only good things to say about me being a real professional. So i did contribute to the community, a part of it anyway. And i worked hard for that money, i didn't steal it ...[14:21:33] You have played 411 days, 17 hours and 31 minutes. That's almost 9900 hours of actually being in game and plinkering at bricks and hammering nails in support beams and such, in 3 years time. And for that i payed over $1200 in premium time alone for my toons. Not to mention other purchases and deed upkeeps. And you know what? That's nothing compared to what other "damned" RTM-ers paid for the many priest alts they had in order to try to make a little cash. RMT made WO unique (believe me, i looked for alternatives, there are no viable ones), without it, it will be come a mediocre (yes, mediocre, let not kid ourselves, it's not a masterpiece of a game) sandbox, like so many out there. So please stop throwing dirt at people because they prefer to work for money.

Thank you!

Edited by Darkstorm
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33 minutes ago, Darkstorm said:

So please stop throwing dirt at people because they prefer to work for money.

 

Quote

work for money

this is delusion.

 

34 minutes ago, Darkstorm said:

I don't understand all the hate towards us, people that made a little cash.

i personally dont hate nor pity you, although i am happy that there would be no more rmt, especially for accounts. selling or buying ingame items for real world cash is kinda silly too, but i don't think its as harmful as account selling is.

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At the end of the day, realistically whether you support RMT or not, is nigh on impossible to truly enforce or police it. And this is true for pretty much any MMO. Only thing you can do is ban the people who actively and openly do it, to their own foolishness.

 

Example: I also play WoW Classic from time to time and I see similar situations in a discord channel for WoW. Player X wants to sell a good item with super stats to player Y not  for in game gold but RL cash. Difference is you can't buy Gold legally in WoW classic, but I doubt Blizzard would support it.

 

Even now, when RMT prohibition will come into effect in WO, players can still sell (at an obvious risk) in game stuff for RL cash. People can still sell drake sets for 100$ for example via paypal transactions and risk getting banned for it. I am sure some will get creative at it.

 

But at the end of the day, that RL cash can be mediated through in game silvers, that's the whole point of this update.  Player x makes the sell. Player Y gets his item. CCAR makes money off the transaction by having silvers purchased in game. It does not impede the economy in any way. It just helps support the game in the end.

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On 2/1/2020 at 7:24 AM, Retrograde said:
  • 6 months: 38.39 euro (80% original price)
  • 12 months: 67.19 euro (70% original price)

 

was looking at the shop to buy premium on an alt

 

"12 months premium time
67.19 €
You save 16.69 €!" 
67.19+16.69 is 83.88 euro, but 12 months at the 1/2 month rate would be 96 euro, so that should be 28.81 euro saved if it's comparing to the 8e/month option which i assume is the base price. whats it comparing to, to get 6.99 euro/month, doesn't match up with any of the shop options

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

was looking at the shop to buy premium on an alt

 

"12 months premium time
67.19 €
You save 16.69 €!" 
67.19+16.69 is 83.88 euro, but 12 months at the 1/2 month rate would be 96 euro, so that should be 28.81 euro saved if it's comparing to the 8e/month option which i assume is the base price. whats it comparing to, to get 6.99 euro/month, doesn't match up with any of the shop options

We goofed it up, was meant to compare to the base one month price. Thanks for letting us know, will be fixed.

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16 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Im on the opposite side of the fence. With the RMTers gone people will stop being all about the money and more about their neighbors. The game will improve and it will be more pleasant to deal with one another.

 

Having your neighbor charge you 3 copper because you asked them to make you a sheet nearly pushed me off the game. Goodbye RMTers that brought nothing to the community. Good riddance.

I don't see the fuss with RMT, it was a benefit for the players. The online store is/was a joke. buying silver from the online store was a complete rip off so other players sold it for equal amounts. And yes Angelklaine some people were/are ridiculous with their prices but you ignored them and moved on to someone that was more inline of what your are willing to spend. RMT kept this game alive and now the removal of it this game is going to DIE they are removing RMT and then they have the nerve to think that putting it on steam would be their life saver but all in all it will be the death of WO. 

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1 hour ago, Ismira said:

I don't see the fuss with RMT, it was a benefit for the players. The online store is/was a joke. buying silver from the online store was a complete rip off so other players sold it for equal amounts. And yes Angelklaine some people were/are ridiculous with their prices but you ignored them and moved on to someone that was more inline of what your are willing to spend. RMT kept this game alive and now the removal of it this game is going to DIE they are removing RMT and then they have the nerve to think that putting it on steam would be their life saver but all in all it will be the death of WO. 

 

Why would it cause the game to die and how did it keep the game alive to begin with? What has kept the game alive for me has nothing to do with RMT. Community is a great part of what kept things alive for me, and new interesting features over the years, but RMT? It has kept old accounts in circulation forever, keeping the market saturated with high skilled crafters and priests. And the players who didn't partake in RMT had to deal with high prices in the official shop. The removal of RMT has made it possible to greatly slash both premium and silver prices. The RMT prices from before these changes are pretty much equal to the shop silver prices after, and the loyalty system has been added on top of it to boot. So this is a massive improvement for the majority of the player base and will surely help new player retention as well, as the game is now quite a bit less expensive.

 

Yes, it really sucks for people whose entire game play has revolved around selling goods and silver for euro as their entire way of play is going away and that always sucks. Some will find new goals and ways to enjoy Wurm and others will unfortunately move on, that's the way of such impactful decisions. Yet if I look at what we're getting in return for removing RMT, then I can't help but think that it is the right move forward in the long run and I hope the people whose game play revolved around RMT can find a way to still enjoy Wurm without that. It's also vital for compatibility with Steam, so I can also understand the importance for the devs that RMT is axed, even if I don't expect much of a miracle from Steam itself with how over-saturated it is with games, I do still hope it pans out for Wurm's sake.

Edited by Ecrir
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14 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

The removal of RMT has made it possible to greatly slash both premium and silver prices. The RMT prices from before these changes are pretty much equal to the shop silver prices after, and the loyalty system has been added on top of it to boot. So this is a massive improvement for the majority of the player base and will surely help new player retention as well, as the game is now quite a bit less expensive.

 

It should have been done way earlier. Wurm price system was utterly outdated compared to all the F2P games on the market that run through cash shops.. or one time buy with a premium goodies shop. Lower price for bulk premium purchase is good (and was already the case for 12 months for the price of 10 back then). And it's finally great that the silvers prices are the same on Xsolla and Paypal and INLINE with the PLAYER RMT market. Gotta note that some steam games use RMT as well, but through the steam market or similar systems... so a whole removal of RMT was uneccessary

 

14 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Community is a great part of what kept things alive for me [...]

 

Community is a great part of what kept a lot of us playing... though logging in these days to find 4 friends online instead of the usual dozen, your alliance empty... your server at 1/4 of what it used to be one year ago is not a good sign for the community... if the community dies... the game dies.

 

We still lack the traders answers which will keep or not some members of the community in the game. Some are glad the old timers will leave, frustrated by all the changes and hope for more drastical change... the question is what will be left of the game when the community is gone and the changes finally happens?

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6 hours ago, Ismira said:

I don't see the fuss with RMT, it was a benefit for the players. The online store is/was a joke. buying silver from the online store was a complete rip off so other players sold it for equal amounts. And yes Angelklaine some people were/are ridiculous with their prices but you ignored them and moved on to someone that was more inline of what your are willing to spend. RMT kept this game alive and now the removal of it this game is going to DIE they are removing RMT and then they have the nerve to think that putting it on steam would be their life saver but all in all it will be the death of WO. 

 

I don't know how you got to that, but every cent not spend in the game, but actually leaving it, killed it.

 

As mentioned by Elentari before, the money used to buy premium and silvers is actually flowing to Code Club and thus the devellopers; who in turn can come up and implement new stuff and fix bugs.

If however that money flows OUT of the game towards players, the dev's can't use it to make this game even better as it already is.

 

Or perhaps look at it like this:

You go to a supermarket to buy things and pay for it with money.

The cashier then takes the money and uses it to buy things for him- / herself, instead of handing it over to the supermaket manager, who could use it to buy that new refridgerator or add other goods to his stock.

I doubt the supermarket would last long, or that the cashier would be walk free.

 

Yet when it happens in Wurm it's considered as a normal thing and removing it would actually be considered a bad move?

That's imho a worse joke as I've seen in some Adam Sandler movies.

 

As for my personal stance:

 

I've never sold items to have them being turned into real money and I never intended to do so. I've always thought that using a game like Wurm to make money isn't the right thing to do. If you want to make money with a game, go play poker or something like that.

Instead, every time I bought something, I paid with silvers in game as that was the only and "official" currency and I will do that after the change too, as in a way it won't affect me.

 

As for all those comments about banning RMT  will be killing the bulk trade:

 

that's complete ######.

Bulk items always will be needed, no matter if  they're paid for with silvers or euro's or dollars.

Perhaps we will see a large influx of bulk items the moment all the RMT players leave the game and their deeds will be looted; but over time the market will become stable again and with the new influx of players most likely having enough sales to even improve.

A large part of that influx may actually be low ql materials, "us veteran" players can't use, but it would be perfect for the newer players having low skills. And if not..... Well, if a new player wants to use 70ql sandstone bricks to build a 15ql wall, who am I to stop him / her for it.

Fact is that the silvers paid for those bricks will flow back into the game when I use them to pay for the upkeep of my deed; as it was intended to be done.

 

And frankly speaking I'm glad that change finally happens, as I've seen with the RM-auction house in Diablo III what greed can do to players. For  those who don't know; that one didn't last long after it was found out players were selling the very first unique anyone could find for 90-100 USD.

 

 

Thorin :) 

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11 hours ago, Mormo said:

 

The real question is, will it resurrect the game

No, rmts weren't killing the game.

 

Partially rmt was making the game unique and different for offering any of that, as @Alkhadiasmentioned..

Either first or one of first ever articles I've read about wurm was about CC or Rolf trying to get auctions going for virtual pixel item... auctions IRL I think... (it was something like that..)
Than I thought these guys aren't playing around, this game does something different and unique(afaik no other does or have done anything similar);

 

I have barely sold a few small items for silver in the game, it's more symbolical than making me pixel 'income', never sold anything for irl cash, bought a few referrals at start, 1-2 months at token with silver maybe and rest was time bought with the 2x prem month packs from the webshop.(why not more? playing 2-4-6months that way and wurm wogic and drama sets in.. and I need some break from it;    8s a month was making much more sense than paying 10+10euro per month.. for 2 months instead; new discount brings no change to any of that, buying 2 prem months at once costs 0.01euro more.. makes more sense to buy 2 and rip the company with 2x transaction fees.. wogic....who does this math..)

 

While before you used to have ownership of your character/items/etc and be able to sell it, now you won't be able to.. will that solve the problem with people mass producing items, no.. if somebody quits.. will still sell as it's 1 last time thing s/he does.. gets or not a ticket out of the game.. and some cash for it..; alternatively.. accounts will be given away to closest friend etc.. and such accounts will continue to live on and be passed around people, not being able to sell an account won't be fixing any of the market issues with supply of high ql items and many old accounts with high skills.(NO IDEA why several people have the special utopian world in their heads with no high level accounts and the perfect market being reborn)

 

Now.. wurm is about to turn into just a regular subscription model game, you get to pay to play, you get to buy currency or whatever the shop offers for RL money.

I do believe what @LordLouissaid about microtransactions.. but wurm does not seem to like that.. for some reason, I think I remember reading a few times(not from staff/devs, other responses on forums and game's chat).. that such shop or items will break the game and make it pay to win(yea.. like a brand new decorated golden wagon skin is going to break the game.. if you could buy such from the shop for 50s.. and show the locals who's 'boss'), and such... I do not believe that.. plenty of worse things have happened and none of them is going to bring anything close of income that other things put in the shop could have.

Explaining 2 other faulty thoughts about accounts and changes will definitely get this moderated.. let's skip talking about that..

 

I'm not a fan of subscription games per say, I'm not a fan of go-to-work - get-home-play-for-few(4-6+)-hours-every-day model.. wurm and it's events, missions, rifts, uniques, unless you spend unhealthy amount of time on these you miss out and get put behind with no way to catch up; not perfect for a sandbox, not perfect in the long-term play.

I NEED a content WIN.. to win me again to play the game.. but lately the only thing that keeps me around are the people I know from wurm, rather than the content or changes happening or about to.

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I have nothing against RMT, otherwise I wouldnt be playing this game. I have many friends who made money with the game, including people like Goldfever who are great people and whom have helped me lots. What I have something against is the people who are trash talking the game now that they cant no longer make any money out of it. If you don't like the game thats fine, just move on, but that fallacy that the game will die out without RMT is just that, a fallacy. Its an argument brought forward by people who need validation for what they do.

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31 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I have nothing against RMT, otherwise I wouldnt be playing this game. I have many friends who made money with the game, including people like Goldfever who are great people and whom have helped me lots. What I have something against is the people who are trash talking the game now that they cant no longer make any money out of it. If you don't like the game thats fine, just move on, but that fallacy that the game will die out without RMT is just that, a fallacy. Its an argument brought forward by people who need validation for what they do.

 

If the game was killing it all these years I wouldn't disagree, people don't always seek validation as much as the constant argument the game will be fine without " insert this months new decision ", if you think the game hasn't been dieing for years and removing RMT is the thing that will turn it around ... I don't have the words.

 

 

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