Retrograde

The Future of RMT in Wurm and Price Reductions

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2 Weeks after I started playing I was set and committed to ride this ship down with everyone on board. 

Now one of my concerns is with all these "investigations" when something suspicious happens like @olafhairybreeksstated, "will our private conversations be compromised" and if so will "volunteers" and others  posible-biased entities be the ones doing the compromising or is  there going to be a whole new set of paid staff separate from the game to look into these investigations? @Retrograde

Edited by Legios
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Why are so many trying to figure out how they can push the limits on account sharing, instead of accepting sharing accounts is not allowed?

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2 hours ago, Legios said:

2 Weeks after I started playing I was set and committed to ride this ship down with everyone on board. 

Now one of my concerns is with all these "investigations" when something suspicious happens like @olafhairybreeksstated, "will our private conversations be compromised" and if so will "volunteers" and others  posible-biased entities be the ones doing the compromising or is  there going to be a whole new set of paid staff separate from the game to look into these investigations? @Retrograde

 

Users have no right or reasonable expectation of privacy for anything typed in the game or on the forums.

Edited by Beanbag

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can we please just add sleep powder 1s/euro on the shop so i can go broke every payday while supporting the game

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13 hours ago, Ols said:

 

I've managed to play Wurm for 12 years (on and off) and not engaged in any RMT. If anything I've had more fun because of it. Everything I own is the result of work I've put in myself ingame, which I find more satisfying. If people can't have fun without RMT then I think that reflects the need for changes to occur ingame, such as reducing the barrier to entry in PvP or making it easier to obtain and train a priest.

 

I too never RMTed, but Rolf was always wanting people to do bitcoin or fine with it, personally I could care less, tough to call people out for engaging in what the game developer started years ago. 

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10 hours ago, Odynn said:

I am one of the persons with disabilities playing Wurm, my 'beautiful' country is nice enough to give me an incapacity pension... but i cannot spend 10% of it on a game between the premium cost (good thing for the yearly price reduction, maybe not so much for the account sharing - priests for example) and the deed upkeeps. Specially in a game where the line of defense is DEED IT OR LOOSE IT... giving complete leeway to the griefers.

 

This matter for me is a question of staying or leaving the game... not one of making some money out of it, but saving 70€ monthly to keep fond memories made over my 10+ years old journey in wurm alive... and keep heritaged status canal landmarked.

 

Personally, I feel that if this is a concern of yours for the sole reason of keeping your deed(s) up, perhaps it would be better to ask about reduced upkeep costs that would benefit everyone instead of trader deeds that benefit the select few who have them (DESPITE the amount of effort that was put into them, or that it has taken to keep them operational). I know that personally I am planning on dropping deeds, including one that I have had for nearly 8 years on Inde, simply because of the upkeep costs associated with it, and the fact that I will no longer be able to purchase reduced coin prices from players.

 

I understand that removing RMT is good for the game and I applaud the devs for taking seemingly drastic changes despite Wurm's history, but I feel that deed upkeep, including decay on deed, should be looked at further, hopefully alongside the upcoming updates and rule/policy changes.

 

With that said, do keep in mind if you are actively playing, it should in theory still be possible to pay for upkeep and premium in-game with silver earned in-game, but I suspect that it will most likely be substantially harder that it is now to do so.

 

 

1 hour ago, ChampagneDragon said:

Why are so many trying to figure out how they can push the limits on account sharing, instead of accepting sharing accounts is not allowed?

 

I think it's because Retrograde has clarified that account sharing between "one or two" people is ok, and people are concerned by what exactly this means, since "one or two people" could be up for interpretation. What if for example, we have a couple who are playing together and share their accounts, and they for some reason lose access to playing for an undetermined amount of time..... can they in theory have someone log into their accounts to ensure everything is ok? I think it's these kinds of things that need to be set in stone, is all, before people are comfortable. :)

Edited by Xallo
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this has been the most heated debate..

i am happy for the changes i see some may see it as a step towards a brighter future of Wurm, and i only see a few who think its a foot in the grave for Wurm, the fact remains that this has been a hard decision on the devs part, and even harder legalese currently being written for the terms and conditions contract update to come.  

 

my thoughts categorically

 

removing RTM for silver, goods, and services its a good thing for those of us who don't buy silver from other players and instead choose to support the ones who actually make the game i love, not to mention i absolutely hate "buy my silver" spam in trade i hated it in WoW before i found WO and i hate seeing it in this game too. The only draw back i see is that it will make a few of the "whales" leave the game i'm sure there are others willing to take their place anyway, and tbh that's really a petty reason to quit a game, and Wurm is better off without the pettiness.

 

removing account trading/selling, this is one of the very few MMORPGs that i have ever seen with this allowed so it honestly makes sense to remove this however if people would of read the whole thing instead of latching onto the denial of the sale of, trading of, and public use of account/ alts, they would of seen this, " We will be adjusting our stance towards shared accounts. Your account may be shared on a personal basis (i.e. a family member or a close friend)"  so being able to log onto a family members priest alt to enchant a item for yourself or someone else,  logging a friends main to help maintain their deed while they are away,  or having someone trusted do that for you isn't a part of this change. i'm sure they have ways to monitor this or the other type of account activity even with the IP issue I've seen brought up, it is just a tighter leash on the true "pay to win" aspect of the game, and the way a person can instead of working on their own toon and earning their skills they can just buy a "WIN" toon and not have to work to get the goals and achievements that so many of us have had to work years to get. 

 

the trader mechanic update, to this i say yes for one reason i have never had a trader since I've began playing i have lived my life entirely on Xanadu i have however always wanted one of my own and am excited to see them come to my home server it will make my deed that much better. 

 

the store update,  i have always thought that the prices were fair in general if only slightly high from a USD standpoint, but with the update, and price reduction it is now on par for what i would expect to pay. i can now look forward to spending more of my money on the game since the changes have made it more affordable for me to be able to purchase my silver and premium, since i tend to buy the bundles anyway, and with the loyalty system i am even more encouraged to use the shop. my one and only complaint is the price of the 2 month sub is still a bit high i think if it were reduced to something like 13-14 euro that would be right about where it should be...

 

the Steam server addition, i like it and i understand why this one is being done, this is more about consolidation of resources and integration of both systems, making it easier for devs to work on updates for both games without having to separate resources or time, so yes i'm sure money was a huge motivator for this one, both for new player exposure and reduction of production development costs internally.

 

final thought, this was a tough decision for everyone at that table i'm sure, however the only negatives i can see with these changes is the people complaining about them, to them i say sometimes its the hard choice that is the right one, everything here is well within the realm of what other mmorpgs are like and what is expected and i have wondered why this hasn't been done long before now... and as far as my Wurm forum credit score i am a lurker most times so im not active on the forum however many of you know i am a active member of the Wurm in-game community and if your basing my credibility on forum activity 

 

and now a few ideas to leave a post on a good note,

  1. an auctioneer contract, this would be a purchasable contract from a trader, like a wagonier, merchant, or trader it would follow the same rules as the merchant and trader needing to be placed in a building or merchant booth only on a deed (or even a special auctioneer podium) if the deed the auctioneer is a part of is disbanded the auctioneer would disband with it and return the contract to the purchaser.  upon opening a trade window with them they will display a large searchable tabbed window one tab for smalls(i.e. weapons, tools, rares, armor, ect.) these items could be stacked up to 50 units of the same small item, one tab for bulk items (i.e. stone, dirt, bricks, ect.) this tab would only show things in full large or small crates, and a third tab for posting items for sale. the auctioneer would have a listing of items put onto them from players on  any deed that has a auctioneer or any starter deed auctioneer anywhere on freedom server  the auctioneer would work in congress with the wagonier for bulk items and would use the mail box system for small items it would not be able to sell horses or anything that cannot use either of those automatic delivery systems. the auctioneer would take a small portion of the sale of any item like 10% this would be in-game revenue to either the deed the auctioneer is a part of or the contract holder  this would be chosen during placement of the auctioneer. as well as sale price if it will be a buy it now type auction or a timed open bid auction.  mailing/shipping would be free "included" paid for buy the seller during auction posting in the cost of posting said item(s). to post a item for sale in the auction it would be a tab in the auction widow that a person would be able to drag and drop items into either from their inventory or in cases of bulk items from a wagon or cart in crates (yes the auctioneer has huge magical pockets that can accommodate large/ small crates), the crates could be inspected and openable (or even have details of the contents) for view by the perspective buyer as to insure everything is in order with the contents of the crate, the price for the crate would be added to the price by the seller. upon the purchase or closing of an auction the money spent by the buyer would be deposited into the sellers account. the auctioneer would use the closest wagonier on the server the buyer is on and accepts the delivery on.
  2. Money management update, this is a quality of life update, one that fits well these new changes that are being talked about here. one thing that has frustrated me more times than i care to count is how the silver and money is used and managed in this game, i.e. if im going to a merchant or trader to buy something i have to go find a deeds token to make a withdraw to make a purchase from a npc. that's not mentioning if i'm far into the wilds i should be able to deposit my discovered coins without having to move my bank account to different deed the money management should be its own option at any token where i could withdraw or deposit freely anywhere.  it should also be possible to mail silver to alts and by alts i mean toons that share the same email like i would like to be able to send my priest silver without having to use the cod scraps this could help the control of "post update" possible suspicious transactions.  to this extent if there was a visible line, box, or window on the inventory window that would show current silver in your account, the ability to withdraw money and trade money to players would still be the same there would just be a few accounting QoL update, is this a cure-all no it isn't but it will help with the management of certain money management issues i've found in my years of playing
  3. large item wagonier container something that will allow us to ship large items i.e. forges, ovens, tables, bulk storage units, large chests just to name a few off the top of my head.  

 

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To be honest, an auctioneer representative that would connect one merchant to a cross-server auction house (located on Indy perhaps?) would be awesome.

 

There are a lot of merchants in game that never sell their wares due to players simply not coming across them.

 

Pros of it is that the auctioneer can take a cut out of any sale , perhaps 10% but it would create an interface to see what is on the market, for what prices and so forth.

 

I know it seems like a huge thing to code right now, but at the moment our economy is still based on players hawking their wares on the same channel every day.  While that is good to have, issue is, it's tiring to scroll through walls of text at times.

 

I would definitely love to open an auction-house interface, search for a "Supreme horse shoe" , see the seller and talk to him. You don't even need to automatize the process of buying it if you don't want to but at least centralize everything that's on the market. You can still keep the spirit of wurm alive by manually contacting the player or sending him an ingame message through the AH that he receives on login.

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1 hour ago, elentari said:

I would definitely love to open an auction-house interface, search for a "Supreme horse shoe" , see the seller and talk to him. You don't even need to automatize the process of buying it if you don't want to but at least centralize everything that's on the market. You can still keep the spirit of wurm alive by manually contacting the player or sending him an ingame message through the AH that he receives on login.

Game for sure could list a data of items with prices from all the merchants on the serwer in form of the table, with search window for filters etc.

If someone wants to list his merchant items then there could be additional check box in merchant setting "list merchant items for auctioneer".

 

You could open a list in form of window at Auctioneer NPC in few locations. Plain and simple.

 

Also new item buyable at trader: Merchant crate. Don't know how much it should cost.

While in inventory, you can fill merchant crate with bulk items (like stone bricks etc), up to it's volume, so could be like 300 for bricks and few thousands for corn etc. Then you can pass item for merchant.

Players checking merchant, could see, hovering over crate, what's inside and price of whole crate ofc.

 

To prevent using it as a mobile storage on alts:

- first, when filled with bricks for example, you cannot move with it for obvious reasons like weight

- if you decide to keep it at character, it gets like 10% of dmg each hour

- can be kept only in character inventory or on the merchant

Thus, after filling this up, only reasonable thing to do is put it on the merchant.

 

After buying crate from merchant, you must remember to reload it's content to vehicle or other cargo before it decays. Then, you can use crate to put on your merchant or it just decay on you like in 10 hours.

Edited by Wilczan

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23 hours ago, Retrograde said:

You'll be fine

On that subject can i ask as well would the following be fine im honestly asking this

Ip at home that chances every 24 hours(some isps do this)
combined with play from work via mobile data(every time you connect new ip)
combined with play from 1 more other location that has a dynamic ip
all ip's show same place as nz isp's do not provide exact geolocation of ip (in my case its often put at -36.8667 174.7667 coordinates on google map)
total pc's used in this 2

Would the following still be okay considering it is still 1 person doing it(this totals to around 20-25 different ips a week most coming from mobile data) after all if what ever is put in place ends up flagging me for sharing an account i can think of plenty who would too so i really would like to know beforehand so that i can try and attempt to make needed changes to my current setup as i rather not wake up 1 day and see a ban screen :(

I hope we can have an answer to such a situation based on current info on that proposed plan
 

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I doubt ccar would reveal their mechanism for tracking ips. There are plenty of smart people in wurm that could use that info for nefarious purposes. Account sharing is probably the hottest topic atm due to most of us having alts that were shared at one point. Bank alts of freedom are pointless but priest alts have been the norm due to game design. Main concern is seeing priest alts banned, not mains. Thats the issue. as for bank alts, why not extend the token bank slots to 20-30 slots? 

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1 minute ago, elentari said:

I doubt ccar would reveal their mechanism for tracking ips. There are plenty of smart people in wurm that could use that info for nefarious purposes. Account sharing is probably the hottest topic atm due to most of us having alts that were shared at one point. Bank alts of freedom are pointless but priest alts have been the norm due to game design. Main concern is seeing priest alts banned, not mains. Thats the issue. as for bank alts, why not extend the token bank slots to 20-30 slots? 

Id say its mostly pvp kingdom shared toons that are affected the most but my concern isnt how they would track it(its really easy and any time i mention it its a deleted post) but my concern is me just playing and wurm being part of my day as to how its scheduled in(i got an hour on public transport commute where i sit on a bus with ample room for a laptop and i have this twice a day)

so if they set some low random amount of max ip's before a flag/gm issuing a ban i would rather know beforehand instead of wake up 1 day log in and find my account that is ancient old banned because of too many ips being used on it as we all know this only needs to happen to 2-3 people and they just need to be vocal before a giant dramafest breaks out again so i would rather know if my playstyle will be safe yes or no so that i can avoid getting banned while sticking to the rules

and its not that it matters that they where shared at one point its that from that day forward that they cant be shared beyond a few people they said 1-2 people is fine but how does it translate to 1 person with multiple ip's they gave a "yes this is fine" to a low but steady amount of changes but what about a semi high amount of changes all from 2 machines its a legit concern of mine that because i can play on my way to work and after work hours(gotta wait 30-40 min on my bus most of the time) that by playing wurm then it would lead to a ban

so a simple "we will look into this and figure something out but you should be fine" or "with our current system this wont be fine" or something like that would put my mind at rest and i think some other people too(in a discord i sit in we had a talk about this just before as a bunch of us are in a similar situation as me)

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32 minutes ago, wipeout said:

On that subject can i ask as well would the following be fine im honestly asking this

Ip at home that chances every 24 hours(some isps do this)
combined with play from work via mobile data(every time you connect new ip)
combined with play from 1 more other location that has a dynamic ip
all ip's show same place as nz isp's do not provide exact geolocation of ip (in my case its often put at -36.8667 174.7667 coordinates on google map)
total pc's used in this 2

Would the following still be okay considering it is still 1 person doing it(this totals to around 20-25 different ips a week most coming from mobile data) after all if what ever is put in place ends up flagging me for sharing an account i can think of plenty who would too so i really would like to know beforehand so that i can try and attempt to make needed changes to my current setup as i rather not wake up 1 day and see a ban screen :(

I hope we can have an answer to such a situation based on current info on that proposed plan
 

23 hours ago, Retrograde said:

You'll be fine

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

thank you retro :P

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2 hours ago, wipeout said:

Id say its mostly pvp kingdom shared toons that are affected the most but my concern isnt how they would track it(its really easy and any time i mention it its a deleted post) but my concern is me just playing and wurm being part of my day as to how its scheduled in(i got an hour on public transport commute where i sit on a bus with ample room for a laptop and i have this twice a day)

so if they set some low random amount of max ip's before a flag/gm issuing a ban i would rather know beforehand instead of wake up 1 day log in and find my account that is ancient old banned because of too many ips being used on it as we all know this only needs to happen to 2-3 people and they just need to be vocal before a giant dramafest breaks out again so i would rather know if my playstyle will be safe yes or no so that i can avoid getting banned while sticking to the rules

and its not that it matters that they where shared at one point its that from that day forward that they cant be shared beyond a few people they said 1-2 people is fine but how does it translate to 1 person with multiple ip's they gave a "yes this is fine" to a low but steady amount of changes but what about a semi high amount of changes all from 2 machines its a legit concern of mine that because i can play on my way to work and after work hours(gotta wait 30-40 min on my bus most of the time) that by playing wurm then it would lead to a ban

so a simple "we will look into this and figure something out but you should be fine" or "with our current system this wont be fine" or something like that would put my mind at rest and i think some other people too(in a discord i sit in we had a talk about this just before as a bunch of us are in a similar situation as me)

 

Hypothetical situation:

 

Wipeout and his alts log on from IP A, B, C, D and 100 of other IPS. This is fine, dynamic IP.

Locath and his alts log on from IP E, F, G, H and lots of others. Also dynamic IP, also fine.

One of Wipeout's alts connects from the same IPs as Locath; they are sharing the toon as friends for deed maintenance/permission management/silly pranks on one another. This is also fine.

The same alt starts connecting from Ireland, Canada, Mozambique, China, India and Brazil on a daily basis, while sharing IP with other players - This character will be investigated most likely.

 

 

Edited by Locath

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11 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

Hypothetical situation:

 

Wipeout and his alts log on from IP A, B, C, D and 100 of other IPS. This is fine, dynamic IP.

Locath and his alts log on from IP E, F, G, H and lots of others. Also dynamic IP, also fine.

One of Wipeout's alts connects from the same IPs as Locath; they are sharing the toon as friends for deed maintenance/permission management/silly pranks on one another. This is also fine.

The same alt starts connecting from Ireland, Canada, Mozambique, China, India and Brazil on a daily basis - This character will be investigated most likely.

 

 

Now lets add in smaller range different states in the usa or provinces elsewhere

But then you run into issues with countries who do not share geolocation(like new zealand) accurately enough so you could potentially have 20 people who live in the same country(good luck finding that but you know what if) still get away with it and that is where my original thought came from most systems that are used either rely on hwid or mac or a combination of the 2 or something similar to an unique identifier which either get spoofed locally sooner or later or rely on a ip address setup which could lead to false issues due to loads of travel or inaccurate reporting in countries but as it stands the last part should be fineish based on current replies

Honestly though i am curious how they will implement it as it will be interesting to see their take on this issue purely from a IT standpoint not even as a gamer

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26 minutes ago, wipeout said:

Now lets add in smaller range different states in the usa or provinces elsewhere

But then you run into issues with countries who do not share geolocation(like new zealand) accurately enough so you could potentially have 20 people who live in the same country(good luck finding that but you know what if) still get away with it and that is where my original thought came from most systems that are used either rely on hwid or mac or a combination of the 2 or something similar to an unique identifier which either get spoofed locally sooner or later or rely on a ip address setup which could lead to false issues due to loads of travel or inaccurate reporting in countries but as it stands the last part should be fineish based on current replies

Honestly though i am curious how they will implement it as it will be interesting to see their take on this issue purely from a IT standpoint not even as a gamer

 

I don't think it will boil down to geolocation. Just sharing IP with other players who clearly are not the owner. Probably doesn't matter where in the world or what specific IP is the toon connecting from but if it shares the IP with multiple other players who are never the same (a.k.a. my other characters, those would always share the IP, no matter where it's pointing to. Yours would connect from a separate IP to mine, always. Unless playing from a college campus maybe?). 

 

so if my accounts connect from IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx and yours are connecting from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxy but one of the characters connects from both, it's clearily shared. Rest of my toons won't connect from your IP unless i give you access to all of them just to populate your IP on all of them.

 

Still, we can share the toon, 2 or 3 people can. Problems come when the character follows the sun and is a character who connects along with my toons, yours, Retro's and 7 other people's and they each have a bunch of toons connecting from the same IP at the time, except that one toon is connecting from their IP, mine, yours and so on.

 

All that is already collected even by WU, probably to a bigger extent in WO, just a matter of automating the analysis/alerting.

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personally think Steam should be its own Wurm Online server and the old servers never connect. make the steam server account bound to your steam account and then you wont have the huge account sharing issue keeping the steam servers fresh.

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On 1/31/2020 at 5:37 PM, Mclavin said:

This is good change overall

Don't I see you always in trade with wtb some character or another? like literally every week.

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On 2/1/2020 at 4:48 AM, Vooch said:

 

 

Bravo 👏

Edited by Ismira

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I am sadden to say that I will be stepping away. 😂

 

I slowed down my game play with Wurm Online because of the level of commitment that is required to play this game; and now from my understanding you're going to be taking yet another thing away from players like me.

 

1. I buy bulk goods. (I don't have the time to spend 10+/hrs in a game)

2. RMT (I paid for a character and that was to help due to the amount of time it takes to do the simplest of things in Wurm Online)

3. Wurm Unlimited 

 

I officially started stepping away from Wurm Online for the last 6/mo due to time (with Wurm Online having no thoughts for QoL of their players) and finances,  although I held onto my acct with the hopes of eventually coming back here and there to play,  I guess you made that decisions a lot easier for me to not come back. Lets not forget about the expense for WO. (I know some don't agree but Wurm Online is expensive at least for me ). You know when I couldn't afford to pay for the premium for Wurm Online I would go and get my fix for Wurm and play from Wurm Unlimited but now you have even taken that away from me and hundreds of other players, but to top this all off you did all this with very little notice to your community just like you are doing now (it's a slap in the face really).

 

In my opinion, yes, yes I know it does not matter to you, but my opinion all the same, if we mattered to you; I'm sure you would of talked to your community and shared with us your thoughts before you decided to take such a huge leap and run with all these drastic changes so damn fast (I am literally suffering from whiplash with all these changes and a really short time). seeing as we are the ones keeping this game alive and all that. 🤷‍♀️.

 

I Bet you didn't know that quite a few people came from Wurm Unlimited  to Wurm Online do to it being advertised on the Wurm Unlimited launcher, WU should never have been pushed off and abandoned, hell It brought me to WO 4/years ago. 🥴

 

This all is just starting to sound so familiar to me. There is this game called Life is Feudal (very similar to WO/WU), i'm sure you heard of them right? they had this awesome idea and made tons of money from their players and decided to launch a MMO with that income, once the MMO was up and running they said "screw LifYo which was their money maker" they did this exact same thing just in reverse order.  and guess what happened to that game? they not only lost 85% of their players base because their soul focus was the MMO " that failed" but they also lost most of their LifYo player base do to them stopping any and all updates to their sandbox version, and the funny thing was/is if you read the posts that people posted on STEAM they called them out stating that they should take a page out of Wurm Online team on how to treat their customers, but I guess you took a page from them on how to push us away.

 

What a joke.

 

Be-careful Steam is brutal and can make or break a game and with the graphics and grind you will probably sink.

 

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49 minutes ago, Ismira said:

1. I buy bulk goods. (I don't have the time to spend 10+/hrs in a game)

2. RMT (I paid for a character and that was to help due to the amount of time it takes to do the simplest of things in Wurm Online)

3. Wurm Unlimited 

 

I would just like to take this time to rebuttal each of these points.  Perhaps you might consider this before selling your account. 

 

1.  You will still effectively able to buy bulk goods with real money.  The only difference for you here is that you buy from the wurm shop, not another player.  This is a price that is nearly the same as the existing price of silver from players before this change (1s =e) AND you get bonus loyalty marks which can be spent on goodies.  So now you can buy more stuff and from the official seller so no risk of scamming.  For buying bulk goods, this is an improvement.

 

2. You point out that you bought a character to speed things up.  But this has already occurred and this character is already yours.  How exactly does this impact you?  This negatively impacts new players who can't do such things, but frankly favors older players like you.

 

3.  Wurm Unlimited isn't a real mmo, all of your progress there can be lost at any time.  It's no different than playing on a Minecraft server.  Granted, it is still fun to play expecially with mods, but it cannot and never will be a true alternative to wurm online.  Furthermore, development of WU has officially ended, which you might consider as a knife to the back to WU fans, but this only highlights the fact that WU isn't a true replacement.

 

To sumerise my arguments: these changes only negatively impact you if you are someone trying to make real life money in the game.  For working professionals or someone who lacks time to play a lot like you or me, the rmt changes are at worst neutral.

Edited by Toma
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36 minutes ago, Toma said:

1.  You will still effectively able to buy bulk goods with real money.  The only difference for you here is that you buy from the wurm shop, not another player.  This is a price that is nearly the same as the existing price of silver from players before this change (1s =e) AND you get bonus loyalty marks which can be spent on goodies.  So now you can buy more stuff and from the official seller so no risk of scamming.  For buying bulk goods, this is an improvement.

 

With me being able to buy couple 100s of thousands of bricks using paypal made the bricks disappear from the system. Buying at least a gold coin each month for the upkeep alone, was re-using the same silver which was already bought by someone from the website and taking it out of the economy via deed upkeep. 

With me having to buy the money from the web shop, effectively creating them out of thin air, to buy the same bricks and not offloading it from existing money poll, because i'd have to buy the gold for upkeep as well, creates a massive inflation. This has happened to many other games, there is supply, there is demand AND there is abundance of currency. This makes the prices go up for everything, just because people who have the money, have no other way to buy stuff or offload it and it makes the new player have to fight the market prices inflated by money which will be pumped at a much higher rate than it was until now. 

With RMT allowed, the flow seemed pretty constant, people bought money, deeds were sucking it out at more or less even rate, a big reason for that was because a lot of the transactions didn't involve ingame money (e.g. bulk materials in large quantities). Now to buy the same materials, much more money has to be "spawned" in to the system. That money will be burning people's pockets, they will start offering higher prices for everything, because there is only so much they can buy from the trader with it. Offering higher prices makes the new player have to buy more money again to buy that thing so even more money is introduced in to the system.

 

I have only ever sold one item in my 9 years of playing Wurm (a rare axe), i traded a lot of sleep powders for clay and that's about it. I have spent thousands on materials and deed upkeep, my main deed alone was about 90s a month so that alone was a nice sink to take the money out of the system. 

 

In the no RMT world i would have to buy 1g each month for the upkeep PLUS few gold for the materials. the deed upkeep money goes out of the system as it used to, nothing changes here.

the remainder is spent on bricks/mortar/bulk materials in general. Seller now has a bunch of money they want to get rid of and this situation repeats every month. I'm unable to fund my deeds with in game activities because simply none of them are really sellable. I terraform and build stuff so i keep magically spawning more money in to this economy which will start getting out of control very soon.

 

 

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You make some good points.  But with the price over everything super low right now, it sounds like we could really use a bit of inflation.  Crafters and casters are basically making nothing compared to what they used to.  If the value of items and bulks go up and silver goes down, it will become easier to pay for your premium and deeds in-game than before.  However, you neglected to take into account the trader changes.  That's a lot of silver no longer being added to the system.  These two factors could balance each other out.

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7 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

With me being able to buy couple 100s of thousands of bricks using paypal made the bricks disappear from the system. Buying at least a gold coin each month for the upkeep alone, was re-using the same silver which was already bought by someone from the website and taking it out of the economy via deed upkeep. 

With me having to buy the money from the web shop, effectively creating them out of thin air, to buy the same bricks and not offloading it from existing money poll, because i'd have to buy the gold for upkeep as well, creates a massive inflation. This has happened to many other games, there is supply, there is demand AND there is abundance of currency. This makes the prices go up for everything, just because people who have the money, have no other way to buy stuff or offload it and it makes the new player have to fight the market prices inflated by money which will be pumped at a much higher rate than it was until now. 

With RMT allowed, the flow seemed pretty constant, people bought money, deeds were sucking it out at more or less even rate, a big reason for that was because a lot of the transactions didn't involve ingame money (e.g. bulk materials in large quantities). Now to buy the same materials, much more money has to be "spawned" in to the system. That money will be burning people's pockets, they will start offering higher prices for everything, because there is only so much they can buy from the trader with it. Offering higher prices makes the new player have to buy more money again to buy that thing so even more money is introduced in to the system.

 

I have only ever sold one item in my 9 years of playing Wurm (a rare axe), i traded a lot of sleep powders for clay and that's about it. I have spent thousands on materials and deed upkeep, my main deed alone was about 90s a month so that alone was a nice sink to take the money out of the system. 

 

In the no RMT world i would have to buy 1g each month for the upkeep PLUS few gold for the materials. the deed upkeep money goes out of the system as it used to, nothing changes here.

the remainder is spent on bricks/mortar/bulk materials in general. Seller now has a bunch of money they want to get rid of and this situation repeats every month. I'm unable to fund my deeds with in game activities because simply none of them are really sellable. I terraform and build stuff so i keep magically spawning more money in to this economy which will start getting out of control very soon.

 

 

The part being missed in this example is that through deed and premium upkeep the money was being filtered back into the system. Coin you bought may have been bought years ago and continued to cycle through dozens of sales. 

 

With this system no coin enters the game unless it is bought, once it is used in premium or upkeep it leaves the system. 

 

It won't cause inflation because it will likely be leaving at a higher rate than it enters because it won't be re-entering the system. 

 

If the seller winds up with money that can use that silver for upkeep, premium, or other trades. 

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