Retrograde

The Future of RMT in Wurm and Price Reductions

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Wait, does this mean my trade chat will be more than the same 2 guys posting "WTS 50s 40eu" every 25 minutes in the dead hours of the morning?

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Since this thread went live I haven't spoken with anyone who thought these changes were bad or in any way unreasonable, the only thing people have been a bit pensive about is this:

 

10 hours ago, Zamiel said:

1: Shared deed management alts are not uncommon, particularly for avoiding a single point of failure by having a succession of ownership in place. Depending on the deed, this might be accessed by enough people to run afoul of the rule.

 

I appreciate the increased managability that the new Deed permission system allows for since it was introduced a while back, I really do, but the GUI for it is both unintuitive and slow to interact with. It becomes especially daunting if you need to add (or remove) someone to (or from) multiple houses. It's so much easier for deeds with multiple occupants to have a central management character that always sits on the deed, ready to log in whenever a setting for a role isn't working as intended. This type of character is especially useful for whenever people are hunting or participating in rifts on another server and can't access the settings on their home deed.

I'm assuming that shared deed management accounts will no longer be possible to have?

 

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33 minutes ago, Aeris said:

Since this thread went live I haven't spoken with anyone who thought these changes were bad or in any way unreasonable, the only thing people have been a bit pensive about is this:

 

 

I appreciate the increased managability that the new Deed permission system allows for since it was introduced a while back, I really do, but the GUI for it is both unintuitive and slow to interact with. It becomes especially daunting if you need to add (or remove) someone to (or from) multiple houses. It's so much easier for deeds with multiple occupants to have a central management character that always sits on the deed, ready to log in whenever a setting for a role isn't working as intended. This type of character is especially useful for whenever people are hunting or participating in rifts on another server and can't access the settings on their home deed.

I'm assuming that shared deed management accounts will no longer be possible to have?

 

Yes, the same rule would apply in this situation.

We'll discuss other possible solutions for the issue, as the main one in this case I suppose would be not being able to manage the deed when on another server - this might be fixable.

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5 hours ago, bdew said:

Forbidding RMT by players while keeping the cash shop selling silver turns the game into 100% P2W.


Wurm has always been pay to win. They need to stop selling in game currency for real money to truly fix that, but that isn’t going to happen.

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59 minutes ago, Samool said:

Yes, the same rule would apply in this situation.

We'll discuss other possible solutions for the issue, as the main one in this case I suppose would be not being able to manage the deed when on another server - this might be fixable.

Thank you, both for the quick  response and for looking into the remote deed management :)

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I think a very sensible solution for managing accounts accesed by say 2-4 people is to have an ingame option to mark them as '' shared acxounts''. Many people have priests or have used priests as public use for villagers. Myself included. I have  priest accesed by 3-4 trusted people who have used her to grind favor and channeling and for village casts. 

I propose such cases can be dealt fairly by marking them as shared in game sccounts linked with the players who use them. Example : two villagers and i use the same priest. Mark said priest as : this account is used by elentari and x and y. The knowledge can be public gm knowledge. The advantages is that if anything happens to the account the gms arent obligated to interfere. Public accounts come with the risk of sharing them. 

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The King (collectively speaking) has regained his sanity and put on clothes! Long live the King!

 

So after not logging into the game for some days I see the orange announcement in the Event tab. Curious, I open the browser to the link and find this bold statement:

On 1/31/2020 at 3:24 PM, Retrograde said:

With this in mind we have made the tough decision of no longer allowing any and all RMT and account sales effective March 1st, 2020. This will include sales of silver, items for real life currency and account trades.

 

Stunned and amazed to read something that I had never thought would come to pass, I could only agree with the previous explanation and contents of this post about these issues which *some* of us had been campaigning against for years. With that said, everything that had been said about these negative impacts to the game has already been said many times over, so I will not bother to overstate these statements of importance even though they do still carry the same weight of import. Repetition can be tiring for all parties concerned and disrupt the party atmosphere of celebration, so for those of us who could and did see clearly these destructive elementals seeping the financial support out of the game we can only enjoy also the departing parties non-participation within without them.

 

Now although I do like and respect a number of you who have participated in the above now condemned and denied activities by company publicly stated policy as has been made clear within the topic, I am sort of sorry to say that I will not shed a tear of inclusion for you within their departure as those who do leave only prove the point at themselves that they were in the "game" for the RL $$$$ that they could make out of it to various extents.

 

I leave those above with the sage words of Mr. Wonderful.... For the rest who will continue to play Wurm and wander our lands as new adventures unfold, I wish the sun to shine upon you and the gentle breeze within the forest to cool your spirit on the many paths you choose to travel.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

 

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This is a really good idea, this is exactly what Wurm Online needs! I'll definitely be returning to playing due to this great change to the rules, I can't wait to see what Wurm will look like in 5 years now!

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1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

@Retrograde

 

What if me and my 4 friend currently owns 25% share of an account 

5 people with 25% share each?

 

You'll need to decide which person gets to keep the account.

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4 minutes ago, Samool said:

5 people with 25% share each?

 

You'll need to decide which person gets to keep the account.

 

im in the same situation with a few accounts, which is why i was asking about that situation. I've got two accounts that I share for pvp, both owned and played by one other person 50/50

Edited by platinumteef

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I suspect you'll need to agree a buyout with the other person. You perhaps could agree that in principle the other person owns it, but you can log in sometimes.

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Be simpler at this point to just bite the bullet and make the hard changes all the way no exceptions no half ass plans jsut get rid of , fix and or change all the things in wurm at once.

- RMT gone

- Traders get rid of completely

- Account sharing None

- Close Chaos remake and re balance

- Fix the business model   *if wurm wants revenue remove premium time at the token (otherwise it still wont make money)

 

Not saying I agree or disagree  with the above but if you want to make the hard choices do them all at once  get the pissed off people outta the way so you can move forward versus  do it in stages and getting people all worked up every 30 days over some new idea/chamge.  Either Fix it all or dont fix any

 

Edited by igSnarkin
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3 minutes ago, Ols said:

I suspect you'll need to agree a buyout with the other person. You perhaps could agree that in principle the other person owns it, but you can log in sometimes.

 

yeah, I mean these  people are very longstanding close friends, so there won't be any personal problems, its moreso for rulings sake in pvp for me. Like if the "owner" logs in and uses an account for pvp, and then I login a day later and use the account for pvp, where do we draw the line on account sharing? despite what people think, pvp does still happen and it could become an issue, and I would like to see it resolved before it becomes one

 

it doesn't benefit anyone having very loose rules that can be applied differently to different situations, something we should have learned from previous years

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47 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

im in the same situation with a few accounts, which is why i was asking about that situation. I've got two accounts that I share for pvp, both owned and played by one other person 50/50

 

The first post says that sharing an  account with a friend is fine, so your 50/50 situation shouldn't be an issue  then.

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18 hours ago, Griffith said:

 

most governments have no laws that protect the disabled, much less any form of financial help from the goverment. even in developed countries its very difficult to find jobs for disabled people that arent menial or somehow demeaning. as a disabled person earning cash from wurm WAS possible for some in an entertaining way and i guess in a way that made them forget about their disabilities. and im really sad that this happened to wurm were it affected them this way.

 

a better argument i think would be to ask if wurm cares or not about how this change affected this portion of their playerbase. Rolf was always very progressive in his views about rmt and in game silver earnings. i guess its a new era since the ownership has "changed". im not sure exactly who the new "owner" is, but certainly the shift is clear.

 

edit: besides terraforming it was one of the very few things that made wurm different from most other games.

 

all i'm reading is that you don't believe the disabled are worth anything without the allowance from a video game 

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1 hour ago, Ecrir said:

 

The first post says that sharing an  account with a friend is fine, so your 50/50 situation shouldn't be an issue  then.

 

but prove that situation is true to what it is, go on, prove it by the tools allotted 

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42 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

 

all i'm reading is that you don't believe the disabled are worth anything without the allowance from a video game 

 

if that is what your reading comprehension got from that im sorry for you. i said the complete opposite. that many countries do not give them equal employment opportunities protections against discrimination, and where they have protections they still suffer from stigma. Stephen Hawking was a genius in physics and still everyone mocked him for being disabled, just look at his memes. This coming from a supposed great nation. i said they dont get the opportunities and the respect they deserve. in some countries theres even superstitions associated with hiring people with disabilities. Some chinese abandon their babies because theyre born with differences.

 

i hope the moderators erase your post and this one, not only because its not on topic, but because its probably that you read it too hastily and misunderstood it. i have made the same mistake before.

Edited by Griffith

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44 minutes ago, Cornchips said:

 

all i'm reading is that you don't believe the disabled are worth anything without the allowance from a video game 

All im reading from you is irrelevant for the topic.

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15 hours ago, bdew said:

 

The difference is that people could argue before that since you can sell your stuff for $ it's not "just" P2W, it's an investment/economy/whatever.

To me it's P2W either way, that's why i play WU (and don't run cash shop "donations" like some servers).

But now it'll be harder for people to argue it's anything but.


To add look at a lot of other mmo's that have "buy ingame currency" options a lot of people complain it is a p2w mechanic as if you cant grind the currency you just slap your cc and buy it
Now what makes wurm different is that there is no real way to grind silver in wurm(the tiny trickle down from hunting and foraging isnt sustainable and with traders being changed thats 1 less option) so in wurm silver has a more important role as its your default ingame currency but also the one used to pay for deeds and the likes so it needs to come from somewhere

But in the end of the day it is still p2w but a necessary one for wurm's current model

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9 hours ago, igSnarkin said:

Be simpler at this point to just bite the bullet and make the hard changes all the way no exceptions no half ass plans jsut get rid of , fix and or change all the things in wurm at once.

- RMT gone

- Traders get rid of completely

- Account sharing None

- Close Chaos remake and re balance

- Fix the business model   *if wurm wants revenue remove premium time at the token (otherwise it still wont make money)

 

Not saying I agree or disagree  with the above but if you want to make the hard choices do them all at once  get the pissed off people outta the way so you can move forward versus  do it in stages and getting people all worked up every 30 days over some new idea/chamge.  Either Fix it all or dont fix any

 


look some of “us” are scared to go to chaos, I understand this may be the reason you want chaos removed but not a viable option my old pal....

 

I guess some people will need to venture and find a new career or source of income...

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Well...

 

Some of you know my name quite well, some of you don't.

My claim to fame is my infamous gem stash, back when I was on Indy.

 

Overall, this is going to change the way I play the game.

I am impartial on the account trading front, I would never do it, but I don't think other people should be limited.

 

The silver for cash though, is a negative for me.

Since 2014 (PayPal won't go further back than that in statements), I have spent a total of $6,724.50 on digital entertainment/video games, with $2,280.78 of that being straight from Code Club AB.

The remaining $4,443.72 was split between multiple different avenues, but  I reckon a good portion (~50%) was for silver or items in Wurm (based on names of who I bought from).

For someone who took about a 3+ year hiatus in that period, that is still a lot of money.

 

And FWIW, my biggest spending in Wurm was between '08 and '12, where I accumulated 280+ ktql of gems (at which I paid 2c/ql), of which almost all of that silver was purchased from 3rd parties or was direct gems = cash.

 

ALSO, when you pull your paypal statement, for that long of a period time, don't be drinking anything; I almost shot water out of my nose when I added up the total...

 

In conclusion, "There are good ships and wood ships, ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are the friendships, may they always be!"

Overall, I don't make the rules, but I will abide by them; I just feel that the captain of this ship took a wrong turn with this, in favor of short term fairer weather.

 

Sincerely,

Felthanne

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I know it's been awhile, wasn't Rolf trying to get people in bed with Player Auctions or some sort, now we're not ok with selling accounts or items,

 

This game gets funnier by the year.

 

 

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On 1/31/2020 at 1:07 PM, Delacroix said:

 

Because math is hard:

~$9 for a single character, on which you are locked out of a large part of the game

~$1.15 for a small deed, on up to roughly $5 for a deed that one would consider reasonably-sized

 

Final Fantasy XIV: $13

World of Warcraft: $15

Elder Scrolls Online: F2P with an option to pay a $15 sub to get the expansions + extra content for free each month

Tera: F2P with optional (not required whatsoever) sub of $15

 

So, with Wurm you pay a subscription each month of between ~$10 and $14 just to be locked out a large segment of the game, compared to other games in the genre that are $13-15

 

But HERPDERP WURM SO CHEEP LOLOL

You forgot to mention that all of those games give you multiple character slots for a single account with those sub prices.

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Personally I don't understand why some people wanted to change wurm in their own personal revenue stream, at the cost of the developers income. Income that's necessary to hire programmers, fix bugs, develop the game, add content, etc. 

 

At the end of the day Wurm, like any game took money and time to make and if you want to play it, it's normal to pay for it. It's a free game to get into but if you want to develop you subscribe. It's as simple as that. 

 

The more I look at the conversations the more I see greed out in the open, and it saddens me. It's a game. It's about fun, not money. 

 

As for the pay to win aspect, I've come to the simple conclusion : Outside of pvp, what is there to win?

 

In pvp it makes sense for a player to get as geared as possible. I recall the time when someone spent 600 euros or more on the first tomes that dropped on Epic. But on freedom such things don't really "win" anything. Bragging rights and vanity at best. What is there to win exactly ? Wurm isn't a cheap competitive petty mmo that drops you in a pvp environment only to push you to buy in game currency just to stay  competitive. It doesn't shove in your face seasonal discounts for gems, gas, cars, or whatever in game currency many cheap chinese knock off mmos are out there. You literally aren't forced to buy anything if you don't want to. On freedom your village will still be there tomorrow. Deed Upkeep is just wurm's way of saying : Please help support the game with a few euros and in return you get no decay. Simple as that. 

 

Do you really need a drake set to hunt in the wild? Nope. Do you need to spent 100 euros on one so you can "survive" ? Nope. I've hunted in my plateset for years, both on Epic and Freedom and I haven't died to mobs. You don't win anything on freedom. At best it's : pay for convenience, but not win. 

 

Also, when it comes to RMT, why would you honestly bypass buying silvers from CC? This is a game that needs money to grow and be sustained. It has a legacy. All servers are books with every player leaving their stories in it. You want your own greed to delete that? For what? A few euros you could make from working at home? If you want to buy a drake set for 90 euros, wouldn't it help the devs more if you would buy 90 S from the shop and traded that in game? Why have so many people ended up equating Wurm to their own money making personal machine? 

 

It's a game most of us love and want to see it successful and thriving. That won't happen if players just want to treat a game like their own bitcoin operation. 

 

It's a game. You put time and money into it like all games since they were first developed. They weren't made for your own revenue stream. The fact that the devs and Rolf first allowed it to happen is just probably the best case study on the market for what happens when a game experiments with the concept of allowing in game currency to be valued with RL money out in the open. Well we saw how that experiment panned out. It reinforced greed at the expense of the ingame economy and the game's well being. Good thing it needs to end.

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