ChampagneDragon

Favor Value Testing

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After all the discussion around favor balancing,  I decided some testing was in order. If you have results from other types please chime in.

 

Cordage:

Skill Ropemaking 67.452

Materials: 500 98.89ql wemp

rare oak ropetool, 94.70ql, imbued to  98 woa 88

 

All cordage bsb'd, no sorting for quality.

384 cordage at 60.91ql

multiple sac testing giving consistent  9.6460 ql

Total favor: 3704.06

 

 

Time start: 4:45 end 5:32

Total time: 47 minutes

 

78.8098 favor per minute

 

Veggies

Skill: Cooking 57.09

Materials: 98.73 ql garlic

rare seryll knife, 92.17 ql, botd 95, glimmer libia rune (speed)

 

No sorting. All put into fsb

500 chopped veggies at 100ql

Multiple sac testing: 2.4990 favor per garlic

Total favor 1249.50

 

Time start: 12:05 end 12:27

Total time 22 minutes

 

56.7954 favor per minute

 

Cloth Squares:

Skill tailoring: 48.25

materials: 200 cotton 98.90ql

Spindle, rare oak 92.02 ql w81 96 imbue

Floor loom rare oak 83.07ql w75

 

Stage 1: strings

999 strings at 91.19 (one rare, didn't include)

Start: 9:54 end 11:11

Total time (strings) 77 minutes

 

Stage 4: squares

666 sqaures at 74.55ql

Start 11:12 end 12:23

Total time (squares) 71 minutes

Multi testing (Fo) 13.8920 per square

Total favor 9252.072

 

Total time 148 minutes

62.514 favor per minute

 

 

I will not attempt to test locks(mag) or yo-yos (vyn), as my skill is dismal at best. 

 

Animal bits for Libia is really a hard one to test. Personally I can butcher an animal and get mostly 80+ parts from it (I have probably 10k animal bits stored based on 10s quality if someone wants to test, although shouldn't be too hard to test)

 

From this though, cordage is a nice viable alternative, although it takes a lot more mats to crank it out. Veggies, although still viable, seem a bit low compared to the other universal favor (cordage) when compared favor per minute produced.

 

 

Share your results please!

 

 

 

 

 

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Tailoring 95

Cloth tailoring 100

 

Would be nice to get your cloth tailoring level, not sure if that's tailoring or cloth you mentioned.

 

My take on cloth squares.

Only good for Fo that's all i can say. If you see favor/min on little test i've done for non Fo priests veggies/cordage are better than cloth squares, i guess more so if veggie chopper/ropemaker is more skilled/geared than ChampagneDragon.

Another thing - square QL is almost same as using 100ql strings ( used 100x other day and got ~79.9ql squares ), so if this needs a boost it's an imbue on loom.

 

 

Here it is:

 

100QL 100kg cotton
92QL supreme spindle woa 93, imbue 98, lead Fo rune ( -5% less ql loss from repair/ 5% speed bonus ), 91 coc
88 QL supreme loom woa 99, bronze rune of libila ( gather 10% higher ql - not sure if that works on this )

Stage - Strings
500x 94.68QL
Time - 33 minutes


Stage - Squares
333x - 80.16QL
Time  27 minutes

[19:21:20] A trader would sell this for about 32 copper and 12 iron.

[19:09:57] You think you can sacrifice this to Vynora for about 9 favor.

Total time - 60 minutes
Favor - 2997
          49.95/min
Calculated for Fo : 4975 favor   - 82.92 favor/min

 

 

Edited by Martynas5
made calcs for Fo favor according to OP.

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36 minutes ago, Martynas5 said:

Would be nice to get your cloth tailoring level, not sure if that's tailoring or cloth you mentioned.

 Cloth tailoring is 85. I said tailoring, as at that level the only ticks were on tailoring itself. Cloth tailoring ticks only come when imping at higher levels. 

 

37 minutes ago, Martynas5 said:

i guess more so if veggie chopper/ropemaker is more skilled/geared than ChampagneDragon.

I did the veggie test with Salacia, my priest, as her cooking is lower (trying to keep skill levels as equal as possible). I will tell you that her timer, fresh, full food, full stamina bar) starts at 2.9s for first action (she queues five). CD has higher cooking skill and her action timer is 2.7s with the same parameters (queues 7) As far as tools go, the knives don't come much better. Trust me, if they did, with as many veggies as I've chopped I'd have it. I am not willing to give up my seryl knives as otherwise I'd spend as much time imping them as chopping.

 

As far as ropemaking, it's really tough to grind it as a priest, so it will be months before Salacia can try again with higher ropemaking. 

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47 minutes ago, Martynas5 said:

Only good for Fo that's all i can say. If you see favor/min on little test i've done for non Fo priests veggies/cordage are better than cloth squares

Yes, Cloth is Fo specific. As a vyn testing three times I got 8.3350 per cloth square. The Fo that tested got 13.8920 per single cloth square.

 

Fo: cloth squares

Vyn: yo-yos.

Mag: locks

Lib: animal bits.

 

Cordage and chopped veggies are universal.

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Good information guys, allow me to contribute some "legacy" hints.

 

Cordage rope used to give 10 favor at 70 QL, and I think cordage across the  board (not linear to QL) seems to have increased by 25%.  I HIGHLY recommend QL sorting your ropes.

 

Also, for Vynn, another alternative to yoyos was torches.  Now that priests can continue unfinished items....it's shaft + moss + tar.  All obtainable by a Vynora priest, bonus points for those of you with high digging skill.

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1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

Cordage rope used to give 10 favor at 70 QL, and I think cordage across the  board (not linear to QL) seems to have increased by 25%.  I HIGHLY recommend QL sorting your ropes

yes, I always sort mats. For this testing I didn't,  since I was going for value over a high amount of mats.

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You're concerned with the "skill" of making the cordage rope, I get it.  I was just offering torches as another possible avenue.  :)

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Another variation is the time to grow 200 cotton vs time to grow 500 wemp/veggies. Cloth squares take longer and a small adjustment could change the balance.

 

Still, cordage being universal has a significant benefit, especially for those that sell favor.

 

I'd love to see the time/favor result from locks, including mining time.

Edited by Kelody

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Can this move to Community Assistance since it’s mechanics related?

 

Cordage seems to be old formula for favor where the c value was bumped up from 1 to 1.3

Favor = 1.3 * QL * QL * 0.002

Can anyone confirm if 100 ql ropes are 26 favor? The get price says 25, but does it actually sac for that (rounding issues maybe)? The model works into the mid 90s, but I can’t test higher. 

 

Magranon also seems to be a similar value with a c of 1.25 (only confirmed from 2 data points, but seems right)

Favor = 1.25 * QL * QL * 0.002


Libila butcher bits (charcoal, meat don’t count) are calculated differently.

Favor = QL * 0.105

Butchered bits are nice when you’re out hunting or have them stashed, but I think veggies might be better if you need something mass farmed.

 

All God Veggies

Favor = QL * 0.025

 

I’ll eventually get around to figuring out cloth squares when I get the chance.

Edited by LionIX

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Here a few data from tests I ran. I sorted by ql in 16 categories (4 bcus) as shown.

ENdiSBc.png

 

The still empty columns are for future tests, quantities set to 1 to avoid division by zero issues, my recent skill is at 69. Average favor per unit has risen from 6.13 at skill 50+ to 8.08 at skill 66+. To get the favor per harvested wemp unit, the values have to be divided by 1.30 as cordage requires 0.65kg wemp. Loss from failures is not counted as it is relatively low.  The highest category of cordage is capped by my farming skill, wemp harvested at average ql95.60 recently (rising slowly).

 

Edit: Ropetool is rare. 100ImbRM ql75 .

Edited by Ekcin
addendum
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On 7/1/2020 at 7:17 PM, LionIX said:

Favor = 1.3 * QL * QL * 0.002

The Cordage Rope And favorable items among gods (Yoyo & pottery bricks for vyn, Sheets for Fo & Locks for mag) the Formula is 0.25*(QL/10) .

 

Butchered goods for Lib and usage of a non-favorable item like(Sheets for vynora or locks for Fo)  formula is 0.15*(QL/10) . 
 

Note: Get Price will round the number to the nearest 0.

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3 hours ago, MoTeC said:

[.. , thx for info]

Note: Get Price will round the number to the nearest 0.

Which is why I measure with at least 50 (if not more available) or 100 items for get price. Necessary for accurate figures.

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Latest update to ropemaking test:

 

fKGW0oz.png?1

 

In addition, I processed other 640 wemp fibres into 487 cordage ropes I dropped into a bsb without sorting. This resulted in ql 54.49ql, 771 favor/100 ropes. The loss of 131 favor/100 compared to sorting is significant.

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Thanks for the data.  I used to do serious tests like this but got a bit overwhelming after awhile.  Now I just chuck everything in the bsb and what comes out is what I get.

 

I have done 2 controlled tests to establish some high end baselines. Ropemaking skill is 96.14 and doesn't change much over testing runs.

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 99 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 79.84

Favor produced: 31,805 or 12,722 per 1000 wemp

Comments: This was a lot of imping and not worth the effort but can't get much better than this--though I suspect this might be slightly below the long term average.

 

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 98 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 79.18

Favor produced: 31,330 or 12,532 per 1000 wemp

Comments: Imping was much more reasonable, but still took time better spent making ropes at a lower ql ropetool I suspect. 2500 wemp is clearly still not enough to nail the decimal points on average ql. Looks like probably linear with ropetool ql.

 

I'll post results for 97, 96 and 95 ql ropetool when I get around to it.

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On 11/4/2021 at 8:57 AM, MoTeC said:

The Cordage Rope And favorable items among gods (Yoyo & pottery bricks for vyn, Sheets for Fo & Locks for mag) the Formula is 0.25*(QL/10) .

 

Butchered goods for Lib and usage of a non-favorable item like(Sheets for vynora or locks for Fo)  formula is 0.15*(QL/10) . 
 

Note: Get Price will round the number to the nearest 0.

The cordage formula: Favor = 1.25 * QL * QL * 0.002 is exactly the same as the one you gave. You can read the history part on the get price wiki page and see your preferred formula was a conversion from the original for the benefit of doing mental math.

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During the great chopped veggie nerf, I remember there being some changes to the relationship between get price and favor.  In other words, it's possible the relationship between get price and favor may not be as strait forward as it was when the get price wiki page was created. 


I don't know how to retrieve accurate get price anymore now that it reports favor and ends up discarding precision to round to the nearest favor point.

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I put 100 items into an altar and do prices->get price. That one seems fairly accurate to me

 

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7 hours ago, Ogare said:

The cordage formula: Favor = 1.25 * QL * QL * 0.002 is exactly the same as the one you gave. You can read the history part on the get price wiki page and see your preferred formula was a conversion from the original for the benefit of doing mental math.

 

I'm pretty sure the multiplier is 1.3 rather than 1.25.  I know the wiki was recently updated with 1.25 but my testing shows 1.3.  To test adjust the ql of a cordage rope so it is right at the breakpoint of going to the next whole number for favor. Check the get price.  Raise the ql over the breakpoint and check get price again and it will have gone up.  The get price favor result is rounded down it appears to the nearest whole number. 

 

The formulas I use for cordage are Favor = 1.3 * QL * QL / 500.  And to determine the required QL to get a certain amount of favor some math results in QL = SQRT (Favor/(1.3 * 500)). As an example, to get 10 favor you need the cordage rope to be 62.02 ql. Make a 62 ql cordage and the get price will show 9 favor.  Bump it up to 62.04 and the get price jumps to 10 favor.   If the multiplier was actually 1.25, the get price favor value would not jump.  Therefore the multiplier must be 1.3.  Wiki is in error.

 

The somewhat exception to this is a 100 ql cordage rope shows 25 favor.  Clearly it is not a 100ql cordage but 99.9999 or so and therefore the favor is not actually 26 but 25.99 or something so rounds down and displays 25.  It is a pity a single decimal point isn't shown on get value as that would avoid much confusion in the formula and for buyers to know how much favor they just bought.  I've started to sell based on the get price value and the rest comes as a free bonus to the buyer.  Saves a lot of grief this way.

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Just my newest data. Ropetool as before, ql75-77, rare, ImRM100.

 

nn9A3jx.jpg

 

 

In addition, I created 500 cordage ropes at skill 77.75, and dropped them all into a bsb. Resulting ql per 100 ropes according to get price was 716 vs the 942 when sorting in ql categories.

 

Edit: As to the formula, I reviewed it and think the wiki is indeed wrong. Note, btw. that the cordage formula 1.25*ql^2/500 is quadratic while the veg formula is linear. But the value refers to cordage, not wemp. For that, the result must be divided by 1.3 due to 0.65kg wemp (plus failure loss) needed for 1 cordage rope.

Edited by Ekcin
reviewed and recalculated formula question
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On 11/22/2021 at 8:51 PM, GoldFever said:

Thanks for the data.  I used to do serious tests like this but got a bit overwhelming after awhile.  Now I just chuck everything in the bsb and what comes out is what I get.

 

I have done 2 controlled tests to establish some high end baselines. Ropemaking skill is 96.14 and doesn't change much over testing runs.

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 99 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 79.84

Favor produced: 31,805 or 12,722 per 1000 wemp

Comments: This was a lot of imping and not worth the effort but can't get much better than this--though I suspect this might be slightly below the long term average.

 

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 98 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 79.18

Favor produced: 31,330 or 12,532 per 1000 wemp

Comments: Imping was much more reasonable, but still took time better spent making ropes at a lower ql ropetool I suspect. 2500 wemp is clearly still not enough to nail the decimal points on average ql. Looks like probably linear with ropetool ql.

 

I'll post results for 97, 96 and 95 ql ropetool when I get around to it.

 

Updated results for 97 and 96 ql.

 

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 97 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 78.08

Favor produced: 30,465 or 12,186 per 1000 wemp

Comments: Imping was very reasonable

 

Wemp used: 2500 @ 100 ql

Ropetool: Supreme oak 96 ql, 100 imbue repaired and reimped frequently

Average ql: 78.06

Favor produced: 30,450 or 12,180 per 1000 wemp

Comments: Imping was easy.  Surprisingly close to the 97ql test. Note that my skill has increased from about 96.14 to 96.25 over the course of doing these tests.

 

One more test to do at 95ql.

 

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Would be interesting how the favor per wemp is calculated. Assuming 12..7 to 12.2 favor per wemp unit, this would result in average cordage favor of 16.51 to 15.7, or cordage ql of 79.8 to 76.5 ca. , are that average qualities of cordage dropped in bsb, or single qualities per rope or ropes grouped by ql?

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14 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Would be interesting how the favor per wemp is calculated. Assuming 12..7 to 12.2 favor per wemp unit, this would result in average cordage favor of 16.51 to 15.7, or cordage ql of 79.8 to 76.5 ca. , are that average qualities of cordage dropped in bsb, or single qualities per rope or ropes grouped by ql?

 

I just dump them all in the bsb for this test.  Could certainly raise the numbers a bit if sorted.

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