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EvaDaly

Hota battle camps above 21 fight skill.

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To go along with the alt abuse, i think hota battle camps should be like it was for caping Towers and bashing, and repairing. You should not be able to create a fresh off gold coast alt and run out and win the hotas. old Hota was not like that so why is the new hota like that.

Edited by EvaDaly
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I have to agree, using non premium brand new accounts to cap the Hota battlecamps is unfair to players actually living on chaos.

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i would say not even 21 fs required. Simply, no premium - cant cap HOTA. 

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3 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

i would say not even 21 fs required. Simply, no premium - cant cap HOTA. 

then it just the same 2s to prem a fresh account you should need 21 FS and the body stats you would need to repair tower and ride a horse... yes sure you can say just kill the alt.. 

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21 seems reallly low for a pvp server... i think 50+ minimum for fight skill and an additional body strength check of ~ 25-30

 

but instead of just plain not allowing the toon to cap the battlecamp, just have it spawn valeri mob every 5 seconds if they do not meet those requirements

Edited by Evilreaper
trills
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I disagree.  You can easily ride over and kill the non-prem player.   Besides, it takes 4 camp conquers, that are spread all over the map, to win.  It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.  You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because you're the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing.

Edited by Galatyn
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14 minutes ago, Galatyn said:

I disagree.  You can easily ride over and kill the non-prem player.   Besides, it takes 4 camp conquers, that are spread all over the map, to win.  It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.  You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because your the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing.

 when 4 freemium alts conquer all 4 camps at same exact time, its not possible to ride there in time, someone is carting f2ps or clearing a path for them and logging them off at the camps when they spawn and not logging them back in until its time to conquer all 4

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41 minutes ago, Galatyn said:

I disagree.  You can easily ride over and kill the non-prem player.   Besides, it takes 4 camp conquers, that are spread all over the map, to win.  It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.  You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because your the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing.

You guys always miss the point of the conversation, being the last remaining kingdom and having it easy has nothing to do with anything here. Its simply matter of stupid mechanic that needs attention, hota shouldn't be accessible by fresh made characters. It should have restrictions who is able to participate. Using alts to do current hota is nothing more than act of cowardness and that should not be the goal of pvp content. This should be addressed before the new steam servers.

 

Restrictions:

having at least 30 body strength because otherwise you are too weak to compete in the hunt of the ancients which clearly refers to end game content which new players shouldn't have access so easily.

having at least 21 body control

having at least 50 fighting skill

also being more than 1 month old premium character, meaning you cant just simply use 2s alts to compete.

Edited by Themystrix
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21 fighting is a fair requirement, but you have to realise people will always find a way to game the system in a sandbox.

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1 hour ago, Galatyn said:

I disagree.  You can easily ride over and kill the non-prem player.   Besides, it takes 4 camp conquers, that are spread all over the map, to win.  It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.  You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because your the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing.

Lmao defending the use of alts, classic WU move. I guess even the brightest of WU still haven't deduced that the use of alts in any way, shape, or form is unhealthy for PvP. 

 

And we wonder why the Chaos pop is non-existent...

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3 hours ago, Galatyn said:

It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.

 

Yes, they actually can. Noob players get 24 playing hours buff that reduces agro mob range to literally 1 tile so they can avoid all mobs and not train them like any regular player. Plus ur leaving alts logged off in various locations and only log in when they are needed. HOTA defo should be premium only with some skill limitations like some say. 

Edited by Skatyna

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4 hours ago, CIRAY said:

Lmao defending the use of alts, classic WU move. I guess even the brightest of WU still haven't deduced that the use of alts in any way, shape, or form is unhealthy for PvP. 

 

And we wonder why the Chaos pop is non-existent...

 

 

 

Pvp has a life cycle.  You can blame the ending on alts, priest changes, game mechanics, or whatever you want at any time the situation does not favor you.  But, if you look at all of Chaos throughout it's history and also Wurm Unlimited pvp servers, there have always been beginnings, peaks, and endings.   Hopefully, we will be fortunate enough to experience a new beginning either on Chaos or the new Steam pvp server, if there is one.

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2 hours ago, Skatyna said:

 

Yes, they actually can. Noob players get 24 playing hours buff that reduces agro mob range to literally 1 tile so they can avoid all mobs and not train them like any regular player. Plus ur leaving alts logged off in various locations and only log in when they are needed. HOTA defo should be premium only with some skill limitations like some say. 

 

Have you ever conquered a battlecamp, much less even been to Chaos?  How can you say these things if you have not done both?  Are you aware that because of the almost non-existent population, mobs are very densely packed in many areas?  The server is very large at 16 x 16 Km, which is 4 times the size of Release.   Battlecamps can spawn anywhere on land.  Where would you run alts to exactly?  Boars, Hyenas, and Gorillas are aggressive and have a longer aggro range than normal mobs.  If you are Freedom, the default kingdom, then if you visit the SouthEast part of the map, it is filled with enemy towers and guards that have a pretty decent aggro range.  To top it all off, you may have to fight against other players, after all it is pvp.

I would suggest you create a new non-prem avatar and find and conquer a battle camp.  After that, your post will have the experience to back it up.  

 

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6 hours ago, Themystrix said:

You guys always miss the point of the conversation, being the last remaining kingdom and having it easy has nothing to do with anything here. Its simply matter of stupid mechanic that needs attention, hota shouldn't be accessible by fresh made characters. It should have restrictions who is able to participate. Using alts to do current hota is nothing more than act of cowardness and that should not be the goal of pvp content. This should be addressed before the new steam servers.

 

Restrictions:

having at least 30 body strength because otherwise you are too weak to compete in the hunt of the ancients which clearly refers to end game content which new players shouldn't have access so easily.

having at least 21 body control

having at least 50 fighting skill

also being more than 1 month old premium character, meaning you cant just simply use 2s alts to compete.

 

Cowardness is suggesting restrictions you meet that others don't in an effort to exclude them for personal gain.   Why not say 31 body control? Hell horse speed dominates over normal horses and makes a huge difference in hota and pvp.  Is it because you don't have 31?  It's very subjective to say 30 body strength and 50 fight skill is the minimum for end game content.  While brand new players might think that, older players most certainly will not.

 

Why do you or anyone else care who does hota and how?  Because you are in Panda, and your kingdom lost today, your kingdom mate Theshawv got killed, and Eva complained, that makes you biased.  Because you lost, you are crying about it.  Theshawv was out looking today.  Eva was out looking, because she capped Cappa Cat outpost in the Center.  There were others online, so presume could be other Pandas out looking.  Yet, one coward from Freedom outplayed your whole kingdom and won.  Of course you are going to complain.  You have to find some way to handicap me to make it safer for you all to venture out into the server again without fear of getting killed or outplayed.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Galatyn said:

Why do you or anyone else care who does hota and how?  Because you are in Panda, and your kingdom lost today, your kingdom mate Theshawv got killed, and Eva complained, that makes you biased.  Because you lost, you are crying about it.  Theshawv was out looking today.  Eva was out looking, because she capped Cappa Cat outpost in the Center.  There were others online, so presume could be other Pandas out looking.  Yet, one coward from Freedom outplayed your whole kingdom and won.  Of course you are going to complain.  You have to find some way to handicap me to make it safer for you all to venture out into the server again without fear of getting killed or outplayed.  

 

 

 

The fact that panda lost, well, then panda lost, it happens, i heard about it after i posted my opinion.

 

I care about good mechanics and my only bias is the use of alts... and i have noticed you guys are short sighted, but try at least, we have lost quite few players already. 

 

So you say that the mechanic that supposed to make more pvp content can be ruined with no prem alts from which no one benefits of killing? Those restriction were just thrown there, feel free to adjust or giving new ideas instead of bringing KvK drama here. 

 

Use your brain instead just relying on your KvK bias, saying its good for everyone that f2p alts can cap and win hotas is BS. 

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remove karma and recall home while you are at it

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It has been

0

days since the last PvP related suggestion without KvK banter mixed in.

 

3 hours ago, Galatyn said:

Cowardness is suggesting restrictions you meet that others don't in an effort to exclude them for personal gain.   Why not say 31 body control?

As a neutral observer, I think the obvious answer to that question is that your accusation of aiming for personal gain is baseless and it really is about providing a minimum entry barrier to prevent "alt abuse". That's their premise, which you dismiss, insert your accusation of personal bias into it and suddenly have to ask for clarification on what their premise had answered perfectly fine had you not dismissed it to replace it with your accusation. Doesn't that strike you as trying to adapt observable reality to your personal perception of other people, rather than the other way around, which anyone remotely charitable would do?

 

Of course it is easy to question the motives of your opponents when they had just lost, but it just might be that the way they had lost has revealed to them a flaw in the system, whereas losing a different way that felt more in line with a satisfying and engaging PvP experience had not spawned this thread. Try to question your own biases as well for a bit, not just everyone elses.

 

I have no stake in it or enough insight to discuss wether it is alt "abuse" or just fair game, nor what went down to specifically incite your rants here, but just on paper it doesn't sound like a very straightforward and "honest" way to engage in a PvP activity if alts can be used willy nilly. It sounds metagame-ish as you can just kamikaze into the fray with significantly less skin in the game than those bringing their mains with gears and affinities to lose - who seem to want to experience this instead of playing some petty cat and mouse game. Just my 1.5 cents.

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And we wonder why people don't make pvp suggestions. Because it gets filled with :

15 hours ago, Galatyn said:

You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because you're the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing

 

You know damn well, that using alts that you don't care that die because you lose nothing but you gain hota statue and Addy/glimmer is BS. If you would win hota with your account it wouldn't matter. Even when you were in WU you would use alts to find all the hota camps and then cap them all at the same time with them alts. Then you would karma out so you wouldn't have run back and get caught. 

 

Everything you are saying has nothing to do with why this is made. 

 

So you think it is ok to make a fresh off the golden valley account, say pay 2s and then go win the hota, then have your main account get the hota statue then karma to safety? Battle camp have no challenge at all, even if you are taking it back from another kingdom, the guards do not attack. The spawn rate of chaos is ###### now. There is like nothing to kill no more. So your statement here :

15 hours ago, Galatyn said:

It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.

Means nothing. I can run  100 tile area and have to out run make 3 things. And that is easy. 

 

Alt abuse on chaos has always been a big issue. That is why we need to have more rules and skill requirements. 

 

But ofc the alts abuser's will fight and ###### talk left and right about how it is not a issue. 

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16 hours ago, Galatyn said:

I disagree.  You can easily ride over and kill the non-prem player.   Besides, it takes 4 camp conquers, that are spread all over the map, to win.  It's not like a non-prem can evade mobs and find all of the camps and conquer them.  You are just upset personally, because I outplayed you and Theshawv, and whomever else might have been online at the time.  Just because you're the last kingdom on Chaos doesn't mean you're going to have it easy, at least not until more TC start playing.

 

 

I came back to chaos in a leather set and grabbed a horse i found at a downed deed to ride around and see what has happened since Tc left. I saw a few alts run by a few times <must have been you too>. I stayed for a few hours riding around and checking things out. I found a battle camp at the old HOM desert and capped it, was in the process of looting it when you showed up and killed me, Fair play I am not SOTG anymore I am path of knowledge and I am not a priest.

 

Mad? not at all, Out played me? Serously I could care less about you or chaos, thats why I did not bring good gear or any friends. Subie and whomever might have been with me? She was on Deli.  It was just me, only me which you knew because of your alts running around and the population being me and you lol.  Logging off alts at battlecamps so they can log on one at a time to cap or recap them with no worry about loss is what people started this thread about.

 

A very sad life you live. Good to see WU disbanded though, good job :)

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12 hours ago, Galatyn said:

 

 

 

Pvp has a life cycle.  You can blame the ending on alts, priest changes, game mechanics, or whatever you want at any time the situation does not favor you.  But, if you look at all of Chaos throughout it's history and also Wurm Unlimited pvp servers, there have always been beginnings, peaks, and endings.   Hopefully, we will be fortunate enough to experience a new beginning either on Chaos or the new Steam pvp server, if there is one.

What kind of response is this? You literally just dodged everything I said to write about how Wurm has reached its peak and is now dying out. Can you tell me something I don't already know?

 


Oh, and I’ll share a bit of information that I do know:

 

There won’t be any new beginnings so long as alts are abused with no repercussions and PvP as a whole is ignored. 

 

11 hours ago, Galatyn said:

 

Have you ever conquered a battlecamp, much less even been to Chaos?  How can you say these things if you have not done both?  Are you aware that because of the almost non-existent population, mobs are very densely packed in many areas?  The server is very large at 16 x 16 Km, which is 4 times the size of Release.   Battlecamps can spawn anywhere on land.  Where would you run alts to exactly?  Boars, Hyenas, and Gorillas are aggressive and have a longer aggro range than normal mobs.  If you are Freedom, the default kingdom, then if you visit the SouthEast part of the map, it is filled with enemy towers and guards that have a pretty decent aggro range.  To top it all off, you may have to fight against other players, after all it is pvp.

I would suggest you create a new non-prem avatar and find and conquer a battle camp.  After that, your post will have the experience to back it up.  

 

Have you ever conquered a battlecamp, much less even been to Chaos? The battlecamps, when first spawned, have no guards to kill; you walk up, conquer, then loot. Even if they've been previously conquered by another kingdom, the spawned guards are about as responsive as a ######in rock. You can even conquer the damn camps without even killing the guards first. How is that difficult?

 

Your point about mobs/tower guards is about as useless as your other points since you can easily evade/outrun the majority of mobs on a fresh acc (reduced aggro range) if you have half a brain and know what you're doing. If you somehow manage to die to a mob, or a player even, you can easily respawn and go give it another try! You risk nothing and lose nothing, after all! 

 

But let's say you just want to make life a ###### for everyone else, you can clear out an area around a battlecamp on your main, conquer it, then log off one of your trusty alts at said battlecamp. When an enemy conquers that battlecamp and 2 others, you can simply log in said alt, conquer the camp back, then log off said alt once again. This can be done at any number of camps relatively easily, making HoTA a real chore for anyone but you. Does this sound very fair to you? 

 

Lastly, who in their right mind should be able to do just as you said and make a fresh alt to go cap battle camps? HoTA is meant to be a game where you risk your account/items to create PvP and get a reward for being the winner. It isn't supposed to be some mindless activity you do to farm moon metal and a glowing statue, but sadly due to poor implementation that's what this has become. 

 

If you truly want to see a 'new beginning' for PvP, I suggest you stop defending the use of alts and instead get behind the idea alts are bad and need to be severely limited, especially on PvP servers. 

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Battlecamps are supposed to spawn guards,  arent they? So theres your anti alt measure,  its just bugged. 

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Sure, Ciray, I'll answer your question directly, but you are not going to like my answer.  It goes with what I said about life cycle.  TC ruled the server for a while at it's peak.  Then WU brought TC down to it's end by constantly defeating in fights, to the point where you all stopped leaving deed.  Eventually, all of your players quit because TC could no longer win.  Then all of WU quit because there was no more competition.  

 

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39 minutes ago, Vomusu said:

Battlecamps are supposed to spawn guards,  arent they? So theres your anti alt measure,  its just bugged. 

They spawn guards if conquered... But naturally the don't..even after conquered the spawned guards do not attack you. And you don't have to kill them to conquer it back.

 

So yes they are bugged in that sense.

 

35 minutes ago, Galatyn said:

Sure, Ciray, I'll answer your question directly, but you are not going to like my answer.  It goes with what I said about life cycle.  TC ruled the server for a while at it's peak.  Then WU brought TC down to it's end by constantly defeating in fights, to the point where you all stopped leaving deed.  Eventually, all of your players quit because TC could no longer win.  Then all of WU quit because there was no more competition.  

 

 

And this has what to do with the topic of this?  Nothing so don't post unless it to about how we need to help stop alt abuse. And how the hota need to have skill restrictions. If you don't think explain why in away that is not ###### talking other players/kingdoms. 

 

And you wonder why PvP is dead... Ummmm

 

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7 hours ago, Flubb said:

It has been

0

days since the last PvP related suggestion without KvK banter mixed in.

 

As a neutral observer, I think the obvious answer to that question is that your accusation of aiming for personal gain is baseless and it really is about providing a minimum entry barrier to prevent "alt abuse". That's their premise, which you dismiss, insert your accusation of personal bias into it and suddenly have to ask for clarification on what their premise had answered perfectly fine had you not dismissed it to replace it with your accusation. Doesn't that strike you as trying to adapt observable reality to your personal perception of other people, rather than the other way around, which anyone remotely charitable would do?

 

Of course it is easy to question the motives of your opponents when they had just lost, but it just might be that the way they had lost has revealed to them a flaw in the system, whereas losing a different way that felt more in line with a satisfying and engaging PvP experience had not spawned this thread. Try to question your own biases as well for a bit, not just everyone elses.

 

I have no stake in it or enough insight to discuss wether it is alt "abuse" or just fair game, nor what went down to specifically incite your rants here, but just on paper it doesn't sound like a very straightforward and "honest" way to engage in a PvP activity if alts can be used willy nilly. It sounds metagame-ish as you can just kamikaze into the fray with significantly less skin in the game than those bringing their mains with gears and affinities to lose - who seem to want to experience this instead of playing some petty cat and mouse game. Just my 1.5 cents.

 

There is no such thing as alt abuse.  It is a subjective, dynamic measure of an account that TC/Panda uses to complain after lost events.  The same way they complain about priests being overpowered, enemy PMK using exploits, Trebs being too powerful, etc.  

 

Losing in PvP results in lost time and money.  There is no "satisfying and engaging PvP experience" when you lose real life money.  You could lose hundreds of euros in drake, scale, rare items, shaker orbs, etc.  You have to spend the time imping all of your gear over again or buying new gear.  In this case, Eva lost a resellable HotA statue and 6 Kg of Glimmer and 6 Kg of Addy.  I don't even count the medallions as having value.  I used to be in Panda.  I personally sailed with Eva and sold HotA statues for her personal benefit.  So you see, I'm dismissing her premise because it's yet just another excuse for making a change that will benefit her and not the community as a whole.

 

When you have time, read this egregious thread.  It's a completely different viewpoint of hers when I was in Panda and we were fighting TC.  I remember her telling me how the TC leader, McLovin, made her cry when she lost her scale set.  Then, when WU pushes her back to the brink of extinction, she completely changes her feelings towards TC.  People should not make suggestion threads that just benefit them.  It should be for the community as a whole.

 

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Garbage players use alts, that simple.

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