Money back on pre premmed priests

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Unfortunately I do not have a lot of time to play Wurm, as I have a busy real life.  The chopping veggies was a real game changer for me since I could actually do stuff with my priest I enjoy doing like healing at rifts, and doing other priesty stuff for which I need favor.  I don't really play with her as a "normal" character since I have another main to do that stuff.  However, the recent changes to favor gains going back to random items where you have to farm, harvest, spin, weave squares and hope for the best, means I will spend a lot of actual time allocated for games, to doing stuff to prepare to actually play the game.  Since my Fo priest will now most likely be put into the moth balls where the Vyn (who needs CoC and WOA casts these days, right?) and Mag (only so many strongwalls needed, and chain casting onto enforced walls in my perimeter kinda got boring after three days) already are, as I don't have enough time to go back to gaining favor growing and spinning tons of cotton strings to make cotton squares at a totally random ql just to actually prepare to play the game (before I can actually play what I paid for), I was wondering if I can request a refund on the premium I paid in advance based on the current state of affairs regarding favor gain with chopped veggies?  If I paid her month to month that would be fine, I would just let it run out.  However, I pay a year in advance.  Not sure what the terms and conditions say about sudden and one sided changes to game mechanics but a refund option would be greatly appreciated.  (This is on top of thousands of veggies at 99 or 100 Ql purchased in anticipation of many years of fun stuff with my Fo.)  I guess what I am asking is a refund for the changes which I do not want to embrace yet paid for a service based on current state of affairs when I paid her prem for a long time to come.

Thanks

[Retrograde 12,013]

As per the game terms and conditions we do not provide refunds. 

 

Chopped vegetables will still be a source of favour though, just balanced a little bit better, so please don't think that it isn't possible. 

[Wilczan 2,048]

Paying in advance is always risky if You afraid of changes, but at an advantage of lower price per month.

 

Wurm is always about preparation before playing.

 

Like someone said in Valrei International topic, preparation of saccables in form of vegetables was simpliest one anyway, amongst other saccables.

 

They mentioned few times that vegetables still will be valid anyway.

 

When Elevation was reset for the first time, dozens of players lost hundreds of hours of work put into deeds and other things. Many months or even years of payed premium. Without refund.

What makes You think that You get refund couse of some premmed priest?

 

 

 

[Castile 167]

So I probably shouldn't be commenting on this as I havent been around much lately but what I can see from reading some posts this change was just dropped on the player base with no advance notice or discussion.

If im recalling things correctly the changes for Elevation were discussed by the devs and the players for a Long time before they were implemented so your comparison is without merit.

 

Seems to me that anytime theres a planned change to the game that might have a dramatic effect on how people play the game there should at least be fair warning ahead of time.  Guess maybe its this complete disregard for the players of this game that keeps me from coming back full time.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

5 minutes ago, Castile said:

Seems to me that anytime theres a planned change to the game that might have a dramatic effect on how people play the game there should at least be fair warning ahead of time.  Guess maybe its this complete disregard for the players of this game that keeps me from coming back full time.

 

Thanks Cas  No harm in asking a refund since these changes have not really been explained nor discussed.  Getting assurances of some sort of  "rebalancing without proper explanation or an option to give input does not promote trust.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

3 hours ago, Wilczan said:

When Elevation was reset for the first time, dozens of players lost hundreds of hours of work put into deeds and other things. Many months or even years of payed premium. Without refund.

What makes You think that You get refund couse of some premmed priest?

 

 

 

Hello Wilczan, thank you for taking the time to respond.  If you read my post again, you will see what makes me think I could possibly ask for a refund, I never said I "must" get one.  Just to clarify, it was a request based on premium paid at a time when the parameters were set and I assumed this would remain the same, especially given the fact that people pointed out the OP nature of Nahjo when it first became part of the game, and nobody seemed to take notice.  To add to this, the many responses from players about player gods went unnoticed, so obviously someone could assume that the situation was no longer under threat of change.

[gorgian 174]

ask for a credit(s) 

[Beanbag 239]

You can still sac veggies. 

[ChampagneDragon 971]

I am sitting on 274,000 100ql chopped veggies. Yes, over a quarter million. That is currently 1,370,000 favor. They have stated that they will rebalance the favor, and are currently looking at between 2-4 favor per 100ql. So at the low end I'll have 548,00 favor, a loss of 822,000 favor. At best A loss of 274,000 favor. 

 

While not happy, I am rolling with it. There are changes being made that COULD improve the overall game. 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

9 hours ago, Castile said:

So I probably shouldn't be commenting on this as I havent been around much lately but what I can see from reading some posts this change was just dropped on the player base with no advance notice or discussion.

If im recalling things correctly the changes for Elevation were discussed by the devs and the players for a Long time before they were implemented so your comparison is without merit.

This game has something that other games don't: a certain degree of dev - player interaction. This stems from the fact that developers are mostly hired from the actual playerbase, and are player advocates first, devs second (yes, even you, @Darklords. I love you, don't be mad >_>).

 

The problem with this, and indeed this is a big problem here in WO, is that players come to expect it as the norm, and thus these kind of threads happen. No, players shouldnt be notified before updates are released, that is what patch notes are for. There are very few games that do it and is not the industry norm, with good reason. Imagine if WoW consulted every update with players? They would never get anything done.

 

The other side of the coin is that players do not need to like said changes and will vote with their wallets when this type of stuff happens. So companies have to choose what they want to deal with as both have their own problems. This time they choose to be secretive and players are reacting by choosing what to play and pay for.

 

Normal business transaction. Nothing wrong with what is happening here. Cause and effect.

[Ostentatio 1,970]

10 hours ago, Castile said:

So I probably shouldn't be commenting on this as I havent been around much lately but what I can see from reading some posts this change was just dropped on the player base with no advance notice or discussion.

 

There has been notice; that's what the announcement was. The change has not gone live yet.

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

I remember a lot of players who ground up rope making being similarly salty.

Especially since no-one expected veggies to remain ingame as a favour item of such power.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:22 AM, Angelklaine said:

This game has something that other games don't: a certain degree of dev - player interaction. 

 

The problem with this, and indeed this is a big problem here in WO, is that players come to expect it as the norm, and thus these kind of threads happen.

 

Hello Angelklaine

 

As for me personally it is an expectation to have the opportunity to ask for money back if the service I paid for will no longer be provided, whether it is a small Indy company or a huge multi million dollar company.  Customer service is not defined by the size of the company or the turnover of money, but by a mindset of providing what the customer paid for, in order to remain trustworthy and reliable for future investments.  Thus, if WoW did something similar, I would suggest people could also ask for a money back option.  Whether this will be granted is entirely up to the company, regardless of the size.  Granted, it is most likely not a "break the bank" type of amount of money, but as you rightfully indicated, it is a principle which may  be indicative of the bigger picture behind these decisions i.e. the management's attitude towards their client base.

 

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

8 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

 

Hello Angelklaine

 

As for me personally it is an expectation to have the opportunity to ask for money back if the service I paid for will no longer be provided, whether it is a small Indy company or a huge multi million dollar company.  Customer service is not defined by the size of the company or the turnover of money, but by a mindset of providing what the customer paid for, in order to remain trustworthy and reliable for future investments.  Thus, if WoW did something similar, I would suggest people could also ask for a money back option.  Whether this will be granted is entirely up to the company, regardless of the size.  Granted, it is most likely not a "break the bank" type of amount of money, but as you rightfully indicated, it is a principle which may  be indicative of the bigger picture behind these decisions i.e. the management's attitude towards their client base.

 

 

No, I understand why you are asking for money back. But in this instance its not a service not being provided, but a case of buyer's remorse. Like it has been said before, veggies will remain an option. Its like asking a store to refund your last year's purchase because the clothes are no longer part of the current fashion or asking your car dealer to give you back your money because the new model of cars has a feature yours dont.

 

Change is in the nature of mmos. In fact, it is what separates mmos from non mmo games: You are part of a living, thriving world in which the mechanics continuously change. Asking for a refund because something changed is not something that mmos can honor because then everyone would ask for a refund after each update just because people are frivolous by nature and everyone would rather play for free.

 

On top of that you checked that little box that says you agree to the EULA and the TOS when you logged in, and there is no explicit warranty that all changes will be to your liking. Don't get me wrong, I understand your plea about the changes, that is a non issue, but asking for a refund is not the way. You could ask, but CCAB is well in their right to deny you, and they are making no breach of trust or etiquette by exercising that right. That is the nature of this type of business.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

35 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

1.  No, I understand why you are asking for money back. But in this instance its not a service not being provided, but a case of buyer's remorse. Like it has been said before, veggies will remain an option. Its like asking a store to refund your last year's purchase because the clothes are no longer part of the current fashion or asking your car dealer to give you back your money because the new model of cars has a feature yours dont.

 

2.  Change is in the nature of mmos. 

 

3.  On top of that you checked that little box that says you agree to the EULA and the TOS when you logged in, and there is no explicit warranty that all changes will be to your liking.

 

Not that any of these discussions will make any difference to the fact nobody is getting any money back, but the discussion is interesting, so here goes:

 

1. No, I don't care about the new model. I purchased my model of car with some features which I was happy with, and would like those features to remain part of my model of car.  I paid for something to be part of my model, so if someone comes and says in a few months the reverse function won't work any more because all newer models will no longer be able to reverse, so too bad so sad that you built parkings which require reversing to function, your car will now also be updated despite you purchasing it with that function, then I will say take back your car, and give me my money back.  

 

I guess in this specific instance people now have the option to go to current WU servers since they will no longer be updated to new changes in WO, so generally speaking, people who do not like the new direction of WO can in fact go find a model that is still the "curent model" somewhere there.

 

2.  Change is the nature of everything.  That is why there are contracts in business to set some parameters.  I understand mmos can change their future directions, as can every business.  It does not stop clients asking for money back if the future of the business no longer suits their needs.

 

3.  Yes, that is completely true, I agree to the EULA and comply with the EULA, the TOS and other legal requirements.  In general terms people should not macro, should not bully, should not infringe, should not etc. etc.  This does not prohibit requesting money back on services which will longer be as they were sold to me at the time.  The issue in many cases are that if the company does it for one client, it will open a floodgate of others wanting the same.  

 

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

1 hour ago, Fairyshine said:

 

Not that any of these discussions will make any difference to the fact nobody is getting any money back, but the discussion is interesting, so here goes:

 

1. No, I don't care about the new model. I purchased my model of car with some features which I was happy with, and would like those features to remain part of my model of car.  I paid for something to be part of my model, so if someone comes and says in a few months the reverse function won't work any more because all newer models will no longer be able to reverse, so too bad so sad that you built parkings which require reversing to function, your car will now also be updated despite you purchasing it with that function, then I will say take back your car, and give me my money back.  

 

I guess in this specific instance people now have the option to go to current WU servers since they will no longer be updated to new changes in WO, so generally speaking, people who do not like the new direction of WO can in fact go find a model that is still the "curent model" somewhere there.

 

2.  Change is the nature of everything.  That is why there are contracts in business to set some parameters.  I understand mmos can change their future directions, as can every business.  It does not stop clients asking for money back if the future of the business no longer suits their needs.

 

3.  Yes, that is completely true, I agree to the EULA and comply with the EULA, the TOS and other legal requirements.  In general terms people should not macro, should not bully, should not infringe, should not etc. etc.  This does not prohibit requesting money back on services which will longer be as they were sold to me at the time.  The issue in many cases are that if the company does it for one client, it will open a floodgate of others wanting the same.  

 

 

1. You are missing the point entirely. As said before, veggies will still be viable. There will just be better options. How will this work is to be seen. It could be that veggies are nerfed, or that other items are boosted or something new entirely. Whats important is that just because the 2021 model came out, it doesn't mean that your 2020 car stopped working. We have to wait until the patch notes to see what the final product will be like, as CCAB is notorious of flip flopping announcements around.

 

2. But it does. The EULA and TOS you signed makes all sales final. That is the nature of mmos. Otherwise they could be sued and taken to court for any reason.

 

3. Again, yes it does. When you registered and logged in to play Wurm Online, you read, understood, and agreed that they will never refund you under any circumstances, for any reason. You accepted this condition, and now you are going back on the contract and saying you want your money back. It is not only spelled out but bolded in the EULA:

 

 

The fact you don't like it or no longer agree with it doesn't make the contract any less binding. Nor does the fact that you choose to not read it and clicked through the check box to just play the game.

 

You arent entitled to any refunds and never were, nor is CCAB in the wrong for not giving you one. 

[Mordraug 2,542]

The gaming industry's never gonna become more honest or more customer-oriented as long as there are shills whiteknighting them and saying exactly what they want to hear.  I mean, Nahjos were obviously imbalanced from the beginning, glaringly so.  Did CC address it right there on the spot?  Nope.  Did they have the decency of saying "don't get too attached, this is gonna be nerfed when we get a chance"?  Nope.  They cashed out on it for ages and are now sticking it to the people who trusted them and gambling on a new customer sucker base.

 

It's a good thing that CC can't outright pull WU from our hard drives because I'm pretty sure that they would if they could.

 

"Let's gamble on this decision, if it backfires, it's the players' loss, not ours... and best part is we won't have to answer for it, there'll always be a white knight or two willing to silence disgruntled clients for us".

[Retrograde 12,013]

 

55 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

The gaming industry's never gonna become more honest or more customer-oriented as long as there are shills whiteknighting them and saying exactly what they want to hear.  I mean, Nahjos were obviously imbalanced from the beginning, glaringly so.  Did CC address it right there on the spot?  Nope.  Did they have the decency of saying "don't get too attached, this is gonna be nerfed when we get a chance"?  Nope.  They cashed out on it for ages and are now sticking it to the people who trusted them and gambling on a new customer sucker base.

 

It's a good thing that CC can't outright pull WU from our hard drives because I'm pretty sure that they would if they could.

 

"Let's gamble on this decision, if it backfires, it's the players' loss, not ours... and best part is we won't have to answer for it, there'll always be a white knight or two willing to silence disgruntled clients for us".

 

I worry about your logic. 

 

Plenty of situations go through change, some of them are popular some aren't. Again the argument isn't "you shouldn't have removed them" it's "you should have done it sooner" Which, sure, we should have, doesn't mean we're wrong for doing it now. 

 

As for pulling WU from your hard drives.... wut? Why would we?

 

And any decision made from a statement like that last one is just filled with lack of understanding of ANY development decision. 

 

(plus angel has complained about us soooo much in the past, calling him a white knight for defending this choice is just plain wrong) 

[Fairyshine 3,183]

2 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

You arent entitled to any refunds and never were, nor is CCAB in the wrong for not giving you one. 

Totally agree with you.  Entitled and asking are two different things, luckily.  One is a person insisting on a refund, standing on contract breach (not the case here).  The other is a person asking and hoping for some refund in the interest of customer relationships (what happened here).

 

And the car analogy?  I did not say the car stopped working.  I said one component of the overall function will be removed.  Car can still move forward.  Just not reverse.  Could probably still get into those parkings I made with more hassle and more time and more frustration.  WO is still there.  It still "drives".  Just some aspects of it is removed and we still don't know how effective chopped veggies will be in the future, or even when all these things will come into effect.  Historically the player base can give input which devs look at, so it is certainly also not wrong now, so the EULA does not say "players can't even ask" or "players should never even suggest anything other than what the devs do or say."  All sales are final, but from experience I can tell you that retaining customers are most times much easier than finding new ones, which implies that sales are final but customer service can lead to exceptions.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Fairyshine

[Retrograde 12,013]

I think at this point the discussion has reached its peak. 

 

We do not offer refunds and all sales are final, your account is still in working order and even if you don't like losing some aspects of the gameplay it's not grounds for any form of compensation, we'll enable faith changes for priests affected in order you get to pick the best priest that suits you.