Retrograde

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17 minutes ago, Draiodoir said:

@RetrogradeSo how will chopped veggies remain viable and for which priests? 

 In response to just the same inquiry earlier:

 

10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I'm the update notes the specifics will be included. Chopped veggies will still be viable so it's not something that needs preperation

 

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Great update.  About time the player gods were addressed. Sorry it is difficult for some, join the club about difficult changes.  It happens, we sniffle a bit and move on. This needed to be done.

 

Looking forward to seeing the favour changes.  Please keep in mind that some of us are still "old school" and use cordage a lot.

 

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Some people whine about removing player gods instead of balancing them.

 

How do you think balance would look like? To balance existing priests you would need to nerf some, like Nahjo. So Nahjo priest owners would whine anyway.

 

Unless by balance you guys mean making all other priests as overpowered as Nahjo, but then what's the point of so many gods in pantheon?

 

Gods and priests should be rock/paper/scissors. You got some skills at the cost of others.

Edited by Wilczan

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21 minutes ago, Draiodoir said:

@Shrimpiieso all priests will still be able to use chopped veggies to sac?  

Based on the post I quoted yes; "they will remain viable" would mean they can still be used I would think.

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On 1/10/2020 at 11:30 PM, Retrograde said:

Priests

After a long time of balancing the pros and cons following the priest update over a year ago, the decision has been made to remove the ability to follow player gods entirely. 

Are you guys trying to screw us over?

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42 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

Based on the post I quoted yes; "they will remain viable" would mean they can still be used I would think.

Can be used does not mean they not going to be nerfed by 90%

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3 minutes ago, KillerSpike said:

Can be used does not mean they not going to be nerfed by 90%

 

It doesn't mean they are going to be nerfed anywhere near 90% or at all, so why do you spread so much negativity? Intentionally trying to harm the game?

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1 minute ago, Makkhoi said:

 

It doesn't mean they are going to be nerfed anywhere near 90% or at all, so why do you spread so much negativity? Intentionally trying to harm the game?

Not about being negative, just realistic. been bitten by this sort of thing before. Previously Nahjo could sac Wemp and it was taken away.

In the light of Retro's comment below it is quite obvious it will be seriously nerfed to be less effective than ' template specific favour' that is horrible in most cases due to the grid to make such saccables

 

Quote

Although popular we would like to bring more options and variety to the choice of favour, encouraging the use of more template specific favour options vs thousands of chopped vegetables. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Samool said:

The changes in no way mean that veggies will be useless as you assume them to be, it's just intended to bring all the favor items more in line to be similarly viable.

 

11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I'm the update notes the specifics will be included. Chopped veggies will still be viable so it's not something that needs preperation

 

The answers from staff keeps being vague around exactly how effective veggies will be as sac'able.

Time to give us some actual facts here. Lets nip this issue in the bud. If veggies is not going to be nerfed to death like I expect it to be then just tell us the exact numbers

 

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26 minutes ago, KillerSpike said:

Time to give us some actual facts here. Lets nip this issue in the bud. If veggies is not going to be nerfed to death like I expect it to be then just tell us the exact numbers

 

Currently it takes 20 100ql veggies to get 100 favour, it's 5 per veggie.

 

Aim is for between 2-4 per item now, given how easily produced on masse they are it does suggest that a lower number is better for balance rather than them remaining the dominant meta 

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On 1/11/2020 at 6:30 AM, Retrograde said:

Jackal

The stronghold has fallen, and Jackal has been cleansed for this round. I’d like to congratulate everyone who took part in the final battles, and a solid well done to everyone who spent their time playing on Jackal. We’ll be winding the server down and returning players back to their Freedom servers, so if you have deeds there still remember to disband them to avoid any issues with lost silver!

This is all coming at the end of January, along with a bunch of tweaks, bugfixes and adjustments, so make sure to catch us live on Twitch at Sunday, 9pm UTC to chat about what’s coming, see it all on test and ask questions! 

Will I be able to exchange jackal points for skins after closing Jackal server?

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

Currently it takes 20 100ql veggies to get 100 favour, it's 5 per veggie.

 

Aim is for between 2-4 per item now, given how easily produced on masse they are it does suggest that a lower number is better for balance rather than them remaining the dominant meta 

@RetrogradeThanks for this reply.

Now we making some progress to get to some answers.

I surely can work with 4 favour per chopped veggie. reducing it to anything below that way to drastic.

I have 20k+ 99.9 ql chopped veggies in stock. so it is roughly 100k favour.

Nerfing it to 2 or 3 favour per will reduce that to either 40k favour or 60k Favour. See why I am upset. I have put

a lot of work into grinding farming, actually farming the veggies and chopping them. To have 100k favour in stock mean I will now have to spend so much more time farming and chopping.

now you want to make it even more so by devaluing it?

 

the mass production of chopped veggies is not easier than any other sacable when you consider the time grinding farming, tending the the crops daily, then harvest and then chop them.

It takes time. a lot of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Xagru said:

Will I be able to exchange jackal points for skins after closing Jackal server?

Yes you will! We'll also be continuing to provide skins, not sure if they'll be jackal points exclusively, or something else (incase everyone runs out of jackal points)

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48 minutes ago, KillerSpike said:

the mass production of chopped veggies is not easier than any other sacable when you consider the time grinding farming, tending the the crops daily, then harvest and then chop them.

It takes time. a lot of time.

 

Tending is an inefficient use of time. Plant more fields (or use more large planters) and you will save yourself a ton of time for the same amount of chopped veggies. Because of that I don't think it should be included when determining how much effort it  takes to make chopped veggies.

Edited by Ecrir

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51 minutes ago, KillerSpike said:

the mass production of chopped veggies is not easier than any other sacable when you consider the time grinding farming, tending the the crops daily, then harvest and then chop them.

It takes time. a lot of time.

 

Dont spread disinformation. Chopped veggies are by far the easiest sacable to make, hense everyone just chopped them. 2 favour per 100ql chopped veggie seems just fine. 

 

Take a comparison: 

 

locks - requires good ql iron to be mined, high locksmithing skill that is hard to grind and in the end you still get random QL lock to sac

Cordages - requires wemp (farming as for chopping), then needs very high ropemaking skill (one of the hardest to grind in game) and in the end, you still get random QL rope nowhere near raw material QL.

square cloth - farming, then needs tailoring (not particularly hard to grind) to get strings of cloth at random QL, then needs making cloth at random QL again. noone does that, not viable gains compared to time spent.

 

And then you have copped veggies atm. you farm, then reap the harvest and then just chop. basically no skill required and once you have a bit of cooking they average basically raw material QL. Mega easy to spam.

 

So yes, my friend, chopped veggies are by FAR the easiest sacable to make in game.

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20 hours ago, Grifo said:

 

So since Libila is a PVE god, how come the PVE god cannot cast strongwall on a PVE server? Are you planning on changing it so Lib can cast strongwall on PVE?

Isnt Libila going back to be only PvP again after change?

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:28 AM, Syhl said:

Not really good for veggies market ... 😩

proberly going back to wemp again as it was before 

 

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25 minutes ago, Maiya said:

Isnt Libila going back to be only PvP again after change?

I do not think so. As Ecrir described, Libila is a quite useful deity in PvE as well, and not few players like the "dark" athmosphere of being a Libila priest, maybe follower as well if some suggestions are adopted.

 

Yet, if this hasty and ruthless change had any thought and sense in it (I am not sure), it was the removal of "Swiss Army Knife" priests. And as pointless and ridiculous hateful rants about overpowered "Naaacho" were, indeed the assembly of animal repair, mailing, and strongwall in one priest was a disservice to deity diversity (all the rest like WoA, LitDark etc. just fluff). It resulted in an overly large share of Nahjo priests among all, and drained the Magranon priesthood in particular.

 

Libila, with BotD, dark messenger, BT, Venom. AosP etc. is already a very powerful deity, and that is ok. But assigning strongwall to Libila in PvE would break deity balance even worse than player gods did.

Edited by Ekcin
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On 1/11/2020 at 1:56 AM, Retrograde said:

We're aware it's going to be a painful change for some, but it's something we've danced around for a long time and have decided that it needs to happen. Juggling so many different variations just becomes too much to balance and watered down the importance of the main gods. We want to shift back to the four gods with reliance on their prospective favoured sacrificing items rather than a huge range of player gods and chopped vegetables. 

 

I totally get it's a blow for some, but in the long run is better for Wurm as a whole. 

 

Obviously they do not understand how much of a blow this is. The main reason people went with the player gods is because they were not stuck in a completely idiotic box with spells that had NO VALUE, they had ones that had quite a few spells of value and they could have fun with the absurd amount they have to pay for a game that barely adds anything. I saw no poll, I saw nothing to alert people to raise up and voice their opinions and the ONLY two things I can think of are as follows:

 

1. Devs that helped shape the original gods threw temper tantrums because people wanted useful gods.

 

2. Pure laziness in trying to balance for PVP when that is the LOWEST POPULATION in this game.

 

I scratch my head and wonder, who in charge makes idiotic major changes and thinks they are not going to lose quite a few people who play the game. I for one will not premium my priest now because being stuck vynora (the others are equal parts worthless) and only being an equipment enchanter is completely worthless to me because I have to follow the asian grindfest logic this game is to get high enough tool making to actually be worth a few copper. The game is designed to not allow new players to make it in the market and now you push older players out and refuse to make changes to some I have seen people talk about specifically skill gain speed, increasing it just a bit.

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Hyperbole and ad hominem attacks may make for good rhetoric but are a poor choice for persuasion or discourse. 

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Are there any plans to introduce "the carrot".. or there's just the "stick" planned with priest content?

There's not much to work with when replacing a nacho for example.. the courier/aosp/dirt/woa/genesis.... maybe LT (I stopped tracking if that wasn't removed from nacho(read all deities) with last big priest changes...)

 

To do these spells with original gods.. you'll need several priests to cover such 'basic' needs some have worked on a priest because it solved just their everyday troubles... now they have to pay for on average for 2-3x premium characters to get same things done?

I do not believe that will happen...

 

Additionally.. expect a huge prem drop with traders starting to fade and quit the game entirely.. there wont be much reason to prem many chars to do bulk work if they can not sell for irl currency(one reason is that paying 80e for 12 months is what 6.66~ euro a month.. offer you CAN NOT beat with paying in silver at token; closest is paying nearly same price for half the prem time);

Unless somebody have a mental state that requires playing markets online.. and trading goods with people for it's dopamine addiction... I highly doubt there will be many big traders left in wurm.

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on the topic of saccables, mag and vyns kinda suck. lib can farm black mushrooms which are 15 favor at 100ql each, and you get a whole bunch of them from planters, fo can use cloth squares which can use tailoring imbues on both making strings and making the squares and ends up being a very nice alternative thats easy to make, and any rare+ ones you make have a variety of nice things you can make from them, mags skill is creation only which means its 3x slower than a normal skill, around closer to 5x slower than grinding an imping skill if you're sweet spotting it, it's absurdly hard to raise compared to the other ones. mag and vyn can only use imbues on the gathering of materials for door locks and yoyos, and neither of these things can be put into a bsb, and have no extra value rare+ except as a meal.

 

cordage still sucks until super high skills too, 70 skill 70ql tool+mats gets you 2.18 favor on average,using a 90 skill 90ql tool+mats gets you 6.5 favor per rope on average, 90ql/90 skill fully imbued rope tool gets you 9.2 on average, and 99ql tool+mats 99 skill fully imbued gets you 12.5 favor on average. pre-veggie saccables are extremely heavily weighted towards higher ql and therefore higher skilled characters, whereas chopped veggies didn't have such an absurd curve due to 1ql = 0.05 favor. even with chopped veggies being a thing, many people find casting to be an chore due to how long it can take to get the materials together to do some casting, making it worse doesn't help.

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1 hour ago, Kohle said:

Hyperbole and ad hominem attacks may make for good rhetoric but are a poor choice for persuasion or discourse. 

Well, people letting steam out, not hard to understand. But I agree that furious polemics do not change anything. Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that polite speech, rational reasoning and persuasion do not lead anywhere, either. Though a new low-point in customer relations and style of decision making, this is far not the first one.

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i hope "random affinity" reward will not give affinity in skill that we already have at 100.0 - that would be nonsense :D

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