Retrograde

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So more broken promises. First, the damage on bedrolls was denied. Then, a reversal was promised. Now, it proves that the Christmas gift will decay and vanish. The player god change is suicidal for Wurm. It will not revive PvP, but drive out lots of accounts from PvE. Personally, I shall terminate my Nahjo priest prem on elapse. No need for another priest of the three, we have that in alliance already.

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6 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

So more broken promises. First, the damage on bedrolls was denied. Then, a reversal was promised. Now, it proves that the Christmas gift will decay and vanish. The player god change is suicidal for Wurm. It will not revive PvP, but drive out lots of accounts from PvE. Personally, I shall terminate my Nahjo priest prem on elapse. No need for another priest of the three, we have that in alliance already.

I was mistaken with the damage on bedrolls sorry for that. It won't decay and vanish, this update will allow it to be repaired and improved. 

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@RetrogradeRegarding the loyalty system, will we be granted points for past premium purchases or is this starting fresh from the release?  Also regarding the player god removal, are there any plans to adjust the base god spell lists at the same time, or they'll be as they are now? 

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Not really expecting that the consequences of the priest change have been thought through, right a question: Did you (I be you did not) consider what to do with the player god altars once the player gods are removed (or are they already)? Will there be a possibility to convert them too or will they litter the landscape as monuments of shame and wrong decisions?

 

To add that: Yes, I am not amused. Though, many of the other changes are really good and promising. As always, I admire and highly respect the activities of the developer team, and think that they are doing a great job in general. But planning in Wurm seems to be fairly wanting, and sometimes looks like rushing to decisions prematurely while having waited too long before. With all due respect for the creator of this awesome game: this smells Rolf.

Edited by Ekcin
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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

New Loyalty System

 

Third person Wurm

 

 

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!!!!!!!

Edited by Malena
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So are there any plans to rebalance the spell lists to go along with this change? Right now some of the deities like Nahjo offer a unique collection of utility spells, like Genesis and Strongwall. With just the template priests you'd need both a Fo and Mag priest for that.

 

I hope the devs will consider why people currently have priests of certain player deities and then incorporate some of those things into the template deities.

Edited by Ecrir
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I approve of loyalty system, sounds great.

I approve of the fact you are removing player gods, I also recently depriested a 100 faith paw and currently getting faith back up. But that is just bad luck.

I do not really approve of the chopping removal :D but i will survive.

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The picture is really lovely :)

 

The news are interesting. I can understand how it will upset a lot of people who have currently the priests of demigods, especially since a lot of PVE players tried to get a priest with necessities in one, and strongwall is an important one for almost any large building projects, and that is a huge part of what we do on PVE :D 

 

Still, i am looking forward to the changes, and hoping they either come out reasonable and balanced or will be balanced afterwards if it doesn't work out too well.

Very cool idea about the loyalty system :) I don't expect it to be applied to already done purchases, but its great enough to have it at all :)

 

Thank You for your work!

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Personally I ALWAYS hated the Player god mechanic. It was always broken and unbalanced, I think it's just a shame that it's taken the devs to realise this was terrible idea in the first place.

Ongoing a focus on just 4 major gods makes complete sense and hopefully result in a better balanced game in the long-run both for PvP and PvE. 

Whilst I can understand some peoples frustrations on not being able to access some important spells (because certain player gods were more blessed than others). The fact that one god has so many crucial spells for your everyday stuff is a perfect demonstration that some were OP and others vastly irrelevant on the basis of the order of the algorithm that they were generated under. 

 

I feel like Wurm is going to be making many more of these unpopular and hurtful changes in the lead up to releasing on steam. However, looking forward. It's better to make these changes now than continue to pretend its not an issue and have continued impacts hurting the game. (This applies not just to player gods but also to many other factors of the game I hope to see changed.)

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Not really good for veggies market ... 😩

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2 minutes ago, Emoo said:


Whilst I can understand some peoples frustrations on not being able to access some important spells (because certain player gods were more blessed than others). The fact that one god has so many crucial spells for your everyday stuff is a perfect demonstration that some were OP and others vastly irrelevant on the basis of the order of the algorithm that they were generated under. 

 

The priest revision fixed a lot of this, I now see priests of various gods being used.  Currently they provide options, not everyone wants the same set of spells as every other player.  I hate to see these options being removed because the devs find it hard to balance more gods that four.  Also, most the balance complaints are on the pvp side and I once again ask why is pve losing choice for pvp balance?

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Also, this is a good discussion that should have happened before this decision was made.

 

Regardless of my feelings about the priest change, I do like the work done on the rewards system. It looks very promising and I always like more options being added.

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Priests

After a long time of balancing the pros and cons following the priest update over a year ago, the decision has been made to remove the ability to follow player gods entirely. 

 

Speaking as someone who owns 3 player god accounts:

 

A difficult, but necessary change in my opinion. This has always been one of the key areas of imbalance in this game. It was always obvious that the player gods feature had not been fully thought through before being introduced. 

 

However, I do feel this will also need a further rebalance of the original gods to ensure BL is not overly crippled without access to these player god spells. For example, genesis and nimbleness.

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1 minute ago, BrokenSanity said:

 

However, I do feel this will also need a further rebalance of the original gods to ensure BL is not overly crippled without access to these player god spells. For example, genesis and nimbleness.

 

I always felt the original gods were poorly balanced and if we are returning to a system of WL vs BL either BL will have to go back to having WL priests on the side or Lib becomes an everything goddess.  There is room for more than just those four. If the devs don't like the player gods, make up some new ones. Its your lore.

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will the loyalty system be retroactive, will we get points for previous months subbed, or does it start at 0 ?

 

and [09:54:35] You sow the wemp.

 

Time to do ropemaking it seems. I actually appreciate you giving me something to do :D

Edited by Cenotaph
typo
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95% of the current players are PvE, but you're willing to piss them off in favor of the 5%? Whether you like it or not, this is a PvE game with PvP as a sidenote. Do you really think that some PvP gamer on Steam is gonna come to Wurm and think this is the greatest PvP game ever? No. The target audience on Steam is naturally going to be a PvE player. So don't go pissing off your existing base chasing some mythical, as yet unrealized, flood of PvP'ers coming in on the Steam launch.

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13 minutes ago, Cenotaph said:

will the loyalty system be retroactive, will we get points for previous months subbed, or does it start at 0

 

To add to the question, say we currently have active store bought premium until this summer, would we get points for those months once this new system goes live?

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Player gods are going to go...

 

I honestly thought this was a lost cause; as it will hit subscription numbers (though, probably not player numbers).


Priest balance is a long running issue that has been heavily discussed by the player base:

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/171645-priest-informationsuggestions/&tab=comments#comment-1750063
https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/158546-priest-religion-overhaul/

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/153634-4-years-1-spell/

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/165882-priest-overhaul-testing/


Go digging, there are a lot more threads and opinion is generally very polarised.

It is not just a change to "satisfy the tiny PvP player base"; a lot of the players panning Nahjo and player gods are PvE players.  The dev who actually undertook the priest overhaul admitted there were still a lot of balance issues.  This is not a decision that has ignored player input.  This is the result of a discussion running over years.

 

They're trying (for better or worse) to avoid a huge issue in the new steam wurm online (which many of the people panning player god removal are strongly in favour of) whereby an overpowered priest type was added, and was acknolwedged as overpowered, but was forced to remain in the game because players had "got used to it".

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5 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:


Priest balance is a long running issue that has been heavily discussed by the player base:
 

While I've read a lot of the discussion on priest balance before, I don't think I remember the idea of removing all the player gods completely as being one of the topics. I'm sure it has been brought up as an option but I missed the discussion about it. My apologies if its in one of the links you provided, most seemed familiar and I did not reread them in full.

 

If player gods are to be removed, I'd hope a few new balanced ones are added by the devs. I find the original four to be unbalanced and limited.

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25 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

95% of the current players are PvE, but you're willing to piss them off in favor of the 5%? 

 

Just going to point out that 95% of the PvE playerbase probably was opposed to (or pissed off as you put it) the player gods being forced upon them by something happening on a PvP cluster (Epic) when player gods was introduced.

I always felt that adding player gods was a terrible choice, and fixing that choice at some point is better than allowing it to stay on forever.

 

 

 

 

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The problem with the gods is that only the three template gods have a real purpose on PvE. Libila is useless on Freedom. Removing the player gods, meaning all BL gods too, makes her even more useless.

 

The three WL deities made sense lore/rp wise, both in PvE and PvP. Vynora as the Pallas Athene of Wurm, of knowledge and human creations, Magranon as the Hephaistos/Ares, of elements and warfare, Fo as a general deity of nature and the living (to some extent the Aphrodite/Hermes aspect, but more than that), and of communication.

 

Libila is just antithesis, counterpart of the three. Even the possible aspect of a deity of death is not elaborated at all, so she lacks individuality. For balance purposes in PvP she is a super deity, uniting all abilities of the three in herself. That is and was not possible in PvE, and will not be.

 

Allowing Libila to Freedom did not follow any thought through concept, it was but a giving in to player wishes, due to the fact that BL player gods already existed and played a major role in PvE.

 

With BL deities gone blacklighters will be stranded on Freedom. Giving Libila all BL demigod spells would break balance even worse. Removing Libila from Freedom would alienate more players though.

Edited by Ekcin
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1 hour ago, Cenotaph said:

will the loyalty system be retroactive, will we get points for previous months subbed, or does it start at 0 ?

 

Retro did make a comment about this, but as it was in the same stream as the comments about the bedroll taking damage.... Probably best to wait for a definitive statement, rather than repeat something that might have changed...

 

Thinking about the loyalty system, are there going to be any changes to the premium reward titles? Will they still be for premium since Dec. 2013?

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Nice! good updates and well explained, ty retro for the hard work (and other devs) :)  Remember to send some notifications via mail to everyone about priest changes etc, it might bring us few more people back. 

 

 

*edit* what does this mean to people in WL kingdom which are following BL player gods? since we cant follow libila in WL kingdom, do i get kicked out of kingdom or?

Edited by Themystrix
removal of player gods, what it means in PvP
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I really like the loyalty system!

On the priests: I think the player gods must go. It will hurt, will hurt me too. With them gone the current gods may need some tweaking spell-wise (Mag losing AoSP still hurts on PVE) and I'm not really happy with chopped veggies going at the first sight at least. The extra favour items are not balanced between gods, curent Fo and Vyn ones are quite a pain to make, they would definitely need something comparably easy to doorlocks. Onthe other hand, doorlocks require the terrible grind of locksmithing, could get some for the other gods which require similarly hard skills to create but fruiting afterwards. And no - don't even think about balancing it by removing locks from Mag please.

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On the altars of the player gods: I guess they may just go blank and blessing them can reactivate them to another god. I would consider adding easy bashing when not blessed to make it easy to get rid of altars not needed anymore.

Edited by Jaz
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