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What Is Wrong With Wurm?

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6 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

One thing that's wrong with Wurm that hasn't been mentioned is the behaviour of the community. Yes, that's right, it's OUR behaviour in Wurm that's wrong and that's one of the reasons people are leaving. Because they're fed up with how some players treat certain events, how some players were protected by (former) staff members and that certain players still try to monopolize some things.

I'll post a list of examples, some just related to my homeserver, Xanadu, some are most likely happening at all servers.

 

1) Rifts:

When rifts were introduced, they were consider as player events where a large group of players at a server gathered, build a protective area, including one or more altars dedicated to several Deity's (but Fo was always one of those), occasional imping and when the rift opened a group of 50+ players tried to shut it down.

It didn't take long before some players realized that they could benefit from this by having alts nearby, making it a lot easier to harvest the resources the moment the last heart was sacced. As a counter reaction, it was decided to have players get a reward straight into their inventory, as well as some rift materials to avoid that kind of abuse.

 

Nowadays we have players gathering near the rift area ample minutes before it opens, kill enough monsters to get the hearts for saccing and while one fool player still sacs the last hearts, the rest is already waiting with their axes and pickaxes raised to loot for rift mats as fast as they can, before everyone rushes off to their deed with their earned treasures.

Gone are the days of having a player event; nowadays it has become a treasure hunt to gather as many mats as fast as  you can, while also trying to get as many Rift points as possible.

 

2) Markets:

 

At Xan we got a certain group of players who had the idea to set up markets near every starter  towns the server has.

Personally, I think the idea was quite a good one. Having one market near a starter town would give new players an opportunity to buy better equipment.

However, where things went wrong is that one player owning many of those deeds, decided to drop 3-4 of his own merchants at the markets; making it quite hard for other players to compete.

So what we got now is one merchant of player A selling tools, one merchant of player A selling weapons, one merchant of player A selling armour and one merchant of player A selling enchanted items and one merchant of player B selling a bit of everything. Eventually resulting at player B removing his merchant, because he won't make a profit at all.

 

While all of that happened, one of the players of that specific group decided to drop a market deed basically at the doorstep of another player. When being asked about moving the deed, the comment "deed it or loose it" was used, that specific player got some protection of a (at the time) staff member, resulting in the player having access to the deed being lost, leaving the game. Taking quite some players from her alliance wit her.

At the same time, a highway was messed up near another starter town - without informing or asking the builders about it - road signs were placed INSIDE! startertown borders; something you can't do as a regular player; meaning a staff member - my guess;  the same former one that protected the player in the previous mentioned case - has given a regular player rights that player never should have gotten in the first place.

 

And to conclude things, not that long ago, the same player decided to change a piece of highway at Newspring; without asking ANYONE!! living at that island if they would mind if he did that. And once again, using the same phrase: "deed it or loose it".

 

3) Prices of goods:

 

With the amount of more skilled players increasing over time, the market slowly got flooded with higher ql items. Since it's always a matter of offer and demand when it comes to selling things, prices began to drop to make sure a player was able to sell what he made.

The result is known; items costing 2-3 silver three years ago are being sold for 0.75 - 1 silver nowadays.

When I began playing, a 70ql Knarr would cost a player 8S; an 80ql Knar would sell for 9S and a 90ql Knarr would sell for 10-11S.

Not long ago, I saw a 90ql Knarr with either volume or speed rune and 43 Large crates being offered for the same 8S that would get you a 70ql ship four years ago.

The reason is what I mentioned before, more and more players getting higher skills and the only way to compete with that is to offer better items.

However, better items also have less decay, making it less useful to imp them or to sell new ones. Which results in more items flooding the market, resulting in a drop of prices to sell some, which results in higher items being sold etc.

 

4) Uniques and private hunting groups:

Just like rifts, uniques are meant to be hunted down and killed as a community event. However, ever since I began playing this game four years ago, there have been private hunting groups who've been looking for, penning and killing uniques, after which they sold the blood / bones / hides / scale if they liked or used parts to either create armoud or potions which were sold.

The "excuse" I heard for doing that is that the ones being part of a hunting group have to make enough money to cover the cost of the alts and the deeds used to find and pen the uniques.

 

However, when it comes to deeding for a certain purpose, those building highway tunnels are having costs too. And unlike deeds set up for an unique slaying which often are only "active" for a few weeks, a tunnel project may take months; meaning the deed costs are significant more.

Yet, the moment a player building a highway tunnel would set up something like a toll-booth over the highway, charging everyone who wants to us the tunnel 25c to cover the 6S that player spend to maintain a deed, quite some players wouldn't like that.

But at the same time it's tolerated when a private hunting group is doing that and selling the items they got at high prizes, as their only competition is another private hunting group.

 

 

5) Impalongs:

 

5a) I won't spend much time at this, but has anyone noticed that we've had impalongs organized by the same persons for the past years now? When something like that happens, at some point no-one will organize an impalong, as we all know there's going to be one at "X specific date at Y specific deed / server".

 

5b) On top of that, the focus has changed from imping items for free with some games as minor entertainment, to major entertainment and arena fights and imping only done by those who aren't interested in fun and games; or those not being able to be online when the fun and games are happening.

The result of that is that players are beginning to be left out and eventually decide they may as well leave the game completely. After all, why stick around in a game where you're considered a lesser part of the community, simply because you're living at another continent?

 

 

Bottom line,

 

While Wurm was a community driven game when some of us - and myself included - began playing, it's more and more becomming a game for a bunch of egocentric players who don't give a damn about others, as long as they're having a good time. Resulting in those who are willing to do things for the community either feel neglected, ignored or simply deciding to leave the game.

And  those players who're still prepared to do community things, are more and more keeping quiet about it and / or deciding it's not worth their time, money and effort anymore. Usually resulting in partially finished projects which are no good to anyone.

 

 

Thorin :)

 

 

 

And the real cause is RMT , pure greed above all else cause a lot of Wurms issues .

To many use this game for personal cash grab ...

 

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3 hours ago, Damascus said:

 

And the real cause is RMT , pure greed above all else cause a lot of Wurms issues .

To many use this game for personal cash grab ...

 

I don't think the RMT is the real cause there. If something is shiny or has bigger numbers, people want it. There is loot drama in every game with loot.

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I left Wurm in 2008 and honestly it's still the same old game as I remember. 

To get new players Wurm has to change a lot, thing is it has not really happened in ways that make new players feel that the game is entertaining and not an infinite repeat of clicking on the mouse and waiting for things to happen again and again and again.

 

Regards to old friends : Oracle , Eir , Wintersolstice, to just name a few gone but not forgotten.

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Very true and would need to be more in line with what other MMO's have available. Many that survive add new and exciting features, update the engine, streamline skill gain and enhance it to draw people in, and much much more. Wurm has been pretty stagnant for years despite the small changes made here and there and the "new" jackal server which just kind of feels like a wurm unlimited server converted into a wurm online "exciting new thing".

 

I would love to see more people jump in and play, more people want to interact but when you live on some of these servers that are dead (Peak time 10, maybe 15 if lucky) you get little to no interaction and travel is so god awful slow you don't have people to chat with to make the time go by. Realism is fine and dandy but when the numbers are not in line to sustain and are on a decline because there is nothing to keep people in there is a problem. If the problem is lack of ability to see the future then the ones that can't should be demoted and new blood put in to give the game fresh insight into how the game should progress.

 

Real money trading for characters and items is an issue in any game that allows it. People do it, sell their stuff to others in order to profit in the real world giving the other an advantage. (Is this even possible in a mostly PVE game?) I am not against purchasing stuff for old, outdated, heavily underperforming games from the companies like enhanced xp gain (Skill gain) potions, indestructible tools, etc but I can agree with some that the real money trading is not helping the game because the company isn't getting their cut to hire programmers who can either update the game into an engine that is not java based so more can be done.

 

I would love to see more things added to the game that are not just skill based updates like the fishing update, which I still don't understand why it was needed to be made so complicated unless someone needed to justify a paycheck. Progress the game forward in years, add more items, for the love of god let some buildings on long abandoned deeds decay faster (I am sorry, waiting 6 months for a 70QL 1x1 that someone created to hold a hota statue is beyond stupid), and give the GM's the ability to enhance the experience of the players who are on PVE (Which should have an entirely different mindset than PVP) and not use the excuse "Well we arn't allowed to do it on PVP so we can't on PVE". 

 

Probably makes little sense as I am beyond exhausted right now and may try to clean it up later but my feelings on this game that is slowly taking a nose dive due to lack of new content, overly hateful skill gain progress after 20, and little to no reason for people to keep playing unless it is your primary job because I am tired of waiting a week to see 1 skill point gain (Have a job and responsibilities outside of the game so I can't live on it 8 to 12 hours a day).

Edited by pherik

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What is right? 

Amount of content and skills. The game has so much it's almost infinite, at least for new players. For veterans, ok, new content is always welcome, but new players are actually a lot more important to the game. There is plenty to do for years. It would be more beneficial to streamline, fix bugs, make existing thing more enjoyable than actually adding new stuff. 

 

Terraforming, building houses, roads. Crafting. It's all fantastic.

 

Exploration. Can be a lot of fun and danger. Also rewarding if you find old decaying settlements. 

 

Deeds. It's great to get to own some land

 

What is wrong?

The price. Wurm is too expensive for what it is. I think 16 euro for 2 months is ok, but then I would like to have at least 3-5 characters. Add to this the cost of deeds and it get too much. I know some people say that they never have to pay with real money, but I don't believe in that, maybe if are a veteran and take account selling and such into account, but I don't do that and new players will not do that for a long time either. 

 

Combat. The PvE combat in Wurm is terrible. Extremely boring and repetitive. I never understood why nothing has happened to this aspect of the game since many years back. Minor adjustment, have been done to damage numbers etc. but nothing that really made a difference. 

 

LAG. Xanadu.. something is wrong with it. 

 

Dividing the player base. Almost everyone seems to agree on this and yet it keeps happening again and again.  New servers, Epic, WU... 

 

Complex game mechanics. New game mechanics are great, but why do they have to be so complicated? For example the new cooking mechanics sounds like a great addition, until you realise  you need high ql meat, fish, vegetables, tools, fires.. etc etc. It's going to take a new player several years to get the skills to do anything useful. Most people just give up is my guess, I know I have almost done so and I actually have a lot of the skills needed already. It's interesting and very thought out game mechanics, but sadly almost nobody will have the time to enjoy it.

 

Edited by Torgrim
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5 hours ago, Torgrim said:

Dividing the player base. Almost everyone seems to agree on this and yet it keeps happening again and again.  New servers, Epic, WU... 

 

Complex game mechanics. New game mechanics are great, but why do they have to be so complicated? For example the new cooking mechanics sounds like a great addition, until you realise  you need high ql meat, fish, vegetables, tools, fires.. etc etc. It's going to take a new player several years to get the skills to do anything useful. Most people just give up is my guess, I know I have almost done so and I actually have a lot of the skills needed already. It's interesting and very thought out game mechanics, but sadly almost nobody will have the time to enjoy it.

 

A lot of interesting points, Torgrim. I would like to comment on the last two.

 

I absolutely agree with the first one - dividing the player base. It seems to me that most attempts to revitalize the game usually involve some form of division. While new servers - for instance - were always meant to drive new players in, in the end they just segmented us. I understand that it's not easy to promote the game without showing some glitter, but I humbly believe that any promotion or revitalization of Wurm needs to ensure that the population concentrates, not divides. Xanadu, Epic, WU were all monumental achievements, but they segmented us more and left some of those new ventures rather empty.

 

I will, however, respectfully disagree with your second statement. It is my experience that games with simple game mechanics appeal to the masses but for a very short time. Simple-mechanics games drive people in in droves, but they are quickly mastered and easily forgotten. Almost everyone moves on and the game relies on the revolving door of people to stay alive. Now, I fully understand the irony here - Wurm is complex and we are still discussing the lack of players in it - so complexity doesn't always guarantee big player numbers. But in my experience those players who like to stick with games (as opposed to players who simply rotate through them) value complexity in their experience. So, while cooking in Wurm is a game in itself, it has enough variety, challenge and longevity to appeal to those with desire to find a home on the Internet.

 

I think our problem is - and I believe many already brought this up - the market itself. There are SO many games out there... so many choices. The chipmunk-level attention span of an average gamer out there has never been more indulged. It's infinitely hard to capture enough attention out there to establish a solid playerbase without resorting to periodic hypes. And our hypes in the past - while well meant - left us fragmented more. Still, being competitive out there is hard, these days. Wurm is unique, but that doesn't guarantee exposure. I wish there was a magic pill here.

 

So, as much as I personally really dread the Steam direction, for fear that our current WO servers will simply become a second-rate land of the remaining holdouts, it may just be the solution we need. I hope Steam won't mean that the current WO servers will become bare, as everyone flocks to the Steam version of Wurm instead. We will see. But if low population is indeed our problem - as many seem to suggest - than we need to go where the players are.

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I personally think Wurm has had an awesome run. It IS well over a decade old though. That's ages in game life.

 

Any changes that would have to be pretty substantial to really revitalize the game to previous numbers.

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Well my two cents worth or get banned one of the two haha,

 

WURM Sandbox Adventure PVE/PVP Game???

 

Sandbox: Yes, pretty good for crafting all around.

 

Adventure: No (other rifts which are so looooong and boring) where is the adventure. I have suggested dungeons, ruins, maybe deserted islands we can't deed that have ruins and dungeons that have things to do with Jackal or the WURMian Gods. Thats adventure. Did any of the Devs every play Dungeons and Dragons? Come on get your fekking dice out and learn what people want in a game.

 

PVE: Boring, needs something more link it with ruins and such, dungeons, something for the love of the Gods, make it not boring.

 

PVP: Look at popular pvp games that are thriving and see what those players want then bring that to WURM, make sieging more realistic and more realistic castle walls or something I don't know, (throws empty scotch bottle)

 

Sail time on Xanadu: Shrink the server borders or something, it takes 2 hours sometimes to sail between servers where the other servers are 30 mins tops.

 

Portals: You Devs say neigh but when it takes a half day to travel to a rift as they are always in south Xan, and a half day back, why can we not have portals to the Starter towns? We used to have enough players with priests who would gladly summon for a modest fee, but oh hey you have banned or ruined the game so many people have given up, quit, or been banned or friends have been banned they went somewhere else. We players are the investors per say and if this was a company and we were stock holders, i think we would be having elections or seeking new employees to fix WURM

 

Lastly, I hope Gamer's Chest People are reading the forums and seeing whats happened and will do an amazing job to fix WURM, it has so much potential, such as, I could someday seeing a WURMIAN world based on the Forgotten Realm world with enough player base to run awesome campaigns, ya ya i know i dream a lot. But it is possible. Anything is possible if you dream it,

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10 hours ago, Torgrim said:

The price. Wurm is too expensive for what it is. I think 16 euro for 2 months is ok, but then I would like to have at least 3-5 characters. Add to this the cost of deeds and it get too much. I know some people say that they never have to pay with real money, but I don't believe in that, maybe if are a veteran and take account selling and such into account, but I don't do that and new players will not do that for a long time either. 

 

Combat. The PvE combat in Wurm is terrible. Extremely boring and repetitive. I never understood why nothing has happened to this aspect of the game since many years back. Minor adjustment, have been done to damage numbers etc. but nothing that really made a difference. 

 

LAG. Xanadu.. something is wrong with it. 

 

Dividing the player base. Almost everyone seems to agree on this and yet it keeps happening again and again.  New servers, Epic, WU...

 

 

Definetly agree that the price needs to come down for Wurm to grow.  It seems cheap  until you realize that you need multiple characters if you want to have access to everything, and then a deed as well (so you need to buy silver every now and then). At that point the game becomes more expensive than many other MMOs out there just to have all the basic functionality. Back in the day when Wurm was still growing it was also a lot cheaper. Didn't that growth pretty much come to an end around the time of the price increase, likely making it worse when the far cheaper alternative of WU was added?

 

The combat has indeed always been terrible, that entire system needs to be torn out and replaced with something more active. Maybe something close to either what Morrowind had (so active attacking and blocking, but still with RNG and skills in the background to determine if you actually hit or not), or closer to Oblivion/Skyrim. Morrowind like combat is probably the better fit for an MMO like Wurm.

 

I haven't had any noticable lag issues on Xanadu myself for quite a while. Playing from The Netherlands myself in case location or timezone has something to do with it.

 

As for dividing the player base, they indeed keep making that same mistake, now they plan to do it again with Steam, by the looks of it because steam doesn't allow RMT. They should seriously just rip RMT out of Wurm already if it's becoming an obstacle, and then combine that with a price decrease on premium and silver. Then use the existing servers for the Steam launch and almost everybody wins. Steam isn't even the miracle any more that it used to be, so many games are released on it every day that most of them just get buried, I honestly think Wurm is a few years too late if it's hoping to see growth from going to Steam. I hate to say it, but they might have more success by going to a store with less games on it, like Epic.

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33 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Didn't that growth pretty much come to an end around the time of the price increase

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was dropping before the price increase, and months after the price increase it started growing again, so no.

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@Valdor, I do agree with you. But I think that the game would benefit a lot from attracting new players and getting the hooked for at least a year. The complex mechanics doesn't help with that because it takes so much time to get to the point where you can enjoy them. For the veterans it works differently of course, but I think getting 1000 new players per year that stays for at least one or two years is better than keeping 50 vets for 15 years. It get the economy going, more player interaction, more income for devs etc. 


@Ecrir, Xanadu lag is a lot less noticeable now that there are seldom over 100 people online but it's still more than on the other servers. It was a lot worse when there where hundreds of players online. I live in Sweden with just a few ms network latency so that is not the problem, I think if you look at the server lag graphs it's clearly visible.  

Edited by Torgrim
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What is wrong with Wurm?

 

Great number of bugs and flaws that were reported like months or even years ago and are still present.

 

And how combat looks in eyes of new players.

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Combat.  No interest here, other than simply not dying.

Learning Curve without good tutorials to actually get players crafting.

 

Price per character is steep, when people like to have alts.

Lack of good way to buy/sell in a stable market for a new character.

 

Just my 2c.

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I'll keep it short and sweet:

1. Not enough players

2. More sleep bonus time, 24hrs minimum.

3. People getting mad for having new neighbors (asking permission to deed in heavier populated area)

 

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My two cents, as someone that has been playing for I don't know...2011? 2012? Some good years at least. * Sorry for the textwall crit *

 

1. Most things aren't as advertised and gamers come in with the mentality from other games. For example they expect combat to be as dynamic as it is in World of Warcraft, or other mmos. It's not. Combat is tedious , it's ridiculously archaic (Text box feedback? Really? How many people can actually keep up with the text box when 3-4 mobs are on you? The text scrolls by so fast I can't figure out who hit me for what dmg). Even now, I'd rather get a feedback on how much dmg I actually did, how much armor I have, etc. In actual numbers so I can figure out as a new player what I am doing wrong.

 

On that subject, most things aren't as advertised either. Building for new players is a big chore that makes em burn out fast. My first building project many years ago when I wanted to build my first village implied terraforming, gathering wood, bricks, mats, etc. It took weeks and frankly, when all the mats were ready I was too tired to actually build the damn place so I quit for a few months. Grinding is boring as hell. There aren't many actual fun aspects that offer reward on par with the time invested. I got to 100 skill in something.

 

2. I agree that the community is part of the issue , but partly is also on what makes and breaks Wurm at the same time. Wurm's philosophy is that it's a player driven game. The content is made by us. But how much content can players make? How much content can players make until a few groups of people realise they can "take advantage" of Wurm's developer made content to their own advantage. * See how unique hunts are managed, mostly its the same few people killing everything. That's a monopoly. *

 

Even organizing an Impalong is a long dedicated process with a lot of work invested from players, but not very rewarding, other than the emotional factor.

 

What I am getting at, is that perhaps it's time to get some more developer content. I know wurm is advertised as the "ultimate sandbox" but at the same time it also breaks it, because it either a ) Doesn't fully deliver on the promise. It is a sandbox, but also a very empty one in the end. or b ) It needs to reign in the sandbox mentality and give us some more things to do that are actually just fun.

 

Dungeons would be a cool addition to the game. I would love to explore a RNG dungeon (through a portal perhaps?) with a group of mates (max 5 players? 10 ? 15?) fighting trolls, goblins, evading traps, lockpicking some gates for loot, running low on cotton, supplies, being shot at by turrets, etc. And at the end to fight a mini-dragon or something that would have the decency to drop some scales, or perhaps a rare bone or somesuch, not too much but not too little either, else the dungeon is pointless. To prevent overfarming you can always set a reset timer per player. Maybe one every 5 days, depending on the difficulty.

 

Hell I'd make a few progression dungeons either based on FS. You're a noob with 20 FS ? Here's a cave of goblins you can clear. Reward ? Rare woa mallet tied only to your character (non-tradeable, but can be discarded if you want) so you can build faster, etc. Or perhaps an affinity.

 

Wurm's economy has one major issue : Silvers = RL money.   In other games, you are strictly prohibited to sell ingame currency with money. Old games used to have a mentality of not allowing players to purchase in game currency with money (it's always overpowered in the end, even if it is just 1% of people) , such as WoW (although that has changed sadly in retail) where you weren't allowed to buy gold with money. It was a bannable offence. If you wanted in game currency, you had to earn it.

 

We don't have to get rid of silvers but I would propose introducing a secondary currency players can earn and trade only in game. That currency would not be linked to the game shop, aka you can't buy it with silvers. It would also be non-tradeable, aka you can't trade it with other players. You earn it, and that's final. Call it Wurm Talons, if you want. You can use it to buy certain items from traders in game, using only that currency (not silvers). You can earn them from dungeons, you can earn them from small quests, etc.

 

Wurm simply needs more fun activities that have a low barrier of entry to new people. In RL terms it took me months (and honestly I'm not sure that was the sane approach) to make a deed, get to 70 FS, and build a decent home for myself, with horses, a farm, the whole work. That was also due to having low skills and everything took a long time to make.

 

I think if Wurm is to survive, it needs to adapt its mentality to allow people for a few more activities that are just fun and not grinds, or projects or somesuch.

 

My two cents. Very few things in game now require actual player cooperation. It feels like WoW retail where no one talks to each other. People just play mindlessly. It used to be that the game was hard and that required people helping each other a lot. Now it seems like everyone can handle themselves but no one really needs to interact too much with others.

 

Make a few dungeons or whatever fun events you can for players, get em talking again, planning and see what happens. That would be my suggestion. Something fun apart from grinding , building or sailing for hours.

 

I don't see Wurm surviving for long, not even on steam if it doesn't change some core mechanics and vestigial mentalities. If i were to sum up everything it would be with this :

 

Many things take way too long. It just isn't enough fun as a reward.

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2 hours ago, elentari said:

What I am getting at, is that perhaps it's time to get some more developer content. I know wurm is advertised as the "ultimate sandbox" but at the same time it also breaks it, because it either a ) Doesn't fully deliver on the promise. It is a sandbox, but also a very empty one in the end. or b ) It needs to reign in the sandbox mentality and give us some more things to do that are actually just fun.

Wurm is a sandbox game and as such will always be a niche for those who like to create their own content. 

 

I don't think we'll be shifting towards themepark anytime soon, but think of Rifts and Jackal as addressing the desire you have, I saw 30 people sitting around a table toasting each other before taking on the Jackal stronghold, cooperation is there! 

 

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Wurm is a sandbox game and as such will always be a niche for those who like to create their own content. 

 

I don't think we'll be shifting towards themepark anytime soon, but think of Rifts and Jackal as addressing the desire you have, I saw 30 people sitting around a table toasting each other before taking on the Jackal stronghold, cooperation is there! 

 

The first time, yes. But after the reset? Would you still see that many players entering Jackal to get their skills up from nothing to something so they could eventually conquer the stronghold? Just to do it again 6 months later. and 6 months after that.

I'm playing WO to have fun. Grinding my char up at Jackal to the point it's now at a freedom server isn't my idea of "fun". Perhaps it's for others, but after it gets repeative, I doubt they'll visit Jackal this time of the year in 2022. 

 

 

Rifts are a partial failure too, but somehow the staff doesn't - or won't? - realize that.

 

At first rifts it was a community event. Players got together, set up a save zone with at least a Fo altar and occasionally more things, including forges.

Only disadvantage; out of the 40 "particiapents" there were 15 alts to loot the wood and crystals as soon as the last heart was sacced.

So it got changed to the point that players get rewards, based upon level of participation. Good idea, except; thàt one failed too.

 

Nowadays ppl arrive at the rift zone 5 minutes before it opens, fight the creatures, ignore the warmaster because it's harder to kill as a Dragon with a grumpy mood and wait for 1-2 players to sac the last batch of hearts; while the rest already stands with pickaxe or hatchet near the trees and rocks to harvest resources as fast as possible.

Meaning the ones doing the saccing have to have an alt nearby, otherwise they miss out on the stuff as parts are even gone before they're able to return from the saccing altar.

The only other reason players are doing rifts: the Journal goal. So  they check the various servers - or niarja - wait for a rift to open, fight the monsters until it's closed and leave again.

I'm curious, Retrograde; is that what you call "fun"?

 

What I call "fun" is exploring a server, entering an old mine and encountering all kinds of monsters in there; while hoping I'm able to find some nice loot - being it items or a nice vein - in there. It's already possible as I and many others have done such things at old mines from abandoned deeds.

I'm aware staff members are able to spawn monsters. So why not simply create some sort of dungeon, have a GM spawn the monsters in there and have players kill those to get to a chest or something else with a nice item or items in it. Make sure the items are defended by a boss monster; i.e. Champ goblin for low FS players, Kyklops, drake or dragon for high FS players.

Players would love the exploring, would love to find the items and would love to gain some skills in both FS as their used weapons.

You don't even have to have such events every day; just set a skill limit at certain days and you can use the same dungeon for the different levels. And in case it's too much presure at GM's; create the role of Dungeon Master; who're running the show.

 

I'm pretty sure that it won't turn Wurm into a themepark, but it sure as hell would make the game a bit more attractive to players who've grown up with Skyrim, World of Warcraft, Elderscrolls online and those kind of games.

 

Thorin :) 

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After the latest PR and player communication disaster, we can add another topic what is wrong: transparency, continuity and reliability of the company are sadly lacking. Decisions with wide ranging consequences forced down the throat of the playerbase. Much trust and confidence if still having been there destroyed or at least seriously shaken.

 

Until these announcements, another full year sub was certain to me. Now, I am reconsidering, maybe spending some of my silvers month by month waiting whether Wurm Online will survive the steam plans.

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On 1/11/2020 at 7:40 PM, Ekcin said:

After the latest PR and player communication disaster, we can add another topic what is wrong: transparency, continuity and reliability of the company are sadly lacking. Decisions with wide ranging consequences forced down the throat of the playerbase. Much trust and confidence if still having been there destroyed or at least seriously shaken.

 

Until these announcements, another full year sub was certain to me. Now, I am reconsidering, maybe spending some of my silvers month by month waiting whether Wurm Online will survive the steam plans.

 

I really wouldn't call this a PR/Communication Disaster.  It roughly went like this over the years:


Some Players:  "Player gods are broken, please get rid of them."
Other Players:  "No, we got used to them; it's unfair that we can't access all content with a main and an alt."
Devs:  "Ok, we are not removing player gods; they are broken but a lot of players would be angry if we did.  We want to keep our player base happy, and surely a little bit of imbalance can't break too much"
Some Players:  "Wow, the devs never listen to us."


<Time passes, most of the player base leave, wurm is essentially planning a relaunch>

Devs:  "Actually, you guys were right.  We're going to remove player gods because our attempts to balance them just have not worked and we REALLY don't want that stuff being shown to the new audience."
Other Players:  "Wow, the devs never listen to us."

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You are completely missing the point. The question is not about removal or non removal which seems to have religious importance for you. I could and can live with either.The question is how to deal with customers.

 

A decision is ok, and it is the company and its dev team making it. But where it affects customers it should not be slammed in their face. When that went over years it could be announced and done over months. That would have been fair and have left time to reconsider and adjust details. As it looks now the devs don't even have a clue about how to readjust the spells of template gods.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

You are completely missing the point.

Maybe I have.

 

From what I can see is you're arguing that there should have been player input before this decision was made, maybe an attempt to balance player gods before outright removing them?  Indeed, in all choices that negatively impact the experience of any group of player, there should be dialogue?

 

Is that correct?

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16 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Indeed, in all choices that negatively impact the experience of any group of player, there should be dialogue?

 

Is that correct?

 

Time and circumstance has known this never to be the case.  Wurm has seen an entire kingdom disband in days due to the sudden change in karma teleportation.   You want player input?  Sure, that's how 3/4 of another kingdom got wrongfully banned last year.   Dialogue?  Oh, that requires communicating on a forum where posts are selectively edited by people other than forum mods these days.

 

And more on topic, my issue is meta changes in general, and it is not a recent gripe.  Constant and unnecessary meddling with game mechanics that worked just fine the way they were!  Planter boxes implemented 2 weeks before an announced vegetable nerf is but one example of many.

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The steam version will here be here soon™️

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

Maybe I have.

From what I can see is you're arguing that there should have been player input before this decision was made, maybe an attempt to balance player gods before outright removing them?  Indeed, in all choices that negatively impact the experience of any group of player, there should be dialogue?

Is that correct?

 

Player input would have been helpful, demonstrating (or at least pretending) that the playerbase - paying customers -  is taken serious. But: I would not have demanded endless discussion. It would have been fully ok to announce: In the course of general overhaul before steam release we plan to remove the player gods and revert to the template deities. The changes will be implemented, say next quarter.

Similar with vegs. Most would of course stay unhappy, but announcing to reduce veg favour by 40 to 60% in order to encourage alternative favour sources would at least have made sure in advance what is intended, and not only after violent protests and boring questions.

 

There would of course also have been a discussion, also complaints and polemics, but also valuable ideas maybe. And at least the customers would have been treated as partners, not subjects.

 

This is called communication. Somehow it seems to me that this is an alien term to the company.

Edited by Ekcin
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