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What Is Wrong With Wurm?

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

There's a lot. 

Affinity complaints led to the new affinity systems

Requests for libila to be added on freedom were fulfilled. 

A ton of things balanced, adjusted or outright crapped before launch because of feedback have happened too

Would it be helpful to add an "implemented" tag on suggestions that wind up in the game? And what about scenarios where something LIKE that is implemented? (i.e. requests to remove all book decay being implemented as no page decay)

 

Make a list and keep it up to date so we can refer to it in these threads. These features come slowly and over time so it's easy to forget what was added half a year ago and just take it for granted now, and of course all the things we wanted last week are still not implemented this week because stuff doesn't just come to fruition in a week. An overview might put things in much better perspective.

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3 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

 

Make a list and keep it up to date so we can refer to it in these threads. These features come slowly and over time so it's easy to forget what was added half a year ago and just take it for granted now, and of course all the things we wanted last week are still not implemented this week because stuff doesn't just come to fruition in a week. An overview might put things in much better perspective.

We do keep a full list of patch notes on the wiki

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2019

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2018

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2017

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Question question retro "UI (showcased in several VI's)" which vi showcases that? I am probably blind and not seeing it unless it is just the disappearing bars(i hate it) on the stamina and such section and the rescaling of otherwise previously static windows if so then i have seen those but if not is there more teased that im unaware off?

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The stronghold doesn't open for a few more days. Most beacons are found. 

 

It's been good but now it's a waiting game. 

 

3 hours ago, wipeout said:

Sorry but this sounds like an excuse its been a steady low player count since the first time skill transfer was added heck a week before that actually from 1 day to the next we saw a pop drop from 200+ to 50 average after skill transfer down to 10-15 sometimes a bit more but most of the time its low as hell

^ He sumed it up pretty nicely here. If you are expecting the Stronghold to bring in massive amounts of people, then why not just slap Strongholds on current servers and call it a day? No, a single event does not determine the success of the server. Jackal is dead as evidenced by no one living there anymore. Its just as active as Epic or Chaos. 

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1 minute ago, Angelklaine said:

 

^ He sumed it up pretty nicely here. If you are expecting the Stronghold to bring in massive amounts of people, then why not just slap Strongholds on current servers and call it a day? No, a single event does not determine the success of the server. Jackal is dead as evidenced by no one living there anymore. Its just as active as Epic or Chaos. 

its called rift but with out the buildings (?)

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

In your dismissal of it you overlooked the awesome group of people who are having the time of their lives on it because it provides PvE incentives to work together against common enemies and achieve goals.

 

they are quite easily overlooked after all, since they are dwarfed even by the current playerbase left on other servers...

 

is this your standard? Are you happy with serving less than 20 people, when the server started out at almost, if not more than 200?

 

Jesus Christ, I'm calling Cameron now, hope he's up for a diving trip.

 

If the staff is complacent with such a result, you truly suck out any hope of us that this game will ever realize any of its potential.

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It's more about there being clear and obvious positives to it all amidst the issues. 

 

Was Jackal round 1 a raging success? No, it had it's issues. 

 

Did it have some positive points we can build on with feedback from the people who played? Absolutely. And we will. 

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

It's more about there being clear and obvious positives to it all amidst the issues. 

 

Was Jackal round 1 a raging success? No, it had it's issues. 

 

Did it have some positive points we can build on with feedback from the people who played? Absolutely. And we will. 

I don't doubt everyone learned from it, that's a given. But the point is we are not guinea pigs to provide feedback for the developers. We are the consumers of what your efforts provide. 

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15 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I don't doubt everyone learned from it, that's a given. But the point is we are not guinea pigs to provide feedback for the developers. We are the consumers of what your efforts provide. 

Wurm itself is a game that has been shaped by player feedback for 16 years. This isn't about being guinea pigs for feedback, this is the standard back and forth of discussion, development and feedback. 

 

Feedback from everything from Archaeology to multi story housing, suggestions and all aspects of the game allow us to adjust it and change it. You tell us when things don't work and where possible we adjust it*. 

 

The issue with Jackal is changing it mid run wasn't possible. We'll be taking time to work on it based on all the feedback before round 2. 

 

*Dont @ me about fishing, I'm still trying. 

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50 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Wurm itself is a game that has been shaped by player feedback for 16 years. This isn't about being guinea pigs for feedback, this is the standard back and forth of discussion, development and feedback. 

 

Feedback from everything from Archaeology to multi story housing, suggestions and all aspects of the game allow us to adjust it and change it. You tell us when things don't work and where possible we adjust it*. 

 

The issue with Jackal is changing it mid run wasn't possible. We'll be taking time to work on it based on all the feedback before round 2. 

 

*Dont @ me about fishing, I'm still trying. 

If its made clear with the next start that any major changes happen only at the start of new runs(just like peo handles its content) then it will be a lot easier to swallow content that is wrong as we can give advice and look forward to next round being better but you really only have 1 chance of pulling that off if next round is plagued with just as many weird and silly issues at the start no one will even bother for round 3 so make the start of 2 count and do it right and it will do wonders as i stated before wurm is slow and jackal provides this official way of playing in a way faster playstyle where its more round based and this will appeal to a new group that isnt really around right now just yet so i hope that it will go right with 2 and more content is added ❤️

also @Retrogradefishing related stuff when? yes i had to ;)❤️

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A lot is wrong and its too late to save it.

 

Not even the players know what they want, its been tried already. (or what will work)

Edited by Oreo

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4 minutes ago, Oreo said:

A lot is wrong and its too late to save it.

 

Not even the players know what they want, its been tried already.

 

I think a lot of it comes down to implementation.

 

Let's take the priest update; an update that was to balance priests into the game. 

 

It was a nice update; it added one new useful spell, improved priest QoL, and generally tried to create balance.

 

However, it ended up creating a new PvP meta, nerfed some spells into the ground, and failed to provide PvE balance.

 

It needed a lot more tweaking (I can now build a house, as long as I don't use ANY wood, sounds right yeah?), however we got what we were given.  Enough to stop most complaints (QoL was better), but not enough to address them (player gods are still a cancer to balance, and I still need to log an alt on to cut down a tree on my lawn).

 

This is a pattern with all updates; see rift jewellery (took forever to fix) and various "PvP fixes".

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Feedback from everything from Archaeology to multi story housing, suggestions and all aspects of the game allow us to adjust it and change it. You tell us when things don't work and where possible we adjust it*. 

@RetrogradePriest's journal goal for rites still suck almost the same from beginning especially for BL gods. And yet you still keep blind eye and get into defensive mode everytime it's mentioned stubornly defending your vision of it which is totaly out of place. When are you going to realise that goal is not about player cooperation, its about spamming alts, praying like crazy and doing goal with your 2 100 faith batteries which you used for your sermon party in hope someone else doesn't snipe you. You can't force cooperation on people, nor you can put powerfull +5 spellpower gap for people that dont want or don't have time for cooperation... How many casts was there for BL since update? How many community organized events and how many solo actions or small group actions on other goods? Hmm?

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This thread is just depressing.  The same people complaining about being ignored when they suggest stuff, then turning around and complaining about being guinea pigs.  Pace of change is slow, but it's there - wurm now is so much better than it was when I started, and we take stuff for granted.

 

My favourite thing that started out on the suggestions forum and got implemented is the dragging between bsbs - used to have to click and drag, click and drag, now it works like levelling, and is brilliant.  And that came from a player suggestion.

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

Yeah but that has lots of other stuff in. If you can show a big list of just player suggested stuff that was implemented, when someone says player suggested stuff never gets implemented, that would move the discussion on to the next step quite easily.

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1 hour ago, Wonka said:

The same people complaining about being ignored when they suggest stuff, then turning around and complaining about being guinea pigs.

 

Except there's no "turning" involved. Because we get half baked stuff that noone asks for while simultaneously having ideas we do like shot down or ignored.

 

Your example is a great one for why they should listen to feedback as Retro claims they do, but we get little more than reassurances and apologia, none of which encourages hope for CCAB not derailing further into the strange visions of gameplay they have pursued the past months.

Edited by Flubb

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How to Make Everyone Happy: A Guide

 

Step 1: Use The Gallows to explain why players are banned. So many topics involve people discussing bans. Earlier this year, The Gallows sub-forum was created to provide transparency about moderation actions taken against player accounts. In the whole year, only four threads have been posted. Are these the only bans that occurred for the entire year? Even in the topics posted, the details are extremely sparse. No evidence is provided and nothing aside from "these people were banned and here's why." I was hoping for something a bit more thorough where a statement would be made. Take control of the narrative in these situations and provide your viewpoint and tangible evidence! This would be a good step towards satisfying the players who are upset with how these bans were handled, as well as reassure those who don't care that the game is being properly moderated. It's a win-win and it baffles me why you wouldn't use the position of authority to explain why actions were taken.

 

Step 2: Stop dodging around tough questions and just answer them flat. Additionally, learn to actually admit fault when there is some. You'll never persuade someone that your viewpoint is correct if all you're doing is dodging each point after point. It's a miserable tactic that just leads to endless fighting (which is why this thread is 5 pages long). So enough with quoting someone and pointing out minor inaccuracies. Tackle the big picture! What's after Steam? What happened to the old projects that were mentioned in previous roadmaps? Are there going to be adjustments to systems that were released and were not fully successful? Make a nice, clear statement that tackles all of the big picture problems!

 

It's also important to know when to take a knee. I'll start for you - the priest rework was a failure. It didn't meet the markers it set out for. It turned PvP into a spellflinging contest and needed significant adjustments to PvE balance, including some spells that were simply not useful. Sure, it can be argued that many of the goals for the priest rework was met. Casting combat spells is useful again. Healing exploitation was fixed, as well as significantly shaking up the healing-centric PvP meta that existed. There's significant improvements to QoL for enchanting and similar. But all of that good comes with the bad. For PvP, it felt like non-priests were useless. For PvE, healing in rifts was significantly nerfed and made doing rifts with few players significantly harder. Jewelry enchants were annoying to create for PvP purposes.

 

If there's one regret I have from leaving the team, it's that I wasn't able to refine the priest system after significant feedback came through. Changes of that scale aren't going to come out perfect on the first try. It saddened me greatly that most of the work I did ended up being mostly abandoned, with just a few nerfs at the combat spells and some minor bug fixes thrown at it.

 

However, time and time again after revisiting the forums every now and then, I'm reminded why I left. All of the reasons I outlined are still an issue.

  • Jackal was essentially designed in secret and launched without public testing. The concerns I had for Jackal came true almost completely. People who wanted a hunting server didn't find Jackal satisfying, while new players had to jump through hoops to get there.
  • Moderation actions are still being taken without properly informing the player why. For the most part, they're not even bad moderation actions. It's just the players not knowing why - that's the issue - and that remains the case today.

The common theme here is communication. Improve the communication to the players. You'll have less questions to answer, and they'll have less anxiety about the future of the game.

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1 hour ago, Wonka said:

This thread is just depressing.  The same people complaining about being ignored when they suggest stuff, then turning around and complaining about being guinea pigs.  Pace of change is slow, but it's there - wurm now is so much better than it was when I started, and we take stuff for granted.

 

My favourite thing that started out on the suggestions forum and got implemented is the dragging between bsbs - used to have to click and drag, click and drag, now it works like levelling, and is brilliant.  And that came from a player suggestion.

 

I can get behind your post completely if we leave that struck-through bit out. With it in, it reads as though you are conflating various people's specific grievances into a single generic franken-grievance and at the same time suggesting a false dichotomy: that either the game's development / community involvement is A-OK or it's off the rails. The fact is, some changes deserve praise while others (or the lack thereof) disappoint. Strengths and weaknesses are not mutually exclusive, and both need attention for growth to happen. And to be fair, the thread is titled 'What is Wrong with Wurm' so it was never going to be full of sunshine and roses. 

 

All that being said, a separate thread focusing on positive feedback might be warranted. People have a tendency to tune us out or double down on their position when confronted with too much criticism, and this could quite possibly be contributing to the obvious communication issues.

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We have seen three attempts (Epic, Challenge and Jackal) of making a server/cluster with special rules.

Epic had some success years ago, but it is gone now as far as I can see.

Challenge died very quickly.

Jackal saw some pupularity in the beginning but is now slowly fading. I doubt that a restart will see the same player surge as it had on day one.

 

I understand that Steam will get its own server which will be separate from the rest to start with so the noobs dont riot on the core servers (is that really a problem with deeds and permissions?)

But I hope the devs have learned from this and will focus their effort on the core cluster in the future.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sindusk said:

It's also important to know when to take a knee. I'll start for you - the priest rework was a failure. It didn't meet the markers it set out for. It turned PvP into a spellflinging contest and needed significant adjustments to PvE balance, including some spells that were simply not useful. Sure, it can be argued that many of the goals for the priest rework was met. Casting combat spells is useful again. Healing exploitation was fixed, as well as significantly shaking up the healing-centric PvP meta that existed. There's significant improvements to QoL for enchanting and similar. But all of that good comes with the bad. For PvP, it felt like non-priests were useless. For PvE, healing in rifts was significantly nerfed and made doing rifts with few players significantly harder. Jewelry enchants were annoying to create for PvP purposes.

 

If there's one regret I have from leaving the team, it's that I wasn't able to refine the priest system after significant feedback came through. Changes of that scale aren't going to come out perfect on the first try. It saddened me greatly that most of the work I did ended up being mostly abandoned, with just a few nerfs at the combat spells and some minor bug fixes thrown at it.

 

It may not have worked but (good or bad) it's why I'm still here.  It was good to see one dev actually listening to the gripes so many had offered, and actually trying to fix them.  Your work may not have been perfected, but it was appreciated.

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One thing that's wrong with Wurm that hasn't been mentioned is the behaviour of the community. Yes, that's right, it's OUR behaviour in Wurm that's wrong and that's one of the reasons people are leaving. Because they're fed up with how some players treat certain events, how some players were protected by (former) staff members and that certain players still try to monopolize some things.

I'll post a list of examples, some just related to my homeserver, Xanadu, some are most likely happening at all servers.

 

1) Rifts:

When rifts were introduced, they were consider as player events where a large group of players at a server gathered, build a protective area, including one or more altars dedicated to several Deity's (but Fo was always one of those), occasional imping and when the rift opened a group of 50+ players tried to shut it down.

It didn't take long before some players realized that they could benefit from this by having alts nearby, making it a lot easier to harvest the resources the moment the last heart was sacced. As a counter reaction, it was decided to have players get a reward straight into their inventory, as well as some rift materials to avoid that kind of abuse.

 

Nowadays we have players gathering near the rift area ample minutes before it opens, kill enough monsters to get the hearts for saccing and while one fool player still sacs the last hearts, the rest is already waiting with their axes and pickaxes raised to loot for rift mats as fast as they can, before everyone rushes off to their deed with their earned treasures.

Gone are the days of having a player event; nowadays it has become a treasure hunt to gather as many mats as fast as  you can, while also trying to get as many Rift points as possible.

 

2) Markets:

 

At Xan we got a certain group of players who had the idea to set up markets near every starter  towns the server has.

Personally, I think the idea was quite a good one. Having one market near a starter town would give new players an opportunity to buy better equipment.

However, where things went wrong is that one player owning many of those deeds, decided to drop 3-4 of his own merchants at the markets; making it quite hard for other players to compete.

So what we got now is one merchant of player A selling tools, one merchant of player A selling weapons, one merchant of player A selling armour and one merchant of player A selling enchanted items and one merchant of player B selling a bit of everything. Eventually resulting at player B removing his merchant, because he won't make a profit at all.

 

While all of that happened, one of the players of that specific group decided to drop a market deed basically at the doorstep of another player. When being asked about moving the deed, the comment "deed it or loose it" was used, that specific player got some protection of a (at the time) staff member, resulting in the player having access to the deed being lost, leaving the game. Taking quite some players from her alliance wit her.

At the same time, a highway was messed up near another starter town - without informing or asking the builders about it - road signs were placed INSIDE! startertown borders; something you can't do as a regular player; meaning a staff member - my guess;  the same former one that protected the player in the previous mentioned case - has given a regular player rights that player never should have gotten in the first place.

 

And to conclude things, not that long ago, the same player decided to change a piece of highway at Newspring; without asking ANYONE!! living at that island if they would mind if he did that. And once again, using the same phrase: "deed it or loose it".

 

3) Prices of goods:

 

With the amount of more skilled players increasing over time, the market slowly got flooded with higher ql items. Since it's always a matter of offer and demand when it comes to selling things, prices began to drop to make sure a player was able to sell what he made.

The result is known; items costing 2-3 silver three years ago are being sold for 0.75 - 1 silver nowadays.

When I began playing, a 70ql Knarr would cost a player 8S; an 80ql Knar would sell for 9S and a 90ql Knarr would sell for 10-11S.

Not long ago, I saw a 90ql Knarr with either volume or speed rune and 43 Large crates being offered for the same 8S that would get you a 70ql ship four years ago.

The reason is what I mentioned before, more and more players getting higher skills and the only way to compete with that is to offer better items.

However, better items also have less decay, making it less useful to imp them or to sell new ones. Which results in more items flooding the market, resulting in a drop of prices to sell some, which results in higher items being sold etc.

 

4) Uniques and private hunting groups:

Just like rifts, uniques are meant to be hunted down and killed as a community event. However, ever since I began playing this game four years ago, there have been private hunting groups who've been looking for, penning and killing uniques, after which they sold the blood / bones / hides / scale if they liked or used parts to either create armoud or potions which were sold.

The "excuse" I heard for doing that is that the ones being part of a hunting group have to make enough money to cover the cost of the alts and the deeds used to find and pen the uniques.

 

However, when it comes to deeding for a certain purpose, those building highway tunnels are having costs too. And unlike deeds set up for an unique slaying which often are only "active" for a few weeks, a tunnel project may take months; meaning the deed costs are significant more.

Yet, the moment a player building a highway tunnel would set up something like a toll-booth over the highway, charging everyone who wants to us the tunnel 25c to cover the 6S that player spend to maintain a deed, quite some players wouldn't like that.

But at the same time it's tolerated when a private hunting group is doing that and selling the items they got at high prizes, as their only competition is another private hunting group.

 

 

5) Impalongs:

 

5a) I won't spend much time at this, but has anyone noticed that we've had impalongs organized by the same persons for the past years now? When something like that happens, at some point no-one will organize an impalong, as we all know there's going to be one at "X specific date at Y specific deed / server".

 

5b) On top of that, the focus has changed from imping items for free with some games as minor entertainment, to major entertainment and arena fights and imping only done by those who aren't interested in fun and games; or those not being able to be online when the fun and games are happening.

The result of that is that players are beginning to be left out and eventually decide they may as well leave the game completely. After all, why stick around in a game where you're considered a lesser part of the community, simply because you're living at another continent?

 

 

Bottom line,

 

While Wurm was a community driven game when some of us - and myself included - began playing, it's more and more becomming a game for a bunch of egocentric players who don't give a damn about others, as long as they're having a good time. Resulting in those who are willing to do things for the community either feel neglected, ignored or simply deciding to leave the game.

And  those players who're still prepared to do community things, are more and more keeping quiet about it and / or deciding it's not worth their time, money and effort anymore. Usually resulting in partially finished projects which are no good to anyone.

 

 

Thorin :)

 

 

Edited by Thorinoakshield
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43 minutes ago, Thorinoakshield said:

One thing that's wrong with Wurm that hasn't been mentioned is the behaviour of the community. Yes, that's right, it's OUR behaviour in Wurm that's wrong and that's one of the reasons people are leaving. Because they're fed up with how some players treat certain events, how some players were protected by (former) staff members and that certain players still try to monopolize some things.

I'll post a list of examples, some just related to my homeserver, Xanadu, some are most likely happening at all servers.

 

1) Rifts:

When rifts were introduced, they were consider as player events where a large group of players at a server gathered, build a protective area, including one or more altars dedicated to several Deity's (but Fo was always one of those), occasional imping and when the rift opened a group of 50+ players tried to shut it down.

It didn't take long before some players realized that they could benefit from this by having alts nearby, making it a lot easier to harvest the resources the moment the last heart was sacced. As a counter reaction, it was decided to have players get a reward straight into their inventory, as well as some rift materials to avoid that kind of abuse.

 

Nowadays we have players gathering near the rift area ample minutes before it opens, kill enough monsters to get the hearts for saccing and while one fool player still sacs the last hearts, the rest is already waiting with their axes and pickaxes raised to loot for rift mats as fast as they can, before everyone rushes off to their deed with their earned treasures.

Gone are the days of having a player event; nowadays it has become a treasure hunt to gather as many mats as fast as  you can, while also trying to get as many Rift points as possible.

 

2) Markets:

 

At Xan we got a certain group of players who had the idea to set up markets near every starter  towns the server has.

Personally, I think the idea was quite a good one. Having one market near a starter town would give new players an opportunity to buy better equipment.

However, where things went wrong is that one player owning many of those deeds, decided to drop 3-4 of his own merchants at the markets; making it quite hard for other players to compete.

So what we got now is one merchant of player A selling tools, one merchant of player A selling weapons, one merchant of player A selling armour and one merchant of player A selling enchanted items and one merchant of player B selling a bit of everything. Eventually resulting at player B removing his merchant, because he won't make a profit at all.

 

While all of that happened, one of the players of that specific group decided to drop a market deed basically at the doorstep of another player. When being asked about moving the deed, the comment "deed it or loose it" was used, that specific player got some protection of a (at the time) staff member, resulting in the player having access to the deed being lost, leaving the game. Taking quite some players from her alliance wit her.

At the same time, a highway was messed up near another starter town - without informing or asking the builders about it - road signs were placed INSIDE! startertown borders; something you can't do as a regular player; meaning a staff member - my guess;  the same former one that protected the player in the previous mentioned case - has given a regular player rights that player never should have gotten in the first place.

 

And to conclude things, not that long ago, the same player decided to change a piece of highway at Newspring; without asking ANYONE!! living at that island if they would mind if he did that. And once again, using the same phrase: "deed it or loose it".

 

3) Prices of goods:

 

With the amount of more skilled players increasing over time, the market slowly got flooded with higher ql items. Since it's always a matter of offer and demand when it comes to selling things, prices began to drop to make sure a player was able to sell what he made.

The result is known; items costing 2-3 silver three years ago are being sold for 0.75 - 1 silver nowadays.

When I began playing, a 70ql Knarr would cost a player 8S; an 80ql Knar would sell for 9S and a 90ql Knarr would sell for 10-11S.

Not long ago, I saw a 90ql Knarr with either volume or speed rune and 43 Large crates being offered for the same 8S that would get you a 70ql ship four years ago.

The reason is what I mentioned before, more and more players getting higher skills and the only way to compete with that is to offer better items.

However, better items also have less decay, making it less useful to imp them or to sell new ones. Which results in more items flooding the market, resulting in a drop of prices to sell some, which results in higher items being sold etc.

 

4) Uniques and private hunting groups:

Just like rifts, uniques are meant to be hunted down and killed as a community event. However, ever since I began playing this game four years ago, there have been private hunting groups who've been looking for, penning and killing uniques, after which they sold the blood / bones / hides / scale if they liked or used parts to either create armoud or potions which were sold.

The "excuse" I heard for doing that is that the ones being part of a hunting group have to make enough money to cover the cost of the alts and the deeds used to find and pen the uniques.

 

However, when it comes to deeding for a certain purpose, those building highway tunnels are having costs too. And unlike deeds set up for an unique slaying which often are only "active" for a few weeks, a tunnel project may take months; meaning the deed costs are significant more.

Yet, the moment a player building a highway tunnel would set up something like a toll-booth over the highway, charging everyone who wants to us the tunnel 25c to cover the 6S that player spend to maintain a deed, quite some players wouldn't like that.

But at the same time it's tolerated when a private hunting group is doing that and selling the items they got at high prizes, as their only competition is another private hunting group.

 

 

5) Impalongs:

 

5a) I won't spend much time at this, but has anyone noticed that we've had impalongs organized by the same persons for the past years now? When something like that happens, at some point no-one will organize an impalong, as we all know there's going to be one at "X specific date at Y specific deed / server".

 

5b) On top of that, the focus has changed from imping items for free with some games as minor entertainment, to major entertainment and arena fights and imping only done by those who aren't interested in fun and games; or those not being able to be online when the fun and games are happening.

The result of that is that players are beginning to be left out and eventually decide they may as well leave the game completely. After all, why stick around in a game where you're considered a lesser part of the community, simply because you're living at another continent?

 

 

Bottom line,

 

While Wurm was a community driven game when some of us - and myself included - began playing, it's more and more becomming a game for a bunch of egocentric players who don't give a damn about others, as long as they're having a good time. Resulting in those who are willing to do things for the community either feel neglected, ignored or simply deciding to leave the game.

And  those players who're still prepared to do community things, are more and more keeping quiet about it and / or deciding it's not worth their time, money and effort anymore. Usually resulting in partially finished projects which are no good to anyone.

 

 

Thorin :)

 

 

If the defense is that the fault with the game is all because of the players, and it's all the players that have the problem with the game.... the problem isnt with the players. Its with the game.

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44 minutes ago, Thorinoakshield said:

One thing that's wrong with Wurm that hasn't been mentioned is the behaviour of the community. Yes, that's right, it's OUR behaviour in Wurm that's wrong and that's one of the reasons people are leaving. Because they're fed up with how some players treat certain events, how some players were protected by (former) staff members and that certain players still try to monopolize some things.

I'll post a list of examples, some just related to my homeserver, Xanadu, some are most likely happening at all servers.

 

1) Rifts:

When rifts were introduced, they were consider as player events where a large group of players at a server gathered, build a protective area, including one or more altars dedicated to several Deity's (but Fo was always one of those), occasional imping and when the rift opened a group of 50+ players tried to shut it down.

It didn't take long before some players realized that they could benefit from this by having alts nearby, making it a lot easier to harvest the resources the moment the last heart was sacced. As a counter reaction, it was decided to have players get a reward straight into their inventory, as well as some rift materials to avoid that kind of abuse.

 

Nowadays we have players gathering near the rift area ample minutes before it opens, kill enough monsters to get the hearts for saccing and while one fool player still sacs the last hearts, the rest is already waiting with their axes and pickaxes raised to loot for rift mats as fast as they can, before everyone rushes off to their deed with their earned treasures.

Gone are the days of having a player event; nowadays it has become a treasure hunt to gather as many mats as fast as  you can, while also trying to get as many Rift points as possible.

 

2) Markets:

 

At Xan we got a certain group of players who had the idea to set up markets near every starter  towns the server has.

Personally, I think the idea was quite a good one. Having one market near a starter town would give new players an opportunity to buy better equipment.

However, where things went wrong is that one player owning many of those deeds, decided to drop 3-4 of his own merchants at the markets; making it quite hard for other players to compete.

So what we got now is one merchant of player A selling tools, one merchant of player A selling weapons, one merchant of player A selling armour and one merchant of player A selling enchanted items and one merchant of player B selling a bit of everything. Eventually resulting at player B removing his merchant, because he won't make a profit at all.

 

While all of that happened, one of the players of that specific group decided to drop a market deed basically at the doorstep of another player. When being asked about moving the deed, the comment "deed it or loose it" was used, that specific player got some protection of a (at the time) staff member, resulting in the player having access to the deed being lost, leaving the game. Taking quite some players from her alliance wit her.

At the same time, a highway was messed up near another starter town - without informing or asking the builders about it - road signs were placed INSIDE! startertown borders; something you can't do as a regular player; meaning a staff member - my guess;  the same former one that protected the player in the previous mentioned case - has given a regular player rights that player never should have gotten in the first place.

 

And to conclude things, not that long ago, the same player decided to change a piece of highway at Newspring; without asking ANYONE!! living at that island if they would mind if he did that. And once again, using the same phrase: "deed it or loose it".

 

3) Prices of goods:

 

With the amount of more skilled players increasing over time, the market slowly got flooded with higher ql items. Since it's always a matter of offer and demand when it comes to selling things, prices began to drop to make sure a player was able to sell what he made.

The result is known; items costing 2-3 silver three years ago are being sold for 0.75 - 1 silver nowadays.

When I began playing, a 70ql Knarr would cost a player 8S; an 80ql Knar would sell for 9S and a 90ql Knarr would sell for 10-11S.

Not long ago, I saw a 90ql Knarr with either volume or speed rune and 43 Large crates being offered for the same 8S that would get you a 70ql ship four years ago.

The reason is what I mentioned before, more and more players getting higher skills and the only way to compete with that is to offer better items.

However, better items also have less decay, making it less useful to imp them or to sell new ones. Which results in more items flooding the market, resulting in a drop of prices to sell some, which results in higher items being sold etc.

 

4) Uniques and private hunting groups:

Just like rifts, uniques are meant to be hunted down and killed as a community event. However, ever since I began playing this game four years ago, there have been private hunting groups who've been looking for, penning and killing uniques, after which they sold the blood / bones / hides / scale if they liked or used parts to either create armoud or potions which were sold.

The "excuse" I heard for doing that is that the ones being part of a hunting group have to make enough money to cover the cost of the alts and the deeds used to find and pen the uniques.

 

However, when it comes to deeding for a certain purpose, those building highway tunnels are having costs too. And unlike deeds set up for an unique slaying which often are only "active" for a few weeks, a tunnel project may take months; meaning the deed costs are significant more.

Yet, the moment a player building a highway tunnel would set up something like a toll-booth over the highway, charging everyone who wants to us the tunnel 25c to cover the 6S that player spend to maintain a deed, quite some players wouldn't like that.

But at the same time it's tolerated when a private hunting group is doing that and selling the items they got at high prizes, as their only competition is another private hunting group.

 

 

5) Impalongs:

 

5a) I won't spend much time at this, but has anyone noticed that we've had impalongs organized by the same persons for the past years now? When something like that happens, at some point no-one will organize an impalong, as we all know there's going to be one at "X specific date at Y specific deed / server".

 

5b) On top of that, the focus has changed from imping items for free with some games as minor entertainment, to major entertainment and arena fights and imping only done by those who aren't interested in fun and games; or those not being able to be online when the fun and games are happening.

The result of that is that players are beginning to be left out and eventually decide they may as well leave the game completely. After all, why stick around in a game where you're considered a lesser part of the community, simply because you're living at another continent?

 

 

Bottom line,

 

While Wurm was a community driven game when some of us - and myself included - began playing, it's more and more becomming a game for a bunch of egocentric players who don't give a damn about others, as long as they're having a good time. Resulting in those who are willing to do things for the community either feel neglected, ignored or simply deciding to leave the game.

And  those players who're still prepared to do community things, are more and more keeping quiet about it and / or deciding it's not worth their time, money and effort anymore. Usually resulting in partially finished projects which are no good to anyone.

 

 

Thorin :)

 

 

Oh no, conflict between players in an mmo. Stop it!

 

My dude, every mmo has player conflict. There will always be troublemakers and rude people. That is why it is the job of the developers to create systems that minimize / foment this conflict depending on what their intentions are regarding the community. PVP players need more conflict while PVE players need less. And there are more forms of pvp other than bashing each other's skulls on Chaos (i.e. Market PVP).

 

An example of this is the deed access rules, or the changes to unique slaying. The issue is that lately most of the issues are handled by staff who want to 'govern' by fiat, instead of changing the mechanics. They could try new ways to distribute loot during rifts, or change the way the uniques distribute loot. This will not only prevent problems between players, but will also make it so the GM Team doesnt have to issue bans for inconsequential things that will only result in the reduction of an already small community.

 

Blaming the community for problems caused by game design is pretty unfair.

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7 hours ago, Sindusk said:

How to Make Everyone Happy: A Guide

 

Also, 

 

 

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What I, btw., fail to understand, is how you can speak of intentions to improve QoL, and stubbornly stick to that horrible "light breeze" torture. Right now, returning from a fairly pleasant rift fight, I cannot get to bed for another one and a half hour for a tour which can be made in 45 minutes (which still is not few). I understand if someone rage quits about.

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