Eyesgood

What Is Wrong With Wurm?

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

Portal travel has been discussed, but it bypasses a lot about wurm. You become far more secluded in your own little bubble because you don't travel and see others, you just hop between your own zones. 

 

It creates a huge block to engagement and removes the entire aspect of adventuring. 

 

Wanting to save time on travel is fair, we've been discussing ways of speeding up sail travel away from land and various factors about that (also improving how vehicle movement feels with this upcoming update) but at this point being able to portal between servers and deeds is not something that we feel fits within our goals for the game. 

I would kindly disagree.  I am far more secluded because of the travel than I would ever be if more options were available.  Take games like EQ2.  You can pop all over the place in that game and it doesn't take away the expansiveness of the maps, or the immersion, or the engagement.  Rather, it enhances opportunities for all three.  I know EQ2 is a themepark and not a sandbox.  But still, maybe goals should be weighed in light of the QOL of the players experience in addition to developer ideals?  Compromise in design might go a long way towards getting rewarded with a larger player base.

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2 minutes ago, Eyesgood said:

I would kindly disagree.  I am far more secluded because of the travel than I would ever be if more options were available.  Take games like EQ2.  You can pop all over the place in that game and it doesn't take away the expansiveness of the maps, or the immersion, or the engagement.  Rather, it enhances opportunities for all three.  I know EQ2 is a themepark and not a sandbox.  But still, maybe goals should be weighed in light of the QOL of the players experience in addition to developer ideals?  Compromise in design might go a long way towards getting rewarded with a larger player base.

Being a theme park it's  a bit different yeah. 

 

We have discussed various factors, and definitely agree travel between servers can be slow, so we're looking to increase that.

 

I'm guessing you live on Xanadu, which is understandably way too big for anything feasible, perhaps a portal system between the starter towns would be a nice bonus there. 

 

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Personally, I feel that adding sort of an auto-travel solution that adds a hefty speed boost and utilizes the highway system would be a great step forward. It makes use of currently existing in-game systems, doesn't render anything obsolete (contingent on it scaling with things like gear-given speed boosts, perhaps vehicle quality, etc.) and both adds further functionality to the highway system and a reason for the community to put forth the effort that highway development requires. Furthermore, it would alleviate consumer complaints and maintain the sense of community that (and we) you desire.

Edited by Delacroix
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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Portal travel has been discussed, but it bypasses a lot about wurm. You become far more secluded in your own little bubble because you don't travel and see others, you just hop between your own zones. 

 

It creates a huge block to engagement and removes the entire aspect of adventuring. 

 

Wanting to save time on travel is fair, we've been discussing ways of speeding up sail travel away from land and various factors about that (also improving how vehicle movement feels with this upcoming update) but at this point being able to portal between servers and deeds is not something that we feel fits within our goals for the game. 

I do agree that goes to far, the main travel issue is the boats and horses do take Very long time to move within a server and it creates a very Anti Social environment. But if people are very close it generates issues; For example Mining since it only 2 D can end up blocking mining locations for others in a very large area quickly. Plus Hunting becomes a serious issue since deeds block spawning. Plus a dozen other issues.....

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Xanadu - all gales, all the time.  Retro keeps saying "no".... but I think it should be re-visited.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

aside from that there's a big difference between quality of life and just making the game easier. 

There is again...
Lets veteran cry and you cry too, this is the reason why dont have good any retention: game is too grindy, steam WO will fail miserably for the same reason.
lets say X toon took a year to grind ws to 90+, so the owner wants everybody grind to death or burnout until get similar skill. highend players dont use anything less than 90ql even with rule of 70. Moreover that toon could ever still there after the owner quit because can be sold, many old accounts most times still around.
RMT toons sold aside, wurms need lots of tweaks for example materials for walls (arch walls use the same amount than any others, same for windows/doors). materials for knarr or harder boats are massive, colossus are fine but attach ratio suck and i can continue with almost anything crafteable.

If QoL mean making game easy, back terraform rock to old one when need 20-30 actions to take off 1, also quit all level/flatten options because is QoL that make easy terraform, BSB/BCU/FSB need to go out too, lets store everything on crates without racks! size of crates are debatible but if large crate gone is fine because is a QoL that make wurm easy too.
Still too grindy? WU have an option to set skill and timers to 0.01, yes 1% for WO.

If wurm want survive, people who is afraid of change, want everybody pass grind the same need take a step aside of decisions.

Rule of 70 (just ignore the ascii art of rolf there):

 

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1 hour ago, tamat said:

There is again...
Lets veteran cry and you cry too, this is the reason why dont have good any retention: game is too grindy, steam WO will fail miserably for the same reason.
lets say X toon took a year to grind ws to 90+, so the owner wants everybody grind to death or burnout until get similar skill. highend players dont use anything less than 90ql even with rule of 70. Moreover that toon could ever still there after the owner quit because can be sold, many old accounts most times still around.
RMT toons sold aside, wurms need lots of tweaks for example materials for walls (arch walls use the same amount than any others, same for windows/doors). materials for knarr or harder boats are massive, colossus are fine but attach ratio suck and i can continue with almost anything crafteable.

If QoL mean making game easy, back terraform rock to old one when need 20-30 actions to take off 1, also quit all level/flatten options because is QoL that make easy terraform, BSB/BCU/FSB need to go out too, lets store everything on crates without racks! size of crates are debatible but if large crate gone is fine because is a QoL that make wurm easy too.
Still too grindy? WU have an option to set skill and timers to 0.01, yes 1% for WO.

If wurm want survive, people who is afraid of change, want everybody pass grind the same need take a step aside of decisions.

Rule of 70 (just ignore the ascii art of rolf there):

 

your use of bold is just as distracting as bloodscythes colours. 

 

Quality of life is reducing unnecessary actions or streamlining things, some of it is beneficial but some impacts the balance of things. The amount of materials needed for every wall being the same is a balance thing, sure it visually looks different, but it serves the same purpose in regards to protection and housing (counts as a finished wall for sleeping and permissions purposes). 

 

They are all good examples of quality of life that doesn't just make the game easy mode, it removes some clutter and makes playing more streamlined. 

 

Wurm will always be grindy, it's not about the endgame, it's about the journey, and yes, it won't appeal to a casual playerbase who expects to jump in and hit max levels in a few months, but we pride the game on being about the sense of achievement and wish to continue that. The UI will include plenty quality of life things such as a default action keybind, and looking at a repeat last action keybind possibility (no promises).

 

If your argument is that wurm doesn't add QoL I'd say you're dead wrong, but if your argument is that Wurm should focus on being easier to grind to 90 then I hate to disappoint you but it's not in our intentions to change that, it's faster than it used to be by far as is. 

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1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

Xanadu - all gales, all the time.  Retro keeps saying "no".... but I think it should be re-visited.

YcAQlkx.gif

 

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Portal travel has been discussed, but it bypasses a lot about wurm. You become far more secluded in your own little bubble because you don't travel and see others, you just hop between your own zones. 

 

It creates a huge block to engagement and removes the entire aspect of adventuring. 

 

I can sail 2 hours on Xan without seeing a single soul in local, in the games current state, this is a completely moot argument.

And even so, you just sail by those strangers, maybe waving once, but you don't engage with them. What are you trying to do, force people to mingle with others on the wayside rather than the players they actually travel to?

Your strange vision of how people act reminds me of your apologia in the Rite goal topic. This isn't how it works. This isn't how any of this works. Who's thinking of these ideas?

 

Either way, this insistence on "adventure" is just another example of how stifled Wurm as a sandbox game is, because setting out on an adventure is a conscious choice a player should make, not something forced on someone trying to help a remote friend out setting something up. You guys seem to keep whipping up some specific ideal of a gameplay experience that should be integral to the whole game and that everyone will enjoy it. And in this instance, it ends up having most people, especially on Xanadu, homestuck because it's not physically feasible to accomodate your proposed idea of a "game" into a single play session of humane and reasonable length. Fast travel won't remove adventuring for those who want it. Without anything of the sort, however, you force it on everyone who rather spends time with something they deem more meaningful than autowalking with occasional breakes to let your character whack a troll. (If you're not picking up on it, what I'm saying is that combat and general interaction isn't exactly "adventurous")

 

And even if adventure is supposed to be so integral that riding a vehicle for hours on end until someone may have to go to bed for their real life jobs and responsibilities (that one seemingly mustn't have to feasibly play this game the way you envision it), it's quite irritating that logging out on the road still deprives you of any and all precious sleep bonus, severely disincentivizing the whole endeavour again. There are some mixed messages here, and I can confidently tell you that missing out on sleep bonus if I set out on something has stopped me from going anywhere on more than one occasion. The things I would leave the deed for are generally not worth the extra SB I would have missed out on.

34 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Wurm will always be grindy, it's not about the endgame, it's about the journey, and yes, it won't appeal to a casual playerbase who expects to jump in and hit max levels in a few months, but we pride the game on being about the sense of achievement and wish to continue that.

I have several skills in the 90s and almost hit 100 carpentry. Ask me how achieved I feel having virtually no benefits for it other than making bigger numbers on items. The novelty wears off quickly when you imp an item to 98+ QL over several hours, if not days, one or two times. The passage in bold is a complete oxymoron when it comes to any "sense of achievement", at least in context of the games current state.

I'm not sure if you're strawmanning the opposition in this thread with your reference to casual players or if that's just another canned response thrown out, but nobody (here) is against the grind. But I'm against a grind without any purpose. That purpose doesn't neccessarily need to come from the game, but as illustrated in my first post, without the players to sustain an environment that makes setting up such goals for yourself worthwhile at all, there is no journey except a very lonely and moot one.

The stance you present would make sense if Wurm hadn't terribly failed at player retention as much as it did on developing further in its quintessence.

 

I used to respect the hard lines you guys drive about core parts of the game, because at least this gives some semblance of stability, but in this regard it strikes me more as stubborness and failure to adapt to a new situation in which a previously feasible idea no longer holds up to scrutiny.

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8 hours ago, Quicktor said:

RIP gladiator btw

 

I take it it was his

6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

horrible abuse

of saying that staff are being censorious.  I wasn't exactly friends with Gladys but that post was pretty innocuous, removing it is pretty ironic and not exactly a good look. It basically confirms what he said.

 

6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I'd say we tend to give enough leeway. 

Then why does everyone still feel like walking on egg shells when dealing with you guys?

Nevermind, I tried to open a dialogue over the censorious practices here and the thread was simply removed and never even acknowledged in the PMs we had following this fallout, I expect this to disappear into the nether aswell. Remember what they say about cutting off a man's tongue though.

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Walking on egg shells is mild statement. Current state feels like being in north korea. 

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1 hour ago, Flubb said:

of saying that staff are being censorious.  I wasn't exactly friends with Gladys but that post was pretty innocuous, removing it is pretty ironic and not exactly a good look. It basically confirms what he said.

 

When you need to remove 75% of what a player says over the last six months due to constant staff and game bashing, it becomes clear they're not a positive influence on the forums. 

Using this forums is not a right, it comes with an agreement of what the rules are and we expect members to abide by them, if you continue to ignore repeated warnings you will be removed, it's not censorship, it's maintaining our side of the bargain that the rules are to be adhered to. 

 

1 hour ago, Flubb said:

Nevermind, I tried to open a dialogue over the censorious practices here and the thread was simply removed and never even acknowledged in the PMs we had following this fallout, I expect this to disappear into the nether aswell. Remember what they say about cutting off a man's tongue though.

I was going to talk with you about that but your last PM was clear you didn't actually wish to talk further so I didn't. Moderation is not censorship, this is a forum that all users can enjoy, it is not a soapbox to harass staff, and if you have an issue with rules I can gladly discuss it further in PM. 

 

43 minutes ago, Themystrix said:

Walking on egg shells is mild statement. Current state feels like being in north korea. 

You've not had a post hidden since october, and that was due to being off topic in a bug report. Again though, hiding a post does not incur any penalty. If you say something and it's hidden, it's no harm no foul. Only when it's sustained repeated behaviour in spite of being spoken to in a verbal warning and then receiving an official warning that pushing the boundaries again would lead to a ban. Most reason people say others are targetted is because they've ignored all of those and continue to post in defiance of our rules. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Flubb said:

Either way, this insistence on "adventure" is just another example of how stifled Wurm as a sandbox game is, because setting out on an adventure is a conscious choice a player should make, not something forced on someone trying to help a remote friend out setting something up. You guys seem to keep whipping up some specific ideal of a gameplay experience that should be integral to the whole game and that everyone will enjoy it. And in this instance, it ends up having most people, especially on Xanadu, homestuck because it's not physically feasible to accomodate your proposed idea of a "game" into a single play session of humane and reasonable length. Fast travel won't remove adventuring for those who want it. Without anything of the sort, however, you force it on everyone who rather spends time with something they deem more meaningful than autowalking with occasional breakes to let your character whack a troll. (If you're not picking up on it, what I'm saying is that combat and general interaction isn't exactly "adventurous")

 

Heading out to help someone, or travelling to new lands is an adventure! It's a conscious choice you make to travel the lands and help someone. The desire to fast travel to locations bypasses the time/distance feeling, and while I agree that may be a positive thing (such as long trips on boats between servers, the very thing I've said we're looking at) I don't think the ability to simply teleport between settlements is a positive thing. 

 

It seems to me the biggest complaints about travel come from Xanadu, which makes sense, we've often stated that it's simply too big, it causes issues with player density, travel, and server based lag. I have proposed that we implement a starter deed portal network but I don't know of the reply, hopefully something can come of it but we'll see. 

 

1 hour ago, Flubb said:

I have several skills in the 90s and almost hit 100 carpentry. Ask me how achieved I feel having virtually no benefits for it other than making bigger numbers on items. The novelty wears off quickly when you imp an item to 98+ QL over several hours, if not days, one or two times. The passage in bold is a complete oxymoron when it comes to any "sense of achievement", at least in context of the games current state.

I'm not sure if you're strawmanning the opposition in this thread with your reference to casual players or if that's just another canned response thrown out, but nobody (here) is against the grind. But I'm against a grind without any purpose. That purpose doesn't neccessarily need to come from the game, but as illustrated in my first post, without the players to sustain an environment that makes setting up such goals for yourself worthwhile at all, there is no journey except a very lonely and moot one.

It was a reference to tamats statement about weaponsmiths saying it should be hard because they did it the hard way. 

 

In the end I do agree that many aspects of Wurm need to improve to be engaging, and I have been working with the dev team on these areas. There's various jarring aspects starting out that don't exactly provide a huge encouragement to get better skills but instead feel incredibly limiting, and I'll be talking about that later I hope. 

 

But yeah, if you want to continue that conversation, shoot me a reply to the PM, I thought you wanted it ended. 

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[02:43:22] No other players are online on Release (138 totally in Wurm). game is lively

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Thanks for that clarification, but my comment was rather a statement of an overall feeling that lies here currently. Not saying i am fan of pretty much any of the people that has got a ban, but still. 

 

 

Back to original topic, i dont see 16euros per 2 months being too expensive + 2SB that comes from that, albion online for example is 9euro per month and people pay it. Then again, im not agaisnt changing this full free to play with cash shop with non-pay-win stuff either, i would support with that model also. 

 

Im glad that account trading is getting banned, never understood the need. Hurts the game more than anything. Too many high-end accounts nowadays. 

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9 minutes ago, Themystrix said:

Back to original topic, i dont see 16euros per 2 months being too expensive + 2SB that comes from that, albion online for example is 9euro per month and people pay it. Then again, im not agaisnt changing this full free to play with cash shop with non-pay-win stuff either, i would support with that model also. 

 

A cash shop being the full income is a big risk, and a small playerbase won't support it enough, you'd all have to be spending a fortune which usually means P2W tactics creep in (from my experience with other games). 

 

We have been looking into potentially finding a way for premium to cover a small sized deed upkeep as well, we don't want it to be just silver or some way to gain extra silver out of it, but we'll see. 

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I was going to talk with you about that but your last PM was clear you didn't actually wish to talk further so I didn't.

 

That's simplifying things by quite a lot. I had repeatedly alluded to my thread about censorship being removed as pretty indictive of your zealous moderation, but you kept harping on the initial incident where a post of mine was "removed for moderation", without a single acknowledgement of said thread and the general trend it attempted to address. This spanned over several messages, and now you're tellling me "Oh, I was gonna get to that, but you cut me off suddenly"?! No my dude. I gave up on trying to steer the conversation there because I couldn't stand another canned, obtuse response about something that I had well moved past from.

 

You're trying to drop the ball in my court but I'm not playing that game. You wish to do this via PM for narrative control, and this is exactly the problem that made me give up on the issue to begin with.

 

But whatever, we may have talked past eachother because the convo was heated and long and you're clearly pressed for time to answer elaborately to everything, so I'll leave it at this note:

If you're genuinely interested in engaging with the clearly pervasive sentiment that people feel censored (and "it's our rules though" is a petty objection about semantics that does little to dispel that notion), unhide my latest thread or start your own to adress this. Everything else just seems in bad faith at this point and honestly not worth engaging with.

This is all I say to this, lest it derails this thread, which is about the game, not the moderation.

 

47 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Heading out to help someone, or travelling to new lands is an adventure! It's a conscious choice you make to travel the lands and help someone.

 

The point is that one may not want the "adventure" part to begin with and given either option, they'll rather stay on their deed, leading to the exact isolation that you try to combat with being so strict about any sort of fast, or at least convenient travel. And while I was a Xanadian, I had travelled around smaller servers, too, for some events, and it was still dreadfully long just getting from the border to a public slaying for instance. The travel time is disproportionate to the things you actually want to get done whereever you go, and it's a huge hindrance for anyone on a tighter "time budget". I must reiterate, this isn't a "make it easier", or demand to cater to people who don't like Wurm, but I'm not the only one telling you in no uncertain terms that even people who like the game don't have the time for it or cut the experience short in ways that make it moot as an MMO. (AKA staying at home)

 

I agree with your "exclusive zone" theory to some extent, I've noticed this effect when playing Oblivion after Morrowind. However, Morrowind struck a good balance with fast travel at designated locations, rather than free for all time skips to anywhere. I think a starter town portal network across the cluster would reasonably approximate this, though personally I'd still find travel times from a the center of a 8x8 server to its outer coast a bit unreasonable (since in this scenario, you won't neccessarily have a horse or boat) depending on what I want to do. And most things in the game currently aren't worth it. Being on the road isn't enganging either.

I think what Wurm should best do is cut out some of the travel using portals, and make what's left of it more engaging or convenient;

-more engaging with better combat against mobs, perhaps introducing mobs with loot (highwaymen and bandits?).

-more convenient with highway based auto travel.

But that's an improvement direction for PvE and I already said my peace about that, so take it with a grain of salt.

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Thx to summon soul, i can jump back and forth to my brothers deeds to help them out on xanadu, if i had to sail, i wouldnt, takes too much time as i have limited amount of that in a day. Roughly 3 hours a day spare nowadays and half of it goes to very small hunting trip. If i had some sort of quick option to get access to bed while on wilderness so i dont have to travel back, would be nice. Althought there is option to make 1x1 houses all over the map, but those are rather annoying and only brick version would suffice. 

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29 minutes ago, Flubb said:

 

That's simplifying things by quite a lot. I had repeatedly alluded to my thread about censorship being removed as pretty indictive of your zealous moderation, but you kept harping on the initial incident where a post of mine was "removed for moderation", without a single acknowledgement of said thread and the general trend it attempted to address. This spanned over several messages, and now you're tellling me "Oh, I was gonna get to that, but you cut me off suddenly"?! No my dude. I gave up on trying to steer the conversation there because I couldn't stand another canned, obtuse response about something that I had well moved past from.

 

You're trying to drop the ball in my court but I'm not playing that game. You wish to do this via PM for narrative control, and this is exactly the problem that made me give up on the issue to begin with.

 

But whatever, we may have talked past eachother because the convo was heated and long and you're clearly pressed for time to answer elaborately to everything, so I'll leave it at this note:

If you're genuinely interested in engaging with the clearly pervasive sentiment that people feel censored (and "it's our rules though" is a petty objection about semantics that does little to dispel that notion), unhide my latest thread or start your own to adress this. Everything else just seems in bad faith at this point and honestly not worth engaging with.

 

Sorry you felt that way. I thought that I outlined my decision regarding it. 

 

Anyways, it's not about narrative control, more about the right time and place, which isn't here. Will see about a post. 

 

32 minutes ago, Flubb said:

The point is that one may not want the "adventure" part to begin with and given either option, they'll rather stay on their deed, leading to the exact isolation that you try to combat with being so strict about any sort of fast, or at least convenient travel. And while I was a Xanadian, I had travelled around smaller servers, too, for some events, and it was still dreadfully long just getting from the border to a public slaying for instance. The travel time is disproportionate to the things you actually want to get done whereever you go, and it's a huge hindrance for anyone on a tighter "time budget". I must reiterate, this isn't a "make it easier", or demand to cater to people who don't like Wurm, but I'm not the only one telling you in no uncertain terms that even people who like the game don't have the time for it or cut the experience short in ways that make it moot as an MMO. (AKA staying at home)

 

I agree with your "exclusive zone" theory to some extent, I've noticed this effect when playing Oblivion after Morrowind. However, Morrowind struck a good balance with fast travel at designated locations, rather than free for all time skips to anywhere. I think a starter town portal network across the cluster would reasonably approximate this, though personally I'd still find travel times from a the center of a 8x8 server to its outer coast a bit unreasonable (since in this scenario, you won't neccessarily have a horse or boat) depending on what I want to do. And most things in the game currently aren't worth it. Being on the road isn't enganging either.

I think what Wurm should best do is cut out some of the travel using portals, and make what's left of it more engaging or convenient;

-more engaging with better combat against mobs, perhaps introducing mobs with loot (highwaymen and bandits?).

-more convenient with highway based auto travel.

But that's an improvement direction for PvE and I already said my peace about that, so take it with a grain of salt.

bandits and such pull away from the sandbox and add more NPC content, which I don't feel has worked well in wurm, given rifts and jackal are still contentious issues yet the very definition of npc combat. 

Highway based auto travel creates other issues such as being attacked on the road, or being afk and dying and any bugs that arise (sometimes wagoners get lost and portalled). 

 

I can only pass on suggestions and get feedback, I feel some of this "retro says no" is because I have a good communication line with the dev team and get answers quickly, or the conversation has been covered before so there's little mention or time for discussion it's just me saying no, I'll work on that. 

 

I dont think geared travel can be compared to ungeared travel too, it's a bit different walking at 15 km/h on foot and riding a 35 km/h geared horse, maybe portals would encourage horse markets more? 

 

Just now, Themystrix said:

Thx to summon soul, i can jump back and forth to my brothers deeds to help them out on xanadu, if i had to sail, i wouldnt, takes too much time as i have limited amount of that in a day. Roughly 3 hours a day spare nowadays and half of it goes to very small hunting trip. If i had some sort of quick option to get access to bed while on wilderness so i dont have to travel back, would be nice. Althought there is option to make 1x1 houses all over the map, but those are rather annoying and only brick version would suffice. 

You are right in that summon soul creates a form of this, so I dont think the full argument of either side is completely up to date, maybe summon soul fills that nice little requirement for portals while still creating engagement in the need to travel? 

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31 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Anyways, it's not about narrative control, more about the right time and place, which isn't here.

 

if someone would just make a topic about that 🤔

oh wait....its gonna get removed anyway

 

if nowhere is the right place, how do we go about raising a point then?

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OP brought up some good points, especially about saturation on the high end. Steam WO will go a long way towards remedying that.

 

Also, in terms of censorship, I see retro being pretty fair. If you whip your nethers out in front of the police, you can't cry  discrimination when they arrest you with cause. As far as I see the devs let constructive criticism and design complaints slide (albeit often it does not find a receptive ear).  Its personal attacks and toxicity that get moderated. 

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

your use of bold is just as distracting as bloodscythes colours. 

 

Quality of life is reducing unnecessary actions or streamlining things, some of it is beneficial but some impacts the balance of things. The amount of materials needed for every wall being the same is a balance thing, sure it visually looks different, but it serves the same purpose in regards to protection and housing (counts as a finished wall for sleeping and permissions purposes). 

 

They are all good examples of quality of life that doesn't just make the game easy mode, it removes some clutter and makes playing more streamlined. 

 

Wurm will always be grindy, it's not about the endgame, it's about the journey, and yes, it won't appeal to a casual playerbase who expects to jump in and hit max levels in a few months, but we pride the game on being about the sense of achievement and wish to continue that. The UI will include plenty quality of life things such as a default action keybind, and looking at a repeat last action keybind possibility (no promises).

 

If your argument is that wurm doesn't add QoL I'd say you're dead wrong, but if your argument is that Wurm should focus on being easier to grind to 90 then I hate to disappoint you but it's not in our intentions to change that, it's faster than it used to be by far as is. 

welcome to XXI century, media changed, if you want appeal younger player (than you) need change how you write so no huge block os text and use bold to guide people, remember the links i shared to you in other thread? look like you didnt checked them. dont take it like an attack but if you have a problem reading a text because some part have bold used to guide you to understand the ideas behind it maybe you need reconsider your positions as public relationship member...

you said it, serves the same way and also look different so logic that will need different amount of materials, balance what? barred walls have metal bars than not in materials but cant build a bridge over them, but bridge work with plain.

my argument was in comment that you quoted, read it again if not get it, read your comment and mine again, several times if necesary
 

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Ok... piling on.

 

Travel in and by itself is not much of an issue for me.  I casually toured all the PvE starter towns (only 3 on Xanadu - had visited the others before).  As long as you are prepared for travel, and a chance at crap wind - really not a big deal.

 

Biggest issues with travel

- Sacrificing skill grind during transit - cannot skill ANYTHING while commanding a vehicle.  Wasted time - why leave?

- Time required to set up a "camp" (read: 4 walls and dropping a bed).  I can carry 3 "camps" in a large crate and a pocket of nails.  Takes me about 20 mins with "decent" carp and mallet skills, but I also have a 70ql WOA mallet.  I bought that - because of how LONG it took before.

- Mob concentrations are excessive in certain areas.  I get that it is a boon when I want to harvest animals or skill my fight/butch/weapons skills... but... if not, it is a drag, not a fun challenge.  I have read the posts over the years addressing mob ai, spawn rates and disbursements - and have gained a lot of insight in realized the developers have done the best they could, or even implemented some neat modifications. No matter how you shake it - it just doesn't feel right.

- Where am I going?  There is no method to know if the a town in an area offers beds, food, imp service or anything else I might want.  No way to know but Hey Global.

 

Haven's landing is not complete.  The stables don't make sense, the land is getting worn out, carts galore, 2 buildings crammed with stored items, new players don't understand the communal fields, cant bontanize/forage, cant repair items (loom/rugs getting worn down), the apartments look like tenants skipped town, empty buildings, too spread out, and no clear visual lines (walls) of where HL ends, parts of the terrain are just blocked off.  If there was any moderate to major influx of players - HL would probably not be as positive as one might imagine.

 

Starter towns either have everything you need, or is just a mailbox and templars.  The issue I have with that, is when you are selecting which server to go to, there is no way of knowing what is available to start out with.  Either I am going to struggle needlessly for the next few weeks - either overcoming or quitting - or I am going to have access to everything I need, and only need to build a house to store my crap.  Why do they exist at all?  Allow renting.   Allow parceling.  How many players would rent - for the freedom of choice - rather than becoming a citizen at the mercy of whatever whim the mayor has?  The opposite is a commune.  Gratitude can be a discomforting expense.  I'd rather pay my way than be beholden - but have no desire in being king of the token - and I'd like to do it AROUND people.

 

It feels like you either dive right in to Chaos... or you struggle to get your feet on the ground in the Freedom Isles, and Chaos is just some far away death vacuum that no one plays at, but no one is confident to go.  I worked so hard at getting this one quality hammer!  I needs it! I cant loose it in Chaos.... what could a single player, or small group do in Chaos (reward) that is worth the risk of losing my cheap ass, yet hard earned gear?  I mean isn't that what Freedom isles is mostly made of? Single/Small Groups?

 

I think the conversations surrounding the identity crisis is where its at.  I can be a hunter - but I cant really.  I can be an innkeeper - but I cant really.  I can be a merchant and resale others goods, but I cant really.  I can be a soldier, but I cant really.  I can be a sailor, but I cant really.

 

Anyway, I cant think of an MMO that has EVER inspired my imagination like this one.  But the winds drop out of my sails too often.

 

Here's to hope.  Love you all.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Heading out to help someone, or travelling to new lands is an adventure! It's a conscious choice you make to travel the lands and help someone. The desire to fast travel to locations bypasses the time/distance feeling, and while I agree that may be a positive thing (such as long trips on boats between servers, the very thing I've said we're looking at) I don't think the ability to simply teleport between settlements is a positive thing. 

 

It seems to me the biggest complaints about travel come from Xanadu, which makes sense, we've often stated that it's simply too big, it causes issues with player density, travel, and server based lag. I have proposed that we implement a starter deed portal network but I don't know of the reply, hopefully something can come of it but we'll see. 

 

I actually like to explore and see things. But the way things are, I need to put aside a 5+ hour block of time for a play session where I can make a loop that takes me less than 750 or so tiles away from home and still gets me back at the end. For a game that's really too much. Anything outside that area might as well not exist for me right now, including other servers. Sure, I can plan a multiday trip, but I have crops to tend and horses to brush and various projects I want to work on where I live. A longer trip is a way too big commitment and even a shorter trip is not something I really want to get into in the average playing session. I think that if you want people to travel more you need to make it so people can meaningfully do so in an average weekday evening playing session.

 

Perhaps it's worth it to look at it from another angle. What's the maximum travel time between any two parts of the game that you'd find acceptable? I think for the most part it should not be more than an hour or so. That's still enough to make places feel distant, but small enough it's feasible to actually go there.

 

I agree that fast travel from any village to any other village would not fit the game. But having starter deed portals would help much as it would put way more land within reach.

 

On-rails travel on the highway system would help as well. Go to any highway marker while in a wagon and pick a destination, and the cart drives itself there at a good speed. And if you go offline and come back later, you get distance credited based on the time you were offline. This would still require planning but if I wanted to explore somewhere else on the map this evening, I could set myself on a route like this in the morning and be there when I logged in to play later. And when I'm done I can go on a route back, and tomorrow I'm back home. For shorter distances it would help as well as I could go on rails while doing something else and then put my attention to exploring the actual areas I'm interested in at that point instead of spending half an hour each direction on the two or three main entranceways to my deed.

 

Another idea is to just give everyone a once-per-18-hours teleport back to their home deed, including the horse or cart you're on. If I can get back that way, and know I can get back, I can just continue traveling and exploring until the end of my play session, instead of having to estimate when I'm about halfway through and returning then. It's less realistic, yes. But it means I can go over twice the linear distance away (because I don't have to make a loop and because I don't have to make allowances to make sure I get back on time). And twice the linear distance means four times the surface area in reach of exploration. More likely it'd be six or seven times as much. It would make visiting someone else's deed nicer too: go there, see things along the way, spend the time, and when you're done you can just pop back to your own deed and continue life, instead of having to see everything on the way a second time.

 

Another idea, which is perhaps a bit more in-the-sky, is to make it so every toon can have a magical "duplicate" of themselves, and switch between them. It would be like having two separate toons, but more linked up, and you can't be both at the same time. Inventories would not be shared, but skills etc. would. The way this would work is that you can have one version of yourself stay where you live, and build and skill and brush animals and do whatever you normally do. Then if you feel like adventuring you can "migrate your consciousness" at a bed (which effectively just teleports you and swaps your inventory), load up your adventuring supplies, and go off. Then later when you are done adventuring for the day or need to brush some more cows, or the person you were going to meet hasn't shown up, or whatever other reason you have, you can put down your tent and migrate your consciousness right back to your home-copy, and get on with life there. And when you want to adventure more, you can migrate your consciousness back to the explorer copy and just spend however much time you have, even if it's just half an hour or so. And if it takes you a week real life before you're back home that's no problem as you were able to take care of everything else at home as well. You'd effectively be doing the traveling and exploring in bite-sized chunks, which I think would be a major boon.

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3 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

 

 

Another idea is to just give everyone a once-per-18-hours teleport back to their home deed, including the horse or cart you're on. If I can get back that way, and know I can get back, I can just continue traveling and exploring until the end of my play session, instead of having to estimate when I'm about halfway through and returning then. It's less realistic, yes. But it means I can go over twice the linear distance away (because I don't have to make a loop and because I don't have to make allowances to make sure I get back on time). And twice the linear distance means four times the surface area in reach of exploration. More likely it'd be six or seven times as much. It would make visiting someone else's deed nicer too: go there, see things along the way, spend the time, and when you're done you can just pop back to your own deed and continue life, instead of having to see everything on the way a second time.

meditation have that also by karma but not for horses/vehicles

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