Jadegeier

Where the hell are... things?

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On 12/2/2019 at 9:23 PM, Jadegeier said:

1*... Google for "youtube wurm online", and it gave me some links to proper wurm videos by Emoo, Katspurr, Factional Fight, Gerugon, and some others playing WU.
2* Nothing about Retrograde or any OFFICIAL wurm videos, not even on the second page!
3*
(I also checked via a vpn in case google is too used to what I normally search for, still only Katspurr, Factional Fight, a MMO-Hut video and a link to WO website and wurmpedia listed.)

 

Ok, I thought by myself, can't be that hard, just go to the twitch channel, as 4*  I ofc already know where that is located and check the links there, as twitch streamers usually have ALL of their links set up in their description page.
Well, not Retrograde ofc... found only Twitter, Facebook (which I both don't have or use), and at least a link to the official wurm homepage. Nice...
Valrei Entertainment, yes, that's it... ehhh... listed are Emoo, Katspurr, Factional Fight etc, which I already had found by google but not the official Retrograde's channel.

**
 

Gladly, I was able to rewatch the latest video today, where you (Retrograde) were talking about that 5* merchandise... ahh, right, I wanted to get a coffee mug and maybe a nice wurm pillow.
Guess what... Where the hell are... there is a shop? Oh yes, there is a shop button on the website at least... oh, wait... 😜


6* And this second part does not only go to Retro but also to the DEVS responsible for the website: Where the hell are... things?

1. Retrograde/Wurm online official twitch channel not listed on website
2. Wurm Online official Youtube not listed on website
3. Merchandise shop not listed on website

 

4. Employment ad for new PR guy not listed on website ^^


So, in all honesty, @Retrograde please sort out your twitch problems, at least ask Emoo or Katspurr how to store vods and make them stay there so people can rewatch them when they have time for it or load them up to Youtube and set a damn link to them on your twitch page!

 

7* And for the responsible devs: please fws (for wurm's sake), get a proper button on the website so I can at least get my wurm pillow and not get nightmares any longer over this ######.

 

And take in mind: I am a wurmian, so I know where what is or at least how to use google properly to find even my pillow. 😜
But you want new players, so how the hell do you think they will be able to find even the most important things?
If they have to go on such a big journey and asking left and right and in hidden places about where to find what when it comes to wurm, then there is something very wrong with you devs (and the PR guy).


PS @Retrograde: If that vod about the Lunalong is still somewhere to be seen, please let me know where.
If it is just vanished, the answer is "cheese" and I'd like to have a rare butcher knife send to me for all that hassle I've gone through. 😜

 

Jade

Initially why I liked the post.. it had some suggestions overall with positive ideas.. but I skipped reading it entirely.. only skimmed around it.. I read it today though:


1* WHO googles for youtube-something… what sorcery is this!? Use youtube… google have a search field there also… 'advanced internet user'… please… : /

2* I guess it's normal, who advertises something and binds brand/product to the PR guy? Tesla/Elon, Apple/Steve maybe.. ok ok.. you got me.. but no.. it's not that common, it's more rare than a standard practice

3* Nobody does that.. nobody does SEO for wurm, ever, "it's the law"!

4* Ok, Fair enough ok this one, easy to fix, twitch isn't the main media, mostly a new thing that starts to become a regular ice breaker and news bringer sometimes earlier than the valrei news, but fair enough media links could be useful there, just as much twitter messages or other instant messaging showing downtimes around maintenances(usually twitter, but could be anything similar..)

** VOD question got answered but.. about the professional streamer part.. aren't they all unemployed/self-.. and just streaming, I'd bet retro's employed, obviously "can't be a pro streamer"; as for storing the vods.. unsure what twitch requires to keep them for longer time.. not all streamers have them kept for eternity, have that in mind.

5* ok.. sure.. Website's shop and merch should be visible even without registering or logging in.. and these links should be easier to find etc.. (be part of the main menus, only if making money is important for anybody)

6* It's there, it's just WEIRD, as it's called with it's own brand name or whatever it is.. it's hard to notice unless you're deeply dipped into the wurm culture, have you seen this page, it's in the main menu, I'd bet money you'd never imagine it lists twitch streamers and information about them, etc: (COMMUNITY -> Valrei Entertainment Networkhttps://www.wurmonline.com/valrei-entertainment-network/

Maybe the 'problem' is that the site have it's own vibe but that could be intended, can't argue about that, BUT, I'll agree that I have never ever ever never.. used the website or had any need to open it for other than re-premming.

Which probably should be given some attention, because for me the website is useless for other than paying subscription, unless that is the solo intend to have it running, else.... some useful information should be given and pointed there.. also made a lot more visible and easy to reach. No hate, just saying how it is for me, event tracking, rifts, global casts, etc.. you have two places.. NIARJA(web spider fed info from tweets, +other stuff) and the forums for the events like impalongs, sh.layings, sermons, etc

The website does not even track or announce important new content streams or 'pin' latest cool content video from twitch/youtube.

Given these are relatively NEW medias for wurm, and all that takes time, team is relatively small and video editing could be a ****** of a time dump so.. I can't blame anybody for that.. and the other part that devs could concentrate on the game players play or .. to work on the website that is not main priority for the moment.. there are other things that matter more for the moment.. 

Hopefully when there's time, around the webshop if any of the mentioned above matters.. could be improved, else it's just as useful, you have the download link, you get the media links and a link to the forum + the resub shop link, all you need for the moment to enjoy the game.

 

7* "And for the responsible devs: please fws (for wurm's sake), get a proper button on the website so I can at least get my wurm pillow and not get nightmares any longer over this ######."

LUL, that's one angry consumer, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
Can't argue with that(image below)

Spoiler

takemymoney.jpg

 

Rest is "a bit" harsh... take advice from @tamat'send a dev to UI/UX course, against his will, it will fix everything'

It's job dude.. you do what you're told to do.. rest is ideas you come up with.. but not all good stuff you intend to improve get in.. or get even heard.. 

Maybe half the stuff you suggest have been talked about but priorities are different, maybe nobody had time to notice any of this, we do now know, I'll leave it at .. it's good that you point it.. maybe it will be given attention now, or later.. or will be dusted, time will tell.

 

Oh if these wishes worked.. I'd like enki oaken toolbelt.. that I didn't win in a GL- quiz.. got a marble pot instead.. yea.. don't think it works like that, you'll live with the loss, next time: do not bookmark, download the vod on time 🍻

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On 12/3/2019 at 9:16 PM, Sklo:D said:

 

Browser cache is a b****...

 

Pressing CTRL+F5 or clearing browser cache should help. Just the normal technical limitation of the internet.

Open in incognito mode to make sure you are viewing the current version of the page.

 

Nope, it's not cache or anything, nothing get's better if I would refresh. 

 

@RetrogradeRetro is right here assuming it has to do with blocking content. 

On 12/3/2019 at 9:20 PM, Retrograde said:

Yes, but it strikes me as a content blocker aimed at blocking Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. 

I am using Adblock Plus, this website is using Wordpress... that's at least the first thing I found out after doing a quick console check and googling for the errors there.

As a first read I can leave this link here for you, Retro: 

https://love2dev.com/blog/what-the-heck-does-neterr_blocked_by_client-mean-and-how-can-you-fix-it/

For now I have set the website as whitelisted. But many others may have some adblock activated and might not care about doing this. 

Edit: Let me know if you need further description of errors and/or me checking things again with Adblock activated. ;)

 

And @Finnn

1. I do google stuff like "youtube something" and maybe others do as well. You can go to youtube and search there as a professional, that's fine.

2. I didn't search for Retrograde youtube, I searched for the "brand WO" ^^

3. Well, you might think a website is useless for a company that has a game and needs not only new people but also earn money for still having said company and game in the future. Maybe they should put a script in, checking for names and if Finnn enters website make it pure white with a link to the premium shop and maybe stick a silly simpsons photo on it. Sounds good. ^^

4. Oh and I don't consider Twitch a "new" thing... but that's just me. 

5. And just an overall opinion by me: It takes like 10 minutes to make a proper picture and put it on the website and make it a link to somewhere (ok, for Retro maybe 10 minutes longer) but... if a dev that earns money with a game can't efford those 10 minutes each day to make stuff better than he shouldn't even get my money at all... but as said, that's just my opinion as a customer and/or I may as well go somewhere else and throw my money at devs that do care.

Tell me, is it bad to care for something you'd love to stick with in the years that come? Should I just stop caring like many other players here do and move on?

I don't think so, I care even so much that I checked my console and tried finding out why it gets blocked etc etc.... I won't stop caring. ;)

Edited by Pandalet
Moderation edit
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Are you guys trolling?
 

45 minutes ago, Jadegeier said:

3. Well, you might think a website is useless

Name 5 things you use from the website,

or 3 if 5 is a big number.. how does the website prove to be useful for you, what do you visit there on regular basis? a.k.a. "prove" you're not trolling above.. 

Doubt you can figure more than the webshop and resub as other is twitter and discord but they are separated media, it's all on the forums: news, announcements, psa, events, etc.. all goes to forums like single point of ..call it however you like.

 

4. wurm twitch is a newly new, new, new.. thing, almost sure there's no newer official media that CC devs/staff produces other than the dev streams and news on stream, nobody talks about twitch itself.

 

If you had issues with adblock, it's your own mess to clean up, nothing to blame on the website or twitch profile page, unless something was updated recently, for the website.. it was updated with new links to social networks month/s ago, there was a talk about that somewhere already(relatively recent one)

I have several of the official adblock filter lists, nothing gets blocked from them, if adblock filters something.. you've done a custom rule or added a faulty one, learn from your mistakes.


 b525ca0d6a688a39229eb9577a510311.jpg

19f43f1a05977409a199d1b642d25286.png

Edited by Finnn
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Put all that stuff on Wurmpedia and make Wurmonline.com link mostly to Wurmpedia since that's the main 99% resource that is used when playing this game.

 

Should have a bunch of linked Youtube videos on the front page of Wurmpedia also for new people.

 

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I won't be going through and working out how to avoid adblock filters, because people who use them don't appreciate them being bypassed, defeats the purpose. 

 

I added the youtube and merch images on the twitch channel and fixed up a little bit, hopefully its easier. 

 

There's also now the Wurm official and unofficial sites post pinned in the town square. 

 

I certainly hope this has cleared up the issues you have, now buy a pillow! 

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40 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

now buy a pillow

retro daki in wurm store confirmed????

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19 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

retro daki in wurm store confirmed????

JETQ6TN.png

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6 hours ago, Finnn said:


19f43f1a05977409a199d1b642d25286.png

 

 

Main site will look better with that small cards

 

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So after doing some looking at what is causing it directly its the filter fanboy-annoyance specifically the part that relates to the pictures itself not being loaded as they are part of the filter list of content to block based on the names used the urls arent being filtered just the pictures are due to its naming

Which if i recall that filter is a default filter that is used/recommended to be used during first time startup which means other "annoyance filters" have them too which means the average user who installs any half decent adblocker will be prompted for it and ticks the box without really reading into it too much so its more over a "average user ticks box that is suggested on first time installation and thus wont ever see wurm links and wont know why its happening" kinda situation :(

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I honestly forgot people actually look at the game site for information on the game. I kinda figured even the boomers just looked up the games on youtube now lol

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3 hours ago, Madnath said:

I honestly forgot people actually look at the game site for information on the game. I kinda figured even the boomers just looked up the games on youtube now lol

retro didnt figured that, still almost not official videos on youtube twitch is not wide as youtube but dont even this there either :P

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13 hours ago, wipeout said:

So after doing some looking at what is causing it directly its the filter fanboy-annoyance specifically the part that relates to the pictures itself not being loaded as they are part of the filter list of content to block based on the names used the urls arent being filtered just the pictures are due to its naming

Which if i recall that filter is a default filter that is used/recommended to be used during first time startup which means other "annoyance filters" have them too which means the average user who installs any half decent adblocker will be prompted for it and ticks the box without really reading into it too much so its more over a "average user ticks box that is suggested on first time installation and thus wont ever see wurm links and wont know why its happening" kinda situation :(

I'd say ignore that.. but.. if naming of the images is the problem and most of the default .Rons use it.. easy enough to fix the naming... who names twitch/twitter image - banner5.gif(havent looked at ctrl+u formatting.. but guessing it's something like that.. for the curious, right click the image -> inspect element.. with any browser of this millenia)

* Have abp, nothing banned on wurm pages though, well a few avatars..🤫

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22 hours ago, Jadegeier said:

 

Nope, it's not cache or anything, nothing get's better if I would refresh. 

@RetrogradeRetro is right here assuming it has to do with blocking content. 

 

Are you living in China 😛

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4 hours ago, tamat said:

retro didnt figured that, still almost not official videos on youtube twitch is not wide as youtube but dont even this there either :P

Even then, I don't think just dumping Twitch VODS on Youtube is the right move. They're very in the moment streams made to chat with the community and show off some things that we're kinda expected to have an idea about already, roughly speaking. Retro'd have to make the chat appear bigger onscreen and for longer for it to really be viable on YouTube, and even if he did that, Wurm isn't a very entertaining game to just watch someone ride around.

 

I think if we can get highlights of the stream, that could be better. I appreciate the desire to archive the streams, but it seems like it'd just not give a great impression for people looking into the game.

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I wanted to just say thank you to Retro for putting the proper youtube and merch shop pics/links in twitch.... I didn't want to do a show off or getting angry or whatever, just trying to be nice and polite as possible as I could. I may sound like an arrogant bit.. but here's my opinion (again). :D

 

1. Wipeout is correct, it's a known bug with wordpress which I found as the very first search result for my console errors.

2. If I would run a company, especially support department here, and you,  Finn, would tell any of my customers to go stfu and fiddle with my adblock you would get fired in that very second because...see further below ( pictures included)... 😜

3. Probably half the people answering here, including Retrograde himself, has obviously not read thoroughly enough what I posted, as I already stated that I do know where things are! I already knew where the merch shop was before I even started posting this thread. ^^

 

Being not only programmer, modder and even kind of a gamedev myself as a hobby since a good bunch of years now I wouldn't even care probably. I am not interested to earn money for wurm because it is not my stuff. And obviously the devs, whoever is the responsible part here, aren't able and don't care for their customers and they should do as Finn already suggested and just get rid of the broken thing they call a website alltogether. I gave Retro a hint to put YT and merch on website and even twitch channel, I gave him a link to read (don't know if he has done but I don't think so) where he could start with getting problems solved, and I am even giving a link in a moment.... compare:

 

first picture is my (hobby) website for the developing things I made years ago and will serve as that in the future as well, running not only properly with the given w3c tools for checking but also doesn't block anything because simple put, it's a proper website and

9Lj846S.png

 

not a buggy hell of broken things like the wo website is, second and third picture 

ZjxcoCD.png

 

7a9IAzM.png

 

You know what, this thread told me that wo devs don't care for their stuff... Retro tried a bit but then either give up or got angry with me or whatever.

Those are simple things to fix when you got a company and want to care not only for your game and website but also for your customers.... again, here is a short read for Retro who hopefully starts to care more now: https://www.wpglobalsupport.com/validate-a-wordpress-website/

 

And you know what? Retro already said it's not for the money, so I guess it's fine if not only the game code but also the website just sits there as is and nothing gets fixed at all, because you know, wurm doesn't need money so who cares if there is a damn button linked to YT or merch even, nobody, right? ^^

 

Edit: And I didn't even started to check for accessibility for wo site, propably the same mess there.  :D

 

Well, I am done here, you can now derail this thread again with silly simpsons pics or whatever comes to your mind... obviously it's only some of us customers here that care about it.

Not me any longer though as... if you can see in my websites check, I have to go and fix things for my own stuff, because I DO CARE for my things and also for my (casual  or not, adblock or not) customers, even if I don't earn money with it because my stuff is free for all.

 

Have a nice day all, and keep on wurming ;)

Jade

Edited by Jadegeier
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2 hours ago, Sklo:D said:

 

Are you living in China 😛

 

LOL, nope but in germany. As you may know (or not) we generally have problems especially with videos on youtube that have so called "GEMA" content in them. So we are copying the chinese way and use VPNs here to view that kind of videos (and maybe some other stuff). ;)

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I'll pass those things along as I'm not a (or the) webdev. I fill in a lot of roles since this company is small and I wind up covering gaps between things taken care of but they're not my forte. 

 

The links you suggested have been added. If your adblock is blocking them it's out of my hands or area of knowledge. 

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1 hour ago, Jadegeier said:

2. If I would run a company, especially support department here, and you,  Finn, would tell any of my customers to go stfu and fiddle with my adblock you would get fired in that very second because...see further below ( pictures included)... 

 

Let's not twist words.. I said that there's no useful content for existing players, new ones could see a few images or check ven list, etc.. but for existing crowd.. there's little to no reason to ever open it unless repremming time is near,  which you also prove to be correct..

 

I'm not watching w3c validations.. go lookup cnn.com, go mail them they have issues.. watch for their reaction.. not good enough?

Go check ebay.com, looks like they have a lot of problems? Doubt that, business is just as good as always.
You want more? Check google.com, checker explodes, great validator..
Check youtube.com while you're at it.. seems like they are deep in the issues wurmonline "have".. oh my.. well maybe website's fine after all, if such big places do not care about standards, why should anybody.(not a question)

If you think they have issues, tell them it hurts their business or shames their dev, doubt there will be reaction from their side.

 

Don't waste somebody's time based on your hobbies, alerting for missing banners on twitch is good also figuring that abp blocks content(nobody btw should give attention to this, it's additional plugin on client's side that harms the page), a fix was was applied to he twitch profile promptly. Make it your hobby to care what plugins you install and how you manage them, after all it's your responsibility anyway.

 

I didn't really read your last post.. after last update in the thread noticed u had my name in it.. seemed like a reason to reply, datz al'.. 

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

If your adblock is blocking them it's out of my hands or area of knowledge. 


But but the info on why its blocked is right there in my post its the naming scheme used by the pictures that are being used which are part of a widely used filter that make the links to those social media sites be missing so its a case of dev doing what makes sense in their mind(naming the youtube picture youtube.jpg) and the annoyance filter filtering out any jpg or png or any other picture format that is used with the name youtube(or fb or instagram and so on)

Anyway we know now why that person wasnt seeing that content they are using adblocker and there is an insanely high chance(im willing to say 99.99%) that they  have an annoyance filter turned on(as you do by default) and thus they arent able to see it
Also this isnt a bug with wordpress here ill show you what ublock origin blocks with its "recommended" filters on
P52vd2N.png
Then 1 step down we are nicely shown as to what filter is blocking the png's and thus not showing the links
ddWtsGb.png

Now you can make the argument of "why not just turn off the annoyance filter" and to that i say the following "SCREW VIDEO ADS" or stupid particle effects(snowfall on websites during winter) or scroll to top buttons or fb share and like buttons on every single blog post on a blog or that insanely long 20+ small 16x16 icon list under most social media posts that companies put out and they want you to share it
There is a reason why mobile browsers have "do not track me" crap in their settings and we have adblocker proxy/vpn apps and also for browsers too its not just for ads its for all the dam tracking all the social media sites do the moment you integrate them into your site

Sure google analytics is nice to have for devs but for users facebook or flooter or telegraph knowing that i spend 1 hour 32 minutes and 12 seconds on the wurm online page because i clicked on a link from fb that went to the wurm page about a update ya na thanks ill pass
And even besides that all the random redirects upon clicking anywhere on a page(that stuff is now even finding its way into legit news websites on specific sections(lifestyle is a great example for many news organizations) where the moment you accidentally click anywhere your redirected to the ad that was sitting there way way further back up on the page(as part of a button that follows the mouse and clicks the ad banner when you click on a page) its nice not having to deal with that ###### hence why so many of us use them
--end of rant


Anyways for the sake of wurm a simple rename would do the job to make them all visible again it could be something that makes sense to the dev internally and then leave some commented code to say what picture is what and tada you still know what picture is what and we the users get to see all links and you wont have people like op being annoyed and calling the dev team out for not caring ;)

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Again, if that is a setting within the adblocker I am not seeking to bypass it and the links are available elsewhere should they wish to find them. 

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The thing is, does CC want their Website to appear properly as designed to every possible visitor or do they prefer to honor if someone is blocking a.... form of advertising?

I am not sure if I would call a link to Youtube or whatever advertising, the whole site is an advertisement for the game so...

 

Then again (at least here in germany) we have people who glue shields above their houses mailboxes that any kind of advertisement is unwanted in their box, which is kinda like an adblocker.... though most delivery kids don't care. ;)

 

There is a point to value someones decision to run a adblocker and to honor it, then again more than half the internet has non-tech-savy users that just install one but most likely do not realize what it actually blocks - specially if the default already filters content and then are surprised why websites don't have a youtube or whatever link.

(I use uBlock Origin and have zero issues and I am lazy and did not fiddle much with it's config.)

 

I am not sure if the adblocker people use in their tests would also block a written link instead of a image?

Otherwise you could just create a nice footer at the very bottom, most company sites have that, kind of a quick link thing for the things people look for the most.

 

But if CC has the position of "people block Youtube for a reason and we honor it" then yea, end of the discussion right there pretty much no matter why otherwise important links for the game are invisible or how easy it would be to fix.

 

It all boils down to how much free "advertisement" and exposure CC wants Wurm to have.

(It's not like a link to Youtube is like you forcing down content the users throat, in the end they would have still to click it... I can't believe someone would be offended by seeing a Youtube link and be like "o m g they use Youtube I so gona not play this".)

 

Personally when I check out a potentially new game watching a good video about it is a lot easier than having to create an account and so on just to be able to login and then again we know how long it takes until you see anything advanced or what is possible in Wurm further down the road... I would think videos are an essential marketing element for a game like Wurm. 😕

 

But as said, it is the decision of the people who run the game.

All we can do is offer input on how to improve what is there, but if it is actually taken and being worked on is CCs decision.

 

Thanks for doing what is within the boundaries of possibility for you @Retrograde.

Edited by Milkdrop
typo v.v me dumb
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I just want to point out that noone in web development uses tools like the W3C validation tools. Maybe the big fat "This tool is an ongoing experiment in better HTML checking, and its behavior remains subject to change" on the top of the page is part of the reason. 

The three most important parts are performance, SEO and security.

Granted, wurmonline.com doesn't score that good on https://gtmetrix.com/reports/wurmonline.com/hC0sl6Qm, but that is another story. I think Retro has done a good job so far on updating the website and other social media content, so maybe applaud him for that instead of bringing up reports from crappy tools.

I kind of agree with Retro on the adblocker part as well, if people want to install browser plugins that they don't have control over or know what the hell is doing, that is their problem, and they will have far bigger issues than not seeing a youtube link on a website. Trying to workaround a plugin defeats the whole purpose of people using that annoyance list on purpose.

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Sure, it may be "their" problem, but it may as well cause us a player or more less depending how things pan out.

 

If you require people to be less naive (to not install any adblock or w/e plugin that the monthly article on a random tech blog of anyones choice may suggests) and be tech savy to handle their PC to be able to view your website properly, then I don't see things going very far either.

 

You say SEO is one of the most important points, sure- I agree, so now you are #1 for Wurmonline on Google and now what?

The less tech savy user comes to the website, sees nothing really quick to grab their attention... it's a hassle to even find a video by the Website (because the non tech savy user installed some adblocker because thats what everyone does these days) and now whos problem is it, the person who just goes on with their life without even trying Wurm or ours cause we lost a potential new player which we bleed for as is...

 

Maybe if you are lucky one bothers enough to actually take to the forums or discord to point this out, but personally I would not bother, if to be as a "non tech savy user" if I was to be one something was not visible, I would not even remotely suspect anything to be there in the first place.

I expect an adblocker to remove Ads, not simple links.

 

You could now go further and make the argument "if they didn't go that far, they are probably not fit to play Wurm anyhow!" and that may be true... but how many hurdles do you want people to overcome to play a game.

 

Just saying, by saying the problem is  on "their" side you don't solve anything, it's just the easy way out.

 

I understood Retros words more as honoring peoples decision to not to want to see such content, whatever the reason may be and thats fine.

But if you take the discussion to the other side of the spectrum, then I just see it as an lazy excuse.

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