phennexion

Skill Transfer Rate.. Sucks? (Poll)

Does the skill transfer rate suck? (poll)  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the skill transfer rate suck?

    • Yes
    • No
    • I don't play on Jackal but I want to voice my opinion.


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53.63 WS on Jackal, it's slower skillgain on Jackal than freedom, and ...

[09:07:16] Weapon smithing increased by 4.0049 to 26.0049

 

This whole "non-coc, non-sb, blah blah" conversion is total crap. If devs want to retain players they really need to fix this algorithm.

 

Don't give me the "if you want skill you should play on Freedom" crap. Freedom is boring and the main reason most of us quit Wurm to begin with. Jackal was supposed to be the reason to bring us back.

Edited by phennexion

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I gained more body stats in 2 days on freedom than by actively playing on jackal for almost 2 months (got body stats to almost 40). Skins are bad, mob ai is bad, terrain is bad, skill transfer is bad, jackal beacons are even more boring than rifts and there's like 500 of them. Grind is as hard as on freedom in some cases and the fighting skill didnt even transfer. Whats the point of jackal then? To get players to burn out and stop playing wurm? All I can say is that jackal is very disappointing in pretty much every aspect of it.

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4 hours ago, phennexion said:

Don't give me the "if you want skill you should play on Freedom" crap. Freedom is boring and the main reason most of us quit Wurm to begin with. Jackal was supposed to be the reason to bring us back.

"I'll agree" if you actually had a reasoning anywhere on that line.. but I still miss your point.. could you dumb that down and provide an actual explanation of your thought process?

Is it better to create a meta server with 1:1 or better skill-gains.. where players will go just to get skills to transfer to freedom in the end.. that will result in a ghost main server.. for which you still grind to get skill on.. in the end.. 🤔

 

3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

368553096869183490.png?v=1

Almost a fan of the RolfKappaHD.. but unsure if the wurm community is ready to handle such humor.

 

 

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It's not designed to be faster skilling on Jackal than freedom, I don't think that's ever going to be the case.

 

That said, there will likely be a lot of tweaking before round 2 regarding skills, changing our counter on jackal to accomodate coc and sleep bonus is one of them. Increasing skillgain on Jackal may be another. 

 

 

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If everyone is disappointed after round 1, who's gonna play round 2?

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6 minutes ago, Vomusu said:

If everyone is disappointed after round 1, who's gonna play round 2?

 

Sounds like they've already wrote off round 1, and it's only 3 months in...

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

It's not designed to be faster skilling on Jackal than freedom, I don't think that's ever going to be the case.

probably that will be the "fail" 6months and wipeout...

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the initial post on jackal did say "skills will be transferred at 1/3 rate" which was subsequently edited to "skills will be transferred at a reduced rate".   Granted, 1/3 is crazy high, but the skills I got transferred on my alt  (I cant tell exactly how much  on my main character since it must have hit when I logged on this morning) seem a tad low.

Edited by thicket
mistake

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It was never one third, I don't recall making that mistake. 

 

I know I did say the skill system was the WO system which I did change as that was not the case. 

 

It's not based on your jackal skill at all. 

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1 hour ago, phennexion said:

 

Sounds like they've already wrote off round 1, and it's only 3 months in...

It's more that the changes are on a foundational level and cannot be retroactive. So we need to sit down and work out how we can improve the next edition and what steps we will take to get there, major changes will likely take a month or two anyways.

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2 hours ago, Vomusu said:

If everyone is disappointed after round 1, who's gonna play round 2?

Players who like to play games and beat challenges.

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When I logged onto freedom I got some skill ticks, but only in a handful of skills.

 

Example, I got foraging skill but not botanizing, I got pick ax and digging but not shovel saw sickle rake or many other things.

 

was there a cap on the number of skills that transfered over or are some just missing?

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9 hours ago, Finnn said:

Players who like to play games and beat challenges.

 

So 10-20 people compared to 100+ in the beginning -  most of which quit jackal,  and some even quit wurm due to burnout,  low reward and bugs. Now its just a handful of people that have to destroy hundreds of beacons,  i think its jus a matter of time untill they quit too. 

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2 hours ago, Vomusu said:

 

So 10-20 people compared to 100+ in the beginning -  most of which quit jackal,  and some even quit wurm due to burnout,  low reward and bugs. Now its just a handful of people that have to destroy hundreds of beacons,  i think its jus a matter of time untill they quit too. 

Who's to yet say steam kids won't be allowed on jackal? Who's to say next jackal run offers more fun than you can handle?

We wait, we see, speculating and stitching rainy clouds isn't the best way to spend your time, is it?

If you didn't like something on jackal - go comment on the topics for feedback.. let these things be polished or fixed if they have to be..

While freedom is kind of locked with the long history of the cluster.. jackal's dynamics offer endless ways to change, build up on the idea.. bashing isn't doing anybody good.

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I really enjoyed the first 2-4 weeks and the challenge that Jackal provided during this time. After that, it's settled into a grind, after seeing the first iteration of skill transfers that were bugged and like 1%, I stopped playing to see what would happen. I had the expectation that I could have fun playing on a new server, and have my time compensated - honestly I thought it would be a 1:1 ratio, where grinding one hour on Jackal would be about the same as grinding for an hour on Freedom. We need to pay for premium to get on the server, we lose all our gears, affinities, all our property that we make, instead we get skins and get to keep the skills we make, sounded perfectly fair to me. It takes the same amount of time to grind, I just don't have to do it in an insanely boring tedium like it is on freedom servers, with Jackal you have more challenges, which inevitably even at 1:1 timewise would make it slower, but spice it up so much more that I would play after a 4 year hiatus.

I was even looking forward to the second iteration even if they just restarted with a different map - before I saw the skill transfer rate. Basically right now it's a complete waste of time to build your character at all, everything goes away, and the consolation prize is more a slap in the face, my main probably put in over 15 days playtime, 70fs, 50ws, all I'm getting is a skin out of it, so I thought I would get a nice chunk of WS, which I find mind numbing to do on freedom, not to mention my deed finally decayed after 3 years of just keeping it up for nothing. Any time spent on Jackal, should be spent going for points, anything else, a complete waste of time.

I love the playstyle of Jackal, but the packrat in me needs to be satisfied. I need to be able to keep some stuff (stuff including skills.), why make Jackal such a waste of time? I want to play on a server with a lot of untouched wilderness, where everyone's not running around in drake sets and running over everything. I thought Jackal would just be an alternative, brilliant. I think it would be cool if we could keep affinities, maybe pick one item, we get all these cool rare items, it seems sad they will all just disappear. If not on freedom, then maybe on another cluster, where all characters go after each iteration, maybe even make it PvP. I thought the Jackal server was going to be our "Ladder" league, where we would all start fresh, and keep most of our work afterwards like in other games. We keep pretty much nothing though, I'm not sure I would even be interested in a 50% transfer rate.

I was completely addicted for a month, getting that bed up and finding a pelt that first week, that part of wurm is the most fun for me, then striking it out, and getting up housing in the middle of a beast infested mountainside, having to be on your toes every second, that's awesome. What comes next though, is the grind, it was still engrossing, but the skill transfer rate totally kills any incentive to continue putting in the time to make a "Godly character", at this point, my character is where it is, 70fs, 50 body, it's good enough to get Jackal points, that's all I'm going to spend time on from this point. During the second iteration, there's no way in hell I'm grinding those skills back, knowing I will get just about nothing in return and I'm not going after points so I would very likely bow out next round. Plus you guys got rid of earning silvers from the trader, there's really no point in playing now. I will just get points for any skins I would want and that's all. I'm guessing skins are not even that expensive if one wanted to buy them as well.


TL;DNR: Jackal is fun, but the incentive to play is not there, it's basically a trial server that you need to pay to play on.

Edited by Maina
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Since we are basicly beta testing the Jackal server can we atleast get the title: "Beta Male" at the end of it ?:)

 

I am only sticking around because the mission progress is in mid 80's and i am curious about the fortress thing (inb4 the fortress is not even made and will get a: Congratulations for clearing the beacons to 100% please be patient as we work on creating  the fortress"

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1 hour ago, Cipacadrinho said:

(inb4 the fortress is not even made and will get a: Congratulations for clearing the beacons to 100% please be patient as we work on creating  the fortress"

 

Somewhere, in the middle of Jackal, sits a small mischievous bag...

 

None.jpg

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2 hours ago, Flubb said:

 

Somewhere, in the middle of Jackal, sits a small mischievous bag...

 

None.jpg

 

Yes! Is there to collect all our tears:)

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On 11/15/2019 at 7:57 PM, Finnn said:

Players who like to play games and beat challenges.

Yup.

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:59 PM, Cipacadrinho said:

Since we are basicly beta testing the Jackal server can we atleast get the title: "Beta Male" at the end of it ?:)

 

I am only sticking around because the mission progress is in mid 80's and i am curious about the fortress thing (inb4 the fortress is not even made and will get a: Congratulations for clearing the beacons to 100% please be patient as we work on creating  the fortress"

So what do you think of it now?

 

On 11/16/2019 at 12:40 PM, tamat said:

probably that will be the "fail" 6months and wipeout...

yes? :3

The skill transfer sucks yes but the main point was to try out something new, Should the skill transfer be increased? yes to like 70-80% or something still make it less viable then freedom but not a big fu but as has been stated it will most likely be different from this round so i hope for a future where that is the case 

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I think skillgain could go one of two ways

1) Faster skillgain by far on Jackal - current transfer. 

This would mean that you reach higher skills faster with a small amount transferring, more payoff considering less time needed to be invested

2) current amount of skillgain - Higher transfer

This would require still effort being put into grinding on Jackal, which has its pros and cons. It slows down growth to a more natural level but also makes the early game regrinding skills each time. Higher transfer would make it more worthwhile but you also face the chance of burnout. 

 

We'll be doing a long internal postmortem after this all to identify areas of improvement, it may be a while before round 2 comes up as theres plenty that needs work. 

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49 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I think skillgain could go one of two ways

1) Faster skillgain by far on Jackal - current transfer. 

This would mean that you reach higher skills faster with a small amount transferring, more payoff considering less time needed to be invested

2) current amount of skillgain - Higher transfer

This would require still effort being put into grinding on Jackal, which has its pros and cons. It slows down growth to a more natural level but also makes the early game regrinding skills each time. Higher transfer would make it more worthwhile but you also face the chance of burnout. 

 

We'll be doing a long internal postmortem after this all to identify areas of improvement, it may be a while before round 2 comes up as theres plenty that needs work. 

My 2 cents on that
1. Faster skill gain to a certain skill say 60-70 afterwards drop down to current level of gains- current transfer
2. Nothing much to change here really

Reason for 1's change is that a lot of people where complaining about ws being slow and certain other skills yet some skill where insanely quick so a buff for the slow ones up to 60-70 skill would negate the weeks of heavy grind just to reach 50 ws vs say 90 mining or wc or whatever
To me i think jackal was good as it is even without skill transfer but what got people angry was the "hey we will get skills transferred over even if its a part of it" and then it was so lackluster and the lackluster part is what got them angry if it was made clear for round 2 as to what kind of percentage would transfer or what ever calculation you want to use and display then people can say from the start "this is worth it" or "this isnt worth it" and wont make people as angry and focus more on either enjoying jackal content for the content or not doing so all together instead of going nuts at 6+ hours a day in hopes that their effort will amount to something and getting 0.13 in a skill back

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2 hours ago, wipeout said:

So what do you think of it now?

Will have to get home and log in first, but the fact that you cannot take anything from Jackal ruins the classic loot appeal from a dungeon type of event.

 

I will defo come and see it maybe try to kill something around there but i don't think anyone expected like a raid dungeon with dynamic combat since the get go people came to jackal for different reasons.

 

In my book if Blaca is happy about it we should all be since he worked the hardest for it.

 

Will maybe take a harder look at it to have an informed opinion when i suggest changes for the future iterations but  the transfer skill rate killed this round for me like 1 month ago.

 

Would rather go baby pout on freedom grinding fs and chan at the same time. All i need is an altar and a sacrificial knife:) (I may be able to perform circumcisions too but i lack the test subjects... say.. since you already beta testing the jackal server wanna be my subjects too?.. Waht is that? What for?.... well for nothin:) but atleast i wont charge you a monthly subscription to my circumcision service)

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I think skillgain could go one of two ways

1) Faster skillgain by far on Jackal - current transfer. 

This would mean that you reach higher skills faster with a small amount transferring, more payoff considering less time needed to be invested

2) current amount of skillgain - Higher transfer

This would require still effort being put into grinding on Jackal, which has its pros and cons. It slows down growth to a more natural level but also makes the early game regrinding skills each time. Higher transfer would make it more worthwhile but you also face the chance of burnout. 

 

We'll be doing a long internal postmortem after this all to identify areas of improvement, it may be a while before round 2 comes up as theres plenty that needs work. 

 

 

No 1 will definately work with a shorter time span tho.

 

Make it last like 6 weeks and people will treat it like a 2-3 weeks impalong where you imp one another and gain skill to 90 tehn we all get drunk and go zerg the ogre in the mid of the map.

 

Big downside: being alot shorter it means more load on the dev team to come up with a new map and end event.

 

No 2 should be still 6 months but the big downside is taht people will be able to buff the stats on their freedom priests faster and then god forbid... try to pvp :)

 

L.E. Another interesting reward would be if you can prestige your character based on your jackal skillpoints like:

 

If you grind 3-4 milion skill points on jackal you can prestige your toon so that it gets 10% less damage on freedom then next time 10% more xp on freeedom next time 10% less damage on items and so on so you can make it one prestige type/jackal or you can let people choose from a list or make it have to spend a certain ammount of skillpoints to buy this various prestige buffs.

 

Or you could make it even more straight forward: spend 1mil jackal skill points to buy 1% str of a certain buff you select from a list.

 

As the lore for it can say: Because of your valiant efforts on Jackal, your  deity bestows upon you the ability to acquire new powers but because is a difficult process to improve stupid you will lose x amount of skill points during it :)

 

And on Freedom you make a consolidated buff called "Scars of Jackal" and just have all of the possible aquirable buffs show at 0% on mouseover and as you buy them they update by 1% on individual ones or have it not even show if the buffs are 0% all around.

 

Another neat trick would be to be able to select a certain Freedom skill to improve only. So all the skill points you get on Jackal will not transfer to their skill but get funneled into a single freedom skill that the player has chosen and have to spend 1000 jackal points to switch to another and 500 to disable it and have skills go to their respective ones on Freedom. Sort of a skill focus ability.

 

What is the point of that? Well, say you want to grind natural substances on Freedom but is tedious and would rather go mine woodcut fight on jackal and have the explore new land and fight new foes fun and when you come back you get all those skills you got there funnel into the natural substance skill on Freedom so you feel like you had alot of fun and helped the jackal war effort while you circumvented the actual grind on that pesky skill on freedom. How many vets would love that? Tons i bet!:) How many ppl would use that for meditation skill? How many would use that for weaponsmithing? Tons i bet!

 

How many ppl would use that for pray skill to hit the 70 needed for that journal mission? And instead of having to pray spam for months watching netflix they can just go experience Jackal and the fighting and the exploring while having all the points transfer into it?

 

And even the people that do not enjoy exploring and fighting could come to jackal and do the particular skills they like to grind like build crazy houses or build boats and still have the points go back to freedom into a skill they need but they do not enjoy grinding it.

 

And can use the code that exists for choosing your affinity as the rewards for Picking Up Speed journal mission to be able to select the skill you want the skill points funneled into.

Edited by Cipacadrinho

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