Recommended Posts

I'm sorta tepid on the idea of banning RMT. I can see upsides and downsides, I feel like a lot of issues raised with it are pretty excessive.

If RMT was removed from the game, I'd like to see the Wurm Store at least change silver prices to be in line with what players offered. 1s to 1 Euro is a nice figure.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not done a RMT a single time since I play Wurm, neither as a buyer nor as a seller. I have enough silver, but not so much that I would need to cash it, and no desires other than my yearly sub I could fulfill with RL money only. I don't even think about selling my account (or that of my priest).  But I would feel uncomfortable with a ban. There is item, even account trafficking in every major game, steam accounts are traded too, though it is strictly forbidden by Valve. I even met groups of people living off computer games' virtual asset trafficking.

 

The problem with black markets is that they attract fraud and crime of any sort. As to steam, I consider it Valve's problem mainly, ok, and that of steam WO. But I would dislike to be forced onto steam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see both sides, but im not your standard coin extracting merchant. I say yes, ban RMT. Thoe it is currently an integral part of the flow of money in wurm and there will likely be saturation of coin and a fall in silver sales from CC. It will eventually level out. I've never really liked the idea of people playing wurming solely for extracting the coin. But in certain situations its actually a passable income for some. In terms of character sales, this could still be done i think, but would likely have to be limited to an exchange for ingame goods, IE not cash as many other games do to comply keeping the transfer to in game assets for in game assets. 

  • Like 1
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not mind if RMT goes. But I agree with Madnath, make silver on the official store cheaper then. And hooking up with the Steam market might be interesting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, platinumteef said:

 

1 question 1 comment

 

1. could we have not gotten this sooner, i've had to replace my eyeballs irl at least once per two winter cycles ty looks much better

2. will these hitching posts be able to be used underground? if not can you please add that functionality, i don't like leaving my cave, or could we get some alternative for underground dwellings

They can be used underground.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I would support the removal of RMT the maintain a unified environment I can also understand the reluctance to do this. In the event that you do end up with two sets of servers my only request would be able to transfer characters into the Steam environment, since it would seem inevitable to me that this is where the future is going to be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Retrograde said:

It'll be going live this update with a slightly buffed transfer rate. 

 

The amount that transfers is not based on your jackal level, as it does not take coc nor sleep bonus into account, and you get jackal points for skills gained as well. 

 

 

I have not noticed any skill transfer nor Jackal point increase. Should skill gain before this update have incurred any skill transfer or Jackal points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Galatyn said:

 

I have not noticed any skill transfer nor Jackal point increase. Should skill gain before this update have incurred any skill transfer or Jackal points?

The update has not gone live. 

 

When the update goes live the launcher will be updated with patch notes. Any new launcher or graphics update is NOT a server update. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, kochinac said:

Спасибо за разъяснение, и я надеюсь, что вам удастся убедиться, что у нас есть как минимум RMT за пределами Steam. Это не просто таблетка, которую можно проглотить, это таблетка, которую я, вероятно, не буду глотать. Не поймите меня неправильно, у меня очень хорошо оплачиваемая работа программиста по стандартам моей страны, и я не использую Wurm, чтобы зарабатывать деньги, но приятно иметь возможность превратить ваш игровой избыток в RL-деньги (я купил свой новый игровой компьютер в этом году как это). И зная, что я могу превратить мои долгосрочные инвестиции в вурм в наличные деньги, это то, что заставляет меня работать в долгосрочной перспективе. Steam market не будет для меня хорошим решением, так как мне не нужно покупать другие игры, единственной вещью, в которой я был и хочу играть последние 5 лет, был Вурм ...

На данный момент, как и многие другие, возможно, по другим причинам, мне уже все равно, продолжу я играть или нет. Я посмотрю, как обстоят дела со Steam, и это будет зависеть от этого.

PS С нетерпением жду этих приколов, давно жду их

I subscribe to every word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am simple man. I make simple point:

 

Wurm needs Steam to survive. Steam does not like RMT. Wurm breaks up with RMT sleeps with Steam now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Finnn said:

halloween costume contest or anything like that on the horizon?

 

There is a fashion show with Emoo at this one, check events tab.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yaaaahhh, It's back! But alas, a typo already! I believe you meant Valerie Worldwide.(I am incredibly sorry but I had to do it.)

Those visual improvements are looking schmicko (that's Aussie slang for... yeah not entirely sure), and I can't wait for Halloween, oooOOOOoo! Good to know about the Steam news, too. Thanks for the well-rounded info drop. I know a lot of people appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, atazs said:

I haven't touched WO since 2014 been playing Unlimited since it came out, so don't worry about me. 

I had over 250+ days ingame played on WO, way before you even heard about this game my friend 

 

I'm not trying to attack you. I just have my own opinion that happens to disagree with yours. Let's leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Madnath said:

I'm sorta tepid on the idea of banning RMT. I can see upsides and downsides, I feel like a lot of issues raised with it are pretty excessive.

If RMT was removed from the game, I'd like to see the Wurm Store at least change silver prices to be in line with what players offered. 1s to 1 Euro is a nice figure.

 

+1 This is a great idea because most of the issue around RMT, at least for me stems from the cost of converting EUR->My country's currency. If the Wurm Store offered silver at this ratio (the same as what players are offering), I would dump all of my money into silver from the store. Furthermore, to make things even better, if users were to buy larger packages of silver (x amount of gold), the pricing could be further adjusted to 1s to 0.9 Euro. Some players do this already.

 

It sounds to me like account sales and items for sale for EUR are the main issue for most people who want it banned. By offering silver according to Madnath's suggestion, there is no need to buy items for EUR anymore because the store would be cheap enough to buy silver from to pay for those items in-game. As for account sales, perhaps it's a "compromise" for those others who buy accounts that they could live with.

 

Edited by Neville

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Sindusk said:

 

Steam doesn't allow RMT and that includes EVE Online. This also includes CS:GO because all money is handled through the steam wallet. I contacted Steam a while ago specifically about this issue if Wurm were to come to steam: Steam Support Response

 

The whole policy revolves around cash flow going into Steam and not coming out. For example, if people could sell their games in their library to other people, then Steam would lose out on a sale from the store. If you buy a skin on CS:GO, you get Steam Wallet money from the other person which cannot be extracted to real world money (unless you break terms, which does happen). You can use it to buy other games on their platform, but nowhere else - this keeps the money in the Steam ecosystem.

 

In the case of Wurm, you can add a method to buy silver in-game, then allow people to use that silver to purchase items from other player. Cash flow goes through steam -> game/player, and cannot be reversed. This would include allowing players to purchase silver directly from other players using real money.

 

All that aside, we can bring it back to EVE Online. Basically the policy is that they don't allow RMT. You can buy PLEX and sell it for player ISK in game. You can also use ISK to buy in-game PLEX, but it's not allowed to turn that PLEX into real world money. It's against terms to do RMT in EVE, and they can ban you for it. However, the difference is if they will ban you for it. Their enforcement of RMT rules is lax and they only do as much as they need to. I imagine that the same will apply to the Steam release of Wurm. They will have to outline that it would be against the rules to do real world trading. They wouldn't allow players to post WTS and WTB threads here on the forums. However, they probably will not enforce it with a heavy hand even when the rule is in place.

 

So what's the best case scenario? The existing servers get connected to Steam and the terms change to support that. Forum WTB/WTS threads all get archived and a new forum is presented with new rules that align to only trading for in-game currency. The only time that the rules are enforced is if someone breaking them causes problems (such as fraud).

 

Interesting stuff.  So does this mean that CC would no longer be able to sell silver direct from their own site?  They'd have to sell it through Steam (maybe only for the steam version)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hitching post sounds really cool and interesting. 

 

I've not been in the game yet but how do you make a hitching post?  Planks, nails, shafts and rope?  How much carpentry to make?

 

Like the look of the new winter graphics. I do like the winter season on wurm. Is good how the terrain and trees change with the seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say get rid of RMT if it stands in the way. Being able to sell characters is something the game could certainly do without as veteran characters would then finally start to disappear when their players stop playing. That would be a huge improvement to the game.

 

As for silver sales, right now the resale of silver directly competes with the Wurm Shop. Take the resale of silver out of the picture and more silver will be bought from the shop instead, so I think it would be a good idea to combine that with a drop in the cost of silver. Say to 1 euro for 1 silver, or 0.9 euro for 1 silver. Then people who use RMT to buy silver won't notice a difference, while people who buy silver from the Shop see a slight reduction in their expenses. Then there are the few people who actively sell silver. They can now use that silver in other ways, like buying stuff from other players which they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the size of their deeds, etc. So overall a win win.

 

So I don't see any problem with getting rid of RMT, especially as the silver price could then be decreased as the sale of silver through the official shop should go up from removing RMT.

 

It's also pretty obvious that if RMT isn't removed, then the servers won't be connected. In that case the WO servers are assured to steadily bleed to death player wise, as most new players will end up on Steam instead.

 

If I had to choose between dead servers or killing RMT, then I'd choose killing RMT over killing the servers any time of the day. Seems like a no brainer.

  • Like 2
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

If I had to choose between dead servers or killing RMT, then I'd choose killing RMT over killing the servers any time of the day. Seems like a no brainer.

 

^ this.

 

I am all for RMT, person who is willing to spend €1k+ on a toon to have an easy start is likely to spend on upkeep and other things as well so RMT can be good in some circumstances for the company but on the other hand, there are probably people who buy a toon as an investment to produce something using that toon's skills and get their money back from other players so it's hard to judge how many players who bought their toons spend more because they can play doing what they like without the necessary grind. RMT allows people with some spending power who don't enjoy the grind to play the game as well, thus spending more. 

 

I bought Kawopij my self, if it wasn't for that i would probably be long time gone because i hit the wall of grind on Locath on all skills i'm interested in. Fact that i could have bought the toon gave CC few years of money sink which wouldn't be the case if i couldn't buy the toon.

 

It's not all bad, but as Ecrir said, if it's a choice between having players or not - do what needs to be done. 

 

This decision however doesn't have to be made right now. With Steam dedicated servers, rules can be different for them than they are for legacy clusters and this might bring people over to legacy WO from Steam because they can make a few pennies on this side of the fence.

 

After the Steam go-live, few months down the road, we'll all see which way it goes and then an informed decision can be made. For now we are only guessing what will happen.

 

Silver prices on website: The price was increased to cover the taxes which in Sweden are quite high i believe. Silver used to be 1s/1€ in web shop but if the company has to pay high tax on it (not sure of the exact number), they had to increase the price. Understandably. (Could have moved the HQ to Cayman Islands :-P)

With Steam, the requirement might be that silver purchases have to go through Steam wallet which would mean another 30% of "tax" on top of what CC/AB are paying right now so i'm skeptical about dropping the silver price and selling it on Steam at the same time. I hope i'm wrong here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Locath said:

Silver prices on website: The price was increased to cover the taxes which in Sweden are quite high i believe. Silver used to be 1s/1€ in web shop but if the company has to pay high tax on it (not sure of the exact number), they had to increase the price. Understandably. (Could have moved the HQ to Cayman Islands :-P)

With Steam, the requirement might be that silver purchases have to go through Steam wallet which would mean another 30% of "tax" on top of what CC/AB are paying right now so i'm skeptical about dropping the silver price and selling it on Steam at the same time. I hope i'm wrong here.

 

Steam will take care of the transaction costs etc. though so that's not all extra expense. That's not enough to make up the entire difference but it helps. (Xsolla takes a 5% cut while the Paypal cut can be up to ~7% on smaller transactions.)

 

Perhaps more important though, their volume will go up because people won't buy silver from other players anymore. Even if the profit per silver decreases, the total profit may end up way up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

Steam will take care of the transaction costs etc. though so that's not all extra expense.

 

How do you mean? If company sells something for €1, steam takes €0.30 and company still has to pay the tax in their country (on the remaining €0.70). Steam purchases aren't exempt from taxation at whatever rate applies in the country? Am i understanding this wrong?

Steam pays their tax on the €0.30 which they earned in whatever country they are registered i think. Nothing remains untaxed.

 

If i get this right, CC/AB gets €0.70 on this transaction and they pay some tax on this. I'm not sure which tax applies here but for example personal income tax in Sweden is at 60%+ if i read it right. They have some of the highest taxes out there.

Effectively making a sale of 1 silver for €1 an income of about 30 cents, depending on the actual tax rate being applied in this scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

How do you mean? If company sells something for €1, steam takes €0.30 and company still has to pay the tax in their country (on the remaining €0.70). Steam purchases aren't exempt from taxation at whatever rate applies in the country? Am i understanding this wrong?

Steam pays their tax on the €0.30 which they earned in whatever country they are registered i think. Nothing remains untaxed.

 

If i get this right, CC/AB gets €0.70 on this transaction and they pay some tax on this. I'm not sure which tax applies here but for example personal income tax in Sweden is at 60%+ if i read it right. They have some of the highest taxes out there.

Effectively making a sale of 1 silver for €1 an income of about 30 cents, depending on the actual tax rate being applied in this scenario.

 

If you sell something for €1 on steam and somebody from a country with 20% VAT buys it, then first the VAT is deducted, leaving €0.83. Then Steam takes it's 30%, leaving €0.58 for CC/AB. Steam thus took €0.25, and uses that money to pay for the transaction costs which were involved in the transaction (costs which CC/AB currently pays).

 

Note that this is a EU example, where VAT tax is included in the pricing, it might not apply outside of the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

If you sell something for €1 on steam and somebody from a country with 20% VAT buys it, then first the VAT is deducted, leaving €0.83. Then Steam takes it's 30%, leaving €0.58 for CC/AB.

 

So CC/AB doesn't pay the income tax in Sweden on the €0.58 if they sell through steam? I'm no financial expert but it doesn't seem like something any country would allow. You made €0.58 in whatever way and pay no tax in country? What's the reason behind tax haven countries exist then? 

 

Not trying to get into an argument here, just trying to understand this.

 

If i produce a brick in Ireland and sell it in Mozambique, i still have to pay the income tax over here. 

 

Edit:

 

I think i know where i'm getting confused, VAT =/= income tax.

Edited by Locath
edit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

So CC/AB doesn't pay the income tax in Sweden on the €0.58 if they sell through steam? I'm no financial expert but it doesn't seem like something any country would allow. You made €0.58 in whatever way and pay no tax in country? What's the reason behind tax haven countries exist then? 

 

Not trying to get into an argument here, just trying to understand this.

 

If i produce a brick in Ireland and sell it in Mozambique, i still have to pay the income tax over here. 

 

Edit:

 

I think i know where i'm getting confused, VAT =/= income tax.

 

I think CC/AB only pays taxes over their profits. So the €0.58 is revenue. Then you deduct all the expenses from the total revenue and you get the profit, that's then taxes. Income tax is something which individual employees would have to pay over their own income. The main usage of tax haven countries is to greatly reduce those profit related taxes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Locath said:

 

How do you mean? If company sells something for €1, steam takes €0.30 and company still has to pay the tax in their country (on the remaining €0.70). Steam purchases aren't exempt from taxation at whatever rate applies in the country? Am i understanding this wrong?

Steam pays their tax on the €0.30 which they earned in whatever country they are registered i think. Nothing remains untaxed.

 

If i get this right, CC/AB gets €0.70 on this transaction and they pay some tax on this. I'm not sure which tax applies here but for example personal income tax in Sweden is at 60%+ if i read it right. They have some of the highest taxes out there.

Effectively making a sale of 1 silver for €1 an income of about 30 cents, depending on the actual tax rate being applied in this scenario.

 

The transaction costs are fees for the payment provider. This is separate from taxes. For example if you buy E10 worth of silver via Xsolla, they only pass E9.50 to CC/AB. Paypal takes a bit more than that. My point was that while Steam takes a 30% cut, they are also the payment provider, and their payment provider costs are paid from that cut. So compared to the current situation they aren't fully 30% more expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.