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As_I_Decay

The final nail in the coffin

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8 hours ago, Madnath said:

That then removes a lot of freedom that the current system offers. Let's use a real world example...

Zethreal is currently on a break from the game due to real life taking over. Under this system, he'd have no choice but to pay every month for premium for a game which he cannot even play, unlike in the current system where he can put X amount of money into the deed and know it'll last for the amount of time he's given.

It also does not fix "all" of my issues. You fail to address owning multiple deeds and the possibility of alt abuse.

Not saying your idea is all bad, but it's equally as flawed as what we have now. If it's "better" or not is totally subjective.

I think you are missing part of what was said let me put it differently

Account being premium grants the bonus of having a set amount of money being added to upkeep per month for the sake of this explanation lets do the 1s thing a month so while zethreal is premium he does not pay for 1s of his total upkeep per month and if his deed costs 1s a month it is free
Now the moment his accounts prem runs out he has to pay full upkeep cost like it does right now
No other changes would be made

This means the following
Deed founding cost and deed tile purchase cost remain the same
You still pay for upkeep over 1s

What i mentioned does by no means make it free to make or keep deeds that are giant so what alt abuse? the fact that you have to prem up an account for 2 months and pay 16 euro for a 2 month free deed?
It would be cheaper to pay the upkeep cost then to keep an alt premium to pay for it
As for the owning multiple deeds being an issue? is it an issue now? no so why would it be an issue if we all get to have a single deed where 1s a month is added to upkeep

This idea i have posted up before a few times and was pushing for this to be part of steam's release to entice people to purchase premium but considering that the issue of this topic has shown up multiple times this year this idea would actually do wonders for people in this situation

So i do not see how this is a flawed idea that would help prevent things like this as 1 it does not promote alt spam for free deeds to clog up servers as deed founding cost and upkeep past 1s are still there and 2 it requires an account to be prem to gain the benefit of 1s a month added to upkeep but hey if you are someone crazy enough to pay for 20 alts then by all means have your 20 "Free" deeds even though they are costing you way more every 2 months then spending 40s every 2 months on all those deeds but you do you at that point

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Sounds like a value addition to shop purchased premium rather than a blanket thing. 

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 Not sure this the place to continue this discussion, but... 

 

1st 1s upkeep included with premium + additional premium citizens add to upkeep (addl 1s) and on and on - else you will further encourage hibernation and one man deeds.  

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8 minutes ago, wipeout said:

-big block of blah-

Changing what you're offering to make a comeback to what I say isn't presenting a good argument. The fact you can't ever imagine alt abuse being an issue when there's posts about it daily on the forums is pretty telling.

First prem on accounts with silver costs only 2s. It would be very easy to abuse this. If you remove that ability from that 2s prem you then alienate a large portion of new players using it to get a start off on the cheap, which nearly nullifies what you're wanting to do. I can easily imagine people having their deed shrink after their prem runs out while they're on a break to find their perimeter decorations, walls and structures decayed or destroyed and items taken.

As for multiple deeds being an issue, I never said it's an issue, but you shouldn't give an easy incentive to just have a deed on every server. Even if you allowed an account to only have one free deed total, that's then a deed for their priest alt if they have one. And if they're in a deed with friends, that's a deed for another person. And if they have an alt? Boom, that's 4 deeds. Not only is that a lot of money leaving Kingdom hands and staying in the circulating economy, but it's a lot of land in a lot of places being taken up either as just basic storage facilities or homes away from home.

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3 hours ago, Madnath said:

Even if you allowed an account to only have one free deed total, that's then a deed for their priest alt if they have one.

 

So if someone has multiple premium toons, that's their prerogative.  

 

3 hours ago, Madnath said:

Changing what you're offering to make a comeback to what I say isn't presenting a good argument.

 

Well it's pretty hard to present an argument to someone who is constantly critical of any suggestion for improvement because "oh, it can be abused."  You contribute to the conversation bringing up ways something can be abused, and I'm not knocking you for that.  But we aren't having an "argument", so stop treating it as such.

 

3 hours ago, Madnath said:

I can easily imagine people having their deed shrink after their prem runs out while they're on a break to find their perimeter decorations, walls and structures decayed or destroyed and items taken.

 

And how is this any different from current deeds disbanding to upkeep due to the owner's inactivity and negligence?

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Madnath said:

Changing what you're offering to make a comeback to what I say isn't presenting a good argument. The fact you can't ever imagine alt abuse being an issue when there's posts about it daily on the forums is pretty telling.

First prem on accounts with silver costs only 2s. It would be very easy to abuse this. If you remove that ability from that 2s prem you then alienate a large portion of new players using it to get a start off on the cheap, which nearly nullifies what you're wanting to do. I can easily imagine people having their deed shrink after their prem runs out while they're on a break to find their perimeter decorations, walls and structures decayed or destroyed and items taken.

As for multiple deeds being an issue, I never said it's an issue, but you shouldn't give an easy incentive to just have a deed on every server. Even if you allowed an account to only have one free deed total, that's then a deed for their priest alt if they have one. And if they're in a deed with friends, that's a deed for another person. And if they have an alt? Boom, that's 4 deeds. Not only is that a lot of money leaving Kingdom hands and staying in the circulating economy, but it's a lot of land in a lot of places being taken up either as just basic storage facilities or homes away from home.


The 2nd post was what i have stated before in the past here on the forums ingame and in pms with people and on various discords heck even on twitch streams originally i just did not feel like writing it all out again but considering you want to be so negative and nitpick at it i figured fine il write up more about it as clearly you want to take it as "look at this poorly thought out idea that cant work wurm should not change its fine as it is" so i wrote more of it out my first ever time writing up about that idea was a long wall of text that no one bothered to read because it had too much info in it with too many cases of what if alt abuse what if this what if that just like you are doing now i addressed a lot of those points before and because of it that post gets largely ignored

No matter how you make it alts will always be a thing you could tie it to 1 free silver towards upkeep per email and they will just make more emails and yes yes i do mean not giving it to the 2s first time prem people it should be part of supporting the game by store bought premium time not ingame recycling of silver its about getting a reward in return for supporting the game something more then just the 1 sleep powder per month(which is where my idea was originally posted for as a "hey this could be a nice addon for the steam wurm release as part of prem to make it more inciting to get people to go prem")

Right now you have multiple deeds so you being so caught up with "oh they will just have free deeds i wanna cry" approach is just stupid it by no means makes it totally free to have deeds but what it does is that if you buy premium from the store(or in the original idea's case from steam) you should be given a 1s addon to your deed to cover the first silver cost of your deed for every month you are premium that this is such a hard idea to accept as decent or good is surprising but i guess you just want good things to stay from wurm unless you are 1 of those vultures who does exactly what prompted me to post this idea here and you dont want your free loot to stop being a thing

The point here is i had personally heard of 5 of these stories from those people this year turns out i now know of 7 after talking to a few more people this is a issue for a game with a dying playerbase where attempt after attempt to revive it is either met with dev resistance to change or half assed attempts(jackal) that are rushed before completion we have a problem here in wurm where a small group of idiots want to pray on every possible deed out there and steal everything that isnt tied down upon deed drop be it due to weirdness or forgetfulness or otherwise other causes

I myself last year had my deli deed drop earlier then expected(it was a 1s deed last time i had gone to deli with what i thought was 4 months of upkeep left) and the moment it dropped i was pmed and by the time i got over there someone had already broken in with a battering ram and was in the process of trying to load everything that wasnt in my house and had already slaughtered and butchered my few animals i kept there that they could reach
My solution? contacted a gm to figure out why my deed dropped and turns out something weird and fishy went on and i was given the copper that should have been in upkeep but wasnt due to what ever caused that weirdness
Was it the best outcome? no but i didnt care much about that deed and most valuable things where gone already

But imagine this you are 100% sure your deed has 6 months of upkeep left and you believe that the mailing system will warn you if your deed does drop down to low upkeep and suddenly you are told a month later that your deed disbanded and upon arrival me and a group of 5-10 others cleaned up everything and left dozens of shacks in place preventing you from redeeding over it and we made sure to imp the walls to high ql just to spite you(not that we would tell you that)
Oh and its better to have a deed shrink to default size or 1s a month size once your upkeep runs out but you are prem then loosing the deed completely if this system was in place and it was made known to everyone then people would probably design their deeds to have a central storage location that is within that 1s radius but thats just me
You would be pissed off and this is exactly the story i keep hearing and asidecay's case is the reason we got the emails but that somehow broke and in that time it was broken it happened again and a vulture came around and stole all the stuff of the person who lost their deed



So is it really such a bad thing to have a 1s added to upkeep each month of store brought premium?  and it wont alienate those who use the 2s to get prem first month things as any new player coming into a game would understand that there such a difference between ingame bought and store bought would be a thing and its normal if you really think about it in a game design way if you offer both services to make 1 of those 2(the one that nets you profit) more enticing then the other by giving the one that makes you money some extra no cost bonuses

 

6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Sounds like a value addition to shop purchased premium rather than a blanket thing. 

That was my original idea when i first mentioned this when you talked and asked about ways to make steam prem more enticing

 

Edited by wipeout

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Just for the record. 

 

We have no intention of making deeds free, Deed upkeep is the largest money sink and an integral part of the economy. 

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Make deeds free from decay. Buying for repairing is not the best  ....

 

Have Fun!

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36 minutes ago, khatanka said:

Make deeds free from decay. Buying for repairing is not the best  ....

 

Have Fun!

Added bonus to this:

 

More loot from dead land.

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Deed upkeep is the largest   only money sink and an integral part of the economy. 

 

FTFY

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Just for the record. 

 

We have no intention of making deeds free, Deed upkeep is the largest money sink and an integral part of the economy. 


At a minimum, 6g a month on Indy and 9g a month on Xan.  
 

I have no idea what other feature pulls out that much miron in Wurm on a consistent basis.  
 

If that is the largest, then it must be a smaller group than thought paying for premium through coin.   

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19 hours ago, Wargasm said:

So if someone has multiple premium toons, that's their prerogative.  

 

Well it's pretty hard to present an argument to someone who is constantly critical of any suggestion for improvement because "oh, it can be abused."  You contribute to the conversation bringing up ways something can be abused, and I'm not knocking you for that.  But we aren't having an "argument", so stop treating it as such.

 

And how is this any different from current deeds disbanding to upkeep due to the owner's inactivity and negligence?

 

Not saying running multiple toons is a problem but you can't just skirt the issues about it under the rug because critical thinking about basic issues that would appear from this suggestion being implemented is beyond thought for you. And fyi, we finally get emails now about deed upkeep running low and running the risk of disbanding. But for the record I think if you can't remember to feed your deed upkeep when it's the biggest money sink in the game, it's on you. I'm not defending the vultures who feed on disbanded places, but it's your responsibility and one of the biggest responsibilities the average player in the game will get. If you fail to pay your rent, your mortgage or whatever in real life, you don't get to pick blame onto someone or something else because it's up to you, it's what you sign up for. 

 

If your argument is just sitting there saying "you're just picking up flaws in our system" then maybe making suggestions isn't for you. This is a public forum, if you can't handle ideas put forward being subject to scrutiny or having issues picked out, then maybe it's not for you. God knows if we couldn't hold devs to account for what they do when they add content, the state of the game and forum would be a lot different.

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On 12/25/2019 at 2:22 AM, wipeout said:

Its simple the idea i proposed before deeds are free up to a certain size while mayor is prem above that size upkeep is required once upkeep runs out deed shrinks down to max free size deed it can be at and disbands in a week upon prem loss
Cost of making a deed and increasing size still remains

Now you fixed all your issues right there

 

16 hours ago, wipeout said:

So is it really such a bad thing to have a 1s added to upkeep each month of store brought premium? 

 

These are not the same thing.

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On 12/16/2019 at 8:18 AM, igSnarkin said:

Since is a non starter of a thread bad PR  was resolved after intial post and player didnt redeed anyway its gone way ywa off track and really should be closed instead of bumped by posts.

Nice try!!

 

Seems like an easy fix: prevent buildings from being planned or built on tiles with planted objects. This will only affect the looters, who, if they really want some object, can deed and loot once the buildings have fallen.

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3 hours ago, jackjones said:

Nice try!!

 

Seems like an easy fix: prevent buildings from being planned or built on tiles with planted objects. This will only affect the looters, who, if they really want some object, can deed and loot once the buildings have fallen.

There is already a way to prevent people from looting things. Its called deeding. Currently I have over a year of upkeep on my deeds without any issues.

 

There are multiple ways to get notified of deeds dropping: Twitter alerts and emails are one way, while checking your deed monthly is another.  I have a pet peeve when people dont log into a game for months on end, their deeds drop, and then they complain about.theft.

 

Deed it or loose it has always been the motto in this game. If you have a large deed and dont want to pay the upkeep because you cant afford it, then reduce the size of your upkeep. You can fire your guards and drop 12 silver on your deed to protect it for a year if you want to walk away for a while.

 

However, its much cheaper and easier to blame the game developers for their lack of foresight for not preventing issues caused by one's lack of dedication or preparation. Deed dropping and our things growing legs and walking off is no one's fault but our own.

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