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Cipacadrinho

Skill level small buffs on character only

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Hi!

 

One of the biggest draw back to starting a new toon nowadays is the fact that you dont feel strong/rewarded for grinding your skills because there are many veteran characters that can pump high ql items and enchants at dump prices.

 

So was thinking it could feel a bit more rewarding if by grinding you skill that toon could receive small buffs for it like:

 

Channeling 50 - 5% less shatter chance, channeling 70 - 5% stronger cast

 

Repairing 50 - 5% less damage taken by items in your inv, repairing 70 - Auto-repairs anything in inventory that goes past 0.50 damage:) ( i wish!) just make it 10% less damage taken by items

 

Weaponsmithing 50 - Every failed action has a 1% chance to spam a buffoon that laughs histerically and yells: poop! i like poop! Weaponsmithing 70 - Every failed action has a 1% chance to rare the item

 

Animal husbandry 50 -10% less chance to have the mother die at birth Animal husbandry 70 have a chance to get twins! 

 

X weapon skill - at 50 get like 10% less damage taken by the weap at 70 get like 10% more power from the casts on the weapon

 

You get the ideea.

 

I feel like this way you won't anger the veteran toons since they will get the buffs too.

 

The new players will feel like they are improving even tho they are buying their tools from vets.

 

Overall bit by bit your wurm life could improve significantly by collecting all these small buffs.

 

Will have to make them show up just in the spell effects tho not in the buffs bar because they have the potential to be way too many.  

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I can't tell if you're joking or not.

Also I don't really like the sound of most of these things. Especially to auto-repair. -1

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All that this does is buff old toons and increase the value of old accounts even more it does nothing for new accounts only old ones

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Wurm is hardest at the start, a newbie has  no skill no knowledge.

So then he finds out from local or ca_help he can buy super tools and weapon for next to nothing.

Does that then proceeds to use said tools to skill up some skill they like.

After a while they realise their grind is but a drop in the ocean as there are players with alot higher skill than theirs so they cannot compete with those and get frustrated and quit.

So there has to be a system that rewards skilling up your toon other than just selling the products of said skill.

And the old toons should get those perks too since they should not be penalised for playing the game a long time and being good at it.

Sure it sucks that most of the players that skilled those toons are now gone but nothing will change if we ###### about it so why do it?

These gold diggers will swoop in on the steam server anyway spam Trade with wtb sleep poweders and referals and outgrind the newbies and corner the markets there too.

And there will be rich newbies that will get a taste on Steam server, like the game, then splash some cash to buy an OP toon on freedom because they dont feel like grinding so atm is a buyers market: buy lowp now then sell high to the newbies.

And is gonna be funny to have the steam server in a chokehold by these gold farmers while freedom cluster will finally have a more relaxed real economy since they wont bother to try and sell here when they have a gold mine on steam.

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1 hour ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 

So there has to be a system that rewards skilling up your toon other than just selling the products of said skill.

 

You made this statement. Can you prove it?

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Just now, armyskin said:

You made this statement. Can you prove it?

 

 

Yes i can: please tell me why you play this game.

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1 hour ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 

 

Yes i can: please tell me why you play this game.

Not for anything I need added to it. Seven years ago we dressed as Peter pan and stood on horses. I still play. Now prove that an incentive is needed.

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8 minutes ago, armyskin said:

Not for anything I need added to it. Seven years ago we dressed as Peter pan and stood on horses. I still play. Now prove that an incentive is needed.

 

How many people played the game 7 years ago and how many are now? You can play the game for your reasons, is a sandbox, any style of play is valid but in order to have the game stay alive there has to be enough players to sustain the operating expenses and the hired devs and make a profit.

 

So the game is not going to retain enough players to achieve that if the people that come in feel weak and lost and are bombarded with: "hey bruh want sum 90ql rake 90coc is best in town bruh" sure they will buy it but it wont mean anything to them and stop playing in 1 week and forget they even tried wurm in a month.

 

So you can play the hippie wurmian all you like, like i said is a valid style in a sandbox, but hippie don't pay the wurm bills. 

 

So please help think of a solution that would help retain new players without upsetting the old ones.

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2 hours ago, Cipacadrinho said:

please help think of a solution

You still have yet to justify your suggestion as solving anything. 

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So overall make "vets" MORE powerful.. but give a tiny boost to noobs?

Doesn't make any sense.. to be envy by the 'best' and give them even more ...

If you want to get 1 skill high.. you could in a month or 2...

If you want to get several.. you'll have to get serious about it...

 

Pretty much how others have done it so far.

W.. Wh.. Wha.. why.. what do you mean by ... that 1st sentence... all start at level 1... and it just doesn't take that much to get to 90, at all... maybe WS is a .... but with the right knowledge you could powerlevel that also.. so.. if you have hard time grinding anything.. you're probably just missing the know-how.. how to do it. #IMO

 

Boosting 'vets' with bonuses.. just creates an abyss between you and them.. as they just get another edge or several with each bonus that you feel so far and hard to reach.

 

Quote

Repairing 50 - 5% less damage taken by items in your inv, repairing 70 - Auto-repairs anything in inventory that goes past 0.50 damage:) ( i wish!) just make it 10% less damage taken by items

I like the passive bonus.... such things could help all.. and could be a reason to grind higher skills, and prem for longer to chase the grinds, etc... 

in the end.. nobody cares if your own item takes -10% less damage... you'll use it or not... and working to get that random 1 benefit.. makes you play the game.. 1 thing you pay and play for...

DAT ALONE gets a LIKE

 

Quote

Weaponsmithing 50 - Every failed action has a 1% chance to spam a buffoon that laughs histerically and yells: poop! i like poop! Weaponsmithing 70 - Every failed action has a 1% chance to rare the item

I'm uninstalling at the sound of po*p. Rarity idea is bullsh.. and a killer of another meta mechanic... that just creates a new meta..(get ql70 skill, use ql1 tools... all day)

 

etc.. kind of discouraged to read all ideas.. I'll just leave the repairing like and say other do or DON'T make any sense to be in online game.

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You are both missing the point.

 

These suggestions are ment to retain new players that do not know much about the game and should help them have yet another goal to work towards and feel like their toon is getting stronger as they keep grinding the skills on them.

 

Instead you look at them from your personal view of experienced plaeyrs and not try to image how it would be from the perspective of a new player.

 

These are my suggestions to the devs and not to you. Like them or hate them tweak them or let them inspire you either way i don't have to justify them to you.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 i don't have to justify them

 

 

I fixed that for you. Also been on jackal for a bit. My highest skill is at 59. I still may not be able to ride a horse yet. That seems like it would be something that rewards my work when I can.

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I'll start with suggesting ideas for boosters/buffs of the skills at 50/70/80/90/+... but keeping the edge of the end-game grind...

You need to have a reason to go higher... else we'd all go to 50 and stop there, get bored and go play tetris instead. Come up with a reason for yourself to want higher skills, not to have it easy and comfortable at low level.

Does that make any sense?

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9 hours ago, Finnn said:

I'll start with suggesting ideas for boosters/buffs of the skills at 50/70/80/90/+... but keeping the edge of the end-game grind...

You need to have a reason to go higher... else we'd all go to 50 and stop there, get bored and go play tetris instead. Come up with a reason for yourself to want higher skills, not to have it easy and comfortable at low level.

Does that make any sense?

 

It does make sense.

 

But here we are talking about ways of gaining and retaining new players.

 

On a platform that bombards them with bundles and new games every day.

 

So our best hope is for Wurm to be included in bundles and to show up when people look for sandbox, survival, minecraft type of games.

 

And maybe 10% of those people will decide to make Wurm their long term game.

 

And i want to think of things to suggest that the devs can put in the game that will not make those people decide that after they build a house and breed some cows the ammount of effort they would have to put in developing their toon will be worth the effort.

 

Because normally you would feel you are getting stronger because you can improve the tools and weapons and armor you are using but in the current reality of the wurm economy you cannot feel as strong because you can use 1s to buy full set of tools enchanted to levels you can only hope to reach in few years.

 

We are talking about people that will maybe be able to play 2-3h/day on average.

 

So how do you make them want to stay by looking forward to completing a goal within a decent time frame while having said addition to the game apply to every toon in the game.

 

That is the challenge.

 

And i mean the devs did try to make things more spicy even for the veteran players that are bored of grinding. 

 

So they made jackal where they were supposed to go hunt.

 

But there are strong mobs there so you have to grind to get strong enough or have a zerg of 20 newb toons trying to kill a troll every week-end. Is fun but inefficient. People will go once or twice then be like: will wait 1 month then spend 50c to buy a coc weapon some other guy grinded for.

 

So you end up making a new server that is proposing grind to vet players bored of grinding in order to kill some mobs and get a sword with a different handle. For 6 months:)

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10 hours ago, Cipacadrinho said:

These suggestions are ment to retain new players that do not know much about the game and should help them have yet another goal to work towards and feel like their toon is getting stronger as they keep grinding the skills on them.

 

There's plenty of incentive towards that. The effects of improving skill and tools is just more gradual and takes a retrospect to where you have once been. You start mining at a speed of up to 30 seconds per action. Eventually you realize it's down to 15 from when you started, and some day even down to 2,7s once you really pushed your skill and tools to the highest degree. Some crafting recipes are also effectively or directly available only at X level.

These boosts seem just pretty redundant, even within your own premise.

 

9 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

Because normally you would feel you are getting stronger because you can improve the tools and weapons and armor you are using but in the current reality of the wurm economy you cannot feel as strong because you can use 1s to buy full set of tools enchanted to levels you can only hope to reach in few years.

 

Hyperbole doesn't help your case, but that aside, of course you'll feel miserable if you measure yourself up to the standards of the top-heavy, bloated carcass of a market. I bought a tool a very few times and only thought "Oh, this is convenient, I can get my own stuff done faster/more efficiently like this". I bought it in the awareness that I'm potentially cutting myself short of having had to work for it myself, but justified it with being able to focus more on my own personal projects better with it.

Reaching high end gear is not a goal, it's a means to an end. One that you decide yourself. If you're looking to have high end gear for the sake of having high end gear, any other standard looting MMO that doesn't allow trade is a better fit.

I know you don't want to hear that, but that's the unfortunate reality of Wurm, and I doubt it'll change. For instance, Jackal is, contrary to what you say, not for veterans per se. Not sure who it is for really, but it's certainly not the end game content that you'd have to skip your characters personal development for by buying in. PvP is a different beast in that regard, but it has its own diseases. If it's still alive to begin with.

Edited by Flubb

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3 minutes ago, Flubb said:

 

There's plenty of incentive towards that. The effects of improving skill and tools is just more gradual and takes a retrospect to where you have once been. You start mining at a speed of up to 30 seconds per action. Eventually you realize it's down to 15 from when you started, and some day even down to 2,7s once you really pushed your skill and tools to the highest degree. Some crafting recipes are also effectively or directly available only at X level.

These boosts seem just pretty redundant, even within your own premise.

 

 

Again, is a mistake to look at things just from Wurm's perspective because sure you can spend 2 weeks and mine 2-3s faster and 1 month later can load crates into your cart which does feel rewarding, but:

 

Wurm has to compete with other games in the genre. So how can the devs put stuff in Wurm that will make players of the genre and/or of those games decide to leave those and come and remain Wurm players.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

Wurm has to compete with other games in the genre. So how can the devs put stuff in Wurm that will make players of the genre and/or of those games decide to leave those and come and remain Wurm players.

 

You keep veering off into the obvious points that player retention is important, but make no explanation why making redundant reward systems helps with that.

What "other perspective" is to be taken then? What exactly does Wurm compete with other games of the sandbox genre on that your suggestion aims to address? Pleasing those with a short attention span that need a level up screen telling them what they can do better now?

Actually, Wurm could stand to be more verbose and informative about the skills effects, but that's not even your suggestion. Taking it on its own, Wurm in its current state would just give you those bonuses without telling even telling you.

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43 minutes ago, Flubb said:

 

You keep veering off into the obvious points that player retention is important, but make no explanation why making redundant reward systems helps with that.

 

You mean how every game out there has an xp collection system and rewards people with perks and stats gradually? Is this the redundant reward sytem you speak of? You are an EA loot box fan?:)

 

I made a suggestion that in my opinion the game could use a bit more rewards along the way of grinding a skill in order to provide a more rewarding feeling to those new or old players that might start working on a skill because they like the small perks they could get from it.

 

But the goal is to make sure the game does not die.

 

So here is where Wurm could position itself, in my opinion, in order to ensure a healthy ammount of player base and even be able to pay for a full dev team and technical updates as far as changing engine completely to something up to date:

 

Wurm should feel like the more complex and mature continuation, the natural progression, for Minecraft.

 

Alot more people played it especially in their youth and now as they mature get a job and a family they could potentially be drawn to spend 10-12h/week in wurm while paying for a subcription, a deed, etc.

 

Even if Wurm taps into 1% of that potential the future of the game could be quite bright.

 

But how do you draw in and maintain that player base? The casual. 

Edited by Cipacadrinho

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You asked who was here from 7 years ago? Well i was here from even before that i still have 18 of my friends from back then playing my friends list has always been small of the 68 total on my list 43 are still playing of everyone i have now most have been playing 4+ years

Something you might not realize and a lot of other newer players dont is that a lot of us came to wurm and wurm was hell but it caught our hearts we grew to love it we had spiders that would kill entire groups of players dont even get started on a troll(even jackal trolls arent anywhere near as bad)

Most of us play wurm as its a unique game that gives us the freedom we want from a game like this and gives us the ability to do what we want, wurm doesnt need incentives to grind it needs incentives to stick around so rewarding players with great gameplay over buffs
Things like fixing user annoyances issues with aspects of the game that with a small tweak can be fixed not adding buffs upon buffs that make higher skilled characters that much more useful to have as all that that will do is make people push for buying accounts

Id much rather see newbies enjoying the game then being concerned about having to reach a high number in order to feel like they can fully enjoy the game
Imagine you join a game and the first thing you see is that at 50 repair you get a buff that makes you take less damage on items(you already do this on higher item skill for example pickaxe and mining) to me that would come across as a "oh they want my money before i can fully enjoy this game i see money first game later"


The game doesnt need more skill restricted bonuses like sotg but more gameplay intensives after all most of us play to build our own little place and leave a mark on the land of wurm for years to come from a small well developed deed to a giant village spanning dozens of people and their extra deeds not many people play this game for reaching 95 or 99 or 100 in a skill
Granted we all do want to reach that 100 skill in something its not the main reason why we wanna play this amazing game full of flaws and adventure :3

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48 minutes ago, wipeout said:

You asked who was here from 7 years ago? Well i was here from even before that i still have 18 of my friends from back then playing my friends list has always been small of the 68 total on my list 43 are still playing of everyone i have now most have been playing 4+ years

Something you might not realize and a lot of other newer players dont is that a lot of us came to wurm and wurm was hell but it caught our hearts we grew to love it we had spiders that would kill entire groups of players dont even get started on a troll(even jackal trolls arent anywhere near as bad)

Most of us play wurm as its a unique game that gives us the freedom we want from a game like this and gives us the ability to do what we want, wurm doesnt need incentives to grind it needs incentives to stick around so rewarding players with great gameplay over buffs
Things like fixing user annoyances issues with aspects of the game that with a small tweak can be fixed not adding buffs upon buffs that make higher skilled characters that much more useful to have as all that that will do is make people push for buying accounts

Id much rather see newbies enjoying the game then being concerned about having to reach a high number in order to feel like they can fully enjoy the game
Imagine you join a game and the first thing you see is that at 50 repair you get a buff that makes you take less damage on items(you already do this on higher item skill for example pickaxe and mining) to me that would come across as a "oh they want my money before i can fully enjoy this game i see money first game later"


The game doesnt need more skill restricted bonuses like sotg but more gameplay intensives after all most of us play to build our own little place and leave a mark on the land of wurm for years to come from a small well developed deed to a giant village spanning dozens of people and their extra deeds not many people play this game for reaching 95 or 99 or 100 in a skill
Granted we all do want to reach that 100 skill in something its not the main reason why we wanna play this amazing game full of flaws and adventure :3

 

 

I never said Wurm is not lovable in it's current state.

 

But the reality of it is that Wurm has to change in acomodate casuals a bit more in order to survive.

 

So is a matter of accept that your perfect game must change or one day not be able to log in anymore because the shop is perma closed. The way i see it the first is the lesser evil.

 

Steam launch will not be a miracle  player base bump for more than few weeks from launch if the steam reviews are mostly negative.

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9 minutes ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 

 

I never said Wurm is not lovable in it's current state.

 

But the reality of it is that Wurm has to change in acomodate casuals a bit more in order to survive.

 

So is a matter of accept that your perfect game must change or one day not be able to log in anymore because the shop is perma closed. The way i see it the first is the lesser evil.

 

Steam launch will not be a miracle  player base bump for more than few weeks from launch if the steam reviews are mostly negative.

Oh im all with you on that trust me im one to speak up for that constantly the only thing is rewarding buffs for mid game and late game wont really help players out early on when wurm needs to catch its players and suck them in now a buff to creation quality in the first 7 days worth of playtime or a higher percentage buff for 1 week that slowly grows less as the players skill goes up more till its cancelled out would make the early "god i hate making bricks i fail so often" less painful

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On 10/16/2019 at 8:41 AM, Cipacadrinho said:

On a platform that bombards them with bundles and new games every day.

 

So our best hope is for Wurm to be included in bundles and to show up when people look for sandbox, survival, minecraft type of games.

 

And maybe 10% of those people will decide to make Wurm their long term game.

 

And i want to think of things to suggest that the devs can put in the game that will not make those people decide that after they build a house and breed some cows the ammount of effort they would have to put in developing their toon will be worth the effort.

 

Because normally you would feel you are getting stronger because you can improve the tools and weapons and armor you are using but in the current reality of the wurm economy you cannot feel as strong because you can use 1s to buy full set of tools enchanted to levels you can only hope to reach in few years.

 

We are talking about people that will maybe be able to play 2-3h/day on average.

 

So how do you make them want to stay by looking forward to completing a goal within a decent time frame while having said addition to the game apply to every toon in the game.

 

That is the challenge.

 

And i mean the devs did try to make things more spicy even for the veteran players that are bored of grinding. 

 

So they made jackal where they were supposed to go hunt.

 

But there are strong mobs there so you have to grind to get strong enough or have a zerg of 20 newb toons trying to kill a troll every week-end. Is fun but inefficient. People will go once or twice then be like: will wait 1 month then spend 50c to buy a coc weapon some other guy grinded for.

 

So you end up making a new server that is proposing grind to vet players bored of grinding in order to kill some mobs and get a sword with a different handle. For 6 months:)

"platform"
Currently, no platform.. once WO goes to steam market.. new kids could just jump the wagon and try the game.

"bundles"

Hopefully.. marketing area of CC or w/e "new overlords" never thinks like you.. throw the game in the bundles and *pray* somebody likes it. (no marketing, "hope and pray, it will be alright", this is not solving anything, terrible "advertising" or rather.. lack of any)

 

Don't think you can buy a full set of tools for 1-2s, maybe 1-2 sets like carpentry/blacksmithing.. with at best ~80coc/botd casts from somebody hoarding them for a while.. and wanting to clear the webbed closet from them.

Which in the long term is a real blessing for you, compared to starting with ql10-30 tools and doing it on your own without spending anything for such(that is if new players knew better).

 

'years to get to 70-90 skill' HA!.. No.. you can get to 70 in a week, without doing anything special, 90.. in 2 to 4 weeks is a sure thing.. with no more than 2-4hours a day, just some time after work/school, get in.. spend your time wisely and you'll have it in no time. That is ONE skill though.. if you want to catch up to the kids with 2-3-5-10-20 90x skills, spend the time, just like they did. Oh, right they did spend more time when they worked on their skills by the way.. high spellpowers and QL were harder to get before.. game never had this many options to boost your performance and to optimize the gains and time spent. #LearnToPlay #newPlayersLackInformationHowToGrindEfficiently

 

"2-3hours a day" lets see, somebody had a 100 skill with the words.. that he used just the 1-4hours a day, every day for 2 years if I remember right.. just sleep bonus that comes from the offline time in bed and spending some time every day... reaching 100...

Do you know how many people have 100 skills? Not that many.. that's "for the nut cases", nobody expects that number to grow, if you feel like it, join the ranks.

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All of them are fair points that would have been valid if the game still had enough players to keep running.

 

Right now is getting hairy.

 

So is all about gaining and retaining new blood or have nothing.

 

How many times do  i have to repeat this point?

 

A completely new player will not have the knowledge and gear at his disposal to do 70 skill in a week and probably will move on to other game by the time he gets 70 mining to be able to have a good lump nevermind 70 woodcutting.

 

So tell me about ways to avoid this from happening. Explaining to me how a veteran could shred thru skill levels based on game knowledge and available tools/boosts does nothing for gaining and retaining new players.

 

L.E. But let me indulge you and talk a bit about how veteran players shred skills to 70.

 

So it turns out the staff asked ppl when they had the most fun and probably most said: oh when i was starting out (ofc is called novelty) so the staff went: oh ok.. you liked fresh start?.. uhm.. heeeeeeerreeee's Jackal! Enjoy!

 

And what hapened? 150 ppl on average at launch but after a month all your vet players turned tail and now we have 25 on average and half of them are probably alts.

 

I mean sure you can say: well they are bored of grinding which is a fair point.. but what makes you then think that all those steam people will all enjoy grinding and just truck on for weeks and months without quitting?

 

Having short to medium rewards along the way is not a fix all solution but might help retain some of the new players and motivate some of the old players to skill up stuff they did not care about before which translates on more people playing the game and participating in the economy and such.

Edited by Cipacadrinho

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Jackal was a good "test", if right lessons from it are learned.. it could be some quite fun place to do all that is not so possible on the main cluster for various reasons.

 

Players didn't try jackal to experience starting from level 1 and sing songs around the fire.

 

" but what makes you then think that all those steam people will all enjoy grinding and just truck on for weeks and months without quitting?"

Progression in wurm is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

Economy of wurm is tricky, it's not that hard to rule in it, but you have to like that play-styles.

Adding bonuses to 50-70 skills gives the same to the higher skilled players.. and wait for it... they'll want their own boost at 90, maybe 100 too, where is your edge at 50-70 compared to the better boosts at higher levels?

You claim that 50-70 is 'hard to reach' at the same time you want bonuses for these levels for the new players to retain them?? Completely new player with right setup could get a 50/+ in few hours.

 

Skill isn't everything, if it was we'd all be grinding 24/7 for the next number.(And reach fatigue limits, funny but "90%+" do not ever reach that..  or know that it's a mechanic.. "wonder why"..)

Plenty of the oldest players enjoy the game and don't care about their digging/mining or some other skill that could come handy but it's not a reason to grind for it.

I had below 50 digging for years.. eventually pressed it one day to 60-70 before a break.. returned and kept working on it, currently at 98.something.. could easily 99.x it and keep going for 100, doesn't mean I want to or that I should, it's one of the fastest skills to level up.

 

Easy mode? You do not have to work as hard as you had to.. it's easier to get higher QL/enchant for less coins now, easier to get higher ql materials with rare/supreme tool + gathering rune or imbue, prices of all that have dropped also.

 

I agree about 1 thing with your idea.. adding bonuses to the 50/70/90 could be a good thing to be a reason for all players to reach the next milestone, but it shouldn't be easy mode for new players alone. Giving all a reason to grind and get better is a good enough reason to work for it.

 

Reasoning.. I worked on some skills to have the ability to do things when I want or have to.

 

70 mining, I got mine with probably the stupidest way possible, watched series while I had around 5 minutes Leveling action on probably 120+ slope tiles in a mine... leveling it down gives one of the worst gains.. being rocks.. another terrible idea.. but the long action timer and action count, plus the possibility to do 1 action every 5 minutes with my stamina... while watching tv series let me have it easy from 45 to 70 mining.

(Fun part?.. The jump from 45 to 70 is probably only few hours to grind mining, instead of the week/+ of watching series and mining rocks like that.)

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