Samool

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The cooking was actually intended to only include the base recipes at launch, the json format was to make it easy for Wu servers to add their own. 

 

After the outcry and the delays we made the decision to allow it, upon launch as our initial plans to delay it were by about the amount the whole update itself was delayed more or less. 

 

So it's a bit of a sticky one where the initial plan was not going to Wu at launch, but with the Wu delays it ended up going with launch. I apologise for the confusion and feeling misled 

 

With this we have a lot of work planned ahead of us, it won't be a quick nor easy road, I myself have written quite a few parts of the design treatments and I'm keen to see them come to the game, I fully intend on sticking to ogwo, and playing my days away there (totally not because I can't think of a new character name) 

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9 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The cooking was actually intended to only include the base recipes at launch, the json format was to make it easy for Wu servers to add their own. 

 

After the outcry and the delays we made the decision to allow it, upon launch as our initial plans to delay it were by about the amount the whole update itself was delayed more or less. 

 

So it's a bit of a sticky one where the initial plan was not going to Wu at launch, but with the Wu delays it ended up going with launch. I apologise for the confusion and feeling misled 

 

With this we have a lot of work planned ahead of us, it won't be a quick nor easy road, I myself have written quite a few parts of the design treatments and I'm keen to see them come to the game, I fully intend on sticking to ogwo, and playing my days away there (totally not because I can't think of a new character name) 

What you mean you cant think of a new character name what about achmed or how ever it was written on steam at the time

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Honestly, @Samoolis probably my new favorite staff members. Make a thread, replies once, and lets the community discuss it. Retro, I would like to define you as "passionate" but you don't have to reply and argue to everyone's post and comment. 

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

As for Wu, it is most definitely not the same, Wu is a spin off game with a vastly different target market, which is the far more casual gamer and one who wants a smaller tight knit group to play on. We don't know what we will be doing with it yet, but most content updates will be wo only, any decision regarding putting it into maintenance mode or critical bugfixes only will be announced seperately if the decision is made. 

 

Ok, I'm finding this more than a little bit disturbing. Especially this part.  ".....any decision regarding putting it into maintenance mode or critical bugfixes only will be announced seperately if the decision is made."

 

This implies that it has at least been discussed, is being considered, and that no final decision has been made yet.  The tin hat conclusion is that the decision has already been made and nobody's willing to fully own up to it just yet.  The earliest comments since all this Steam stuff started being selectively trickled out to us were all implying "Oh nothing to worry about, No WU isn't just the red headed stepchild we wish we could be rid of gracefully."  Each successive comment since then has been trending more & more in the direction that that is indeed the case, and it now appears that WU will indeed eventually be kicked to the curb like the drunk who's overstayed his welcome at the bar now that the amusement factor has worn off.

 

Very disturbing indeed.

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6 hours ago, wipeout said:

@Retrogradehonest suggestion to pass along to which ever person is in charge of forum dev work

Can we get a popup notification any time the forum rules section is updated so that we can read and click i accept to it where it shows the new content in a section above the entire rule set?

You mean like the new post in the Forum Rules thread any time there is a change, like there is already? 😛

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Please keep the debate respectful, without personal attacks.  If you can't find a mature, sensible way to say your piece, don't say it.

 

Pandalet

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8 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I hope you can at least include the assets (scriptings, meshes. textures etc), so that modders can someday try to help Rolf keep his promises.

Might take us years but at least some hope is there.  

Maybe make WU a little more "modder friendly" before kicking us out into the cold.

I don't know what all they would need -- BDew & Sklo & Sindusk &  Coldie and others could speak to that better.   

 

Even with the Humble Bundle keys dispersing into the wild to be resold cheap, I'd bet with 300,000-500,000 "owners" that WU has at least added a couple million dollars to Code Club, and help fund development and keep WO running the past 5 years for =all= of the players playing Wurm regardless of which "branch". 

Now imagine half a mil having a reason to play WO instead /or also/ and buy micro-transactions on company owned servers instead, wild right.

* That number's a rough estimate, src: https://steamspy.com/app/366220

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Posted (edited)

@PandaletPlease excuse if I said something inappropriate, it wasn't meant to be. You didn't name anyone, but if you reacted to anything I said, I will try and weigh my words more carefully.

 

@Jeston Personally, I feel original Wurm Online is definitely good enough in every regard, but yes of course WU server owners are being as creative as they can be, isn't that the whole purpose of releasing WU? And I most certainly do not wish anything bad to happen to WO in any way. My singular point in this debate is to open a dialogue for how to make WU a valuable asset, instead of how many are portraying it as being a burden which has to be carried by the subscribers of WO - because I just don't think that's true, and at least I don't think that it has to be.

Edited by Tenniel

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What about refunds? How many people have refunded WU? Probably thousands if not more. 

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53 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Now imagine half a mil having a reason to play WO instead /or also/ and buy micro-transactions on company owned servers instead, wild right.

* That number's a rough estimate, src: https://steamspy.com/app/366220

 

 

Yes, I remember a more specific number of 320,000 sometime after the first couple months, now it is very general range instead, but even if it was still at 320,000 (it must be higher now), that DID help the entire Wurm community to get millions for development of the game for both WO & WU. So it is not like WU was a terrible business decision by Rolf -- it allowed the game to get through another 5 years even with falling subscribers (and they were falling well before WU was ever announced)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Honestly if we get a couple of hundred premium players I'd still consider it a success,

If I were running the show, I'd consider this your resignation letter.  How can you set the bar so low?  I guess in one way, a couple hundred = doubling the current player base, so percentage wise it is a win?  But no. That is not a success.  Not at all.

 

I really think CC/GC needs to think about revenue & profitability as priority #1, then existing players wants/needs second.  If not, the game is over and there are no players.  If Wurm were not the most maximum awesomeness grindelicious of sandbox games, but still pretty enjoyable, would all the existing players quit?

 

If the WO business model has proven to be a dead end, you really just need to put it in maintenance mode and try something drastically different.  WU was and it pulled in huge numbers in comparison to WO.  Sounds like WU is on the chopping block now and if it isn't worth further development, then maintenance mode it and let the modders keep it going for the next few decades.

 

Go bold CC is digging it's own grave.

Edited by Wurmhole
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19 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

If I were running the show, I'd consider this your resignation letter.  How can you set the bar so low?  I guess in one way, a couple hundred = doubling the current player base, so percentage wise it is a win?  But no. That is not a success.  Not at all.

 

Good thing you don't run the show 🥳

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5 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

You mean like the new post in the Forum Rules thread any time there is a change, like there is already? 😛

yes except now make it be a popup window that pops up if you sign in or go to a new page since the rules have been updated so that there is no way at all to miss subtle changes like that :)

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Posted (edited)
On 10/5/2019 at 6:41 PM, Hawkinson said:

Do you realize that with the inclusion of the steam version of the WO you will kill the current WO?

who will play on old servers when new on Steam? maybe 50 players on 7 servers, even now because of the plans to introduce wO steam, people sell out what's possible, remove deeds and sell accounts.

 

 

 

Is a matter of choosing the lesser evil:

 

Launch on steam with new servers that is aimed to bump up the player base and ensure the longevity of the game while risking that some of the veterans to be displeased an quit or try to make some advertisment with limited resources and hope and pray that there will be enough new people drawn in and retained on a server cluster where their own skills will not matter for years because some of the veterans have the ability to pump 80+ql  items and enchants at dump prices.

 

So they don't launch on steam because they are bored they do it because otherwise the player base will get lower and lower and the game will die. All we need to do is hope the launch is succesfull and that the server merge will happen as soon as possible, probably 1-2 years down the line.

Edited by Cipacadrinho

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18 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

 

With this we have a lot of work planned ahead of us, it won't be a quick nor easy road.

 

Just point us to the beta server test of the new ui and combat system already:0 or that one  is called Jackal:)

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Posted (edited)

Putting WU onto maintenance mode would be understandable if we could actually mod the game properly

The modding API that was promised by Rolf himself almost 5 years is not coming anymore.

You need a java degree to attempt even the most basic mods and even then, it is like pulling teeth with a pair of pliers. And even after all that, only very simple mods are possible that hardly do anything to enchance the game. The devs also refuse to fix the buggy server playercounts, so players are fooled into believing that servers like Sklotopolis and Mythmoor have 100+ players online when in reality its less than 20. Said players then just end up quitting when they meet nobody and nobody talks in chat.

 

Remember when certain drivers were buggy and the game would crash? 
Instead of rolling out a fix, they told us to roll back the drivers. It took them a good 6 months to finally fix this issue.

 

You should be ashamed of yourselves for treating WU like you have and for the lies you have told us, your paying customers.

Edited by nitram20
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Well, I'm coming in late to this post, but congrats Samool and best of luck.  I look forward to what you all have planned.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nitram20 said:

Putting WU onto maintenance mode would be understandable if we could actually mod the game properly

The modding API that was promised by Rolf himself almost 5 years is not coming anymore.

You need a java degree to attempt even the most basic mods and even then, it is like pulling teeth with a pair of pliers. And even after all that, only very simple mods are possible that hardly do anything to enchance the game. The devs also refuse to fix the buggy server playercounts, so players are fooled into believing that servers like Sklotopolis and Mythmoor have 100+ players online when in reality its less than 20. Said players then just end up quitting when they meet nobody and nobody talks in chat.

 

Remember when certain drivers were buggy and the game would crash? 
Instead of rolling out a fix, they told us to roll back the drivers. It took them a good 6 months to finally fix this issue.

 

You should be ashamed of yourselves for treating WU like you have and for the lies you have told us, your paying customers.

Perhaps modding will need some programming skill, and I don't see how it could be done in any other way? But Ago's mod launchers are fantastic, they just are not built into WU, and this makes it very difficult for many players with little understanding of how computers work to install and update mods. There have been a few attempts at compiling installers, but still, it would be better to have a built in mod launcher and installer. The problem all server hosts face is that we can't publish any client content without demanding that all players have the client mod launcher installed. With a built in client mod loader, which loads mods directly from the server, the server hosts would be able to expand Wurm Unlimited without it being, well, so much "Wurm Limited". This is also why withholding client updates from WU is such a punishment, because we can't do much about the client.

 

The online numbers are a bit embarrassing for sure, we've solved that by building in an alt-block, preventing players to login with more than one character at the same time, for each steam id. It has actually been a request from a majority of the players to block alts. So the online numbers we have are real, actual players.

Edited by Tenniel

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put sleep powders in the shop for a decent price not the current 5s and you will make money

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Tenniel said:

Perhaps modding will need some programming skill, and I don't see how it could be done in any other way? But Ago's mod launchers are fantastic, they just are not built into WU, and this makes it very difficult for many players with little understanding of how computers work to install and update mods. There have been a few attempts at compiling installers, but still, it would be better to have a built in mod launcher and installer. The problem all server hosts face is that we can't publish any client content without demanding that all players have the client mod launcher installed. With a built in client mod loader, which loads mods directly from the server, the server hosts would be able to expand Wurm Unlimited without it being, well, so much "Wurm Limited". This is also why withholding client updates from WU is such a punishment, because we can't do much about the client.

 

The online numbers are a bit embarrassing for sure, we've solved that by building in an alt-block, preventing players to login with more than one character at the same time, for each steam id. It has actually been a request from a majority of the players to block alts. So the online numbers we have are real, actual players.

When i personally brought up the playercounts being fakes on a lot of servers the devs replied that it is up to the servers themselves to sort it out. 

 

So essentially they are fine with certain servers artifically boosting player counts to fool new players into playing there or fool anyone looking at the launcher to think that people are actually playing WU. This is borderline scammy and dishonest towards regular players.

There are also plenty of bugs where servers get "ghost players" and alike if the servers arent restarted regularly. For example when a player leaves at the character creation (before they get teleported into the world) 

Edited by atazs

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4 minutes ago, atazs said:

When i personally brought up the playercounts being fakes on a lot of servers the devs replied that it is up to the servers themselves to sort it out. 

 

So essentially they are fine with certain servers artifically boosting player counts to fool new players into playing there or fool anyone looking at the launcher to think that people are actually playing WU. This is borderline scammy and dishonest towards regular players.

There are also plenty of bugs where servers get "ghost players" and alike if the servers arent restarted regularly. For example when a player leaves at the character creation (before they get teleported into the world) 

That's true, we have those "ghosts" sometimes, but can be prevented with a login server or for example a reinforced cave where players have to pick kingdom and then teleport to the kingdom starter place. I think this problem only happens for servers with more than one kingdom, so not very common. It can be solved, it just hasn't been a priority from my part.

 

Online statistics for Wurm Online servers, I don't think there's any alt-checks there either?

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It's dishonest behaviour indeed (faking numbers, not reporting alts as well) , but there's nothing we can actually do about it. At the time of discussion I believe our response was "anything we do to address it can be bypassed quicker than it takes us to implement" because the hosts get the code. 

 

Over the coming months I'd love to go into detail about the planned features before steam wo, including the things I personally worked on, trying my hand at design with the loyalty system, and part of the combat streamlining, I'm excited to see these come in and I'd like to work with you all on making sure it comes out of the gate all guns blazing. 

 

I'm also working on being a little more open about when things are being worked on, with the proviso that it's still up in the air at times, currently we tend to discuss things once 90 percent of the work is done to answer all your questions, but if you want to discuss things earlier it would need to be acknowledged it's likely to change 

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Posted (edited)

Eh slaying raffle lists on Sklotopolis are generated by unique Steam ID's, and we generally pass 80.

 

And I'll speak for myself at least:  Stopping updates to WU isn't gonna inspire me to switch to WO and give CC more money.  If anything, any money thrown at Wurm will be directed toward those putting in the mods I want.  #JustSaying.

Edited by Mordraug
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1 hour ago, atazs said:

When i personally brought up the playercounts being fakes on a lot of servers the devs replied that it is up to the servers themselves to sort it out. 

 

So essentially they are fine with certain servers artifically boosting player counts to fool new players into playing there or fool anyone looking at the launcher to think that people are actually playing WU. This is borderline scammy and dishonest towards regular players.

There are also plenty of bugs where servers get "ghost players" and alike if the servers arent restarted regularly. For example when a player leaves at the character creation (before they get teleported into the world) 

that counts for wo too, many players have 3 or more alts, and most are counted and premium graph so we cant see the real number of players, also probably counting the players that pay prem with silver

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