Samool

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1 minute ago, Sklo:D said:

 

Very easy to say why, Wurm Unlimited has very likely already more unique players than Wurm Online at the moment. So a bit of a panic move. In one of my projects I count about 1000 unique steam ids every month, which should show what Wurm Unlimited really has become the young brother getting a lot more attention and doing a lot better than the old brother.

That's not the case at all. 

 

As rolf stated revenue from Wu is extremely down and with the current major works on wo that won't carry across we now have an issue with merging the code bases. This would be a major work in and of itself and thus we need to evaluate the amount of work needed to do it, and also work out the issues behind running two wurm games on steam with different publishers 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Honestly if we get a couple of hundred premium players I'd still consider it a success

 

Oh wait, does the Wurm team work entirely on a volunteer basis? Or does the average premium player spend waaay more than I thought? Cause otherwise I'm confused about how the math works here. Granted I'm kinda drunk, I may be multiplying wrong or something. 🤔

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Gamethrill does sell Wu for 5.99,but it's theirs to sell at that price so hey

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5 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Gamethrill does sell Wu for 5.99,but it's theirs to sell at that price so hey

 

we all remember

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As per the forum rules discussion of key resellers is forbidden as per steam terms of service. Keep it within the boundaries guys 

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

As per the forum rules discussion of key resellers is forbidden as per steam terms of service. Keep it within the boundaries guys 

Doesn't Gamethrill sells keys then? since you mention it

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Well the neat thing about messing around with not giving updates to a game that's already on steam is that many of the same people who play that game will likely feel compelled to "warn" people about being abandoned etc. I can't think of a better way to kill a product launch before it even starts.

 

Lots of examples of other companies making this mistake when launching a second product on Steam. Most later admit that it had a giant impact on the success of their new product.

 

Please reconsider before you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

~Nappy

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3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

As per the forum rules discussion of key resellers is forbidden as per steam terms of service. Keep it within the boundaries guys 

What? Why? (and we aren't on Steam here so why would steam terms of service apply to this conversation?

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15 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Gamethrill does sell Wu for 5.99,but it's theirs to sell at that price so hey

I got my post deleted for replacing the gamethril with deferent store at difrent price. Very well.

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2 minutes ago, Nappy said:

What? Why? (and we aren't on Steam here so why would steam terms of service apply to this conversation?

content section in the rules i guess that applies to me posting a picture showing that wurm unlimited is sold for 1 dollar a piece even now as to proof to retro that rolfs comment about income from wurm unlimited being down isnt the fault of low amounts of players trying it out but low cost of purchase because of platforms like humble bundle and such offering low prices for these resellers to get their hands on

Anyway below is the forum rule section
 

D ) You may not use the Wurm Online forums to buy, sell, market or otherwise advertise digital asset keys(i.e. Steam keys*), products which are illegal, or products not concerned with Wurm Online.

*The sale of Wurm Unlimited keys is prohibited on all platforms as per Steam policy.

 

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Yeah, pretty hard for WO to make enough profit to even keep it going at those WU discount prices. I am sure they will keep both WO and Steam WO on the subscription basis. Then players can buy a small deed at minimal monthly expense (if any really if they go for some of those coin drop options in game) and expand into a larger one if they feel the need. Maybe they will eventually add in a Cash Shop with a few "uncraftable" items but I can see the negative aspect of this by restricting them from player creation or obtaining in game through certain offerings. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out...

 

=Ayes=

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1 minute ago, Nappy said:

Well the neat thing about messing around with not giving updates to a game that's already on steam is that many of the same people who play that game will likely feel compelled to "warn" people about being abandoned etc. I can't think of a better way to kill a product launch before it even starts.

 

Lots of examples of other companies making this mistake when launching a second product on Steam. Most later admit that it had a giant impact on the success of their new product.

 

Please reconsider before you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

~Nappy

 

If WU is really a separate codebase they likely have little choice at this point: the expense to mirror changes between them, including QA, makes it essentially as costly as maintaining two entirely different games at once without the additional revenue to support it.

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@Retrogradehonest suggestion to pass along to which ever person is in charge of forum dev work

Can we get a popup notification any time the forum rules section is updated so that we can read and click i accept to it where it shows the new content in a section above the entire rule set?

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

 

As for Wu, it is most definitely not the same, Wu is a spin off game with a vastly different target market, which is the far more casual gamer and one who wants a smaller tight knit group to play on

It's always a mistake to try to generalize a vast group of people.

 

Some WU servers have survival mods, start with only a crude knife, crude shovel and a hatchet while others are perma-death meaning if you die you completely start over. There are servers with no compasses, vampires and much harder mobs to kill. Some servers have 1x or even slower speeds.

 

There are also faster grind servers that do more with content to make the game less about watching a number and more about having fun.

 

WU in many ways has advanced far beyond WO. WU servers have experimented with trying new things. Unfortunately WO prefers to keep making foolish mistakes rather then reaching out to these people and finding out how things worked out.

 

I have yet to see a single compelling reason for the new steam product that will make people want to play it. Perhaps the compelling reason will come as product details become more known. If it turns out it's just Wurm on steam then I suspect you are going to get another shock.

 

~Nappy

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Some changes that would probably be better off done-

 

-Raise the non-subscription level cap to 40 from 20,

-Require a subscription to resize a deed over the 5x5 default,

-Make upkeep cost 35-45% more for non-subscriber mayor to keep free players more active adding to population moral.

 

Also would be cool to somehow pay with steam wallet, which could add to the overall amount of people willing to subscribe due to steam cards existing in every store.

Edited by Jeston

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The current WO PvE freedom needs to stay alive.

Perhaps the Steam WO can be a noob server, but there needs to be access to the current WO servers at some point or current WO will die.

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8 minutes ago, Kirtah said:

 

If WU is really a separate codebase they likely have little choice at this point: the expense to mirror changes between them, including QA, makes it essentially as costly as maintaining two entirely different games at once without the additional revenue to support it.

I've worked in software development for years and many of those were working on very complex product suites. If the branching strategy is well thought out then they could likely separate the unique stuff for each platform and have a common stuff for everything that goes to all.

 

Technology can often be used as a way of trying to hide the business directive behind a decision. Besides it's not like we get complete transparency here anyway.

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1 minute ago, Nappy said:

 

If that's the actual rule then it would be nice to see how you posting an image telling people about something that you aren't personally selling is a violation. You aren't selling a key or anything right? If this is true then you aren't advertising your product, not trying to buy it etc. So all you've done is mention an example of a sale from which you don't profit.

 

That makes me think you did not violate the rule as expressed there. That rule would apply to vendors etc who are selling something the way it's written.

Which is probably why i only got my post hidden away instead of a warning given but yes that is how i see it as well i merely showed it really it was a simple list but hey

 

 

1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

Or mentioning third party vendors who do so. Aka advertising

You might want to add that part to the rule section then and by that we cant talk about amazon ever again then so might want to add that to the list as well

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1 minute ago, belacane said:

The current WO PvE freedom needs to stay alive.

Perhaps the Steam WO can be a noob server, but there needs to be access to the current WO servers at some point or current WO will die.


Agreed. Why not just move WO to steam and separate the servers? Let players choose if they want to start on a fresh server, or the old freedom cluster

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If Steam forbids players selling silver-for-real-cash to each other, then I imagine Wurm Store sells a lot more 'official' silver coin even without many other additions.

 

Right now the store cannot compete against players selling silver, which the exception of brand new players being nervous about paying reallife cash to players they don;t know,  and prefering to buy from the official store even if it costs a bit more. Not too many 'brand new players' in WO now though.

 

Since players cannot sell silver for cash in the Steam version, Code Club should make more on silver sales. Still need however better money sinks to get excess coins out of circulation.. 

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42 minutes ago, Nappy said:

I've worked in software development for years and many of those were working on very complex product suites. If the branching strategy is well thought out then they could likely separate the unique stuff for each platform and have a common stuff for everything that goes to all.

 

Technology can often be used as a way of trying to hide the business directive behind a decision. Besides it's not like we get complete transparency here anyway.

I'm also sure that while working in many departments that it's not always perfectly split branches, and as t some point someone needs to cherry pick what is going through and what is not. 

 

Given our decision for most content since last Wu update to be wo only, it makes this task more difficult to do. 

 

This isn't blaming technology, but I think we have been pretty clear about the state of Wu at the moment. Once I'm back from my so called vacation I'll likely arrange a final response regarding wu

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I hope you can at least include the assets (scriptings, meshes. textures etc), so that modders can someday try to help Rolf keep his promises.

Might take us years but at least some hope is there.  

Maybe make WU a little more "modder friendly" before kicking us out into the cold.

I don't know what all they would need -- BDew & Sklo & Sindusk &  Coldie and others could speak to that better.   

 

Even with the Humble Bundle keys dispersing into the wild to be resold cheap, I'd bet with 300,000-500,000 "owners" that WU has at least added a couple million dollars to Code Club, and help fund development and keep WO running the past 5 years for =all= of the players playing Wurm regardless of which "branch".  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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7 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I hope you can at least include the assets (scriptings, meshes. textures etc), so that modders can someday try to help Rolf keep his promises.

 

Might take us years but at least some hope is there.  

 

Maybe make WU a little more "modder friendly" before kicking us out into the cold.

 

I don't know what all they would need -- BDew & Sklo & Sindusk &  Coldie and others could speak to that better.

 

 

 

As a game goes through four years of support and updates statements made prior to the launch sometimes turn out to be made without being aware of how things will be down the road. 

 

I believe rolf made that statement at the time in the desire to see as much of wo come to Wu as possible, but over the years the need to differentiate became very apparent, Wu could add mods but we were stuck with everything we worked on going to servers that weren't seeing income to us (and in certain cases were seeing income go to others). 

 

Things do change, and old statements made may no longer apply, it is the nature of a game being around for so long while still being in development. 

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I get that, I actually do get that.  My problem is less with "things have changed" -- there simply are not enough resource to cover every inch of Wurm, and the only chance for "new" money (which helps everyone) is the new Steam direction. I actually get that and I agree with that.  It's more the games people play, pretending "we never meant that, we never said that."

 

I still remember being lied to (yes, by you) about the cooking update, when devs were going to strip all the cooking recipes out of the WU version in an effort to appease WO players, and you said that was how it was planned a year in advance of the update. Ever since the first dev started putting a cooking update together, a year prior, the plan was never to gve WU the recipebooks. Then when the backlash got too fierce, and all the recipes got put back in, you said "Oh we were always going to give them to you, we always planned to."   It just makes people trust Code Club less. Surely you can see that. Your job is to Code Club and not to the players, and I understand that. If Code Club does not stay healthy, we all go down. Code Club's overall health HAS to come first.

 

 

I am pretty resigned to WU having to stand on its own in the future, but any tools you can give the modding community might make the breakup a lot less acrimonious, and more positive-focused. 

 

WU is finally back up to getting solid good reviews again:

 

Overall Reviews:

Mostly Positive (1,370 reviews) icon_questionmark.png

 

Things do CHANGE. This isn't 2015 anymore.

Hopefully though they can always go in a generally POSITIVE direction, even if there are bumps along the road.

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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