Samool

Full Steam Ahead

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8 hours ago, Samool said:

Whatever happens, the original Wurm Online servers will get the same attention and features the Steam ones will.

Great to have you as the new Production Manager of Wurm Online and confirm this statement once again. I am sure many will continue to play on the current WO servers after a curious jaunt into the new Steam one(s) when it is available. Personally it would be similar to my experience with WU where I played there on and off while always keeping my main account Premium with a few deeds. Steam WO will just be another option for us old timer WO players and no doubt some of the new Steam WO players will want to check out our servers here too. More choices are always good for players and the game so I see a lot to look forward to here with even some QoL changes thrown into the mix.

 

=Ayes=

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2 hours ago, John said:

What type of PvE server is going to be released? Will it be a strict Freedom ruleset where you can not break any laws at all or will it be similar to the JK-H of the old days? Will the Steam PvP server be seperated from the PvE server?

PvE will be freedom based, pvp will be disconnected 

 

1 hour ago, tamat said:

want lots of suggestions? start checking here:
https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/forum/258-unlimited-modding/

Many of those have been checked out, but most mods are aimed around simply making wurm easy mode VS actual quality of life. Rest assured I spent a significant time going through them and talking with modders, some are way op and unsuitable for Wurm, but others have some merit

 

8 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

I'm all for making the move to Steam, but drop the subscription model.  Just deploy it on the WU platform and come up with an alternate form of revenue than the dead subscription model. 

The issue with this is il becomes paid ogwo wo VS some free Wu hybrid. Subscriptions are common in many mmos and allow players to be all on equal footing, we aren't chasing whales or focusing on content that will have people spending on it, we can provide content to all players because they all pay a small amount to keep playing. 

 

Cash shops are great when used well, but I don't see us generating the lost revenue month to month with a cash shop. 

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Just now, Retrograde said:

The issue with this is il becomes paid ogwo wo VS some free Wu hybrid. Subscriptions are common in many mmos and allow players to be all on equal footing, we aren't chasing whales or focusing on content that will have people spending on it, we can provide content to all players because they all pay a small amount to keep playing. 

 

Cash shops are great when used well, but I don't see us generating the lost revenue month to month with a cash shop. 

Nor can I see you Maintaining revenue  without some sort of change to the pricing model. 

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3choov.jpg

 

FIX UI FIX UI FIX UI, MAKE IT EASIER FOR MINECRAFT KIDDOS! YES! You guys are on the right track, thank you.

I just had some of my students testing out WU for a programming modding project in our programming club and they lost interest because of the clunky complex UI.

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so it's either abandon the freedom servers and go on steam where there's fresh life, but with new unknown systems AND no idea about the resident population, where you need to start from scratch, or remain into the dying freedom servers but with all your hard earned high end stuff... mmhhh, i have an idea of what this smells of.
As i like new starts, i may probably wait for the steam release to get back to the game...

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I can't fathom why a game company wouldn't want a cash shop. You want to make money, players want to give you money for cosmetic ######, its literally win win. Imagine if you could buy capes for instance, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that everyone would buy them, no one would want to be seen as being a cape-less noob lol. You could add all sorts of skins for furniture and various things like that, which has the added effect of improving the look of the game. As long as you don't go overboard with it, there is basically no downside.

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

PvE will be freedom based, pvp will be disconnected 

 

Many of those have been checked out, but most mods are aimed around simply making wurm easy mode VS actual quality of life. Rest assured I spent a significant time going through them and talking with modders, some are way op and unsuitable for Wurm, but others have some merit

 

The issue with this is il becomes paid ogwo wo VS some free Wu hybrid. Subscriptions are common in many mmos and allow players to be all on equal footing, we aren't chasing whales or focusing on content that will have people spending on it, we can provide content to all players because they all pay a small amount to keep playing. 

 

Cash shops are great when used well, but I don't see us generating the lost revenue month to month with a cash shop. 


saving this for 6 months or 1 year later or when steamWO fail what happens first

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Any reason why PvP will be disconnected? Having played the original "home" and "wild" servers and a lot of WU servers with similar setup it seems to be a mostly appreciated thing. PvErs like to entertain the idea that when they get strong enough they could potentially go to PvP and PvPers like the idea that they might see potential new faces to mix things up.

 

The only time I ever remember this setup being criticized was when some PvE villages would sail over, raid, then take the loot home to PvE afterwards. However pretty sure that was easily fixed.

 

I also remember sometimes on one WU server we would sail to PvE to join in some of the PvE events like unique slaying or impalongs which was fun. 

Edited by MightySheep

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27 minutes ago, MightySheep said:

I can't fathom why a game company wouldn't want a cash shop. You want to make money, players want to give you money for cosmetic ######, its literally win win. Imagine if you could buy capes for instance, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that everyone would buy them, no one would want to be seen as being a cape-less noob lol. You could add all sorts of skins for furniture and various things like that, which has the added effect of improving the look of the game. As long as you don't go overboard with it, there is basically no downside.

Because for a lot of that wurm is about you being able to craft whst you want, not crafting then buying a skin for it. It could come in as blueprints but a cash shop is and would be a huge undertaking for a lot of time, and in order to drive enough revenue per month we would need to be creating enough items per month. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

Opening a new server on Steam, just doing the same game mechanics and same subscription model as current WO will end is complete failure.  almost every sub you get there will be from existing players on WO.  Some will keep going on the old WO servers, but many will abandon them completely.  This would just be a money transfer to a new platform, where you also have to give some of it to Steam.

 

Having the possibility of a merge from WO to the Steam servers is a horrible idea, UNLESS the merge is simply moving the WO cluster to Steam, but keeping it completely isolated from any of the new servers.  Saying the merge is a possibility is sending a message to everyone that "at some point, we will destroy the market completely and make your hard earned skills pointless".

 

Launching a new server on steam will get some additional traction, but tell me, what do you think a new person will choose, when presented with WU or WO on Steam?

 

I'm all for making the move to Steam, but drop the subscription model.  Just deploy it on the WU platform and come up with an alternate form of revenue than the dead subscription model. 

 

Also, congrats on the new role!  I've always loved your work on the game.  I just feel bad that you might be in a more visible position as the execs head down this path of darkness.

I believe I brought this up once before.  Releasing WO on Steam and keeping it separate from the original WO, is no different than Wurm Unlimited and keeping it separate. Wurm Unlimited and Wurm Online are literally the same thing, except separated.

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11 hours ago, Samool said:

Epic is unlikely to get much attention soon, at least until the Steam release, but we do plan to work on it. Moving between Epic servers with items might have to wait on that.

 

Sounds good. As long as the borders are opened at some point. We've got little to no interest in PvE servers, although there's no rush if devs are busy with other stuff.

 

I'm wondering, was the replacement map for the previously planned Epic overhaul ever created? If not then maybe just keep the map as is, revert Elevation rules back to normal, and just let us get on with it? :)

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Skills may transfer, items won't. 

Are you talking about from Jackal to Freedom or from one steam server (PvE to PvP) or what?

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10 hours ago, Jeston said:

 

I will never understand people who say "I am not spending $10-15 a month" then proceed to buy $40-50 cosmetics. What those people should really say is "I want it easy"

 

lol. Not easy. It's just basic human nature. I've seen this in every game I've ever played that had a cash shop. Many people spend way more than they would on a subscription because they can tell themselves they're only going to spend a little this month, or none at all. And maybe they go a month or two without spending any (or not, lol), and then spend 6 months worth on some frivolous frippery.  People love to spend money and buy things but hate bills.  A subscription is basically a monthly bill, as is deed upkeep. After a while it starts to feel too much like RL paying bills and if they don't pay it they lose out on something, when they'd rather be "spending" that money on goodies.  I believe this is why the cash shops are so popular and the game is *free*.  :)

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3 minutes ago, Amadee said:

People love to spend money and buy things but hate bills.  A subscription is basically a monthly bill, as is deed upkeep. After a while it starts to feel too much like RL paying bills and if they don't pay it they lose out on something, when they'd rather be "spending" that money on goodies.  I believe this is why the cash shops are so popular and the game is *free*.  :)

 

 

I think this is true. 

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18 minutes ago, Amadee said:

 

lol. Not easy. It's just basic human nature. I've seen this in every game I've ever played that had a cash shop. Many people spend way more than they would on a subscription because they can tell themselves they're only going to spend a little this month, or none at all. And maybe they go a month or two without spending any (or not, lol), and then spend 6 months worth on some frivolous frippery.  People love to spend money and buy things but hate bills.  A subscription is basically a monthly bill, as is deed upkeep. After a while it starts to feel too much like RL paying bills and if they don't pay it they lose out on something, when they'd rather be "spending" that money on goodies.  I believe this is why the cash shops are so popular and the game is *free*.  :)

Thank you for saying this.  Me responding would have been counter productive and you summed it up perfectly.

 

Retrograde does make a valid point, that it would take great effort to create a cash shop model.  It is a catch 22.  Go the easy route and stay with a subscription model, thus killing the possibility of gaining a large influx of net new players, or go fully free, with a proposed cash shop "on the way", allowing droves of net new players to join the game, without fears of a subscription model.  Sometimes a business needs to roll the dice and take risks.  The current proposal to go Steam is fairly risk free, with very minimal potential gains.  Why bother if you ask me.  It is just postponing all the other game development, while it rolls out.

 

However, if they wanted to take more risks and hope for a really big win for the company, they could go free in a Beta release, with the promise of a cash shop in the works, but with an asterisk that says they will switch to a subscription model, if the net new player count never reaches a certain milestone that makes the cash shop development worthwhile.

 

Honestly, if the goal of the steam release is to get net new players, it has to be in hopes of a significant number of new players, otherwise it is nothing more than a veiled classic "new server cash grab".  So assuming this isn't the cash grab, then the most important thing here is the net new player count.  What better way to get them than a free version of WO?  If there isn't a significant number that come to play when totally free, then there was never any hope of it happening with a subscription.  Then WO's last chapter can be finished and the book retired.

 

This is the live or die moment. Doing what was done before with poor results will result in poor results.  Can they not see this?

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31 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Thank you for saying this.  Me responding would have been counter productive and you summed it up perfectly.

 

Retrograde does make a valid point, that it would take great effort to create a cash shop model.  It is a catch 22.  Go the easy route and stay with a subscription model, thus killing the possibility of gaining a large influx of net new players, or go fully free, with a proposed cash shop "on the way", allowing droves of net new players to join the game, without fears of a subscription model.  Sometimes a business needs to roll the dice and take risks.  The current proposal to go Steam is fairly risk free, with very minimal potential gains.  Why bother if you ask me.  It is just postponing all the other game development, while it rolls out.

 

However, if they wanted to take more risks and hope for a really big win for the company, they could go free in a Beta release, with the promise of a cash shop in the works, but with an asterisk that says they will switch to a subscription model, if the net new player count never reaches a certain milestone that makes the cash shop development worthwhile.

 

Honestly, if the goal of the steam release is to get net new players, it has to be in hopes of a significant number of new players, otherwise it is nothing more than a veiled classic "new server cash grab".  So assuming this isn't the cash grab, then the most important thing here is the net new player count.  What better way to get them than a free version of WO?  If there isn't a significant number that come to play when totally free, then there was never any hope of it happening with a subscription.  Then WO's last chapter can be finished and the book retired.

 

This is the live or die moment. Doing what was done before with poor results will result in poor results.  Can they not see this?

but QoL means make wurm easy!

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2 hours ago, tamat said:

but QoL means make wurm easy!

That is my main concern. That QoL will result in watering out and dumbing down Wurm to an extent to make it unattractive to the recent player base while it will still be "too hard" for most "endgame content within 2 weeks" people.

 

There must be honest and open announcement that the game is a survival game with a steep ascent to gain experience and competence. Those whining about a dated UI would soon, when other fashions emerge, whine about a now "modern UI" (most of them not serving the complexity of Wurm well).

 

Btw., a single server, unconnected to even the PvP server, will make sailing boring, especially when the server is of limited size.

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Are you taking QOL suggestions if so 



Yes i will keep hammering away at this point but really all that this would do is you not have to click 1-5 or more to select the right tool to improve and just require you to add the tool to your toolbar for usage something as simple as this would make a part of the game that is seen by quite a few as over the top a lot easier
And before you say" oh but this will make botting easier" understand this a bot can do on screen reading and figure out when your stamina bar is full read your event log and instant select the right tool the moment your stamina is full and queue the next action
This will still require you to click the improve keybind or button and still have to sit there do everything manually the only thing it takes out is you having to read your event and learn a set of muscle memory button presses based on a certain line of text

In my eyes this would honestly be an improvement to wurm's crafting system and heck if you want to you could leave it as an option that is enabled by default or make it be part of premium or something, this would prob catch the eye of quite a few people who are on the fence of getting prem once on steam "Oh you can now improve with 1 keypress instead of multiple? yes please" 

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52 minutes ago, wipeout said:

Are you taking QOL suggestions if so 



Yes i will keep hammering away at this point but really all that this would do is you not have to click 1-5 or more to select the right tool to improve and just require you to add the tool to your toolbar for usage something as simple as this would make a part of the game that is seen by quite a few as over the top a lot easier
And before you say" oh but this will make botting easier" understand this a bot can do on screen reading and figure out when your stamina bar is full read your event log and instant select the right tool the moment your stamina is full and queue the next action
This will still require you to click the improve keybind or button and still have to sit there do everything manually the only thing it takes out is you having to read your event and learn a set of muscle memory button presses based on a certain line of text

In my eyes this would honestly be an improvement to wurm's crafting system and heck if you want to you could leave it as an option that is enabled by default or make it be part of premium or something, this would prob catch the eye of quite a few people who are on the fence of getting prem once on steam "Oh you can now improve with 1 keypress instead of multiple? yes please" 

There's been discussion around this and potentially introducing it in some fashion, with a default quickbar in the new ui like all games, repurposing the toolbelt to act like this. 

 

That said, it's only on a maybe list, just one of the many threads we're currently weaving so don't hedge your bets on this post 

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48 minutes ago, wipeout said:

Are you taking QOL suggestions if so 



Yes i will keep hammering away at this point but really all that this would do is you not have to click 1-5 or more to select the right tool to improve and just require you to add the tool to your toolbar for usage something as simple as this would make a part of the game that is seen by quite a few as over the top a lot easier
And before you say" oh but this will make botting easier" understand this a bot can do on screen reading and figure out when your stamina bar is full read your event log and instant select the right tool the moment your stamina is full and queue the next action
This will still require you to click the improve keybind or button and still have to sit there do everything manually the only thing it takes out is you having to read your event and learn a set of muscle memory button presses based on a certain line of text

In my eyes this would honestly be an improvement to wurm's crafting system and heck if you want to you could leave it as an option that is enabled by default or make it be part of premium or something, this would prob catch the eye of quite a few people who are on the fence of getting prem once on steam "Oh you can now improve with 1 keypress instead of multiple? yes please" 

This would be a bad idea. The only thing I would get rid of is having to select the right tool. If you dig you automatically use a shovel, if you hammer you use a hammer and so on.

 

It also what makes fighting boring you do not have to do anything, best in most cases is actually just to not do anything just wait for result, a very randomized result. Fighting should be interactive so player skill matters.

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21 minutes ago, Sandyar said:

This would be a bad idea. The only thing I would get rid of is having to select the right tool. If you dig you automatically use a shovel, if you hammer you use a hammer and so on.

 

It also what makes fighting boring you do not have to do anything, best in most cases is actually just to not do anything just wait for result, a very randomized result. Fighting should be interactive so player skill matters.

The non striked out part is basically what improved improve does but only for improving.

It does nothing for fighting or anything else in the game.

 

On that note though, allowing you to do dig or mine without selecting the tool if it was on your toolbelt would be handy as well.

Edited by necroe

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19 minutes ago, Sandyar said:

This would be a bad idea. The only thing I would get rid of is having to select the right tool. If you dig you automatically use a shovel, if you hammer you use a hammer and so on.

 

It also what makes fighting boring you do not have to do anything, best in most cases is actually just to not do anything just wait for result, a very randomized result. Fighting should be interactive so player skill matters.

What does this have to do with fighting? the idea behind the mod is to take away the having to press 1-7 buttons during the improving of items aspect of the game a part that a lot of people do not like and turns them off from this game
It does not automatically mean that every action you do automatically uses the correct tool and you never have to select a tool ever again and even if it did you still equip your sword so how does this affect fighting?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

There's been discussion around this and potentially introducing it in some fashion, with a default quickbar in the new ui like all games, repurposing the toolbelt to act like this. 

 

That said, it's only on a maybe list, just one of the many threads we're currently weaving so don't hedge your bets on this post 

Thank you i hope it goes form a maybe to a def yes in some form or another as i think it will help people like the game a lot more when it comes to the area of improving and such

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honestly doesn't every single person use g-series keys to mash every single imp action at items in a vein attempt to mimic that mod lol, all it does is limit imping with 0 thought to people with 50 ML, its really weird game design

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