Rolf

Steam and new Product Manager

Recommended Posts

Just now, Postes said:

Wait. Was Budda the Product Manager?

 

Yep, originally announced in October 2016.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Yep, originally announced in October 2016.

 

 

 

 

Oh, wow. I thought he was just a regular developer or contributor. I'm not trying to say this in a negative way, I am just curious what changes he did for the game? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's keep this on topic please, this is not the place for biscuits to be posting off topic things about politics 

  • Like 1
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Let's keep this on topic please, this is not the place for biscuits to be posting off topic things about politics 

 

The thread wasnt about you either, but you had no issues talking about your role. I ask a question about the former project manager (what the thread is about) and its not on topic?

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goodluck samool and farewell budda!

 

Kinda dissapointed how things have been handled and is handled even "today". Update the standards to this day, in every aspect, thank you. Lets say if you implement something to the game... DO IT PROPERLY, make it feel like its the most polished and coolest thing in game to give wow factor! Now it feels like you guys have given up sometimes, no offence.

 

Do we really need another set of servers? For 50 actual ppl that play the game, there is already 4 epic servers,  jackal + a dozen freedom servers. I mean.. offer compensation to players who live on those smaller servers, mats, silvers, prem time? 3 wishes? old socks? maybe use GM's to help build idk... give them time to evac. Lets keep 2-3 servers.. like independence and xanadu + screw around server and thats that. When steam folk joins, there is more land for everyone to explore, but doesnt divide the small playerbase to 20 servers.

 

With all those servers, i guess you could save some money if you close few? If not, at least it would make game feel tiny bit more alive when you accidently bump into someone after few hours.. it feels like a miracle nowadays. 

 

Remove if you feel its out of place or doesnt fit your perspective, just few questions/statements that are bugging me and are related to the state of this great game.

 

ps. pro tip, fix the issues you have already and dont try to patch it with new content that needs fixing.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF the cost aren't a factor to drive server closes.. there's a good bit of deeds costing a good amount of 'silver' that's paid monthly even on smaller servers.

As for deeds.. it's piece of land.. but all that is on it is what players value, forcing them out isn't something to play with. Even if there was an option to export a deed and it's perimeter and plant it on a new piece of land.... some might not be that willing to move.

Existing servers have history, some projects on the maps took months/years of daily work for some of the nuttier folks with the canals/tunnels/bridges/etc.. How do you just pick to erase that for no reason?

If folks wanted to live next to each other, nobody stopped them to move.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the compressed release time frame for release means the freedom servers have already been written off.  This is probably understood, but not able to be admitted. 

They probably need revenue badly. Either its a going concern or the new ownership expects  more immediate returns. 

 

That being said, sometimes you have to make the hard decisions. Whether that is changing staff, or stabbing the horse for a final run. Ultimately managing expectations is analogous to politics. You can always give, but never take away. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, nygen said:

IMO the compressed release time frame for release means the freedom servers have already been written off.  This is probably understood, but not able to be admitted. 

They probably need revenue badly. Either its a going concern or the new ownership expects  more immediate returns. 

 

That being said, sometimes you have to make the hard decisions. Whether that is changing staff, or stabbing the horse for a final run. Ultimately managing expectations is analogous to politics. You can always give, but never take away. 

 

So are you saying this is just another cash grab ? and that the ship is about to hit the ocean bottom ?

I don't see why if they are going to go steam no matter what , that they just don't export WO over to it instead if they can ?

Work with what you have , making a copy of the game to another launcher is not going to fix issues you have keeping players or attracting new ones .

 Any new player I see now found WO from playing WU , but found WU had no end game , to fast skilling in some aspect ...

 

So WO did get some free advertising from Steam as WU ...

 

Also since new company owns Club AB and Wurm  that mean they have all are personal info , email , Credit card and such ? if so do you not need to advise the player base before such things are done ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Rolf said:

Yes the current plan is to open new servers, at least one pvp and one pve. Although they will use the same account server you will not be able to travel or trade between these and the old servers.

That pretty much feels like a big f- off to me lol. Thanks for caring about all the time your current player base put into this game over the years.

 

Edit: I do hope wurm does well but I'm annoyed I won't be there to see it.... Never gonna reskill in wurm.

Edited by Maximillian
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do not store anything but email and ip. We do not store credit card information or any other personally identifiable information. 

 

Our privacy policy outlines what we use and how we use it and will not change without notification 

  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Locath said:

"Our players and customers asked for more transparency and information. We listened and started providing them with all sorts of news and updates about the whole of our product. They should be happy, right?"

 

Think again!

 

Why does every single post from staff have to be derailed to this? Why is is ALWAYS caused by people playing on PvP servers? Not all of them but it's never us, "freedumbers", causing what's evidenced above.

Derailing every single post in the same way, creating (3 today so far that i counted) new forum accounts because of reasons, just to post this rubbish which has nothing to do with the subject matter.

 

 

This is very professional. The staff roster is and always was publicly available on the forums and many of us consider staff members our friends. We play with them, we know them, we care about them. This way of delivering the news is way more professional than "holly goat! Did you hear the rumor??? XYZ is no longer a member of the staff!, check the staff roster on the forums, i think there was a mistake"

 

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/4976-wurm-online-staff/

 

With the recent updates and letting us in a bit closer to the information about the plans, i'm very optimistic about the future of Wurm. Thank you for sharing the much needed information, Rolf.

Because "freedumbers" arent the ones who have been lead around in a goose chase by the staff about "plans" for years now. But it's ok keep degrading the whole pvp community and then wonder why they act so "toxic" and "hostile" on the forums afterwards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've not been on forums in a bit, missed this update.   It was my view even though being asked in window dressing of our thoughts , steam was going ahead anyways.

 

Congrats @Samool, truly highly competent, well earned well deserved.  You are a great fit and wise choice for your new role.

I wish i had the same confidence in the choice of wurm online going to steam.  For the life of me in terms of long term success and without shafting existing WO players, i can't see the rational.  As I love wurm and in life the pragmatic optimist, i'll have to rest in the belief this could be a good thing, yet wurm has a poor track record in this area.

 

I feel like i'm watching a family member or friend unravel in some dysfunction in front of me and the only thing one can do is just let them hit bottom.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bloodscythe said:

I can't see the rational.

I dont understand how you cant tbh. The track record for wurm thus far has mostly been that more servers = more players overall even if it seems counter intuitive to release servers when the current ones aren't necessarily full. He already stated in the other thread that they can't afford conventional advertising so they are going for a method which is extremely common for games - a steam release. Just the act of releasing on steam and being featured under the 'new releases' or 'trending' or 'free to play' lists is a great initial player bump which eventually fades off but being on steam has plenty of long term benefits I personally find myself looking at my steam library when I'm bored and thinking of what old game to go back to or seeing what friends are playing or being on 'if you liked x then you might also like y' games recommendations for things like conan exiles or life is feudal.

 

 

Server launches are always a great opportunity to create hype and attract returning players or new players with email campaigns and word of mouth etc. Especially since the current servers are so washed up and old and everyones running around with ridiculous stats. My reaction is polar opposite of yours, this feels like first sign of life out of a slowly dying game in ages.

 

I'd be very surprised if current/former PvP players of Wurm aren't hyped about the prospect of fighting on a new server with new alliances and fresh land to grab and potentially massacring steam newbies etc. I mean how boring and set in your ways must you have to be to not get excited about that lol.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Damascus said:

 

So are you saying this is just another cash grab ? and that the ship is about to hit the ocean bottom ?

I don't see why if they are going to go steam no matter what , that they just don't export WO over to it instead if they can ?

 

 

It's not another cash grab. Its a very informed choice. Steam will bring fresh blood and probably a good chunk of change.

 

I am implying that the "new years" time frame is not going to afford them enough time to make significant significant changes. Likely it is going to be a refreshed UI with some QOL improvements and otherwise the same old (good) song. I think if WO was doing well enough, the time frame would be longer.

 

Freedom population is going to suffer badly. At some point it may not be financially viable.  At that point management will be faced with a choice to amputate or assimilate. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, nygen said:

 

It's not another cash grab. Its a very informed choice. Steam will bring fresh blood and probably a good chunk of change.

 

 

 

 

 

But what is WU on steam for then ?

Plus that last statement  shows to me its a cash grab , it may not be your intent to make it look that way but it does .

Maybe they should have made WU free ......

Because WO will not be after they find out they still need pay 8 Euros a month plus silver for deeds .... or do they plan to change the deed part ?

As steam does not permit RMT , how will player get coin for deed upkeep ?

If you say buying it from new company , at what I been reading they do deal in ingame  currency and other microshop ...

 

No one is going to pay the prices they are asking for silver from Wurm shop .

And if you want a perma ban from Steam try to RMT , yes people still do it just look at Ebay ...

 

I just think more afford  should be put into existing Wurm since the old guard is gone and new is in .....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This raises a lot of red flags for me. A lot of questions I'd love to see answered, but I know won't really be answered with words, but rather with time passing.

Budda has had an incredible vision for the game for a long time, regardless of what you think of his person or anything. It's been fantastic to see the ideas he had make big changes to the game. Runes, archeology, journal and such. Samool has more than just big boots to fill.

But what will this new change of direction mean for us? I think it's pretty fair to assume based on posts in here that now the direction of the game will change heavily.

The next while will no longer be the future of Jackal, the long list of stuff they'd love to do with it that's been mentioned on streams a few times or the improvements on the way. It's going to be prep for opening another server for Steam users. It's fair to be excited, sceptical or both. I really don't think there's going to be some new audience we suddenly find on Steam when we're still asked the question from people "which version do I go for?"

 

What I'd really like to see is some word from Samool himself to give some idea to players what will be happening with him in the lead now, given this very sudden and harsh shift in direction. As it stands the community has already felt a strong resurgance in negitivity from the previous two Rolf threads (not an attack on you Rolf, love you) due to people having a way to really voice their feelings or even hatred towards the state of the game and/or its direction. I think it's time to give the community some time to cool off while Steam plans are made in the background, before being able to give a sizeable update on plans and such for it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Olloch said:

Ok real talk

Samool seems like a pretty cool guy. I genuinely wish him luck running this project.

I don't have any friends left to play the Steam release with because they were all banned for 'toxic behavior' or something.

 

I am assuming bans will carry over to this new steam version? I don't think I have any friends that aren't banned.

I doubt ill play knowing I could get pinched at any moment for being too toxic. The lack of escalation of bans/warnings is whats really scary to me. No warning, no mute, no temp ban, just permanent IP bans as a business model. Yikes.

 

retro isnt that bad 

 

 

hello @Olloch

 

 

Also, glad to see the shake up in developers, not a slight to Budda at all, he did a good job I'd say. However shaking things up especially with the new breathe of life from the transfer of ownership I think this is a great time to rock the boat and push towards a new era. I'd like to see some serious shake up to hopefully bring a new life to this game.

Edited by thekraken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's been a few posts regarding moderation that we've removed which I'm sure is going to spout all sorts of conspiracy theories, but I feel the need to say something about it. 

 

Using these forums to push or antagonise other players, harass developers, or simply accuse staff of removing posts is not on. 

 

The majority of posts we've removed have been thinly veiled bashing of the staff, the game or the general playerbase at large, the rest have been removed for referencing thst or continuing the issue. 

 

This is not your arena to post whatever you like, accuse us of censorship or whatever. We have very clear rules that are very easy to abide. If you fail to do so it is not on us to gently remind you. We will not tolerate it. 

  • Like 10
  • Cat 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been trying to think about how the steam WO could be successful especially in light of both WU and existing WO, the concerns around unjust moderation and of course the changes around what content made it to WU compared to what was promised.

 

A few observations apply to both WU and WO:

 

- New server rushes are very popular

- The time from first login to building your deed tends to be where the Wurm appeal is strongest for many

- The feeling of living on the edge of life versus doing chores in complete safety tends to also line up with the second point

- Usually once people build their deed then their participation starts falling, slowly at first and then building up steam overtime until they've moved on to the next new server

- Not everyone can afford the massive amount of time needed for 1x WO or 1x WU so many look for a logical ending point, often when a deed or building is built to some arbitrary level

 

One advantage WU has over WO is the ability to find a server that is different, it's not the same experience everywhere you go. Custom mods, custom maps, even custom themes exist and can be experienced relatively easily by everyone who wants to do so

 

One disadvantage of WU is the ease at which "cheater mods" can be written and used with no real control over them. This makes things like PVP next to impossible.

 

WO has the advantage of being perceived as having the most likely chance of a server being there for the long haul. In reality it's a business and like all businesses the decision to turn it off can happen at any time. Things like back-ups etc aren't really any secure on WO then on WU. I've had high usage servers running with 30 minute backups while I think I read that WO runs at 3 hour intervals. Really depends on the admin decisions more then anything.

 

WU has the advantage of being able to pick whatever level of server hardware you want. Again, I've run on server hardware that was much better then whatever WO is using.

 

Advice for making this successful on steam?

 

1) Give people multiple experiences to choose from. Don't make every server the same in terms of grind, map, feature set etc. Experiment with a no-deed server, a snow server, a hunting server, extreme survival server, a roaming pvp server and a pvp deed destroying server. Go for 1x, 5x , 10x to capture those with limited time. Introduce different concepts to let people enjoy Wurm in different ways

 

2) Capitalize on the "new server" syndrome. Make a server time or event boxed. When something key happens the server ends or perhaps after x amount of time. Maybe the island sinks under a massive volcanic eruption and everyone has to flee from the approaching lava after building a ship so they can run to a new server that in some ways is another new experience when they arrive

 

3) Put some clear rules around moderation and follow them. Be transparent, be honest. No-one wants to feel like they can be banned for whatever reason someone comes up with out of the blue. There are a lot of people on steam who left WO and the most common thing they cite is the "fear of unreasonable/unfair banning". It doesn't matter if it's completely true or not. The problem is you are entering an environment that is under less WURM control then this forum and if enough people think this way (and they do) then it's a real problem. (BTW - To be clear I am blaming the poor policies on what has happened rather then saying any particular staff are a problem. In my few encounters with actual moderators or GM I have nothing but good things to say. When people have absolute freedom to do whatever they want then they often do).

 

4) Keep your promises. You will be going up against anyone who cares to review on steam. If you say you are going to do something then do it. Otherwise when you introduce this shiny new game the doubters are going to start calling out what happened before, the broken promises etc.

 

5) While the focus is often on giving people a better endgame, one clear winner might be to figure out how to keep the grind reasonable while extending the portion of the game that happens between when someone is brand new and when they get a new deed. Some WU servers have experimented with very, very minimal starting gear which dramatically extended the initial parts of the game.

 

A second product launch on the same platform where you have an existing product is hard especially if you don't have a clear and distinct advantage for the new product over the old one. In light of my comments above it's unlikely to be enough to say "Managed by Wurm staff" as the difference, it will have to be something way more significant then that.

 

Personally I wish you well with what you are attempting to do.

 

~Nappy

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, MightySheep said:

I dont understand how you cant tbh. The track record for wurm thus far has mostly been that more servers = more players overall even if it seems counter intuitive to release servers when the current ones aren't necessarily full. He already stated in the other thread that they can't afford conventional advertising so they are going for a method which is extremely common for games - a steam release. Just the act of releasing on steam and being featured under the 'new releases' or 'trending' or 'free to play' lists is a great initial player bump which eventually fades off but being on steam has plenty of long term benefits I personally find myself looking at my steam library when I'm bored and thinking of what old game to go back to or seeing what friends are playing or being on 'if you liked x then you might also like y' games recommendations for things like conan exiles or life is feudal.

 

 

Server launches are always a great opportunity to create hype and attract returning players or new players with email campaigns and word of mouth etc. Especially since the current servers are so washed up and old and everyones running around with ridiculous stats. My reaction is polar opposite of yours, this feels like first sign of life out of a slowly dying game in ages.

 

I'd be very surprised if current/former PvP players of Wurm aren't hyped about the prospect of fighting on a new server with new alliances and fresh land to grab and potentially massacring steam newbies etc. I mean how boring and set in your ways must you have to be to not get excited about that lol.

The manner in which you framed this, sure I get that and agree.  Those are all pragmatic realities.  Only thing I got lost on is the non sequitur last 2 sentences.  where did pvp come into this?  my post was as an existing wurm player.  it's odd to make an argument /position for something not brought up but in general i'd agree with that too.   I can very much see, since you brought up pvp, how it could be fun for players with experience to then play against steam noobs, the laughs alone would be worth.  Yet if pvp can't work here and now, how will it magically work there.  And if the solution if found to have it work there, why would not not be implemented here.  I see alot of myopic thinking

 

I'm not looking at this issue though as to how it servers just me personally.  I'll be fine no matter what direction this goes, but playing fast n loose without hard empirical data  makes it look like a chance bet and hope...not something i'd want to do with any company.  For all the armchair experts of " it's clear to me the problem"..why is it no one has solved the hemorrhage or understands the player base need/desire well enough to stabilize it let alone increase it.  One can run from debt by just opening new credit cards playing the moving shell game, same as opening new server..it does not solve the problem but intensifies it once inertia catches up.

 

Either way I want what is best for wurm and hope that is what it gets.  I try to post thoughts beyond what self serves as that ever is a solution for one.  I also like to stick to the issues vs who posts, it keeps it less bias or reactionary to something outside the topic framework.  As it is now, we have WO with declining membership, WU on steam with saturation point flat sales, and somehow adding WO in the same grocery store with flat sales WU it's gonna succeed, and won't hurt existing WO current platform standalone.   Ponder that, for it's some funny math i don't understand.  The hard part is finding solutions, if that is what is happening.  If so I applaud that effort.  Go get'm Rolf and Samool, take steam by storm and may the game get the success it deserves for it truly is a one of a kind jewel.

Edited by Bloodscythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope this opportunity is used to make major, potentially breaking changes to the game. If it's just another release of the same thing but with skill rates adjusted, the server population will start out okay and then die out like usual and we'll have the same game but even more fragmented. There isn't much to risk at this point with revenue going down for so long, so I hope the devs go crazy with this and try some risky directions and changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jonsnow said:

If you say anything at all about an employee, they could end up opening a lawsuit against you.  Defamation of character is a real risk here in America.

 

It is extremely unprofessional.  Having managed large teams before I could not imagine announcing on any public forum, the removal of a staff member no matter how bad the person was.  

We are all very closely connected with staff here.  It would be very unprofessional NOT to mention a staff change like this.  If this were a business like Sony or Blizzard, where there are hundreds of devs, having one manager get replaced by another would not need mentioning.  Here it is quite polite to the community to announce the change.  If Rolf said.  Budda was fired and replaced, that would not have been politically correct.  Contract was up means lots of possibilities, but not anything bad. 

 

No need to try and stir up problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Kirtah said:

I hope this opportunity is used to make major, potentially breaking changes to the game. If it's just another release of the same thing but with skill rates adjusted, the server population will start out okay and then die out like usual and we'll have the same game but even more fragmented. There isn't much to risk at this point with revenue going down for so long, so I hope the devs go crazy with this and try some risky directions and changes.

Thats exactly what I hope it ISNT. I dont understand why people find the concept of sandbox games so difficult to grasp. There is no sandbox game where the server population doesn't eventually thin out and become skeleton of former self. Look at Haven and Hearth they wipe the server whenever the playerbase dwindles to about 100 concurrent players so they end up wiping the server roughly every 2 years. Does that mean the game is a failure? No not necessarily the initial player count of each world gets higher and higher every time with the latest world having the most players yet. Think of any other sand box game, LiF, Conan Exiles, even Rust works as an example, the population always starts high then drops slowly. It's like a sandbox irl, how long do you think kids will keep playing in it if you never replace the sand?

 

If the devs start trying to do dumb ###### like with the challenge or jackal servers then that would honestly be the biggest buzzkill for people who just want to play Wurm. It's almost like you're saying Wurm is intrinsically a ###### game and devs should just throw a spanner in the works and hope it somehow fixes everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i hope its a battle royale where you have to do archaeology to get weapons and tools

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.