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Rolf

Steam and new Product Manager

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18 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

Even based on your information here, the game would run you 18e/month which comes out to $19.76, or just about $20/month. With 2 accounts and your 2s/month deed, you don't come anywhere close to your "$40"; it is HALF of that.

 

It was a cheap shot in the sense that I don't get to have an opinion as I am not a player according to him, which is untrue as I am a player as well, that happens dedicates a bit of extra time to help support the game in a staff capacity.

There is no "Captain America" ###### here, it is simply calling out your theory that you NEED to pay $40 a month in order to play Wurm as factually broken.

 

Yes, despite you not liking to hear it, having more than 1 account is just fluff, and is a personal decision and not a requirement. And yes honestly, a single account and a deed can get you everywhere.

I live in America, our prices fluctuate all the time so please stop trying to tell me how much I pay per month. 

Edited by Ismira

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I already wrote that I pay 80 Euro per year (88USD ca.), and haven't to pay for my deed (deeds to be exact) as my ingame silver covers that, and not only that. Yes I have a priest which were premed for 3 months (2s beginning and 16€ for 2 months) than was unpremed for months, and reactivated for 14 days once to collapse a couple of tiles and genesis a couple of animals. I plan to prem him for a year once I have enough time to play him. I lack both the time and the nerve to run swarms of alts concurrently. Still when preming him and me I would not pay in excess of 14€ per month.

 

All the comparisons with MMOs which allow several toons from one account are nil. One can play one toon at the time from the same account in those games I know. The reason is that those are class based games where a warrior can never be a cleric or a mage. So you have your specialized class characters. In Wurm (similar in Ryzom and a few other classless games) you can do all with the same toon. Only you cannot do priest stuff when a fighter-crafter etc. character. That is why 2 toons are handy, and extremists may want a priest of each religion, e.g. 4 priests, or even more. That is, on the other hand, luxury or "fluff".

 

All in all, no, Wurm is not expensive, compared to other subscription games. Of course, 10$ or bit less per month are much money in poorer countries where e.g. average wage is 150$ like in Ukraine, or even less. But that is not to be solved by Wurm or CCAB.

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23 minutes ago, Ismira said:

I live in America, our prices fluctuate all the time so please stop trying to tell me how much I pay per month. 

 

Many of us live in the US and 18e does not fluctuate to 40 US dollars and has not approached that in over a decade. 

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23 minutes ago, Ismira said:

I live in America, our prices fluctuate all the time so please stop trying to tell me how much I pay per month. 

stop intervening on latinamerica economy and saying us how much we can spend or how manage macroeconomy

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2 hours ago, Mowglia said:

 

I do make my own bricks and mortar, and do cast cast my own tools, armour and weapons, and I imp them all too. I breed, make ships, cook, make compasses, you name it. That's the fun in playing Wurm for me, being self-sufficient. So while I agree with what you said, don't even think about trying to put that on me.

 

Maybe buying stuff that other players made like bricks and mortar is a bit different to buying an account. Then again, maybe not.

Good for you that you can roll how you wish, so let the next guy do the same.

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LOL what a bunch of victims we have here, you pay what you want to pay for the alts, deeds ,services of others, premium accounts, or whatever cause that is what you want to do, nobody make you buy or pay for anything in Wurm, this is a very good game at a very fair price, so what if the OWNERS of this want to go to stream, it is their choice to do that,, you should be grateful that they wanted to make you part of the update ,asking for your input (most places would not have care about the customer service Rolf and the crew just have shown to you) they would have just made the changes and moved on not caring about you as a customer would think), if you want to show support to the Dev team and all of the great people at Wurm please do so, but to complain is very childish, so now let all of the haters  full my box with messages so I can delete them, cause people here is making my head hurt with your foolishness, but I will say what ever the Wurm team does I will forever support them, cause of all of the good years I have had in this game

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3 hours ago, Ismira said:

I live in America, our prices fluctuate all the time so please stop trying to tell me how much I pay per month. 

Except I as well live in America and I have yet to see prices fluctuate to a degree that it causes the price per month to pay for Wurm to nearly double to match what you claim was paid.

You are using $40/month as a base for your argument that Wurm is expensive, I didn't tell you how much you pay per month you said how much you pay, which is clearly beyond a doubt a good portion above average.

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1 minute ago, Shrimpiie said:

Except I as well live in America and I have yet to see prices fluctuate to a degree that it causes the price per month to pay for Wurm to nearly double to match what you claim was paid.

You are using $40/month as a base for your argument that Wurm is expensive, I didn't tell you how much you pay per month you said how much you pay, which is clearly beyond a doubt a good portion above average.

Think you need to let go of that big flagged based shield. The subscription model is outdated and to suggest we all live in a minimum size deed (with zero templars) and them pay again to skill above 20 is more than just fluff.

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29 minutes ago, onefox said:

Think you need to let go of that big flagged based shield. The subscription model is outdated and to suggest we all live in a minimum size deed (with zero templars) and them pay again to skill above 20 is more than just fluff.

Exactly, we need to drop down to the lowest currency in the world and then make the subscription fee that.

 

Let's break out the numbers here shall we?

The Iranian Rial is the world's worst currency, where 17e/month equates to ~785,929 Rial.

The average yearly wage in Iran is 17,030,000 Rial.

So roughly 55% would go to the subscription.

If we brought that down to an arbitrary value say 5% a year, then you are down to ~70,958 Rial a month.

That is 1.53e/month.

Given Wurm's current premium subscription count is 1,971, that comes out to simply ~3,000e/month.

Now there is some +/- here in the numbers but this gives a general idea.

 

And minimum size deed? Never said anything about that at all.

The smallest deed size in Wurm is a full 11x11, but the smallest deed you can have while retaining 1s/month upkeep is 23x21 that retains up to 32 animals on the deed.

Having a deed that prevents decay on its buildings/fences with 30+ days of upkeep gives a lot of space for a lot of stuff especially considering multi-story housing is a thing. Having a deed that is quite a large space of 23x21 gives you even more room to EASILY live in. Furthermore this is all after deed upkeep was dropped down a few years ago from what it was, after a lot of complaints that deeds were too expensive.

 

At the end of the day people are always going to complain that deeds, premium, are too expensive, yet with little actual facts supporting that they are, instead relying on personal circumstances such as larger deeds or more accounts as evidence of an expensive game.

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14 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

At the end of the day people are always going to complain that deeds, premium, are too expensive, yet with little actual facts supporting that they are, instead relying on personal circumstances such as larger deeds or more accounts as evidence of an expensive game.

 At the end of day...  it expensive if you want to enjoy beyond the bare minimum and not spent all your time dealing with decay ticks..Once again you're  basing your costings on the  lowest possible spec. Am not sure what  the best ratio is but I know it ain't the bare bones!.

Edited by onefox

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Amishly going to throw my hat in this ring.

The only time paying for premium was ever a struggle for me was when I was too young to have a job or any income, and even then that was back on the old sub price model.

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I  started Wurm 9 1/2 yrs ago and have 3 toons that have premium most of that time.  I work full time so aren't as dedicated to Wurm as others, but I have finally gotten skills into the 90s.  I can't see starting over.  I know you say the old servers aren't going away, but I also don't want to be playing in total solitude because those who were playing moved to steam.  This may be the nudge I need to finally break my addiction and get my head back into the real world.  

 

Sad..

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4 hours ago, Mitzie said:

I know you say the old servers aren't going away, but I also don't want to be playing in total solitude because those who were playing moved to steam.  This may be the nudge I need to finally break my addiction and get my head back into the real world.  

Sad..

 

I do not see yet that the "old" servers get depopulated. I am playing only 1.75 years now, but I won't abandon my friends and allies, my deed, my stuff and my skills. I fail to see many will, except some frantic "marketeers" sniffing opportunities to rip of newbies and disrupt an emerging market (sorry I am that negative about but I dont like that attitude).

 

If steam WO is not a failure, it may also lure fresh blood into our "old" servers now only trickling in, unable to stem the dwindling base entirely. The curse of WO all the years was its invisibility to a larger public, also caused by a nonexistant PR and advertising policy. That way, it could only tap from the potential of existing and former playerbase and their acquaintances which wasn't sufficient to replace natural decline of the playerbase by education, job, marriage, children, even death.

 

Steam is a chance with its 14million+ people logged in daily when prudently prepared, announced and advertised. In my opinion it should not be the sole channel to make WO more known to the public, but I have written that again and again.

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9 hours ago, onefox said:

 At the end of day...  it expensive if you want to enjoy beyond the bare minimum and not spent all your time dealing with decay ticks..Once again you're  basing your costings on the  lowest possible spec. Am not sure what  the best ratio is but I know it ain't the bare bones!.

 

The lowest spec, A 23x21 sized deed, works fine. That's nearly 500 tiles of deed for only 1s a month. You also really don't need a templar, I lived without one when I started back in the day. First it was a lot of hiding in sheds (no mine doors back then) and then I build a few guard towers. Then I walled in my land and I was perfectly safe inside, and pretty safe outside (this was without a deed at the time, I only placed one down on it a year or so in). Templars aren't needed and they are way too expensive for what they do on the PvE server.

 

10 hours ago, onefox said:

The subscription model is outdated

 

Streaming services are all using it, Gaming services are all using it (Origin Access, Google Stadia) and plenty of MMOs are using it. What you say was true about 10 years ago, but right now the subscription model is back and on the rise.

And sure, there are plenty of alternatives, like a ton of free to play games, even some buy to play MMOs, but Wurm doesn't seem viable without the subscription model right now. If you want to go free to play or buy to play then you generally need a good cosmetic store with a lot of new items in it every month, perhaps some unethical loot boxes (can't wait to see how many games just fall over once those are banned in enough countries), etc. That requires a large team to pull off, the game doesn't have that and doesn't have the revenue to afford it either. Perhaps a steam launch will help get it there, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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15 hours ago, Ismira said:

You can argue with me back and forth about what is expensive and what is not, but ultimately its up to me decide what is expensive. And as for @wipeout stating you spent 4k on a game and you really don't think that is expensive ?? you proved my point. I would never of posted that and I do hope that you are exaggerating.. there are some type of AAA groups for you.

Lets go off when i came back after gold 2 started over 4000 days ago my oldest account is 4466 days 21 hours 10 minutes old(i had an account before that but everything was lost in the beta wipes and also in gold 1 wipe)
My 2nd oldest account 4466 days 5 hours 49 minutes
my 3rd oldest is 3916 days 8 hours 41 minutes

Both of these have been prem almost none stop with only twice they lapsed out way way back due to uni times and me not being able to afford prem back then for a week so going off that they have been none stop prem those 2 accounts if i was to buy yearly
Now i do not have just 2 accounts i have 5-7 over the years generally sitting at 5 at all times
So going off that not all are prem at all times and only 2 are always prem and my 3rd one is around 60-70% of the time with my 4th being a new always prem(2 years now) and my 5th a fo priest only being prem when needed its really easy to spend 4k on this game just in prem time alone

Now for those who cant do quick math(or want to) 4466 days is 12.23562 years over a 12+ year period of playing wurm spending ONLY 4k on a game is nothing
In 10 years of playing league of legends i have spend over 5k on it
My steam accounts total value is 6911.28 USD

10 dollars here 20 dollars there 60 here it all adds up i dont need help groups i need more hours in the day so that i can play through my steam backlog while playing wurm :P

Anyway lets calculate the total usd shall we and lets keep it simple and go for pay per year option only or else cost would be way higher
1st account 12.23562 years =1040 euro(pay per year of 80 bucks)
2nd account 12.23562 years =1040 euro(pay per year of 80 bucks)
3rd account 70% of the time prem so 7.51013699 years = 640(pay per year of 80 bucks)
4th account 1.68493 years = 160 euro(pay per year of 80 bucks)
5th account has had a total of maybe a year and 2-3 months prem so lets make that 120 euro for the sake of it

Total cost= 3000 euro on prem over a 12 year period add in a few years of buying silver for various deeds that an easy 600-700 ontop over a 12 year period add in a bag of keeping another 350 ontop so ya  4k easy
Now lets break this down again to a per month of everything assuming i spend 4050 total so far(its more then that)
4466 days = 146.8272 months

So 4050/146.8272=27.58 euro a month

27 euro for 5 accounts and a lot of ingame silver in my early years

Wurm is cheap you want to know what isnt cheap? Eve online at 15 a month per account and to be anywhere decent at eve you the player will need more then 1 account(and more then 1 graphics card and monitor >.> but lets not go that deep) to fully enjoy all that eve has to offer you are looking at 4-5 accounts kept up with their sub every month total cost of 60 to 75 usd sure we can say "oh but you only need 1 account" Well same thing for wurm you can buy all your enchants you do not NEED a priest or a big deed you can have your farm off deed you can have you animal pen off deed there is no need for a big deed in wurm


Here is the thing everyone here was happy and dandy to keep paying once every 2 months for wurm with rl money or once a month with silver up until this news broke out then suddenly everyone saw the chance to low ball the game and try to force them to lower the price because oh no wurm is so expensive when in reality it really isnt

4k spend on a game like wurm might seem like a month but over a 12 year period? its nothing now this does not include costs for gold 1 and before my bank sadly enough doesnt keep records available for online viewing past 10 years so i cant double check them but safe to say if we where to add those 3 accounts i had then and the way more expensive deeds it be easy around 4500-4700

Remember deeds used to be way more expensive and way smaller with no resize option and higher upkeep and come in a small range of homestead(1 account max) 5x5 or 10x10 a village(max 10 people) 10x10 a 20x20 a 50x50 a 100x100 and i think some more they also had the option to increase village cap to 40 players but double upkeep



So final word after yet another long post wurm is cheap and its worth paying this much for it yes quite a few people do not want to pay for a subscription fee for the flavor of the month game on staem(like wurm will be) and they will be turned away so the current subscription system needs more incentives to convince those people to join but for us those who are hooked and love this game? it is well worth it

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As long as you're not gonna ask for a monthly subscription fee on steam, I guess this might potentially attract a couple players

Otherwise this seems like a big waste of resources

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8 hours ago, wipeout said:

In 10 years of playing league of legends i have spend over 5k on it

 

Wait... did you seriously spend 5K on a free-to-play game? You're joking, right?

 

I would much rather work a little less and have more free time than spend 5k on in-game league of legends items o_O but to each his own I guess

Edited by Dextrome
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Just now, Dextrome said:

 

Wait... did you seriously spend 5K on a free-to-play game? You're joking, right?

No jokes at all bought the game as a physical copy when that was a thing supported the company by buying champs with rp instead of ip way back as ip was hard to come by as it is and rate of champs i wanted to play that where coming out was high
Then the skin here and there that i like so i bought those i never buy into the whole lootbox related stuff but i will gladly spend 20 dollars once in a while on something i like i budget my money so every week i got a set amount of money left over i can spend on anything gaming related(its not a lot mind you) and sometimes thats a new random indy game sometimes its silver in wurm sometimes its a skin in a game or what ever else but over time it all adds up but ya i make it a point to have a set amount of money i can spend on anything gaming related(including saving money for replacement or upgrade parts for my pc)

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9 hours ago, Ekcin said:

 

I do not see yet that the "old" servers get depopulated. I am playing only 1.75 years now, but I won't abandon my friends and allies, my deed, my stuff and my skills. I fail to see many will, except some frantic "marketeers" sniffing opportunities to rip of newbies and disrupt an emerging market (sorry I am that negative about but I dont like that attitude).

 

Oh that's because you've never seen them when they were actually populated

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19 hours ago, Russwoods said:

LOL what a bunch of victims we have here, you pay what you want to pay for the alts, deeds ,services of others, premium accounts, or whatever cause that is what you want to do, nobody make you buy or pay for anything in Wurm, this is a very good game at a very fair price, so what if the OWNERS of this want to go to stream, it is their choice to do that,, you should be grateful that they wanted to make you part of the update ,asking for your input (most places would not have care about the customer service Rolf and the crew just have shown to you) they would have just made the changes and moved on not caring about you as a customer would think), if you want to show support to the Dev team and all of the great people at Wurm please do so, but to complain is very childish, so now let all of the haters  full my box with messages so I can delete them, cause people here is making my head hurt with your foolishness, but I will say what ever the Wurm team does I will forever support them, cause of all of the good years I have had in this game

The point most people are trying to make is that the subscription fee is scaring off any potential new players. I don't care if it's expensive or not, I don't care if you like throwing hundreds of euros per year on 1 game. All I want is more players...

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5 minutes ago, Dextrome said:

The point most people are trying to make is that the subscription fee is scaring off any potential new players. I don't care if it's expensive or not, I don't care if you like throwing hundreds of euros per year on 1 game. All I want is more players...

New players do NOTHING for this game if the game is not making money off them.

 

 

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1 minute ago, necroe said:

New players do NOTHING for this game if the game is not making money off them.

 

 

 

I really don't see the point of playing on WO servers when there's not enough trade or pvp... I'll just stick to WU then

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35 minutes ago, necroe said:

New players do NOTHING for this game if the game is not making money off them.

 

 

actualy the new players arent the one making money

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4 minutes ago, tamat said:

actualy the new players arent the one making money

What?

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1 hour ago, necroe said:

New players do NOTHING for this game if the game is not making money off them.

 

 

That is false. New players add excitement to a game just by being there, a sense of the game world being alive and dynamic, the worldscape changing every day, and they encourage yet more players to join into the game.  They give veteran players a feeling of purpose -- someone to teach the ropes, lend a hand, explain a game mechanic. Someone even to laugh at, with the same goodwill that you might laugh at a puppy tripping over its own ears. 

 

They are in a sense, NEW CONTENT for old players. They are new friends and new villagers and sometimes new customers.  Not all players have much extra spendable money, but the ones who DO have money are more likely to spend money -- and to spend larger amounts of money -- on a game that feels alive and vibrant, where they have other people to chat with, new people to meet, new situations happening every day.

 

New players do not cost the game money.  The servers were designed to easily run with 10x the current population, adding another 500-900 new players does not add much to the overhead of that.

 

Empty towns, decaying deeds, vanishing friends list ALL COST THE GAME MONEY. 

 

No one wants to spend money on a game that feels like it might fold before year's end.  Bustling towns, new kids bouncing off the walls, exploring, asking questions, give the game a sense of a FUTURE.  People who can invest more into the game, are much more likely to do so if the game doesn't feel dead.   Guess what -- Wurm feels dead.  New blood and new faces are what is going to change that.  New players are not freeloaders -- even the ones who never spend a dime on the game. 

 

If a thousand new people joined the game, and half of them NEVER spend a cent, the game is still a hundred times better off than it was before.  People who discover a new game, are also more likely to discuss it with excitement and passion to family and to friends and people who they know enjoy gaming. They act as free advertising.

  

They cost nothing. but they add a lot of value.

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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