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Rolf

Steam and new Product Manager

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1 hour ago, kochinac said:

its not an easy task

Im not saying i am expert or even novice what comes to coding, but i know its painfully time consuming and hard. Never said its an easy task. It might not justify the investment, or it might. Besides, wurm 2.0, could start as "classic" version, but updated to this day. Forget rifts, cooking, demigods, gods, kingdoms, fishing updates etc. Add them/something else entirely bit by bit when code is tweaked to work with the new base code. My understanding of coding here is irrelevant tho, i am just trying to bring ideas/wishes to the table rather than arguing here with other players about my or someone elses understanding, its irrelevant.

 

Playerbase is dying, also literally, no offence, but we need new blood in the game if it means to survive and that comes with certain requirements and all we as players can do is try to support the game by throwing ideas of improvement and money towards devs and hope for miracle.

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3 minutes ago, Themystrix said:

Im not saying i am expert or even novice what comes to coding, but i know its painfully time consuming and hard. Never said its an easy task. It might not justify the investment, or it might. Besides, wurm 2.0, could start as "classic" version, but updated to this day. Forget rifts, cooking, demigods, gods, kingdoms, fishing updates etc. Add them/something else entirely bit by bit when code is tweaked to work with the new base code. My understanding of coding here is irrelevant tho, i am just trying to bring ideas/wishes to the table rather than arguing here with other players about my or someone elses understanding, its irrelevant.

 

Playerbase is dying, also literally, no offence, but we need new blood in the game if it means to survive and that comes with certain requirements and all we as players can do is try to support the game by throwing ideas of improvement and money towards devs and hope for miracle.

I'm sorry but when you suggest something to be done, your knowledge and experience about the matter is quite relevant. I do have 5 years of experience working in IT as software developer and my carier may not be so long but i reckon i have something to backup my statements with as i have participated in developing products from scratch, deploying products to production for hundreds of user to use them daily inherited bunch of old projects i had to make modifications to while they are in everyday use. Talking about "Wurm 2.0" without clearly defining (both technically and functionally) what it is , is talking jiberish.

Me saying it's not an easy task is understatement, what i meant is it's not an easy task to the point it's futile. Excpecialy like you now suggested with removing plethora of functionalities and starting over like we used time machine to bring as 20 years in the past but bringing with us new technologies and our better brains and developing to another 10 years to get to the point where we are now with functionalities is i'm sorry but ridiculous.

Yes playerbase is dying, but no offence this is the worse suggestion to fix that. Rewrites are made at peak of strength when they can be afforded, not as last resort. Also rewrite doesn't have to be total, you can slowly start to rewrite part by part with more or less time, effect and succes(we are mainly speaking about refactoring here now), and i'm sure wurm team does that from time to time, not need to start from scratch but nasty stuff everything you rewrite, you need to retest.

Like i said wurm 2.0 is utopian jiberish that can have so many meanings and people should stop talking about it (like what do you want, to rewrite game using some engine like unity or unreal? refactor wurms game engine in java, rewrite wurms engine in another language like C++) and more important what do you think will be gained by that?

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5 hours ago, kochinac said:

I'm sorry but when you suggest something to be done, your knowledge and experience about the matter is quite relevant. I do have 5 years of experience working in IT as software developer and my carier may not be so long but i reckon i have something to backup my statements with as i have participated in developing products from scratch, deploying products to production for hundreds of user to use them daily inherited bunch of old projects i had to make modifications to while they are in everyday use. Talking about "Wurm 2.0" without clearly defining (both technically and functionally) what it is , is talking jiberish.

Me saying it's not an easy task is understatement, what i meant is it's not an easy task to the point it's futile. Excpecialy like you now suggested with removing plethora of functionalities and starting over like we used time machine to bring as 20 years in the past but bringing with us new technologies and our better brains and developing to another 10 years to get to the point where we are now with functionalities is i'm sorry but ridiculous.

Yes playerbase is dying, but no offence this is the worse suggestion to fix that. Rewrites are made at peak of strength when they can be afforded, not as last resort. Also rewrite doesn't have to be total, you can slowly start to rewrite part by part with more or less time, effect and succes(we are mainly speaking about refactoring here now), and i'm sure wurm team does that from time to time, not need to start from scratch but nasty stuff everything you rewrite, you need to retest.

Like i said wurm 2.0 is utopian jiberish that can have so many meanings and people should stop talking about it (like what do you want, to rewrite game using some engine like unity or unreal? refactor wurms game engine in java, rewrite wurms engine in another language like C++) and more important what do you think will be gained by that?

I guess by your reasoning the game should just be trashed and given up then cuz the kids today want flashy particles, twitch combat and flashy smooth graphics and wurm is looking as old as dinosaur turds

 

Kochis an expert, the game isn't worth saving or doing a number2

 

and also. if its impossible to modernize wurm, how did life Is feudal do it?

 

I am out of this thread, talking about bringing wurm into todays level of competitiveness seems beyond most people imagination

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@rolf @retrograde Thanks for keeping the playerbase in the loop about possible future developments.  I played Wurm Online for many years.  I am wondering if you can please let us know whether our current deeds and skillsets will be merged with the Steam plans or will we have to start from scratch?  Will we retain what we have now, e.g. armor, tools, deeds, and previous unique presents or will we lose it all to have to start again? What is the timeframe for all of this to happen (if at all)?  If it does not happen, what is the future plans for current Wurm Online servers?  These are important questions for quite a few of the current playerbase and it would be great if we could get some answers. 

Thanks

Edited by Fairyshine
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From what I gather we all start anew, no use making a new server to entice new players if the vets bring everything they own to the party. Anything you own and skillset on WO stays the same, just the steam version will be starting from the beginning

Edited by Rhianna

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2 minutes ago, Rhianna said:

From what I gather we all start anew, no use making a new server to entice new players if the vets bring everything they own to the party. Anything you own and skillset on WO stays the same, just the steam version will be starting from the beginning

So, if the current WO is then abandoned, what is the use playing there now? Paying deed upkeep, building skills, doing anything basically?

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3 hours ago, Wiolo said:

You guys sure are good at creating problems for Retrograde.

he is better than us in that

Edited by tamat
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24 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

So, if the current WO is then abandoned, what is the use playing there now? Paying deed upkeep, building skills, doing anything basically?

it isn't entirely being abandoned, just opening 2 new servers on steam.

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53 minutes ago, Rhianna said:

it isn't entirely being abandoned, just opening 2 new servers on steam.

I guess I want Rolf or Retro to give an official response on this for the current playerbase.

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28 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

I guess I want Rolf or Retro to give an official response on this for the current playerbase.

 

On 9/30/2019 at 2:24 PM, Rolf said:

Yes the current plan is to open new servers, at least one pvp and one pve. Although they will use the same account server you will not be able to travel or trade between these and the old servers.

 

 

I hope that's enough of an answer?

 

Thorin :) 

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16 hours ago, Wimblonian said:

Surprised your comment wasn't removed. Also I am slightly confused on why we are switching to steam like Wurm Unlimited was supposed to promote this game wasn't it?  It just slaughtered the population into 1/5 of it's original population. I am quite sure just as many people play current Wurm Unlimited as do WO, or are we supposed to be pretending WU has some massive population? 

I don’t think that the aim is to draw in W-Unlimited players from Steam, rather draw in new players from the large pool of potential players that is Steam. As has been said, the Steam release would just be a launcher that directs to a separate cluster of servers that is still tied in with the current login server, but with blank accounts for everyone there(that’s what I understand, anyway). So if some players that find the game from Steam want to come and see the history on the OG Wurm, then they can. And if some OG players want to go start fresh on Steam, then they can do that too without having to make a new account. I guess my point is, it probably won’t increase the rate of overall population decline.

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22 minutes ago, MinorArchitect said:

 And if some OG players want to go start fresh on Steam, then they can do that too without having to make a new account.

See:

On 9/23/2019 at 10:39 AM, Rolf said:

The account databases will most probably be the same so you can't register MrJonnyboy on Steam if the account is created already. So if MrJonnyboy is premium on existing servers you can't play him on the Steam servers since the account already exists. If you create MrJonnyboyTwo via Steam you can prem him up via Steam. You will probably be able to prem him up via our website as well but we'll have to sort that out carefully due to Valve's RMT restrictions. 

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13 hours ago, Ekcin said:

It is depressing how the "they are banning a lot and very injustly" tales are spouted again and again. During the 1.75 years of my Wurm time all serious disciplinaries have been transparently reported. And it is plain unfair and demagogic to state

where this incident has been communicated transparently, and all but the perpetrator were released and compensated (though I personally doubt their complete innocence and ignorance about the exploit at least somewhat). There was nothing to object about such staff conduct. The "victims" loudly complained again and again though, and even now the event is mispresented again.

 

Also, citing alleged and impossibly verifiable wrongdoings or exaggerations by admins over more than a decade is simply counterproductive and should be refrained from. Maybe, even most probably staff decisions have not always been perfect, especially not against an unruly crowd which made a sport out of ridiculing and aggressively attacking the staff as I could witness in the forums even just lately. Less ruthless conduct will certainly cause less strict and sometimes overly reactions.

 

For steam, it should be clear that disciplinaries and warnings against avatars or accounts (players) are not forgotten and forgiven when a new server or cluster starts. Those who received a ban for assaulting a staff member will certainly not be allowed to resub on servers maintained and developped by the same staff.

 


You dont hear from every ban that gets done some are recent some are years old quite a few predating your wurm playtime you say all serious actions have been transparently reported? i call ###### on this as it has not been the case at all only the big cases(russian botters, big group of pvper's using exploits that kinda thing) get reported on the average joe being caught for macro usage gets the silent treatment until an cry for information is done and then they come out and say it
From what you talk about i am guessing the whole wurm uni group getting a 14 day ban due to a bug to walk through cave wall thing, It was simple 1 guy who knew the bug was into play(yet again) decided to string along a naive young kid and 2 other people into helping him out get into a otherwise reinforced mine to steal stuff out of it and before any kind of investigating had been done bans where handed out based on a random list of names that where given and only when people cried out time and time again did the team start to actually look into it and even then they could not instantly find out who really did what but that whole time people who where offline or where not even part of that small group of people had their accounts banned until the uproar got too much and they where unbanned
This wasn't a case of guilty people yelling claiming they are innocent this was a case of a kingdom as a whole standing up for innocent players and even telling the guilty party to come forward and tell the gms how it was done and get video proof of how it was done this was people trying to get the truth to be out there so that a shitty unfair ruling could be overruled
This case lead to a change in how gms handle things(the tipping point as to "oh ###### we gotta change how we handle things") which is a good outcome from such a shitty case

You say it is counter productive and should be refrained from i beg to differ the reason i stated those is simple the topic is "people who claim that they could be banned at any time for anything are completely wrong" then such events need to be listed to show as to why people start to feel like they could be banned for something that isnt a rule breaking as they do happen sure a lot less now then a couple of years ago(before your play time) which is a plus point for the current team but when you look at the long history wurm has the trust in the gm team keeps being destroyed time and time again due to a handful of gms ruining it for the rest

From using the bug tracker that the gms have to grind skills to item spawning and handing out to their friends to unfair bans and very long mutes to spying on enemy kingdoms, These are some of the actions that the bad apple gms have done in the past both distant and recent past and sure the average joe wont hear about these cases much if at all but if you stick around long enough befriend enough long time players you start to hear similar stories from people all over every old kingdom on chaos had similar stories of gm abuse from gm's who where players of other kingdoms(this often is just wrong but sometimes its correct) then you have stories of past gms of their exploits(Emoo has a really fun one on independence that i still remember clear as day) 

A new player does not have the "Oh look at how much good the gms do" experiences that we do if you where to check out this game a few months ago when everyone was complaining and topic after topic about pvp issues was being made by angry players and the staff team being silent or just egging everything on you would turn around and walk away as you would think this is a dying game im out of here no way im spending money on a game that wont last much longer
That is the thing that needs to be fixed the way they have dealt with things in the past just doesnt work its the signs of a "we will deal with issues when they come up even though we can prevent them now" kinda attitude its the signs of a team who knows how to do stuff but not exactly how to do it properly and with such a thing as a possible big release on steam you want to come across as a team that knows exactly what to do and tries their best not just string you along

Last year 754 games where released on steam per month(total of 9050) if wurm has to have a chance of sticking out in between that many games it not only has to uplift the experience wurm has but the overall effort the team puts in in handling new issues as if wurm does well and say gets 1-2k new players or maybe 5-6k even(who knows) you can dam well know that grieving on a large scale will come back you dam well can count on it that the amount of people macroing or making macro's for the game will increase the amount of people who will poke around in wu code to try and find exploits or more efficient ways to grind in wo will increase too


The staff needs to be ready to deal with this and as it stands they can hardly handle the 15-20 old pvp's who cant ###### and moan at each other as chaos is dead so they ###### and moan at retro all day long and even that small group is too much for them to handle with vague answers and conflicting information and sprinkling tiny bits of info left and right in streams random forum posts and what instead of centralized

Take the whole "We will make some major changes for pvp by the end of the year" "promise" they made and then was broken in favor of wurm on steam this is once again yet another promise that was broken for the pvp crew the guys who will sink hunderds of dollars of store brought silver into their deeds and into the wurm market to make and maintain their kingdoms the whales in this game get punished while we the average player get new stuff(as it should be) but it makes them upset and they yell loudly and will continue to yell until they loose interest and move on(and so do their wallets)


So when the topic comes up where a member of the staff team says that the players are completely wrong on something people just cant help but laugh at it and not take it serious and point out issues with those statements now it is true that if you stick your head in the ground only trade on the forums and in trade chat and talk in local and sometimes in global and you mostly stick to yourself you wont ever be banned that is correct but if you are part of a kingdom and that kingdom does a raid and 1 person does an exploit well say goodbye to your clean record as you have a chance to enjoy a 2 week vacation for as much as being part of that raid and that makes people angry and upset and thats why topics like this are derailed

The pvp community(rolf has said quite a few times in the past that he wanted the entire game to be pvp only) pays a lot of euro to wurm no matter what kingdom as the wurm economy is dead and no kingdom can survive on exports of kingdom banners and the likes nor on selling tools so these guys and girls spend hundreds of dollars per year on this game and what do they get in return from the staff? bans and mistreatment and resentment due to gms being part of the enemy kingdom and they are taking your support ticket(dont even get started on people who are part of the team who just close tickets because they dont like the person who made the ticket) so its only fair that they voice their anger on the forums here so when everything then goes to ###### well this happens months upon months of frustration from old players and pvpers alike coming out now instead of later




TLDR: retro says players are wrong players say they arent

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NOTICE: i realized after i was getting argumentative earlier i had forgotten to take my mental meds a few days and was going psychotic.. so i logged off the forums and took my meds

 

Don't go insane kids, it sux

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7 hours ago, LumpyGravy said:

I guess by your reasoning the game should just be trashed and given up then cuz the kids today want flashy particles, twitch combat and flashy smooth graphics and wurm is looking as old as dinosaur turds

 

Kochis an expert, the game isn't worth saving or doing a number2

 

and also. if its impossible to modernize wurm, how did life Is feudal do it?

 

I am out of this thread, talking about bringing wurm into todays level of competitiveness seems beyond most people imagination

Lol, never said most of that and you still don't get it.

Life is feudal modernized wurm? Lol

Life is feudal is another game by another Wurm that has nothing to do with Wurm beside having similar theme and somewhat simmilar functionalities...

From what i saw Samool did a lot of modernizing Wurm from the graphic side. And we shall see what new UI will bring, there are also qol changes, nobody says that wurm cant be modernized as wurm is modernized all the time.

All i'm saying that your jibbering about writing another game from scratch that is like Wurm is not vilable for dev team. Still lacking your answer what exactly you want?

Instead of talking about imaginary wurm 2.0 suggest concrete things that should be done to modernize it.

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1 hour ago, wipeout said:

You dont hear from every ban that gets done some are recent some are years old quite a few predating your wurm playtime you say all serious actions have been transparently reported?

 

This sounds like the rants of a couple in divorce listing all wrongdoings from decades, and is similarly idiotic and counterproductive. There have been other, probably more bans in the past, there have been more transgressions as well, and of course there have almost certainly been errors, mistakes, and questionable decisions by the staff. The FUD "you don't hear .." is nil. I am sure if there would have been a rantable ban in the time I play, the always whining "PvP community" would have chewed on it again and again as you do with always the same incident

 

Quote

From what you talk about i am guessing the whole wurm uni group getting a 14 day ban  ..

 

having chewed on at least 20 times in this thread alone. So I say: Sorry, I do not believe you. If there would have been substantial bans during the last 2 (or prolly more than 2) years the "PvP community" would have cried out about again and again. 

 

Quote

This wasn't a case of guilty people yelling claiming they are innocent this was a case of a kingdom as a whole standing up for innocent players and even telling the guilty party to come forward and tell the gms how it was done and get video proof of how it was done this was people trying to get the truth to be out there so that a shitty unfair ruling could be overruled

This case lead to a change in how gms handle things(the tipping point as to "oh ###### we gotta change how we handle things") which is a good outcome from such a shitty case

 

As far as I could see the ruling against the whole raid team was announced to be temporary from the very beginning. As I have no experience in breaking rules I have no means to figure whether the team handled them better or worse over a timeline. But I agree that "The Gallows" (Enki humour) is a great step towards transparency, and it is nothing less than common in computer games and MMOs. I recall in other games, from LP muds to MMOs I have advocated making more serious disciplinaries more public for transparency, often told that company-customer relations are not to be revealed. Yet if you admit an improvement, why all that pestering over bans?

 

Quote

A new player does not have the "Oh look at how much good the gms do" experiences that we do if you where to check out this game a few months ago when everyone was complaining and topic after topic about pvp issues was being made by angry players and the staff team being silent or just egging everything on you would turn around and walk away as you would think this is a dying game im out of here no way im spending money on a game that wont last much longer

 

I have read through all those threads. Often they were dominated by "players" who at the same time bragged not to have played Wurm for 1, 2, even 4 years. And when it came to the team taking action, planning Elevation reset, taking proposals, and even making polls, some of the "PvP community" contributed, others continued to pester. And the Elevation 3 experience showed the utter failure of that "PvP community". Before, they had bragged they would return in the hundreds on substantial changes, and when the server came that realized many of their demands, meager 150 at peak appeared, only to abandon the new toy like a bored spoiled brat after a short time, without any attempt to evaluate the potential of the changes, analyzing what should have and be done better, testing the new features like change in siege mechanics, draining deeds, etc. All that would have taken months.

 

This blatant failure of the "PvP community" is making me mad and angry about that crowd. I had hoped to join some nice and thrilling PvP and having fun with friends and foes once I had developed my main PvE character enough and learnt sufficiently about the game. But it is obvious that there is no playerhood around to make that possible. These hateful venomous folks carrying out their "forum PvP" instead of decent fights on the PvP servers are certainly not candidates to play with.

 

Quote

[risk of unruly players on steam release ..]
The staff needs to be ready to deal with this and as it stands they can hardly handle the 15-20 old pvp's who cant ..

 

It seems to me they can handle them given the loud whining. New offenders will certainly have to face disciplinaries no less than the old ones.

 

Quote

Take the whole "We will make some major changes for pvp by the end of the year" "promise" they made and then was broken in favor of wurm on steam

 

I think that steam was to a wide extent a reaction on the "PvP community's" complete failure on Elevation 3. If I were CC I would prolly have aborted all work on Elevation after this outcome as it is a waste of time and money. Instead they only postponed it. Hardly a broken promise, or a minor one given the promises of the "PvP community" about Elevation reset and overhaul.

 

Quote

The pvp community(rolf has said quite a few times in the past that he wanted the entire game to be pvp only) pays a lot of euro to wurm  of later

 

Some still do most seem to have gone. Maybe there will be changes towards the better with those remaining and maybe fresh blood coming in washing away the rotten attitudes of the old ghouls. Maybe PvP is possible then, again. As to Rolf's original vision: Strangely, most game inventors or lead developers in all games I experienced envision "their" worlds as widely PvP dominated. In the course of development and emergence of player communities it works out that the bread and butter, and a resilient and long time player base stems from PvE mainly.

 

To end my rants about the recent toxic PvPers: There are structural flaws in Wurm PvP I have been trying to analyze and understand and granted, am not fully through. Fact is that PvP in Wurm to a wide extent is Deed vs Deed warfare. This may be or have been good for CC cash for a while but I am unsure whether this model is sustainable and attractive for the future, and working in a situation of relatively tiny player numbers. Maybe the overhaul must go deeper.

 

Quote

TLDR: retro says players are wrong players say they arent

I say too that "the players" pestering about the past are wrong. Thanks for your attention.

Edited by Ekcin

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7 hours ago, Rhianna said:

From what I gather we all start anew, no use making a new server to entice new players if the vets bring everything they own to the party. Anything you own and skillset on WO stays the same, just the steam version will be starting from the beginning

 

7 hours ago, Rhianna said:

it isn't entirely being abandoned, just opening 2 new servers on steam.

 

Which will result in veterans moving to those new servers, thus the current servers become even more deserted. It encourages new players to go to the new servers, thus even less new blood arriving at the current servers. The feeling of them being abandoned, specially without a hard date for when the new servers are merged into the current cluster, does not seem invalid to me. Though this does assume that new accounts made through steam can only go to the new servers, if they can also go to the existing servers then this is less of an issue, as all the player made wonders on those servers can be very enticing, especially after a few months once the enticing part of a new start has completely worn off.

 

Why would veterans move to those new servers? Well, there's one thing that's far more valuable and impactful than their skillset and the stuff they own, that's their knowledge of how the game works. That knowledge allows them to easily dominate in a new environment. So while new players are still trying to grasp the game the veterans will already have shops up and dominate the market. It really doesn't matter if they get to bring their stuff and skillset to the party or not, it's their knowledge that gives them a massive head start on new players, you can't wipe that unless you change the way the entire game works.

Edited by Ecrir
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5 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Which will result in veterans moving to those new servers, thus the current servers become even more deserted.

 

"Moving to the new servers" would mean to give up or at least freeze everything on the current servers. Opening a steam account and creating an alt there, yes maybe. Subbing there, questionable, a few will do. Grinding skills from begin (even if the entry skill levels are raised in the name of "QoL") is doubtful to be adopted by more than a few.

 

5 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Why would veterans move to those new servers? Well, there's one thing that's far more valuable and impactful than their skillset and the stuff they own, that's their knowledge of how the game works. That knowledge allows them to easily dominate in a new environment.

 

Well, I am not a "veteran" given that I am playing Wurm less than 2 years. I have gained some experience and insight into the game in this period of time though. But it is virtually unthinkable for me to abandon my friends, my alliance, my deed, and my skills only to "dominate". What the f* is it worth to "dominate"? Granted, others may think differently about. The only thing I could consider would be creating a character on the PvP server if (and only if) a fresh PvP community would evolve there free from bitterness and destructivity of the current PvPers.

 

But yes, you are right that experienced players have better chances, even at start, compared to newcomers. Only, if attracting motivated new players, they may catch up to a wide extent in a relatively short period of time. Personally, after bit more than 20 months playing Wurm, I do not see myself so far behind the average of Wurm players, and that should be possible to everybody playing Wurm on steam with some intensity. Also, players on the steam servers may become curious about the established servers and want to open an account and create characters there. Even an opening of "ogwo" to "stwo" after WO on steam having matured has not been ruled out by Rolf and Retro.

 

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18 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Why would veterans move to those new servers? Well, there's one thing that's far more valuable and impactful than their skillset and the stuff they own, that's their knowledge of how the game works. That knowledge allows them to easily dominate in a new environment. So while new players are still trying to grasp the game the veterans will already have shops up and dominate the market. It really doesn't matter if they get to bring their stuff and skillset to the party or not, it's their knowledge that gives them a massive head start on new players, you can't wipe that unless you change the way the entire game works.

Lets not forget a group of 5-10 veterans all focusing on 1-2 skills max can reach 70+ in a skill within a month or 2 time the group im part of we already got most things planned out on what we gonna do
We got our dedicated miner,blacksmith,mason,carpenter,farmer,weapon smith,digger(terraforming the deed and farm land) and 2 other people who have yet to decide on a role so the moment wurm hits steam and its up we go there we find a spot setup camp and within a month ql 50 tools will be a thing that will be sold at a price that no new person can beat

As much as i love the aspect and keep hammering that the staff have to do this right me as a player and the group im part of we are going to be exactly like everyone fears we will sit there and mass make high quality tools and enchants we will sit there sell bulk goods in quantities that are hard to come by we will sit there and sell rares at prices that are high but fair and unless thousands come in the economy will be ruled by groups like ours and we will make the silver of it and stash it away or use it for upkeep and other things and we wont really pump much back into buying other things
On jackal our group is self sufficient too 5 priests 6 sermon alts dedicated people to 1-2 skills and we already have ql 89 iron ore stockpiled at half a bsb full and rising and the tools to back it up
If you have a group of veterans in any game like this it will always happen unless you somehow keep us from playing there

As for your last part even if you change the way the entire game works a group like ours will just spend a week or 2 figuring out the basics trying things collecting data sharing in between each other and figuring out the best ways to grind and make money we got pages upon pages of data on ways of how to grind of how to do certain skills the quickest for daily use how to efficiently shape rock the list goes on no matter the change to the game a group like that will figure it out in no time
Then again we kinda do this to most games we start playing 

Also we started new accounts when the pristine and release cluster came out we started on wu to mess around test out ways to grind better in wurm we started on xanadu on challenge we will start again on wo on steam not because as Ekcin makes it seem like we would give up on normal wurm and abandon everyone but because we can run multiple clients(atm got 10 open myself as i write this just for the jackal sermon party and 3 priests) on multiple pcs we are setup in normal wurm with little to do but grind or rebuild deeds we want a new proper start from scratch that will be there still 1-2 years later and will have an economy to speak off and hey if it takes 5 years before the steam wo server links up to normal wurm so be it in those 5 years we can nicely collect a few hundred gold if enough players come in and once the servers link up we can drop our deeds on those new servers and throw everything we have on the old servers on our already established deeds and not pay for upkeep for years to come
And if they dont link up well the we got a lot of upkeep for our deed and we can buy drake sets and other insanely useful things early on at high prices easy

 



Anyway the only way to counter something like that is make the buying market too big for a group like ours to take a huge slice of and dominate so attract loads of people please and thank you ;)

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11 hours ago, LumpyGravy said:

My statement it looks old and crappy still stands

 

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE WURM, but im over 50 years old.... the kids today wouldn't touch a game that looks like this at all

they dont really have a choice tho, if they make the steam servers as grindy as the wo ones, the game will flop and it will receive negative reviews out the whaazoo. Steam players hate that kind of grind.

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Actually...

 

Most negative reviews come from PAY TO WIN grind.

 

There is a subtle difference there.

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44 minutes ago, wipeout said:

lots of stuff

Modest question: Did you ever enjoy the game?

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12 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

Modest question: Did you ever enjoy the game?

Its a game i grew up with and its a 1 of a kind game that i just love the building aspect of anything terraforming/deed creation i love
I will happily sit there mining out veins for days on end make 300 high dirt walls raise a 50x50 200+ high on steepest point above a steppe(was working on this when jkh went down :( ) i love this game a lot so ya did i ever enjoy this game? yes do i still right now? yes

The reason im this vocal is because i love this game but i also know that the market is a lucrative thing and without using and abusing that you cant get certain things you need when you are a person who hates improving ;) so i will happily sit there grind my mining to 90+ and fill a bsb with ql 90 iron ore and sell that on the market so that i can use that silver to buy things i cant get(like i do right now)

I live paycheck to paycheck and even when i was in periods where i didnt have a job i still set aside money bit by bit so that i can keep my prem going for wurm even if i go periods without actually doing anything meaningful but click the button on the side of my mouse and hold it down every 12-14 seconds for an entire day as i mine out yet another vein or spend an entire week or month clearing a forest

Even if they added in stupid mini games to prevent bots(like at 1 point they where thinking of because rs did it) and 99% off the players would quit id still keep playing it and still find ways to enjoy it

I will sit there and complain about how the game is run and the direction it goes but i will sit there on the last day of this game on the last server gathering resources or building a deed until the last server shuts down there isnt anything like wurm and for me wurm is what i want in a game sure with some changes here and there(well a lot) but the core of what wurm is is what i always looked for in a game before i found wurm years upon years ago on the java forums where rolf asked a question about an issue he had for a game he was working on since those early days i have been hooked and i will prob still be there right at the end
Meanwhile i will ###### and moan and complain and air my frustration all the while paying for 3-4 accounts and happily working away ;)

edit: Too add if i could i would happily pay to keep all my 4 priests prem next to my 2 "mains" that i have but with an exchange rate of 1 Euro equals 1.75 New Zealand Dollar that becomes quite expensive to do once a year

Edited by wipeout
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