Oblivionnreaver

Jackal skillgain

Recommended Posts

Looking back at logs and comparing my alts freedom grind to my grind on jackal currently, the numbers aren't matching up to what's said to be "epic x 2" skillgain

Freedom

[2019-08-05] [12:58:43] Channeling increased by 0.0100 to 73.6340

30 second cast, 1x affinity meal, 99 nutrition, sleep bonus. Would be 0.636 skill an hour assuming 53% tickrate and no downtime

Jackal

[06:09:19] Channeling increased by 0.0065 to 73.7652

30 second cast, 1x affinity meal, 99 nutrition, sleep bonus. Would be 0.78 skill an hour assuming 100% tickrate and no downtime.

Assuming that the server was never increased from "3x to 4x" after some complaints that would be 0.585 skill an hour, or less skill than freedom, despite being epic x 1.5 skillgain apparently.

 

Jackal

[2019-09-27] [18:33:10] Mining increased by 0.0010 to 68.6313

[2019-09-27] [19:33:43] Mining increased by 0.0007 to 68.8894

72 coc, 98.2% skillgain rate, .0.2581 an hour.

Freedom

[2019-09-07] [15:31:11] Mining increased by 0.0084 to 70.5870

[2019-09-07] [15:51:50] Mining increased by 0.0078 to 71.0472

20 minutes on sleep bonus, so we can consider this 40 minutes no sb. 87 coc pick. 0.4602 mining in 40 minutes, or 0.6903 an hour

 

What's the deal with this? this is not 2x anything except 2x chopping kindling for body strength.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wasnt channeling one of the rng yolo grinds giving 'rng' ticks based on results of the action?

you could have bad rng with the casts to get lower skill for the same time?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, isnt Fighting, Meditation, and some other skills basically identical as on freedom? How will that work with the skill transfer? Will we get a 1:1 transfer or what?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what i have been saying since week 1 even made a long ass pm to retro about it and made several posts and talked about it a few times in global chat and elsewhere even threw it into powerbi (something i use for work and have posted up here before on the forums how it looks) to examine the slow decline in skill gain per tick over time and that actually drops off faster then normal wurm for most skills

Now there are a handful of skills(probably the ones that where tested during this new system and they said yep this works fine its faster) that do go faster like woodcutting or digging but anything that is heavy rng(channel) or action time = skill gain(like mining) or a complex skill(like mining again) are all slower and scale down way faster then normal too

And dont forget about weapon smiting its 1 that gets slower even faster then anything and is a pain in the ass to get started so ya you dont want us to grind you want us to fight and work as a community but with the way certain skills work and stuff seems messed up you say 1 thing while your actions say a whole other thing

Edited by wipeout
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jackal is the hunting grinding server you all asked for

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..not exactly..

 it's having all the colors different people asked for.. but it's 1 rainbow square.. not a stack of colored squares that was asked for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Finnn said:

wasnt channeling one of the rng yolo grinds giving 'rng' ticks based on results of the action?

you could have bad rng with the casts to get lower skill for the same time?

 

channeling works exactly like mining, you need a cast 1-40 power for skillgain (nearly every skill works like this). tick size is always stable as thats based on timer length which doesnt change for spells with the exception of the server lagging out.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/28/2019 at 4:45 PM, Vomusu said:

Also, isnt Fighting, Meditation, and some other skills basically identical as on freedom? How will that work with the skill transfer? Will we get a 1:1 transfer or what?

 

To be fair they have not announced how much % of skills  will transfer but i imagine it would be easier for them to set up a system where it draws just a % rather than doing it per individual skill even tho a limited number of them like fighting etc. could be that way.

 

I am ok with med not being 1:1 since you can med on jackal and using a loadstone on deed can meditate on freedom too.

 

I think the main concern is people bringing their priests on jackal and using them as crafters to buff stats considering they have no restrictions here. It would not be fair for a priest toon to go 1:1 xp with an unpriested freedom toon. Saying it even tho my 2 toons i play on jackal are priests on freedom and sent them there for the stats.

 

But both you and OR have a point. The xp gain on Jackal is nowhere near what is advertised and i for one did not get to 70fs there with a 40ql weapon and no LT just to get back on freedom with 20fs.

 

And they can say: yeh but jackal is for fighting and skins. Yeh but then i should just stay on freedom and buy a skin i like not spend 6 months there and have almost nothing to show for after 6 months  in terms of xp compared with a freedom player that put the same ammount of effort in grinding their toon skills in a freedom server.

 

And is not like they don't have an interest in us playing jackal because then we will have deeds on 2 servers and prem toons we may not have if no jackal around. So they are making more money if jackal is worth the trouble. If not... well.. good luck with the next one:) Make the map a desert since it will be deserted:)

 

What will eventually happen is people will grind on freedom waiting for the jackal fortress to be unlocked then go in buy a 70ql weapon with LT and spend a  week-end grinding fs to 70 then going and getting the skin they wanted by clearing the fortress thing.

 

So now they will end up with 6 months of xp on freedom and the skin from jackal with spending 1-2s for 70ql weap and armor while the sucker that sat and cleared the rifts, grinded weaponsmithing and channeling on jackal at an xp rate lower than freedom (as proven by OR in the 1st post) will end up with 20s and 10% xp of the entire grind.  And if the jackal crafters will set steep prices for those items they can just not buy them and wait on freedom to buy the skin.

 

 

 

Edited by Cipacadrinho
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed similar Oblivion... Skill per hour seems to be the same unless you go SB, then you see much faster gains.

 

I think since the 4x exp gain and 3x speed, we only get like... 25% more exp? lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Also there are not gems from praying:

 

[12:43:50] Prayer increased by 0.0028 to 55.1149

 

Got shrooms 1iron coins and the ocasional potion but not a single gem to vessel. I did get gems from mining but never from praying.

 

L.E. My mistake not 50 faith yet.

Edited by Cipacadrinho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not 4x the freedom system. 

 

It's the hybrid skill system at a 4x modifier. Sorry if the 4x had people confused expecting 4x freedom ticks but that was never the case. 

It's also not a % of existing skills that will transfer, it's something else based on information we record on jackal. 

 

The rate is a matter of adjusting a tweaking to feel rewarding, but don't expect it to be faster than grinding in freedom as it's not intended as an accelerated grinding opportunity 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

It's the hybrid skill system at a 4x modifier

so at 68.8894 mining on 1x i should have been expecting 15 hours per point?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

but don't expect it to be faster than grinding in freedom as it's not intended as an accelerated grinding opportunity 

I guess i should clarify. I'm not expecting it to be 4x freedom, and i'n not expecting it to be some super grind place, but the server is temporary, you'll have to grind these things every time, and arguably one of the most important skills for making gear is mining, as the ql of your iron is essentially a hard cap on how high you can push your gear. Mining, as it currently is, is about equal with weaponsmithing for skill/hour on jackal, and grinding weaponsmithing is considered by pretty much everyone to be the crazy persons idea of fun. Some of the skills are much faster than freedom, some of the skills are the same speed as freedom, and some of the skills are much slower than freedom, and it seems entirely random which skills are faster and which ones aren't (again, just using freedom skillgain as a baseline as "normal", not expecting it to be freedom x4).

 

] [15:30:18] Woodcutting increased by 0.0120 to 50.0094

[16:30:27] Woodcutting increased by 0.0125 to 52.3850 2.37 skill in an hour, 99botd 96.7%, skillgain rate cutting down fruit trees (majority old/vold/overaged) with saw

 

] [08:21:59] Gardening increased by 0.0086 to 50.3476

[08:51:31] Gardening increased by 0.0111 to 52.9855 30 mins sb = 2.64 skill in an hour, 85coc, 98% skillgain rate gathering mixed grass

 

] [22:09:06] Mining increased by 0.0017 to 50.1209

[23:09:50] Mining increased by 0.0018 to 50.5867 0.46 skill in an hour, 60-64coc, 94% skillgain rate mining rock

 

Comparison of a non-stop hour of 3 different gathering skills, mining is well behind the curve on skillgain at the same levels. On freedom it's just over half the speed of normal skills ( 7000 vs 4000) and i'm using approximately the same diff range for all 3 of the skills. Not that using high diff actions near your skill effect skill tick size from what i've tested, if it's supposed to like it does on epic.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets put it this way a 6 month server running on a new skill system where there are tougher monsters where the purpose of the server is to not grind skills but to work together as a team to take on the new monsters(who can stomp you to death in under a minute if you dont look out) and where mining is the most important skill on the server and we are greeted with [19:11:09] Mining increased by 0.0002 to 76.8068 ticks on first 2nd and 3rd action with 4th going to a 3

This is why we want to know the details not the same 2 sentences over and over that are vague we want to know specifics as right now as it stands this skill system favors grinding of important skills making it a requirement to spend hours  upon hours on veins or on cave walls in a mine not doing new content by atleast 1 person of a group you are part of so that others can do the new content

Currently from my group 3-4 people where building a road to our new outpost and now are working on the new outpost we have 2 people who are grinding their fs to try and be tanks we have 3 blacksmiths 3 weaponsmiths we have 1 miner(me) and a mason a farmer and a dedicated woodcutter and a bunch of people who are all over the place

Our woodcutter is getting in ql 85+ nearly 90 ql logs at a steady rate this guy plays 2 maybe 3 hours a day max if even that doesnt use sleep bonus nor any coc on his saw and hatchet
Our farmer hit 65+ on a small farm(for normal wurm standards its too small to grind on) today
Our blacksmiths sit around 50ish skill but none really grind they just make items and imp them
Our weaponsmiths have made over 40+ weapons each for village purposes next to grinding and they can maybe push to 55 ql if they try really hard and are around 35-40 skill
Our mason? he got ql 50 smelters on day 3 his house walls are now 80(my max i can mine with a runed pickaxe a few days ago) the forges? 80ql+ his skill? 83 this guy barely plays and is missing for days
Me the miner? Oh lets see week 2 day 4 i got a 67 coc pickaxe that pick is now 52 coc i have spend around 13 hours of sleep bonus grinding and around 20 without
Our priests? 80 faith 70+ channeling(Highest one is 79 yes our priests channeling on passive faith is higher then a miner who grinds for hours)

This new system is wacky its all over the place by stripping out difficulty related items(vein type,vein ql,pickaxe ql and so on) you gimped mining skill to be ######
Today i took my vyn priest chopping wood afk chopped wood he now sits at a nice 60 woodcutting after a lazy afternoon cutting down trees in corrupted land along the road we are making no sleep bonus just a saw 1 short semi afk afternoon to get to 60 meanwhile mining took forever in comparison


So please do say what "It's the hybrid skill system at a 4x modifier." means what parts are taken from where how does this work and what is modified by 4 times? you keep saying its a hybrid skill system but all that that tells us is that a bit of normal wurm and a bit of epic is mashed together

From what i can tell it means its a simplified skill system one where quirks like different veins affecting skill gain are taken out, where spells all give the same gains, where every successful action gives a tick, where quality of the tool does not affect skill gain(You said it would but it doesnt for mining or wc so max ql is best) but where is the rest we want to know how this system works

Going of what i have gathered so far from my tests and what the village has done 
In woodcutting getting ql is still the same complex calculation of skill+tool skill+tool ql+ age of tree(difficulty) + imbue, But skill gain wise its just go for max ql to get faster actions and more successful actions

Another point this skill system raises is that woa and coc are useless when compared to botd
Woa increases skill gain under the current system
Coc increases skill gain under the current system
Botd increases skill gain more then woa and coc combined

So unless this system is tweaked more and certain skills are lined up more and such my next round is going to be 6 lib priests all linked to 1 for channel grind to 95 in order to cast decent botd casts within month 2 any other priest and you are just shafting yourself in skill gain and thus making your "unwanted" grind longer

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

It's not 4x the freedom system. 

 

It's the hybrid skill system at a 4x modifier. Sorry if the 4x had people confused expecting 4x freedom ticks but that was never the case. 

It's also not a % of existing skills that will transfer, it's something else based on information we record on jackal. 

 

The rate is a matter of adjusting a tweaking to feel rewarding, but don't expect it to be faster than grinding in freedom as it's not intended as an accelerated grinding opportunity 

 

Aren't people supposed to get skill FAST on jackal... to have time to have fun there... times go by.. and only brings the reset closer.

 

Lower the skill that transfer with the reset, problem solved, fun while it lasts and still some bonus after it, wasn't that the point?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have skilled up a character on Freedom for years. Then finally PvE gets a much needed addition in the form of a new server. But I have too skill up again to be able to participate?? No thank you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soo today 2 hours 19 min of action time 2122 mining actions 0.387260 bringing my mining to 77.205330 total time ingame 4 hours 5 min this is near none stop mining with 1 30 min break after 2 hours for dinner no coc no sb my iron vein still has not run out so still cant go back to grinding

Anyway something i was thinking about the main reason we are wanting to call this out is with how mining has been made easier you also nerved it by increasing its action time while leaving mining as a action time=experience type of skill

So maybe for a future update or maybe jackal 2 or maybe next week how about that is changed to be in line with the rest where action time doesnt dictate skill gain anymore? as seriously with this new skill system you have the devs have to look at every individual skill and bring them in line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.