Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

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9 minutes ago, Lordbeerus said:

WU servers are player made. They can go poof in a week, or they are run by shady individuals or you can get unfair treatment and noone would care to know. WU servers, they are not for serious investment so eventually they don't attract players.

 

*cough* https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurmageddon

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Pull the plug please. Put it out of its misery.

Move on to WO Steam

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6 minutes ago, bdew said:

This is not 2007 anymore. The Wurm team has learned from the past mistakes enough to be able to provide data integrity. The point still stands, I'd trust WO Steam more than any WU server to put my time and money investment in.

Edited by Lordbeerus
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38 minutes ago, Lordbeerus said:

This is not 2007 anymore. The Wurm team has learned from the past mistakes enough to be able to provide data integrity. The point still stands, I'd trust WO Steam more than any WU server to put my time and money investment in.

Agreed

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Bigger WU servers usually use the same backup and data-recovery plans as Wurm Online servers. Full dumps every 3 hours are defacto standard in 2019 no matter if you have a Wurm server or very important business information.

 

A new Wurmageddon is extremly unlikely on both Wurm Online and bigger Wurm Unlimited servers.

Edited by Sklo:D
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I would like a name change option avalible, to at least one of the names i own, if not a new name.

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24 minutes ago, Sklo:D said:

Bigger WU servers usually use the same backup and data-recovery plans as Wurm Online servers. Full dumps every 3 hours are defacto standard in 2019 no matter if you have a Wurm server or very important business information.

 

A new Wurmageddon is extremly unlikely on both Wurm Online and bigger Wurm Unlimited servers.

 

I wasn't taking a dump on your server bro, on the contrary your server is pretty amazing :P Just saying that the average Joe hosting a WU server can't be as serious as a whole company that would stand behind official WO Stream servers. That's why MOST of the WU servers out there can't compete in "seriousness" with a possible WO official Steam server. I'm sure there are glamorous exceptions, but they are exceptions, not the norm.

 

Edited by Lordbeerus

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1: See what you can take and learn from Jackal.

2: Go for the "low hanging fruit", Easy to implement QOL and UI improvements first. 

 

 

PS: People always have their own angle. Often what people say they want, is not actually what they want. That being said, there are some things suggested that would be universally accepted. Finding the common denominator solutions will have little blow back. 

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I really love WO, I could never get into it long term because of OGWO and feeling left behind by veterans. This sentiment is shared by 4-5 of my friends, one of which who is a veteran from 'wilds' days.

 

We all joined Jackal as a pseudo-fresh start and it feels good to be slightly relevant. I've seen some posts with sentiment that 'There's a level 100 cap therefor there is no difference between new players and veterans'.

 

From a perspective of a new player, the feeling is that you can't make an impact at all. Why would anyone ever buy or even interact with anything from a new player when they can get a 80 QL tool with all 75+ enchantments for a silver or two? Making thousands of planks / stone bricks aside. 

 

Before Jackal, I never made a simple, small scale trade - cotton for wemp. I've played since 2013 off and on. It was genuinely super exciting for me to make a simple trade and actually interact with communities, it's quite a lot of fun. Outside of Jackal, I never really interacted with anyone. Everyone is already in their well established cliques.

 

lot of people look at the free-to-play MMOs on Steam. I think a long term, fresh start cluster is exactly what this game needs. It's personally what I've been waiting on for quite a long time, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

 

Another point I'd like to make, is there are currently 11 million steam users online. If 0.01% of those players (11,000) tried Wurm, and 10% of those players stuck with the game, that would triple the playerbase that is currently online as I post this (300). And I feel like those numbers are not entirely unrealistic at all, even if the game is niche. 

 

 

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Mybe would be best to stop waste time with java wurm as we know now and start wasting money and time in new "wurm game" on new days platforms... we must catch 2020 games  I belive

 

images can be converted, updated, inproved  kinda fast.   Its dangerus to drive heavy truck thru old wooden bridge.

 

I belive wurm should be on this list :  https://www.geek.com/games/11-old-school-pc-games-that-need-modern-remakes-1647616/

Edited by Sila

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23 hours ago, solmark said:

Learn the lessions from the WU community, implement some of the Quality of Life changes, but keep the essential grind. I am not saying making it easier, just remove the completely pointless annoying stuff that turns players off, like moving 10 tiles to meditate. Add changes like the option to have an autosorting ql of items in containers (or disable for default) plus digging and mining actions going in to the Wagon/Cart/Container. The list list a long one.

 

There will be existing players who won't like this, they will just tell you to go play WU, but for me this is about improving the long term viability of Wurm itself by making it less frustrating for new players and to stop the player drain that happens after 20 skill

+1 for whatever of that sort that makes sense... nobody likes too much micromanagement... game's too grindy already, no need to 2-3-100x perform extra actions for the common things that literally just take more key pressing/window management and time

If there are antibotting measures, flag people and accumulate a score on such.. than check on them... but it makes no sense to annoy every customer because of the few black sheep, it's counterproductive.

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4 minutes ago, Finnn said:

+1 for whatever of that sort that makes sense... nobody likes too much micromanagement... game's too grindy already, no need to 2-3-100x perform extra actions for the common things that literally just take more key pressing/window management and time

If there are antibotting measures, flag people and accumulate a score on such.. than check on them... but it makes no sense to annoy every customer because of the few black sheep, it's counterproductive.

well yes some things in wurm dont make sense

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1 hour ago, Sila said:

well yes some things in wurm dont make sense

like wogic?

Weakening that one.. could bring a bit more "sane minds" to bash their heads in the wall grinding skills, players like challenge... nonsense... is something that .. idk how to explain w/o triggering certain people

The polite way is to say that wogic is something that could and should be worked on.

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I think adding Wurm Online to steam could be a good move, as long as it was handled carefully and there are no seriously damaging issues that arise regarding player-player RMT (not that I like player-player RMT much - but it is a fact of life in wurm at the moment). I'm not sure a new server is going to bring in new players. New servers only get a certain breed of old players excited.

 

If I were in charge, first I'd play up the niche appeal of Wurm, bluntly state that it's NOT for everyone. Are YOU a Wurmian? Maybe gently tease players for their insanity. Rather than a generic "this game is awesome, sandbox, mmo blah blah blah" tagline. Many modern gamers will hate Wurm no matter what you do and this approach might manage expectations and prevent review bombing by disappointed steam players. Good reviews are absolutely key for exposure on Steam.

 

Secondly, I'd bring back Golden Valley in some form. I know a lot of work has been done on the new player experience and much of it is excellent, but nothing has ever quite compared to that Golden Valley experience. Being dumped on the main servers asap and being surrounded by glorious castles, bridges and boats can be quite demoralising for new players. On GV you were surrounded by other incompetent noobs running back to the bartender every day, building sad little shacks and desperately seeking cows. It was certainly unique and in my opinion a better introduction to the game.

 

Thirdly I'd probably add half price silver weekends to Wurm once every couple of months or so. Steam is pretty good at getting the message out through its news feeds.

 

I think that would probably be sufficient to grow player numbers a bit.

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1 hour ago, Czar said:

If I were in charge, first I'd play up the niche appeal of Wurm, bluntly state that it's NOT for everyone. Are YOU a Wurmian? Maybe gently tease players for their insanity. Rather than a generic "this game is awesome, sandbox, mmo blah blah blah" tagline. Many modern gamers will hate Wurm no matter what you do and this approach might manage expectations and prevent review bombing by disappointed steam players. Good reviews are absolutely key for exposure on Steam.

 

I like this. We can't appeal to everyone, because we're a special kind of weird. 

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On 9/23/2019 at 2:29 PM, Rolf said:

Yeah, although because we lose almost every player who don't want to pay as soon as they hit this ceiling we should consider simply slowing down skillgain instead. We'll see. Also I like the idea of letting people start at 10 or 15 or so.

 

A suggestion regarding starting people with higher skill:

 

Instead of starting every skill at 10 or 15 and having that as the new "0", perhaps allow people to start with 10 or 15 skill in a select few skills that they would choose at the start.

 

This could also utilise a "skill package" system. For example, the "Smithing Package" would start them with 15 skill in Mining, Blacksmithing and Weaponsmithing.

 

These packages would help to stop new players from being overwhelmed by the large choice of skills, whilst still allowing them to specialise in something and feel like they have a role early on.

 

 

 

I also like your idea of slowing down skill gain after 20 for non prems, instead of a hard cap, that could really help with player retention.

 

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49 minutes ago, BrokenSanity said:

 

A suggestion regarding starting people with higher skill:

 

Instead of starting every skill at 10 or 15 and having that as the new "0", perhaps allow people to start with 10 or 15 skill in a select few skills that they would choose at the start.

 

This could also utilise a "skill package" system. For example, the "Smithing Package" would start them with 15 skill in Mining, Blacksmithing and Weaponsmithing.

 

These packages would help to stop new players from being overwhelmed by the large choice of skills, whilst still allowing them to specialise in something and feel like they have a role early on.

 

 

 

I also like your idea of slowing down skill gain after 20 for non prems, instead of a hard cap, that could really help with player retention.

 

Many modern MMO player are used to a certain amount of character customisation before even entering the game, so having a set of 'boosted' skill to begin with would certainly fit in with that, perhaps a pool of 'skill points' to allocate prior to beginning, so that players can set themselves up for hunting, crafting, or whatever. Since Wurm does not lock us into specialised roles this would be merely a head start in certain areas.

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I favor bringing WO to Steam.

Launch a quarantined server with PVE and PVP zones.  Allow up to five characters per Steam account.  Discontinue the old client when the servers merge.  Current characters will have to be linked to a Steam account.  Characters not linked to a Steam account will no longer be able to login but can be linked to a Steam account at any point.

All new characters start with five skills of their choosing at 10.00 vice 1.00 skill.  Provide a UI at character creation that explains skill basics.  Increase nonpremium skill caps to 25.  As previously mentioned, lower sleep powders prices at game store and merchants and restrict to the purchasing Steam account.

  Any server with no populace can be closed or given a treatment similar to Jackal.
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I have already talked to some vets I know who are interested in coming back for a WO Steam launch, which kinda shocked me actually.

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I think launching on Steam is a great idea, but using a separate cluster of servers feels a bit like shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Such a separate cluster is unfortunately mainly to the advantage of veteran players, as plenty of them will make new characters on those servers. And unlike the new players, the veterans already know all they need to know in order to quickly get ahead of all the new players (all the tricks to grinding skills quickly, which skills are most useful, etc). Thus while the new players are still trying to learn the ropes those veterans will already be moving way ahead of them and they'll be ready to dominate the markets and rake in the money. Meanwhile all those new players don't have the chance to visit the existing servers, so not only do they gain no real advantage from a fresh start cluster, they also gain all the disadvantages.

Meanwhile players on the existing servers also lose out as existing players move over to the new cluster for that early shot at dominating the market, thus the existing servers become even more thinly populated and deserted.

 

I think adding a new server or two to the existing cluster and letting new players start there would be a better move. This allows new players to spread out to the existing servers, explore and see all the wonders that already exist, without giving them the false pretense of a fresh start. It also helps with the thinly populated issue of the existing servers, and makes it easier to withstand a potential flood of new players, as they can spread out over many servers right away. Seems like the best move for everybody involved.

 

To smooth over the start for new players I think letting them start with 10-20 in the most common skills would also be a good idea. I noticed on Jackal that a lot of the creation chances for the most basic of stuff (planks, shafts, nails, etc) is around 50% at the start. That results in a lot of failures while trying to create that stuff, which didn't feel like fun to me. Tweaking the chances for those items so that they are for example 75% at the lowest will likely help with the new player experience, without removing the sense of progression from getting those creation chances up to the 90s. Perhaps them starting with 10-20 in the most common skills already does the trick for that? Either way that seems like something worth looking at.

 

In order to thrive on Steam I also think that the current premium system will need to be revamped. I already saw it mentioned elsewhere in this thread to remove the hard cap at 20 and to turn premium into a  bonus subscription system. I think that's a good idea in general, and then either slow down skill gain above  20 unless you have premium, or speed it up a bit with premium (10-25% skill gain bonus for example). Then attach some other bonuses to premium in order to make it worth it, like some sleep bonus every week, perhaps 1-2 monthly free silver (you could get rid of trader draining in order to compensate for this), an occasional cosmetic or utility item at certain milestones (1 month of prem, 2 months, 3 months, 6 months of prem, 12 months, etc). While 1-2 silver doesn't sound like much, for the average player it could be enough to keep their deed running, which could make premium look really enticing to such players. I'd probably also keep priests restricted to premium only, or restrict the Link action so it only works between premium characters.

 

Client wise it would be great if it worked just like, for example, Path of Exile. There you can use Steam, or their own client, both work exactly the same. You can buy their micro transactions on their own site or through steam as well. So overall Steam is just an extra client there and you can play with people who use either client. There's no separation of players based on which client they use. Players can also link their existing accounts to Steam if they'd like to use Steam but already have an account, and this doesn't lock them out of the normal client.

Edited by Ecrir
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On 9/23/2019 at 9:22 AM, Retrograde said:

Wurm is currently free to play. The steam server will have the same limitations, or thereabouts. 

 

By free to play it means free to download and install.

 

This is aimed at further promoting the mmo in steam, not shifting players from here over

 

I think if you plan to provide a Steam experience for WO but plan to add a subscription that is the SAME COST as the current WO, you will not see ANY net growth in the game.  The truth is, though Rolf thought it was necessary to do for financial reasons, the rate increase we had several years back created a serious issue with promoting WO.  I hope Rolf and the team realizes that in 2019, NOBODY is going to want to pay PER TOON the current price PLUS pay for coins to maintain a DEED.  It's not going to happen because WO with it's 1-toon-per-sub model is NOT competitive with other MMOs, especially those that offer MULTIPLE TOONS with a FLAT RATE per month.  Multiple toons are MANDATORY to get the full WO experience and everyone knows I speak the truth.  WO is an awesome game and 99% of those who play WANT, NEED, and WILL play multiple toons to get the WHOLE experience.  New gamers to WO are NOT going to understand or tolerate paying $15-20 a month for a game without AAA graphics.  Heck, even WITH AAA graphics, they wont pay.

 

My humble suggestion that I BEG you will consider:  Offer WO on Steam free-to-play with the option to subscribe, BUT, lower the PER-TOON cost to $5USD per toon.  That way, a person can enjoy WURM ONLINE for $10 a month with a crafter and a priest.  Then, offer good SHOP items and you will have a SUCCESSFUL and BOUNTIFUL launch on Steam.  Otherwise, it will be more of the same.

 

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25 minutes ago, Eyesgood said:

 

I think if you plan to provide a Steam experience for WO but plan to add a subscription that is the SAME COST as the current WO, you will not see ANY net growth in the game.  The truth is, though Rolf thought it was necessary to do for financial reasons, the rate increase we had several years back created a serious issue with promoting WO.  I hope Rolf and the team realizes that in 2019, NOBODY is going to want to pay PER TOON the current price PLUS pay for coins to maintain a DEED.  It's not going to happen because WO with it's 1-toon-per-sub model is NOT competitive with other MMOs, especially those that offer MULTIPLE TOONS with a FLAT RATE per month.  Multiple toons are MANDATORY to get the full WO experience and everyone knows I speak the truth.  WO is an awesome game and 99% of those who play WANT, NEED, and WILL play multiple toons to get the WHOLE experience.  New gamers to WO are NOT going to understand or tolerate paying $15-20 a month for a game without AAA graphics.  Heck, even WITH AAA graphics, they wont pay.

 

My humble suggestion that I BEG you will consider:  Offer WO on Steam free-to-play with the option to subscribe, BUT, lower the PER-TOON cost to $5USD per toon.  That way, a person can enjoy WURM ONLINE for $10 a month with a crafter and a priest.  Then, offer good SHOP items and you will have a SUCCESSFUL and BOUNTIFUL launch on Steam.  Otherwise, it will be more of the same.

 


I would say keep the $8 usd per toon for the lowest option.  

But I think the 6 month option should maybe come down to $6 per month with 6 silver.  This would allow you to be able to fund a deed and play for six months.  And get more people committing to longer periods of time.

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3 minutes ago, Ascorbic said:


I would say keep the $8 usd per toon for the lowest option.  

But I think the 6 month option should maybe come down to $6 per month with 6 silver.  This would allow you to be able to fund a deed and play for six months.  And get more people committing to longer periods of time.

I hear you, but I don't think Steam players are going to want to plunk down a 6-month subscription right away.  They NEED to feel the whole experience and $8 a pop is not going to fly imho.

 

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15 hours ago, Czar said:

I think adding Wurm Online to steam could be a good move, as long as it was handled carefully and there are no seriously damaging issues that arise regarding player-player RMT (not that I like player-player RMT much - but it is a fact of life in wurm at the moment). I'm not sure a new server is going to bring in new players. New servers only get a certain breed of old players excited.

 

If I were in charge, first I'd play up the niche appeal of Wurm, bluntly state that it's NOT for everyone. Are YOU a Wurmian? Maybe gently tease players for their insanity. Rather than a generic "this game is awesome, sandbox, mmo blah blah blah" tagline. Many modern gamers will hate Wurm no matter what you do and this approach might manage expectations and prevent review bombing by disappointed steam players. Good reviews are absolutely key for exposure on Steam.

 

Secondly, I'd bring back Golden Valley in some form. I know a lot of work has been done on the new player experience and much of it is excellent, but nothing has ever quite compared to that Golden Valley experience. Being dumped on the main servers asap and being surrounded by glorious castles, bridges and boats can be quite demoralising for new players. On GV you were surrounded by other incompetent noobs running back to the bartender every day, building sad little shacks and desperately seeking cows. It was certainly unique and in my opinion a better introduction to the game.

 

Thirdly I'd probably add half price silver weekends to Wurm once every couple of months or so. Steam is pretty good at getting the message out through its news feeds.

 

I think that would probably be sufficient to grow player numbers a bit.

What is golden valley? (I have to explain.. #my1stGVExperience)

First time I spawned there it was a total bore, walls, fences, you have no clue about game controls etc.. further more your movement is locked like you're a rat in a maze..

Than you realize.. there's a tutorial part in there.. and you see what's what .. well.. how it looks at least.. as items are actually absolutely decorative "look - don't touch".. eventually.. you get to the portal and leave.. finally in the sandbox..

IDK about others.. but I can't imagine temp environment as fun place, maybe if in a quick manner you could tell people what it is.. and that they could start from there.. with friends.. and pick the server where they are going to play on... other than that.. seems like waste of time to explore/exist/experience.

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1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

 

I think if you plan to provide a Steam experience for WO but plan to add a subscription that is the SAME COST as the current WO, you will not see ANY net growth in the game.  The truth is, though Rolf thought it was necessary to do for financial reasons, the rate increase we had several years back created a serious issue with promoting WO.  I hope Rolf and the team realizes that in 2019, NOBODY is going to want to pay PER TOON the current price PLUS pay for coins to maintain a DEED.  It's not going to happen because WO with it's 1-toon-per-sub model is NOT competitive with other MMOs, especially those that offer MULTIPLE TOONS with a FLAT RATE per month.  Multiple toons are MANDATORY to get the full WO experience and everyone knows I speak the truth.  WO is an awesome game and 99% of those who play WANT, NEED, and WILL play multiple toons to get the WHOLE experience.  New gamers to WO are NOT going to understand or tolerate paying $15-20 a month for a game without AAA graphics.  Heck, even WITH AAA graphics, they wont pay.

 

My humble suggestion that I BEG you will consider:  Offer WO on Steam free-to-play with the option to subscribe, BUT, lower the PER-TOON cost to $5USD per toon.  That way, a person can enjoy WURM ONLINE for $10 a month with a crafter and a priest.  Then, offer good SHOP items and you will have a SUCCESSFUL and BOUNTIFUL launch on Steam.  Otherwise, it will be more of the same.

 

 

To keep the price as is would need removing all restrictions from characters , you want to be a priest np , want to be a crafter np  even just a warrior ..

Remove that priest can not mine , cut down trees , dig or pave  and last but lease remove the no improvement .

 

A character should and can be anything , yes a lot of players may be peeved but think you have a head start just need add few other skills or sell off and let someone else do it .

 

Wurm a game with no restrictions come play today and make you're own future !

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