Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

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22 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

I've suggested in the past to consolidate some of the current WO servers...

 

1- I think there needs to have 2-3 servers disappear. Make a lottery, 2 servers go in the next 6 months. Move your deed within the allotted time and be refunded your deed costs and upkeep from the past few months to help cover costs of deed materials. 

1.1- Be happy you get to keep your skills, tools, animals, etc. All you lose is the buildings and terraforming from a deed (I KNOW IT WILL BE HARD FOR SOME PLAYERS...)

2- Steam accounts should most likely be 'born' on a new piece of land, but allow transfer to current servers (one-way ticket) by boating across. One-way travel is up for 3 months, open two-way travel after. 

3- Maybe all accounts should be free-to-play..? Hike prices of deeds 3-5x the current amount. Buy the silver form the store, or work for it. Users that DON'T have a deed or contribute to a deed upkeep could have a soft skillcap set in place (such as after 40 skill). 

 

Opinions..? 

I think a better solution is to determine a way to take a deedplanner copy of a deed and reimport it into a server. The deed sizes for the old_location and new_location would have to be the same. Then once the deed is imported you would still need to terraform the borders to blend it in plus the mines would have to be rebuilt as well (perhaps the rock layer could be placed where the mine was so you simply tunnel in.

 

I suspect there is a way to programmatically do this.  If it's possible then at least server shutdowns to move populations together would be much less painful. 

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Also add- a FULL-TIME Game Master that can host events non-stop at various locations, either on new lands or on the 'old servers'... Obviously one that accomodate ALL timezones. 

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9 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

What if you got to move the deed in its entirety to a new location? I'm aware of your point, but when a company is not doing great, they usually consolidate their assets. In this case, the assets are the players...

 

For a lot of people the deed is not considered in isolation - the surrounding biomes and topology is vital to our sense of place and our range of resources.  The proximity of close friends and neighbours at adjacent deeds is critical to maintaining the alliances and communities we have built.    We are not just talking about someone's home, it's their neighbourhood - how much of the surrounding topology and 'feel' of a place can be moved.  Some players go out every day visiting friends.  We are not just assets we are people, and if people lose their homes, their long time neighbours, and their will to play, they are no longer assets.

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1 hour ago, Nappy said:

Well how about a WU DLC that includes all the stuff that WO has kindly withheld from WU? I am willing to reach into my wallet for that.

 

 

I think WU players would sullenly accept Code Club not updating more than once a year (still gives WO players first crack at everything!) better than they would accept "we are going to charge you for something we PROMISED would be free" -- that is actually asking for a class action lawsuit, as well as destroying any trust in your good name as a developer.  Why would we believe anything Rolf said, ever again?  WU was literally sold as having all the content updates of WO, which there has been some wiggleroom in for a few things like anticheat, rifts (that one is iffy but they did give the models) and maybe the Frontier stuff, but won't work as well if you start applying it to literally EVERYTHING. 

 

But that doesn't mean there are not ways to achieve a similar result.

 

While Rolf promised WU would get the content of WO, he never promised it would get the content of the new WO-Steam, which will likely have a slightly different name. Update the steam version as the new modern version,  then give WO players an option to transfer their characters there plus maybe "buyout" their investments on the old servers (there must be a way to place a value on buildings craft stations etc then give it all a generous BUMP)  for a very generous amount of official coin on the new servers. Or they can stay on the old servers, that's fine.   Now you can keep the new modern game "unique" from the WU version without any legal issues.  Ark online did something possibly similar, when they had a payment tier for "DLC for life" and later changed their mind, and released a DLC (Atlas) as a free standing game solely  in order to not give it free to all the people who bought the season passes thing because they were promised they would get it for free.

 

You are still going to get criticized but at least you get the money.

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Brash, can you post a link to where Rolf said WU would get everything that WO would get.

Cause that was never my impression.

As I understood it some content would be WO only while the graphics and functionality would also be updated on WU.

 

It was never viable to give free content to the people that choose to play for free in WU after purchase.

Specially when the game was available really cheap in bundles etc.

Edited by Cecci
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19 minutes ago, Cecci said:

Brash, can you post a link to where Rolf said WU would get everything that WO would get. 

 

 

I have to look it up and I think at one point they might have tried to edit it, but we have posted achived screenshots before, I just need to dig around a bit.

 

I went back and checked, multiple times, to be sure I was remembering correctly.

 

Was it a good idea to make a promise like that?

Maybe not. It may not have been practical/viable for years down the road, but Rolf gets very ... enthused ... when he is selling a new idea.

he believed at the time it was possible/viable/practical to do.

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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I'm going to read every single comment but i'll say this now.
I'm not rebuilding, if the old servers become part of a steam infrastructure there are creations on them that deserve to live.

speaking for myself and many others.
As for the general toxicity of the steam userbase, i think you'll find that's mostly children.
Wurm would offset that because of the gigantic number of mature gamers that use the platform.
 

12 hours ago, Sandyar said:

I think it a good idea to start a new steam server.

I think it a bad idea to keep current servers.

I think it a bad idea to make wurm pay to win with cash items shops.

 

Actually I thought about we needed to merge all servers into one to have wurm survive, to many half empty servers and only way in my mind, is everyone in same boat so all server closes and none survive. Splitting wurm up further that WU already did, I think it a bad idea.

 

I hope an eventual new pvp server will be only epic style portals, was a big mistake to connect wild to freedom and only caused a lot of pvp issues that would not have happen if thiefs could not sail away to safety with loot.

 

I'm thinking we need to retain the current servers, clone them into the steam `cluster` and shut down the old client.
thereby preserving the hundreds of thousands of hours already put into the game to say nothing of the money many of us have invested into an extended upkeep.
Of course then you've got the accumulated skills to consider but i honestly don't know why we can't transfer the user database and all the skills that come with it, to the steam login.
Once we download the steam version we can then link our steam account with our old wurm user account thereby merging our account info into the new platform.

Granted that means there will be hundreds of players with relatively high skills on a new server cluster but we're, all of us, heritage players.
We don't need veteran rewards we just need to be able to play our characters on the new hub. (i say this as a pve player, pvp i'd imagine is a more complicated issue)
2c
A recent comment by me in my alliance discord channel (to be frank)

Quote

if this does launch, i want all the newbies to see what we've built.
but if it's separate and we have to start from scratch to play on it with cobwebs and a dwindling player base on the veteran servers
i dont like the sound of that#
it kinda p****s on the blood sweat love and tears of the living and the dead that have made wurm great


I don't mind my skills being reset, but i sure as hell don't speak for everyone there, im almost sorry for saying it. I do mind heritage being disregarded and inevitably lost.
If that is done, i believe deedplanner imports for veteran players is dearly needed.

2 hours ago, Nappy said:

I think a better solution is to determine a way to take a deedplanner copy of a deed and reimport it into a server. The deed sizes for the old_location and new_location would have to be the same. Then once the deed is imported you would still need to terraform the borders to blend it in plus the mines would have to be rebuilt as well (perhaps the rock layer could be placed where the mine was so you simply tunnel in.

 

I suspect there is a way to programmatically do this.  If it's possible then at least server shutdowns to move populations together would be much less painful. 

This

Edited by Steveleeb
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1 hour ago, Steveleeb said:

I'm thinking we need to retain the current servers, clone them into the steam `cluster` and shut down the old client.

I never thought of this but this would probably make a lot more sense. I'd also like to add that it would be cool if once you get the client on steam and make your character you get to pick where to go... the new server or the pre existing ones. Giving the new players a choice of what they want to experience instead of assuming the development team knows best (this rarely works out anyway). Of course I also know when they said the steam launch will be free to play it's probably just going to be the same as it is now... with all the limitations, you can download the game and log in but don't expect anything past level 20. 

Or just do the steam launch and just add the ability for new players to pick where they want to play.... options are a good thing.

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Wipe all the servers and give 1 pve and 1 pvp/no rules. If I had it my way id opt to just go with one server with a pve zone surrounding the starter and have the rest of the map be a free for all. Return to the way the game was in Beta.

 

RIP Newtown

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My 2 cents - Steam and existing WO servers should be the same and it would benefit both communities at the same time:

 

1) Argument that "Lets give people fresh start and newbs seeing people in high gear will get discouraged" is not a valid argument - I am only here because I saw those people and thought "I also want that" otherwise I didnt see the benefit of being here. the skill grind is too steep. In that case EVE Online would be dead long time ago - When I joined there I was amazed by the huge corporations flying capital-ships.

 

2) It would revive markets - not all players has 24/7 time for grinding therefore it is good if I have a possibility to buy better gear and advance faster if I only have 2-3 hours per day max to spend on WO.

 

3) There is still a lot of unused ground on all the servers.

 

4) What makes wurm great and why I stay was community  - Older players helping new players to understand the game. I dont believe that new players on a new cluster will stay for long with this grind and no community.

 

 

As it feels now this is an attempt to open game on steam, let the old community keep paying to cover all the expenses and if all goes as planed let the old servers die on them own because new players wont come in to old servers because of steam and more and more players will just leav or switch over time.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Muse said:

 

For a lot of people the deed is not considered in isolation - the surrounding biomes and topology is vital to our sense of place and our range of resources.  The proximity of close friends and neighbours at adjacent deeds is critical to maintaining the alliances and communities we have built.    We are not just talking about someone's home, it's their neighbourhood - how much of the surrounding topology and 'feel' of a place can be moved.  Some players go out every day visiting friends.  We are not just assets we are people, and if people lose their homes, their long time neighbours, and their will to play, they are no longer assets.

 

I can't agree more. For my side, I can say, the day I am forced to abandon my deed and my region will certainly be my last day on Wurm.

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Allright, lots of comments during the night :) It's a lot to take in and often diametrically opposed opinions.

Here are some thoughts:

  • I don't see us launching without a new UI.
  • We need to look into the stuff people have done right in WU with QoL improvements and newbie stuff such as the things I read Sklo did.
  • Also the monetization and premium model will be questioned. We might tweak it in such ways MrGary suggested. Eve still has monthly premium/subscriptions so it's not like it's a dead business form.
  • The login server will be the same for both clusters so we could allow people to go from Steam to the existing servers. And we can include an option to log on using old accounts via Steam. We need to sort out what that means for our requirements to prohibit the sale of silvers, items and accounts between players outside the Steam Wallet though. We'll have to look into it and can't really give an answer at this early time.
  • Yes we could launch both a Freedom and a PvP server at the same time.

    A lot to sort out (and mainly improve). Is there an extensive list of QoL improvements most people agree upon kept anywhere?  Actually Retrograde has been compiling such a list for a good while :D 
Edited by Rolf
Missing info
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7 minutes ago, Rolf said:

A lot to sort out (and mainly improve). Is there an extensive list of QoL improvements most people agree upon kept anywhere?

 

Not to sound like a smartarse but yes, suggestions forum section and WU modding section. 😛

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3 hours ago, Pallas said:

Wipe all the servers and give 1 pve and 1 pvp/no rules. If I had it my way id opt to just go with one server with a pve zone surrounding the starter and have the rest of the map be a free for all. Return to the way the game was in Beta.

 

RIP Newtown

 

this would honest to god be the best solution to this game at this point

get everyone together stop tearing each other apart

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7 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

Not to sound like a smartarse but yes, suggestions forum section and WU modding section. 😛

Some sort of search by frequency of request will turn up a list of most common QoL requests for Wurm, and yes, the modding section of Unlimited is a rich trove of actual QoL improvements tuned for WU, but still worthy of inclusion, stuff like hitching posts, all the way to new skills/items like Taxidermy, there's a lot to unpick, but I don't think a generally agreed list is available, we're not that organised, nor even in agreement most of the time as players, we all want something for ourselves, and grudgingly agree to some of what others want. 

 

(P.S If Kilts and Mammoths are not on the list, I'll pout...).

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17 minutes ago, Rolf said:

Yes we could launch both a Freedom and a PvP server at the same time.

 

can we please get rid of the existing pvp servers at that point in time then

 

i don't think the team actually understands how much time and effort people put into character development, map progression including deeds, just to be stuck on an abandoned server or worse, working on a new server experiment just to get the toon rolled and merged to where your existing character already is, with 1k days playtime (this goes for pve and pvpers)

 

this alone makes me incredibly hesitant to even THINK about playing the game yet again, these are real concerns. we really should stop separating the player base even further, it just keeps not working 😕

wurmageddon 2.0 and make everyone move to the new cluster?

 

also as a side note, I have an idea that could generate revenue for the game, but might be opposed by some players. it requires a truly functioning account management system and a web shop: SELL SLEEP POWDER ON THE WEB SHOP AT 1 EURO EACH and make it master-account bound (only tradeable through your own toons). remove the sp from traders because nobody buys them at 5s each, and then keep the reward system from premming at 2sp/2month. I've easily seen 600-800 sp sell within a little over a week, imagine how much revenue that would generate if they were easily accessible through an online shop, AND directly supported the game.

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I have not seen the developers state that they need to eliminate some servers to reduce operation costs in any substantial way, nor that they want to make the player base more dense on the remaining servers as a motivation. This idea is put forth by players who place little value upon what others have created out of the Wurm environment because they have spent little time on this.

 

The most dramatic part of Wurm is the way that players can transform the environment around them even beyond just their own deed. Then what they leave behind or maintain is a visual history of Wurm and an example to others of what is available for them to do as well. I have no quarrel with those who have no interest in this but rather see Wurm just a a social game or a pvp experience of destroying others but when it comes to destroying whole worlds (servers) just because they have put nothing into them, in this respect then they have gone too far in their self indulgence at others expense.

 

Muse put it well in her posts about deeds designed to fit into the environment (also shaped) surrounding them. Then living there for years after enjoying one's creation can't be replaced, moved elsewhere or paid off with $$$$. It's not "all about the money baby!". Also as mentioned by some, players on the new WO Steam servers will miss out on this experience of traveling roads that were built long ago and passing through quaint Villages along side of them if they can not visit the old heritage Wurm worlds (servers). I suppose they could just make a newbie account though to visit them and perhaps be inspired by the possibilities of what they too can achieve over time if desired.

 

=Ayes=

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Rolf, if possible try doing both at the same time and see how it goes. If Steam doesnt come out well, you still be able to maintain WO as it is. So dont put all your eggs in the same basket. The ideas sound good, but doesnt mean it will be smart move.

 

What i think it is, that when new players (some of them) want a fresh map, that arent over populated or civilized. Some do and some dont, that where i draw the line in the first place in WO and wasnt too happy with it. After many players dropped out, things start to decay and get ugly. I know no one is perfect when it come to building or being creative. But there are alot of players like to keep the place clean and neat, rather a junk yard. That one reason i couldnt stand in Haven in the first place.

 

Great job on the game, just need some more improvement, but need to take this slow. Having more options is better than just one, when chosen a map/server to play on. So this is why i switch from WO to WU in the first place.

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I also want to stress that a forced move to steam would not make everybody happy. Some years ago the game i was playing then opened an opportunity to play it over steam (original launcher fortunately retained) so I gave it a try. In fact, steam client took a lot of space and performance and worked badly with my graphics card on linux, there was significant overhead when running the same game over steam compared to the native client. Additionally, Valve seemed to be quite nosy about my personal data which was additionally disgusting. After some time I decided to delete the steam client (no idea whether the account is still around). I would definitely not be happy to be forced to use steam, especially as I am running the game on some bit older boxes.

Edited by Ekcin
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- Start players with the BC to ride a horse.

- Start players with a <ragglefraggle> hammer.

 

There's 50% of retention factor =P

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21 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

- Start players with the BC to ride a horse.

- Start players with a <ragglefraggle> hammer.

There's 50% of retention factor =P

 

Well. maybe give premed players a BC buff enabling them to ride a horse

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1 hour ago, Ayes said:

I have not seen the developers state that they need to eliminate some servers to reduce operation costs in any substantial way, nor that they want to make the player base more dense on the remaining servers as a motivation. This idea is put forth by players who place little value upon what others have created out of the Wurm environment because they have spent little time on this.

 

Yeah, right? This is so annoying. Delete your deeds! Delete your stats! Delete all the servers, let's start again! Even though it'll be painful and you definitely won't like it, it'll be good for you in the long run! Pffft.

 

Often said by players that aren't actually playing Wurm, or those with little or nothing to lose.

 

Personally I like low-population servers, with lots of space to rummage and roam. I hear bad stories about some servers; like it's hard to find mobs because they're populated by animal hoarders. Just...lol. Where I live, if I go out in a wagon I've usually got a creature convoy following me :D

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I am glad there will be changes, hope it works. But, all i want to know as soon possible is if it's going to be a full wipe or no. Will support it and  pretty much anything  else.but I am not going to play this game if this is announced a day or week before the launch. There's plenty of good suggestion ins this thread and on the other forums. So take notes, take your time to make up your mind what you wanna do and then be transparent about it in timely manner. Good luck

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Just now, Canis said:

I am glad there will be changes, hope it works. But, all i want to know as soon possible is if it's going to be a full wipe or no. Will support it and  pretty much anything  else.but I am not going to play this game if this is announced a day or week before the launch. There's plenty of good suggestion ins this thread and on the other forums. So take notes, take your time to make up your mind what you wanna do and then be transparent about it in timely manner. Good luck

No wipes are planned, this would be a full new server. 

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2 hours ago, Rolf said:
  • I don't see us launching without a new UI. 

Good to know that this whole thing won't happen then

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