Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

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8 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Problem is not to let new people try the game for free for 1 or 10 months, issue will come from old ones.. running tens of accounts... preparing to ruin the game later with priest batteries, bulk hoarded, whatever else multi-client usual ###### that comes with the multi-acct playstyle. Given.. it wont really affect the game much.. but it will stress the servers a bit just to give a coin-chaser an edge over the others...

 

Like the 3-day free premium.. we saw from 250 people at a unique slaying.. ~70/+ were with similar names.. just there to grab an extra mining potion. Talking about single person running 20-30+ accounts just to get a bit more...

If none of that greed bothers anybody, nothing stops any kind of pr candy to be thrown at new players, being skills, gear, buffs, etc

if steam limit it to one account per user (and maybe no restrictions to priest) would be nice to try

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6 minutes ago, tamat said:

if steam limit it to one account per user (and maybe no restrictions to priest) would be nice to try

That requires split between the premium memberships on steam and jackal/epic/freedom.. until the merge.. and yes.. if it's just 1 account for steam.. and it's actually locked to that.. it wont let players with normal launcher start it.... unless there's a workaround to run several clients anyway.. presenting themselves as different steam accounts. (I'm not really into any of the multi-accounting..)

...

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14 minutes ago, Legios said:

Just gonna drop this here to remind you all of the interest anything Wurm has on steam. Best of luck though.

 tvynWw3.png

 

That is rather different though, you either have to host or join another players server with all the worries those entail.

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9 minutes ago, Finnn said:

That requires split between the premium memberships on steam and jackal/epic/freedom.. until the merge.. and yes.. if it's just 1 account for steam.. and it's actually locked to that.. it wont let players with normal launcher start it.... unless there's a workaround to run several clients anyway.. presenting themselves as different steam accounts. (I'm not really into any of the multi-accounting..)

...

 

I'm running 3 WU clients at the same time without much trouble, there are plenty of guides available and it's not only Wurm Unlimited specific issue. It's a simple workaround which is being used by millions for many of the games, WU being probably the smallest one.

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if you stay sub based or severely slow down gains with a f2p account this is gonna be yet another flop

either make it buy one time and play, or f2p with cosmetic cash shop

 

a game with such a small community cant hold itself with this outdated monetization system

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19 minutes ago, LordLouis said:

 

That is rather different though, you either have to host or join another players server with all the worries those entail.

The last thing I want is wurm to fail, but that is inevitable for it's age. It's held on by those that refuse to let go, myself included. My point was that there is minial interest for WU even with all the mods and MTX stores available on some servers. Feature wise WU is ahead of WO by years. WO on the other hand feels like it's just milking the content trickling it in order to extend it's own life, in the mean time people have moved to WU to experience these features. A good example is taxidermy, and so many others. I'm not saying WU is better but I'm saying that people are doing more in WU with no income than WO with subs/deeds upkeep. So if WU has about the same players as WO... while WU has so much more "complexity" like hosting your own server or other server "worries" then it seems like people are willing to overcome those worries for a better player experience, that WO is not offering them.

 

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Has this been passed by the new Overlords owners ?

Plus this is day dreaming on Rolf's part at the moment .

 

I mention this game to others when I play different steam games , comments from there are yes I tried it but was to much a grind .

Was boring nothing to do after making a deed and building other then grind skills .

PVP is terrible no way to catch up yet alone a clunky fight system and UI .

 

Population to thinned out , I asked if they seen WU , most say why play a private server that can be up for 1 week or 6 months  why waste my time .

 

 

 

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The more I try to envisage this situation, I see that WO will be entirely old (veteran) toons with all new players going to the Steam fresh server and any fairly new players on WO with not much to lose going also. 

Is it a lot different from now? No, but the chance of getting many new players again is likely gone bar the odd person wanting to sail around endlessly visiting a ghost town. 

 

An idea could be that the steam version is just a free trial area and if you want to play further, keep your skills and equipped gear and migrate to WO. 

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Sounds interesting but little to no interest to those of us who do not want to spend months and months rebuilding a new character's skills. If you look at Jackal population vs rest of freedom you can see there are quite a few who would rather not be bothered grinding all over. I know that some players have 12+ hrs a day to grind but most people do not, we have spent our time grinding and working on skills over longer periods of time. To have to spend all those months redoing that work makes me nauseous. 

 

I would be happy moving my characters with nothing but their skills and silvers I just bought (from CC no less) for leaving my old server (if you were shutting them down or merging them) But starting over, no I would probably request a refund on the subscriptions I just paid and find something else to do.

 

Also a side note, if you do start a steam server you will fracture the current population even more. In case you are thinking otherwise please revisit that conclusion. It may not be your intention but it will happen nonetheless.

 

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16 minutes ago, LordLouis said:

The more I try to envisage this situation, I see that WO will be entirely old (veteran) toons with all new players going to the Steam fresh server and any fairly new players on WO with not much to lose going also. 

Is it a lot different from now? No, but the chance of getting many new players again is likely gone bar the odd person wanting to sail around endlessly visiting a ghost town. 

 

An idea could be that the steam version is just a free trial area and if you want to play further, keep your skills and equipped gear and migrate to WO. 

Plenty play to keep their current situation character/possessions/location on the map/friends/work done on the map.. else what stopped them to leave wo for wu years ago?

I see no reason to go to the steam plebs on the new dirt piece. Ready to greet them after the merge.

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As far as I understand from the above, this sounds good to me. 

 

If (as I understand) you release a new island server (like a Wurm Online Expansion) on Steam, and then merge it with the existing WO world later, you can then release a 2nd brand new Island on steam and gather a whole new set of new players and so on.

 

I think that as long as all your WU and WO eggs are not in the same Steam basket, the existing native WO client remains for your core players and their existing experience is not adversely affected when merging happens, Steam could be an excellent method of rolling out new content in a modular way.

 

I think if we see the core of WO as the existing version, then potentially, offering WO Expansions on Steam could provide island after island full of new players waiting to join us.  At least this is what I understand and it sounds very positive.

 

I  think @NetEchois correct in that you will have full control over if and when to merge these new servers with the existing world, so these 'new' players will hopefully have had time to learn the ropes,  mature and settle down before joining our world. 

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7 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Plenty play to keep their current situation character/possessions/location on the map/friends/work done on the map.. else what stopped them to leave wo for wu years ago?

I see no reason to go to the steam plebs on the new dirt piece. Ready to greet them after the merge.

A server run by WO with WO rules, staff and unlikely to be shut down. 

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20 minutes ago, Muse said:

As far as I understand from the above, this sounds good to me. 

 

If (as I understand) you release a new island server (like a Wurm Online Expansion) on Steam, and then merge it with the existing WO world later, you can then release a 2nd brand new Island on steam and gather a whole new set of new players and so on.

 

I think that as long as all your WU and WO eggs are not in the same Steam basket, the existing native WO client remains for your core players and their existing experience is not adversely affected when merging happens, Steam could be an excellent method of rolling out new content in a modular way.

 

I think if we see the core of WO as the existing version, then potentially, offering WO Expansions on Steam could provide island after island full of new players waiting to join us.  At least this is what I understand and it sounds very positive.

 

I  think @NetEchois correct in that you will have full control over if and when to merge these new servers with the existing world, so these 'new' players will hopefully have had time to learn the ropes,  mature and settle down before joining our world. 

I see no reason to not be able to login with the one or another... usually there's a way to merge(offer steam link for the account and to continue with that from that point.. for the steam achievements and such)? If later that could be confirmed will be good..

New island is probably as testing grounds, expected new population is to be wild and massive... guessing that's the reason they will be offered their own piece of land instead spawning them at random points around xanadu.

 

After the first server.. boom of starting on steam etc.. and some idea of how many new players come in.. every month.. could just be solved with a balancer.. either you pick on which server to start/existing freedom/epic/jackal/ or .. starting you on a random pve/pvp server, if you're new it's not like it matters as they are all linked.. just require a bit of sailing around..

 

I think entropia universe offered different startup bonuses or situation(being on big market server, craft hub, common priest gathering..) for new players.. which made them pick this or that world to start on.. something like that could be made here.. offer different set of tools to the new players later on... some bonus, affinity, or something .. to make them pick.

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Learn the lessions from the WU community, implement some of the Quality of Life changes, but keep the essential grind. I am not saying making it easier, just remove the completely pointless annoying stuff that turns players off, like moving 10 tiles to meditate. Add changes like the option to have an autosorting ql of items in containers (or disable for default) plus digging and mining actions going in to the Wagon/Cart/Container. The list list a long one.

 

There will be existing players who won't like this, they will just tell you to go play WU, but for me this is about improving the long term viability of Wurm itself by making it less frustrating for new players and to stop the player drain that happens after 20 skill

 

 

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OH god, here comes my negativity, here it comes..!

I love the hell out of this idea!!!

Wait, that wasn't negative!

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yeah no, half the negative reviews for the lif mmo on steam are people calling the game "too grindy" even tho that game is 1000x less grindier than wurm. I guarantee you day one the game would have negative reviews from all the people who downloaded it expecting a rust-like experience. They'll spend 10 minutes trying to figure out how to craft stuff, notice that it takes 20 seconds to carve a shaft and just quit lol, they'll leave a nice fat bad review on their way out as well. Wurm online is just way too niche, at least with WU you get the choice to make the grind softer by changing server stats, in wo you cant do that.

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I have thought on this for a while. I probably have a unique perspective, as one who has seen Wurm evolve from its infancy, having started playing in 2003(ish?), played a couple of years into gold two, and taken a long break to come back to its current state a year ago. 

 

Wurm is an amazing game. Its longevity and spinoff progeny, by imitation prove it is a grandfather of its archetype. Other games that pay homage by game design to wurm sacrifice some of its grindiness  and permanence to cater to a less niche, larger, and more casual crowd. As it stands, coming back I saw some amazing improvements like multi story housing fleshed out, bridges, and subterranean dwellings.  I know this is no easy feat given the limitations of the games engine. It is honestly an accomplishment.

 

Which brings me to my most prominent thought. 

 

The game needs an updated engine to have a good chance of acquiring a stable population base in the future.  The difficulty of adding new content needs to be reduced, so more frequent and impactful updates can take place. I personally recall when caves did not exist and the awesome feeling of making one when the feature was introduced. Looking back at the more recent updates, they are relatively underwhelming. Entire games are made within the span of a few introductions and tweaks here. I don't want to put down the effort of the devs. To the contrary I know just how much intense work is needed to implement these changes.

 

Which brings me finally to a response to rolf's query.

 

I believe a steam launch would certainly be a boon, at least temporarily, and most certainly financially.  I do not believe it would retain a large player base in the long run. 

 

Furthermore I suspect it would further accelerate declines in the freedom servers as some wurmians will desire a fresh start (like jackal), but with more permanence.  I suspect Jackal itself has depressed freedom populations. Please correct me if i am wrong. 

 

IMO it would probably exceed the population of Freedom servers over time and neccesitate migrating Freedom to steam. All at the cost of %30 of revenue.

 

Edited by nygen
*posted early. Added to my thoughts.

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10 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

There is really no way to get any additional monetization out of WU players once they are in. Most of the profits/benefits from WU came from the first 300,000 or so sales, and there probably won't be many new sales.

 

A WO-Steam would make it possible to play on OFFICIAL SERVERS for free but it would preferable to have an Elite Monthly Pass thingybobber.  You'd probably have access to special titles and perks  if you were "in the club", things like a regular subscriber pack of sleep powders, free barbershop visits/silver mirror usage,  and maybe a monthly "gift" of some sort, something collectible but not powerful, like some of the christmas presents - yule goats and gnomes, that players can trade and sell.

Well how about a WU DLC that includes all the stuff that WO has kindly withheld from WU? I am willing to reach into my wallet for that.

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BTW - I encourage someone to do an extensive "test experience" session comparing a week or two grinding at 1 x on WO with grinding at 1x on WU. Personally I found WU was worse.

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I've suggested in the past to consolidate some of the current WO servers...

 

1- I think there needs to have 2-3 servers disappear. Make a lottery, 2 servers go in the next 6 months. Move your deed within the allotted time and be refunded your deed costs and upkeep from the past few months to help cover costs of deed materials. 

1.1- Be happy you get to keep your skills, tools, animals, etc. All you lose is the buildings and terraforming from a deed (I KNOW IT WILL BE HARD FOR SOME PLAYERS...)

2- Steam accounts should most likely be 'born' on a new piece of land, but allow transfer to current servers (one-way ticket) by boating across. One-way travel is up for 3 months, open two-way travel after. 

3- Maybe all accounts should be free-to-play..? Hike prices of deeds 3-5x the current amount. Buy the silver form the store, or work for it. Users that DON'T have a deed or contribute to a deed upkeep could have a soft skillcap set in place (such as after 40 skill). 

 

Opinions..? 

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2 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

I've suggested in the past to consolidate some of the current WO servers...

 

1- I think there needs to have 2-3 servers disappear. Make a lottery, 2 servers go in the next 6 months. Move your deed within the allotted time and be refunded your deed costs and upkeep from the past few months to help cover costs of deed materials. 

1.1- Be happy you get to keep your skills, tools, animals, etc. All you lose is the buildings and terraforming from a deed (I KNOW IT WILL BE HARD FOR SOME PLAYERS...)

2- Steam accounts should most likely be 'born' on a new piece of land, but allow transfer to current servers (one-way ticket) by boating across. One-way travel is up for 3 months, open two-way travel after. 

3- Maybe all accounts should be free-to-play..? Hike prices of deeds 3-5x the current amount. Buy the silver form the store, or work for it. Users that DON'T have a deed or contribute to a deed upkeep could have a soft skillcap set in place (such as after 40 skill). 

 

Opinions..? 

Although I agree with the there being too many servers part I don't agree with anybodies effort and time being turned away or converted to "silver". As any smart person will pick time over money. Also people have that have spent years developing their deeds with years worth of upkeep dedicated to it would not just up and go easily and if they did I can assure you they are not coming back.

I know a lot of games offer server transfers at certain times at a fee, guild wars 2 comes to mind but certain criteria need to be met for the server to open up to transfers.

 

It's hard enough for new players to own land, making it more expensive would not help at all. As a free to play player you start with zero coins, and dropping the deed alone is like 4s for a min size, if that gets doubled or tripled it means not many people will be dropping deeds, let alone paying another 20 euros for a sub subscription + 3-5s a month for a min size deed.
 

Just my thoughts

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7 minutes ago, Allenkey said:

I think there needs to have 2-3 servers disappear

 

I think all joy in the game would die for some players forced to move - I think some would not bother.  For some the location is everything - it would be like the Scottish clearances.  Lifestyle is so closely related to our location and the local resources.  Anyone forced to give up a prime location for a lesser location on one of the other servers might do just that - give up.  

 

It is well known that our lives are defined by the spaces we inhabit, and that includes our own spaces we have painstakingly carved out for ourselves in our virtual world.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Legios said:

It's hard enough for new players to own land, making it more expensive would not help at all. As a free to play player you start with zero coins, and dropping the deed alone is like 4s for a min size, if that gets doubled or tripled it means not many people will be dropping deeds, let alone paying another 20 euros for a sub subscription + 3-5s a month for a min size deed.

 

What I suggested though, is to rid the 'Premium', and only triple deed pricing. If you don't own a deed or contribute to upkeep (say mininum 15-20% of the upkeep price) that's when a soft cap comes into play. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Muse said:

 

I think all joy in the game would die for some players forced to move - I think some would not bother.  For some the location is everything - it would be like the Scottish clearances.  Lifestyle is so closely related to our location and the local resources.  Anyone forced to give up a prime location for a lesser location on one of the other servers might do just that - give up.  

 

It is well known that our lives are defined by the spaces we inhabit, and that includes our own spaces we have painstakingly carved out for ourselves in our virtual world.

 

 

What if you got to move the deed in its entirety to a new location? I'm aware of your point, but when a company is not doing great, they usually consolidate their assets. In this case, the assets are the players...

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