Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Zera said:

Unless you're still playing on WO anyway then it's hardly "new" since you're already doing it in the first place. :P

 

50 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Would be really nice to have a release with a bunch of new content

If they release new content then I wouldn't be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if anything new gets released on Steam, it would also be released on WO. I don't think they intend to diverge the two servers down different paths, just separate ones. The content should be identical.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Satch said:

I think if anything new gets released on Steam, it would also be released on WO. I don't think they intend to diverge the two servers down different paths, just separate ones. The content should be identical.

That's what they've been saying, the only thing coming to Steam is "A new client" and with it a new server will open. The only "separate" to be had is that you won't be able to sail between this new server and the existing ones. They aren't "Different" and they should still be accessible regardless of how you choose to launch the game.

They aren't separate games in any way like it seems @Angelklaineis thinking.

The features will all be identical. At best, they'd release new features at the same time as the Steam Client release but it wouldn't be exclusive. I also wouldn't expect them to do that either as that's quite a lot to put onto a plate all at once.

 

It would be in everyone's best interest to make sure what we have currently is stable, launch the new Client on Steam with the new Server release too and allow that to settle smoothly before introducing anything brand-new to the game.

Edited by Zera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When will be shown what the map looks like? I am very interested.

 

I hope its not Xana sized. I think it should be around the size of Indy or Chaos.

Edited by Sulevi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Sulevi said:

When will be shown what the map looks like? I am very interested.

 

I hope its not Xana sized. I think it should be around the size of Indy or Chaos.

Been confirmed the same size of Indy by retro, doubt the actual map has been made yet though

Edited by Jore
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2020 at 12:38 AM, Zera said:

That's what they've been saying, the only thing coming to Steam is "A new client" and with it a new server will open. The only "separate" to be had is that you won't be able to sail between this new server and the existing ones. They aren't "Different" and they should still be accessible regardless of how you choose to launch the game.

They aren't separate games in any way like it seems @Angelklaineis thinking.

The features will all be identical. At best, they'd release new features at the same time as the Steam Client release but it wouldn't be exclusive. I also wouldn't expect them to do that either as that's quite a lot to put onto a plate all at once.

 

It would be in everyone's best interest to make sure what we have currently is stable, launch the new Client on Steam with the new Server release too and allow that to settle smoothly before introducing anything brand-new to the game.

 

It's what they are saying now, but i wouldn't put my money on it a year or two down the line when one side or another starts making less money for them.

 

Statements made X years ago aren't promises as we heard....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bdew said:

 

It's what they are saying now, but i wouldn't put my money on it a year or two down the line when one side or another starts making less money for them.

 

Statements made X years ago aren't promises as we heard....

They're the same game, updates will happen to all servers, maintenance restarts will happen, we will push updates to Steam at the same time. 

 

Not a spin-off like WU was. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people are spreading misinformation saying that the PvP server for Steam WO has been postponed if not cancelled. Is this true? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, atazs said:

Some people are spreading misinformation saying that the PvP server for Steam WO has been postponed if not cancelled. Is this true? 

If I haven't said it, it's not true. (And I'd remember having to announce something so big.)

 

It's misinformation, as you said. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

They're the same game, updates will happen to all servers, maintenance restarts will happen, we will push updates to Steam at the same time. 

 

Not a spin-off like WU was. 

 

Again it is what you are saying now, can you honestly with 100% certainty tell us that position won't be reversed in the future?

Because i'm pretty sure rolf believed what he was saying about WU when that came out, and yet here we are...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, bdew said:

 

Again it is what you are saying now, can you honestly with 100% certainty tell us that position won't be reversed in the future?

Because i'm pretty sure rolf believed what he was saying about WU when that came out, and yet here we are...

WU and WO were always different branches of code though. Similar in many ways but still a different branch. 

 

The only thing "new" with this is a Client Launcher, just as using the Test Client to the Stable Client is now. The game is still the exact same thing, the servers are still the same thing. There is no difference.

 

While yes, what happened with WU vs WO is regrettable for a lot of WU enthusiasts; it was and is still a separate branch entirely from WO's game/server code.

Considering that the only new thing that this Steam Release is introducing separate from what is already in existence is this new launcher. There is no reason for them to decide to stop updating the old servers in favor of the new server(s), considering that the Steam Client will not be the only one who accesses the new server(s) either.

 

WU and WO (launched from steam) are two completely different scenarios @bdew  and it wouldn't benefit them in any way to choose to abandon old servers in favor of these new servers. Especially considering there isn't anything different about them besides a launch date.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zera said:

WU and WO were always different branches of code though. Similar in many ways but still a different branch. 

 

The only thing "new" with this is a Client Launcher, just as using the Test Client to the Stable Client is now. The game is still the exact same thing, the servers are still the same thing. There is no difference.

 

While yes, what happened with WU vs WO is regrettable for a lot of WU enthusiasts; it was and is still a separate branch entirely from WO's game/server code.

Considering that the only new thing that this Steam Release is introducing separate from what is already in existence is this new launcher. There is no reason for them to decide to stop updating the old servers in favor of the new server(s), considering that the Steam Client will not be the only one who accesses the new server(s) either.

 

WU and WO (launched from steam) are two completely different scenarios @bdew  and it wouldn't benefit them in any way to choose to abandon old servers in favor of these new servers. Especially considering there isn't anything different about them besides a launch date.

 

It's a separate scenario but the outcome will be the same. A company that screwed over a bunch of their customers once will just as happily do it again if they see a profit to be made from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bdew said:

 

It's a separate scenario but the outcome will be the same. A company that screwed over a bunch of their customers once will just as happily do it again if they see a profit to be made from it.

But that's just the thing you aren't understanding.

You're talking about it as if it's a completely different entity, but it isn't.

 

It's literally just a new launcher. Just a different way to login.

You're still connecting to the same databases, the same servers, still using the same online-shop system (which they will link with steam).

 

It's the same. Exactly the same.

It's not something "new".

There is nothing to "Drop".

 

What you're saying would be the equivalent of them stopping the unstable client.

Which has been around for what, ever?

 

WO on Steam is not "Buy a new game".

It's the same game.

It's the same servers.

 

I'm finding it hard to believe that of all folks, @bdewa well known Modder of WU doesn't understand that this is not in anyway shape or different "something new" that they could even consider "stopping support" for. To do so would be to drop WO altogether. As I continue to try to explain here, they are one and the same.

WU is NOT WO. WO is WO and "release to steam" is is still WO.

Same thing. Identical. Not different, at all. In any way shape or form.

 

How would shutting down WO servers benefit them in any way shape or form? Since you know, that's kind of the game as a whole. That thing that makes them money...

I don't understand here what you're thinking that you feel that WO Steam's release is in anyway different than what is already in existence.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zera said:

I'm finding it hard to believe that of all folks, @bdewa well known Modder of WU doesn't understand that this is not in anyway shape or different "something new" that they could even consider "stopping support" for. To do so would be to drop WO altogether. As I continue to try to explain here, they are one and the same.

 

Yes yes, WU wasn't something they could even consider "stopping support" for. Until they did.

They were the same codebase that would be developed together, or so we were told.

If you prefer to close your eyes and ignore how badly this company treats their community, simply because you were on the "right" side when they chose which half to screw over - it's your choice.

Edited by Pandalet
Moderation edit
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bdew said:

 

I'm sorry but i wasn't born with a grudge, all my grudges are formed as a direct response to people acting dishonorably towards me.

 

 

Yes yes, WU wasn't something they could even consider "stopping support" for. Until they did.

They were the same codebase that would be developed together, or so we were told.

If you prefer to close your eyes and ignore how badly this company treats their community, simply because you were on the "right" side when they chose which half to screw over - it's your choice.

As a matter of fact I play both games @bdew.
I understand 100% why they stopped providing new features to WU and I do not hold it against them for doing so.

The code for WU and WO couldn't possibly be the exact same thing as they do not function the same way in the least. No matter how hard you may try to set your settings in WU you can never completely replicate that of WO. Why? Because the coding is done differently to better handle the custom settings and features for a game that was now "redesigned" to support Single Player with adjustable settings.
WO on the other hand wasn't written with that sort of thing in mind, so the code-branches were always separated. Sure they may have originally promised to maintain both for the foreseeable future, every game typically does. It's not something unique to WU and Codeclub.

 

And no, you still refuse to understand. WU is a completely separate game.

You can stop providing new features to one game and decide to continue with another.

You can't decide to stop providing new features to a game and somehow still expect to support a limited playerbase of that same game? - I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to be explaining this one because you fail to understand the fact that it is not "A different Game" like WU is from WO.

 

Maybe if I put into WU terms. "I launched my Main character via the Steam's "PLAY" button and then I launched my GM character via the "WurmLauncher.exe" located in the folder itself."

They are the same game, aren't they? Or are you going to tell me that they aren't?

 

That's exactly what I've been trying to say this "Steam Release" is to the "Current WO Launcher".
 

And regardless of where your grudge comes from/was formed from. "The birth place" is the same thing you continue to argue for and refuse to listen to reason on this entire subject.

Regardless of what may have caused your hatred towards Code-Club and Wurm Online in general (which is funny if you still continue to play the WU game in the first place, if you hated the company that much you would stop playing it and stop encouraging anyone to play either. Wouldn't you?) you still continue to refuse to accept that you are arguing the a Single Game entity will be dropped because you feel they did it to WU, why not do it to WO.

 

WO is WO. Regardless of how you access it. Website download, Friend sent you the files, Steam, some back-ass-wards way of obtaining the client... It's still WO. It's still the exact same thing.

It is not in anyway shape or form like WU. At all.

 

Unless you are saying that Codeclub will eventually shut-down ALL Wurm Online servers that currently exist, will potentially exist and otherwise. Meaning that Wurm Online as a whole, will cease.

That @bdewis what you continue to say with each post you are making. The eventually Wurm Online will cease altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

In the end, when you purchase a game, from any company.
You are buying it "As-Is" and nothing is promised. Words are nice, but they are not obligated to do anything more than to grant you initial access to that game.

 

If Codeclub decided to stop updating WU, that is their prerogative and they have every right to do so. (Just as you have every right to stop supporting your old/abandoned mods for WU if you so choose for any reason) The same goes for Wurm Online. If they decided to shut-down all servers right this second, they can do that too. We pay for a right to access software and an experience they are selling. They have provided it "as-is" and you paid for that right, nothing more.

 

So regardless of how you or anyone else feels about their choice to stop providing new content to WU or whether or not you believe that the "Steam Release" is in-fact a whole new game entity (like WU is) or not is all irrelevant.

If you are not happy with the path they are taking, then simply don't support them. End of Story.

Don't give them more money, don't play their game(s). It's really as simple as that.

Coming to the forums to rage about upset you are that they decided to discontinue the support you wanted for a game you paid for "as-is" is selfish in reality. Quite frankly it's an incredibly common behavior these days, a certain entitlement that folks feel they are owed something more than what they actually paid for.

I don't recall signing any contracts with Codeclub when I bought Wurm Unlimited (or Wurm Online) that said services and updates would be provided indefinitely for the rest of my life.

Do you?

Can I see a copy of that?

Edited by Zera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks, you're welcome to disagree with each other, debate the finer points, etc, but please keep it civil.  Personal attacks are not ok, and will not be tolerated.

 

Pandalet (LFM)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't understand the expectation of support for a buy to play game to continue indefinitely. Wurm Unlimited was sold years ago and was featured in the humble bundle for a dollar. Yet people expect for the company to continue to develop it until the end of time.

 

The game is still available and in working order. It is stable, can continue to be modded, and provides a full experience to anyone who cares to play it. It hasn't disappeared in some random black hole like so many dead mmos out there, so the sentiment that they screwed their community is completely wrong. Whats more is that the fact that they were giving the same updates to both games while WO players had to pay a subscription and WU players did not, it nearly killed WO. 

 

I am surprised they stopped pushing updates to WU, but it was inevitable if we wanted the company to continue to operate, but by no means did they screw the community over by doing so. You cant expect to pay a dollar and expect development to continue forever indefinitely including massive updates.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I personally don't understand the expectation of support for a buy to play game to continue indefinitely. Wurm Unlimited was sold years ago and was featured in the humble bundle for a dollar. Yet people expect for the company to continue to develop it until the end of time.

 

14 hours ago, Zera said:

You are buying it "As-Is" and nothing is promised. Words are nice, but they are not obligated to do anything more than to grant you initial access to that game.

 

Rolf very clearly stated in his WU FAQ that the game will be developed in parallel with WO and all features and code will be shared between them. Those statements were why we bought the game in the first place. Stop trying to spin it.

 

Moreover, the WU community and modders contributed countless hours to making WO a better game. About half the updates WO got over the last few years started as WU mods, stuff like placing things on tables was said to be completely impossible by the devs for years before WU until i figured out how to do it and released it as a WU mod. Stuff like archeology journal, creature cages, colored creatures, priest rework, etc... all started as WU mods or were heavily inspired by them.

 

Critical bugs in WO were fixed because some WU modder sat and did codeclub's job for them. Stuff like rubberbanding on cave bridges that plagued WO for weeks was fixed the next day after that code was added to WU because i spent an evening debugging movement code then chasing WO devs on IRC to tell them how to fix it.

Edited by Retrograde
Removed lines
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, bdew said:

Moreover, the WU community and modders contributed countless hours to making WO a better game.


 

Well and isn’t the last WU update just agro’s mod loader being added into the base game? .. so another example... 

 

I 100% understand where bdew is coming from. I feel like WU was severely mishandled with humble bundle which in the end caused its end of support. However, I also understand why it had to stop support to focus on WO because that’s what is paying their paychecks and they need to beef up the player base paying for subscriptions to continue revenue. 
 

I would also confirm that there is a deep mistrust of the decision makers of this great game within the hearts of many WU players and bdew is the only one brave enough to vocalize this mistrust that I’ve seen so far. So thank you Bdew to make this known because I know a lot of great WU players that are really broken up over the end of support.
 

Im not here to debate if WU is WO under the hood, but simply confirm the thoughts of bdew—there are many thinking this as well. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks retro for editing my post to completely remove the point i was trying to make.

 

The truth hurts doesn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bdew,

 

So I've spent a bit of time arguing this with you, but I'm going to put it to rest here. 

 

The mods added to Wurm Unlimited have stemmed from plenty of ideas on the suggestion board, and just because a modder did it too, does not mean we stole an idea. 

 

The only instance where an idea was directly taken was after Budda worked on the Archaeology journal work you did and asked your permission to include it in his update of it, which you freely gave.

 

I have always appreciated your work on modding and Wurm Unlimited in general, and have thanked you several times throughout updates for the hard work you have done. 

 

What I will not tolerate is you continuing to push a false narrative about all your ideas being stolen when they were taken from the suggestions board beforehand, and we have spoken at length about this whole situation.

 

I'm going to consider your attempts to further shed Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt as deliberate trolling attempts, as I have given you all the information counter to it. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bdew said:

Thanks retro for editing my post to completely remove the point i was trying to make.

 

The truth hurts doesn't it?

What is it you're trying to prove though? Or are you just ranting for the sake of ranting? Are you really arguing over the decisions of a Dev team that is not the same than the one you had when this things happened, who worked for a creator that no longer owns the company?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

all your ideas being stolen

 

I never said that. It would be extremely silly of me to say so considering all my mods are open source with a very permissive license.

 

6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The only instance where an idea was directly taken was after Budda worked on the Archaeology journal

 

This is a lie. There are other examples of my work that benefitted WO in the very post you edited.

 

My narative is not and never was "my ideas were stolen", my narative is "we as a community did everything to help CodeClub and got screwed over in response".

 

EDIT: And i'm sure you know that, that's why you had to delete half my post to allow you to put a strawman narrative in my mouth.

Edited by bdew
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the developer team spent a lot of time helping with mods, adding features for modders to use, and working with modders on debugging mods and providing insight. 

 

It was a two way street and still is, if you choose to stop harassing the staff for the decision made. 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.