Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

Recommended Posts

On 11/7/2019 at 4:54 AM, Jeston said:

 

There are actually many server owners in WU who took the money and ran, revenant for example.

 

Sure, it can happen.  Of course, in WU, the actual money spent by the player is usually so minimal as to be not worth considering in the overall scheme of things unless someone goes batshit crazy "donating" for more useless cosmetics than they really need, on servers that have a shop.  But only a few WU servers have any kind of a cash shop anyway and as a rule on those that do, the value for what you spend is worth it if you use any kind of common sense. The majority are completely free once you own the game, so what do you really lose if they go down. (unlike WO where one has conceivably spent hundreds or thousands over the years and have to keep paying monthly for deeds and/or premium). 

 

Also, I like to think of it as not keeping all my proverbial eggs in one proverbial basket.  Personally I play on a few different, very well established servers.   I would say the odds of any those cutting & running are about on par with this new company that took over WO doing the same.  But if one does go down, I still have the others I play on.  It would be annoying, sure, but not devastating since the money I've spent on WU is a drop in the bucket compared to what I've spent on WO for a comparable period. 

 

edit:  Losing the work put in would also be annoying, to be sure, but that's somewhat mitigated if it's a server that didn't take as much "work" as WO.  Still would be a bit easier to take than if WO ever goes down, where the work and money over the years are not even in the same league as WU.

Edited by Amadee
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/7/2019 at 1:54 PM, Jeston said:

 

There are actually many server owners in WU who took the money and ran, revenant for example.

 

So you got one example of one bad person running a WU server, and that makes WU bad?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/7/2019 at 10:06 AM, Mordraug said:

 

If CodeClub is serious about abandoning updates to WU, the same will apply to them =P 

No see, you received the product you paid for in 2014 that is for sure. Not nearly the same as taking money and giving you nothing, read before you respond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2019 at 11:11 AM, Dextrome said:

 

So you got one example of one bad person running a WU server, and that makes WU bad?

There has been several other servers. 

Servers where the devs asked for donations and taking money, then later they just suddenly shut down the server with no warnings. The devs just flat out dissapeared, cut contact and people still have no idea what happened.

 

Then there are the still buggy playercounts in the server browser that just lie and confuse new/unaware players. Some servers fake these numbers, while other servers just get bugged out and display the wrong playercount until their restart. 

 

Should i go on why WU is bad? 

Edited by atazs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jeston said:

No see, you received the product you paid for in 2014 that is for sure. Not nearly the same as taking money and giving you nothing, read before you respond.

 

I bought it (full price) under the premise that was advertised which was that WU would receive WO's core updates, albeit not some features like rifts.  It was not advertised as "will be updated for <x> years at which time we will evaluate whether to continue updating it or not".  Nice try, though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are also many many players who are insincere as well as server hosts. There are advantages and disadvantages, yes. The disadvantage with WO is that if you get on the bad side of the GMs/devs, you're done, finished, and won't be coming back; but in WU you always have a chance going to another server or starting your own server. If you have a character and a deed on a WO server that is reset, bad luck, live with it. With WU it goes both ways, for everything bad you say about WU, you can say something good too; there are some really bad server owners, yes, there are some really good too, yes. There are some with fake numbers, yes, there are some without fake numbers, yes. There are WU servers which are fast and easy, yes, there are WU servers which are hardcore hard, yes. With WO you can say what the game is about, with WU it depends on which server you look at. So making general statements about WU, is not sincere, unless you actually talk about game mechanics which is another matter, more or less, it also is very different between servers of course, so no, it all depends on server.

 

When it comes to the fact that players pick bad servers, is it their own fault or WU? Blaming WU is like blaming Email for some people using it for sending spam, and if you send all your money to some guy in Africa, or buy lots of viagra, that's your own fault for having a bad judgement; you don't blame Email, it's just a service. Many Email services have spam filters, something similar could be invested with WU though, some kind of server "pledge"; server hosts pledge to fulfill a certain set of agreements. But the same should be then applied for players, and then if you bust that, you only have the bad servers to pick from.

Edited by Tenniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

 

I bought it (full price) under the premise that was advertised which was that WU would receive WO's core updates, albeit not some features like rifts.  It was not advertised as "will be updated for <x> years at which time we will evaluate whether to continue updating it or not".  Nice try, though.

It's ok that a company decide that a product isn't making enough revenue and they pull it from the market. I'm ok with that. The entire history of Wurm has been very experimental, so it couldn't be expected that in this specific instance they should be forced to uphold some promise that was made 5 years ago, when they just released WU experimentally to see if it would hit. It did for some time, and in many ways due to neglect, the game is now failing to sell as much as hoped for. I am personally fully convinced, that WU would become a complete hit if it wasn't built to be a "demo" for WO (and that unless you eventually migrate to WO you're not an accepted customer). WU has everything and more, to be the game people go to after they get fed up with MineCraft, in my opinion.

 

There is however a lot of players who have invested a lot of time and faith in WU, and a lot of servers who have invested a lot of money and time. What is insincere, in my opinion again, is not being clear about what WU players and server hosts can expect in the future. It's not been stated that WU will be shut down and removed from Steam, so far, but it's not been stated either (that I'm aware of), that WU will remain on Steam forever and that it's only updates that are withheld. Without clarification, all WU players and server hosts are kept hostages in a, more or less, blackmail situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 minutes ago, Tenniel said:

 Without clarification, all WU players and server hosts are kept hostages in a, more or less, blackmail situation.

 

What would be the point of any further clarification if a few years down the line they can go back on it and people will tell us "oh they promised it X years ago and can't be expected to uphold it".

 

Trust is hard resource to earn, and they just dumped a bunch of it in the trash with this move.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bdew said:

 

 

What would be the point of any further clarification if a few years down the line they can go back on it and people will tell us "oh they promised it X years ago and can't be expected to uphold it".

 

Trust is hard resource to earn, and they just dumped a bunch of it in the trash with this move.

Yes, I fully agree with that, but at least a clarification would be something. Currently, we have nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tldr, regarding WO Steam, in my book it's not something that can be trusted since it could "suffer the same fate as WU".  In other words, I subscribe, pay for a deed, play a certain amount of time the suddenly "heeeeey so it's not as profitable as we thought, we're gonna shut it down kthxbai".  Granted, CC is fully invested in WO so it's not a LIKELY scenario, but I know that as an old WO player... new players however, seeing WU's fate, won't be so easy to convince.

 

Meh, their grave not mine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There'll be an official clarification/announcement soon. I'm not sure where the idea of shutting WU down and removing it from Steam came from, there's no chance of that happening.

We're currently working on something to not leave WU as is. While it won't be getting any of the new WO updates, we're looking at making using mods easier overall, as well as a bugfixing update.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Samool said:

There'll be an official clarification/announcement soon. I'm not sure where the idea of shutting WU down and removing it from Steam came from, there's no chance of that happening.

We're currently working on something to not leave WU as is. While it won't be getting any of the new WO updates, we're looking at making using mods easier overall, as well as a bugfixing update.

 

I really don't think many are talking about shutting down WU and removing it from Steam, not sure where that's coming from.  What people are upset about is the broken promises of always supporting WU, that it was to be a sister game, not an unwanted stepchild, and that it would "always" get "all" updates except a few features that would be held back like rifts. It was also promised that it would "always" get all graphical updates.  Now it's just being dropped like a piece of trash.  There was a lot of skepticism in the beginning and a lot of questions about the potential for this sort of thing happening and everyone was assured that it would not happen.   Oh, and we get a final " bugfixing update?" And then you're done with us?  Since when has a bugfixing update ever fixed all the bugs?  lol.  Thanks, I needed a good laugh in the midst of all this.

 

Speaking for myself of course, but I know a lot of others feel the same, my trust has finally gone completely out the window. I've tried to believe in this company for so long.  Sure, I believe you (collective you, the company), will be making an "official" statement.  Like all the "official" statements that were made before?  What I don't believe any more is that we can put any stock or faith in what's being said. Quite honestly, I doubt I'll believe a single word.   You now say "...it won't be getting any of the new WO updates......."   Interesting that back when we were all sold on WU in the first place it was "it won't be getting all of the new updates."   Big difference there.

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm starting to really regret that I've continued to support WO all this time by continuing deed upkeep and premium in WO even though I've been playing WU.  Now I honestly don't know that I care to continue giving my money to a company I can't trust anything they say.  Look at my signature. It's something I live by.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I consider much of that WU discussion silly. Still I think CC/GC must not leave WU in the cold, and so far I welcome Samool's statement. Yet I think upholding continuity between WU and WO is a good idea not only for trust into the company and its promises, but also both technically and psychologically for both sides. WO profits from WU developments, too, and much of the bickering between WU and WO players is nonsense as well. It would be good if things like contributors' packages in open source developments could be handed out to WU developers in a form both WO team and WU admins could be happy with.

 

As to promises of a company: When the company goes titsup, all promises are vein, no other than mortals can only promise for their lifetime. And if a company is in troubles, also all but binding contractual obligations may become void. But said that it would be good if CC/GC would show their commitment to uphold the ties to the WU community.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WU should be treated as an extension to WO and not as a standalone game. 

 

This whole WO vs WU fiasco could have been avoided if the devs instead sat down and reworked the game over time from top to bottom: Slowly transitioning everything to Steam under the name "Wurm Online" and combining the features of WU into it with the ability to host private servers while also hosting the current official servers in it.

 

Free to download and play on any servers, while keeping the current restrictions in place on the official servers lest people buy premium. Then make it mandatory for people to rent servers from the devs if they want to have their own servers to generate income for the Wurm team. Just like Rust does.

That way, there will be less small and crappy servers flooding the game, and the servers themselves will be more reliable, while generating income for the developers at the same time. A win win.

 

But no, instead soon we will have 3 Wurms: 

A Wurm Online

A Wurm Unlimited that isn't connected to Wurm Online 

And a Wurm Online on Steam (will it be called Wurm Online?) that won't be connected to non steam Wurm Online (at least at first but who knows?) 

 

If that isn't confusing for new players trying to get into the game then i don't know what is. It will also obviously greatly upset the current WO players as well as WU players.

 

Oh wait, it already did.... 

Edited by atazs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyway what major updates WO had? last 2 ones was cooking and the crap fishing, that already on wu...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was also that priest update, though most of that was Sindusk's work and was pretty much a port from his server on WU

 

Edited by atazs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just port all the existing servers to Steam, do not split playerbase more and more.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Just port all the existing servers to Steam, do not split playerbase more and more.

(Samool or Retro pls correct me if I am wrong)

You seem to misunderstand. There are no servers on steam, just clients and players' access to games. And for the time being, CC/GC has decided that the newly set up server is exclusively accessible to players using a steam WO client (still to come).

 

If any time in the future the borders between this server and Freedom will be opened, it would be possible for steam users to log on in Freedom, and for classic WO users to sail over to the "steam WO server" and log off and on there. There are games which have only one server with players who sub on the company site and those subbing over steam, so that is not against Valve's policies. RMT though remains a problem, at least under the prospect that Freedom and Epic servers, with their RMT culture, will be accessible from steam.

 

For me, being forced onto steam would be a nono. I hate their lousy interface, forcing to hold worthless 32bit libraries on Linux likely compromising OS stability and resource voracious in addition. I hate their padded cell policy inviting "bringing all your games onto steam" which means that you never get them out and handover all your consumer rights to Valve for free. Nevertheless, hundreds of million people have fallen for steam, so it is reasonable to offer WO over steam. But if ever possible, not me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Amadee said:

*snip*

 

What Amadee said.  Ty, saved me a lot of typing :3 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Samool said:

There'll be an official clarification/announcement soon.'

Will that official announcement also include a reason for me to play "Wurm Online Steam version" which will probably cost me 8-12 euros every single month over "Wurm Unlimited" which I have bought for myself and 3 other friends for under 4 Euros all keys included?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Will that official announcement also include a reason for me to play "Wurm Online Steam version"..

hopefully not 😎

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how naive people are, if they still do not understand, that this is pure greediness from the developers.

Let's point some of the bulls**t what i see here:

 

1. New seperate servers, which will require:
  * New character (New skills) which obviously, you need premium for.

 

2. Literally, THE SAME game, on a new server (Yaaay, same stuff on a new server) - Why??
Let me explain... You are going to start on a new, fresh server, so...

* Noone will have any source of generating income, so mainly all the silver obtained will come from what? ---> Silver shop, that's right!

* Ohh and yes... you forgot, no deeds will exist, so what do we do? ---> Silver shop! Buy silver for your deed. (YAY)

 

3. This is the biggest and MOST obvious flaw of the whole idea.

What is going to happen in long-term?

 

Lets consider future A):

 

* New server has been launched, it is independent of all the other wurm servers. People are grinding their skills, building their deeds, the map is fresh, stats are fresh, people feel the joy of new start.

It seems to have been working, as people are investing their money into the game, but sadly, soon the reality catches up, and people wake up on the server, after months of playing, and realising... THIS is the same old game, we played on freedom.

So what's different? 

 

Lets consider future B):

 

* New server has been launched. Players have grinded their skills, built their deeds, economy is somewhat set in the server, people are trading, generating their income. And suddenly, Announcement -- Hey guys, we will connect Goood Ol' freedom servers with the new server, so you can enjoy the "big community". 

-- 1. The whole economy in the new server has crashed, and now is influenced by general freedom market

-- 2. The players, who have started in the new server, now have 2 accounts on freedom. Basicly wasting time in grinding their new account in first place, because, why would you?

 

So what is the future of wurm? Are we looking at new servers every 2 years, just to "start over"?

I bought WU, and what happens in few months?? Developers no longer developing the game, WU is left as it pretty much was, dead... Kept alive by few great server owners, investing their time to actually DEVELOP the game (By modding).

So what will happen with Steam-release? Same what happend with Reign of Kings (Does someone remember the game?) They basicly released the game, stopped development, some bugfixes now and then.

Now, go in Steam page and read the reviews.Once you break the trust of the playerbase, GL getting it back.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Zibens said:

I bought WU, and what happens in few months??

 

The answer can be found in the dev blog which they just released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ecrir said:

 

The answer can be found in the dev blog which they just released.

 


Yes.. My fustration is about the fact, that nobody told us, that they will not develop the WU, as they are developing WO. 

If i would know that, i would have never bought WU in first place.

The initial information was, that it's going to be WO on Private servers. Now it's what, basicly dumping everything on modders, for the game to have somewhat development.

 

Basicly, people were lured in, by having same Wurm Online, on private servers.

I feel betrayed, simple as that.

Edited by Zibens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.