Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

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Quick suggestion,

Perhaps when new players join through Steam, they might be only allowed to play on the Steam cluster for a certain period of time, a bit like a Golden Valley situation, but not really. Then after a set amount of time(12-48 hours?) or experience, they could be allowed to play on the OG clusters on a clean slate or whatever the devs decide.

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23 hours ago, jonsnow said:

Like I said before, your market is already tapped for the existing game.  Further marketing would not help, because niche games like this are sought out by players looking for a game like this.

 

I seriously doubt the validity of this statement. There is no way they have even reached 50% of the gaming population much less tapped that market completely.  You can do very basic searches for a sandbox crafting mmo and wurm never pops up? There almost no mentions of it on mmo websites. If those 2 very basic information areas are not saturated with at least mentions of it. How could the market be tapped?

 

On a side note, I ran into a singular post about wurm in 2006 or 2007, it was a blog that happen to mention some game I can''t remember was like wurm online. That was the only reason I found wurm and I only found that because I was bored and clicking a link a blog I had never read before. 

 

I think it has been only in the last year that there has been any push what-so-ever in marketing of wurm through twitch? I have not see anything else in my casual searches.

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Posted (edited)

The devs have to decide is WO different from WU..?
The avg spend on a game was $1.5k. How am I going to get my $1.5k worth over $20..? !!What is going to make me stay beyond that..?!!
I luv WO..! ..But I think it takes a certain kind of person to stick with WO over all the offerings.. The team is competing with itself, modders and the real competion now so they have to start bringing their A+ game. What I'm seeing is WO wants to step up a class in the competion..then it has to be serious about what it brings. I don't think there is anything particularly "wrong" with WO..I once got pretty at the end of my length with WO once and went browsing as to what is on offer & Wo still stands just above the rest. It's prolly for that reason alone I have always wished WO brought more to the table..more crafting..more building (I heard there is a building update soon-ish)..more of this & more of that. Statues are nice but an example of what I hope wurm isn't about: extreme endless grinding (why gods are 40ish frags and other statues 90ish frags and not the other way around idk)(you're likely to only spend so much of that $1.5k on statues)
I really hope you get more players like Macoofer who really exercise the purpose of being sandbox like he is doing with his village. It inspired me to rethink my village.
I have to admit if I loose RMT it's going to have to be super balanced coz I like spending RL coin on this game..it's just not so easy to part me with a buttload of it at once coz ik how much my builsings are going to cost me in mats & labour

Edited by Seraph

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11 hours ago, Anunnaki said:

On a side note, I ran into a singular post about wurm in 2006 or 2007, it was a blog that happen to mention some game I can''t remember was like wurm online. That was the only reason I found wurm and I only found that because I was bored and clicking a link a blog I had never read before. 

 

I think it has been only in the last year that there has been any push what-so-ever in marketing of wurm through twitch? I have not see anything else in my casual searches.

 

I cannot agree more. Wurm is virtually invisible on the Internet, and as much as I am aware how hard it is to overcome the highly monetized SEO and marketing schemes of Google, Facebook and similar rogues which make web searches a pain (at least without substantial bribes), there could be done more about. In fact, I would not have learnt about Wurm without the recommendation of a fellow player in an other niche game. That was why I tried it first in 2012 (was too strongly connected to the other game to seriously play it, and was not overwhelmed by graphics and character appearance at that time which has changed dramatically).

 

I don't know how successful it would be to continuously write to editorial offices of all relevant gaming, and prolly Linux and Mac oriented mags and portals, sending press releases about all major changes in Wurm, aiming at 2liners in the miscellaneous columns of such media, e.g. "Wurm Online (link) is planning a steam release in 2020. The game, sometimes dubbed as 'Minecraft [tm] for adults', has been launched in ..."  . That would suffice to prompt a couple of readers to have look.

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Reading this thread more and more i really get frustrated with people.

First of all when will people learn that if downfall of Wurm comes they are the one to blame and not Wurm team. Heck it's only handfull of them against human nature. When will people who play this game learn that they have the power to shut it down and not the team. You love this game as you claim, ###### stick with it, sink with it if it needs, ###### the 80 euros you threw away, instead of trying to cash out and flee like a rat on a first wawe. Whining and demanding about how population is low and there are too much servers won't get you anywhere.  I also think that seperating steam players is bad idea but pesimistic mentality of people is unbelievable lately.

If you really love this game and want it to last, if you want players numbers to stop declining endure the hard times, stick with it and hope for better future otherwise we shall surely fail. It is us who can solve problem of declining playerbase by simply stop declining and having a little more faith in them not the dev team.

Peace out

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12 hours ago, kochinac said:

Reading this thread more and more i really get frustrated with people.

First of all when will people learn that if downfall of Wurm comes they are the one to blame and not Wurm team. Heck it's only handfull of them against human nature. When will people who play this game learn that they have the power to shut it down and not the team. You love this game as you claim, ###### stick with it, sink with it if it needs, ###### the 80 euros you threw away, instead of trying to cash out and flee like a rat on a first wawe. Whining and demanding about how population is low and there are too much servers won't get you anywhere.  I also think that seperating steam players is bad idea but pesimistic mentality of people is unbelievable lately.

If you really love this game and want it to last, if you want players numbers to stop declining endure the hard times, stick with it and hope for better future otherwise we shall surely fail. It is us who can solve problem of declining playerbase by simply stop declining and having a little more faith in them not the dev team.

Peace out

 

I agree and I have and will continue to support this game until the very brink. You won't be seeing me sell off the my main accounts or gear. I am not going to cash out but I may not choose to support it further if they continue down paths that are not healthy to Wurm Online. I am not talking about the health of the CC AB and GCG but of WO itself. You right i shouldn't whine and instead hope for the best.

 

It looks like we are going to lose Samool's creativity and hard work on WO, I do not see how he will be able to split time between product management, steam realease client, and WO client needs. That looks like an awful lot of work for 1 person. 

 

I do not think throwing new servers out in hopes of a revitalization of the player-base and their bottom line is the answer. Steam release will help some, maybe even help a lot in the long term but at what cost? Short term gains, yes they will see some but the only true way to keep a players interest in a sandbox game is through new content and/or innovation.

 

examples of things - coming soon

 

 

 

 

However you correct, whining will not solve anything. All we can say is Good Luck CC.

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13 hours ago, Anunnaki said:

It looks like we are going to lose Samool's creativity and hard work on WO, I do not see how he will be able to split time between product management, steam realease client, and WO client needs. That looks like an awful lot of work for 1 person. 

The steam client will be the same as the ogwo client, and will be his focus of work, like how Budda did server work and product management

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On 10/1/2019 at 1:43 PM, Anunnaki said:

 

I seriously doubt the validity of this statement. There is no way they have even reached 50% of the gaming population much less tapped that market completely.  You can do very basic searches for a sandbox crafting mmo and wurm never pops up? There almost no mentions of it on mmo websites. If those 2 very basic information areas are not saturated with at least mentions of it. How could the market be tapped?

 

On a side note, I ran into a singular post about wurm in 2006 or 2007, it was a blog that happen to mention some game I can''t remember was like wurm online. That was the only reason I found wurm and I only found that because I was bored and clicking a link a blog I had never read before. 

 

I think it has been only in the last year that there has been any push what-so-ever in marketing of wurm through twitch? I have not see anything else in my casual searches.

In terms of true MMO Sandbox games, yes it has been tapped completely. If you go to semi populated Rust servers and Ark server they know about the game. No one plays because you have to grind for 6 months or spend thousands of dollars to jump right in. The game is too slow and has zero reward in the long term views of things, you can't just pick up Wurm for 2-3 hours a night and jump into pvp. In Rust you can literally have a decent base setup in 45 minutes and go start harassing for pvp. 45 minutes in Wurm as a new player your lucky to even made it off of a starter town and if you do you'll probably die to wolves or drown.

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Posted (edited)

You may have met a few Ark or Rust players who know about Wurm, but your assertion is simply untrue and calling those two "true MMO games" is at least debatable but so what. I know people who played both games a while but never heard about Wurm (not that I am sure they would get a liking for).

 

3 hours ago, Holar said:

No one plays because you have to grind for 6 months or spend thousands of dollars to jump right in.

 

That is utter nonsense. I play Wurm and did not spend more than 80 Euro for a full year.

 

Quote

 

The game is too slow and has zero reward in the long term views of things, you can't just pick up Wurm for 2-3 hours a night and jump into pvp.

 

Right, that is not how Wurm is working. Ok, and our PvP is dead, unfortunately, hopefully not forever. The majority of MMO players, here as well as elsewhere, prefers PvE anyway.

 

And yes, a complex game with more depth is slower. Making Wurm as shallow as Rust and Ark will kill it.

 

Edit: To elaborate, I do not say that Ark, Rust, or others are bad, or unsuccessful which they demonstrably are not. But there are a lot of fairly easy to start, shallow PvP brawl games out in the world, many of them fairly well balanced and implemented, some always vanishing others emerging. Wurm cannot compete here.

 

Edited by Ekcin

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Posted (edited)
On 9/24/2019 at 1:35 AM, Nappy said:

Well how about a WU DLC that includes all the stuff that WO has kindly withheld from WU? I am willing to reach into my wallet for that.

 

I'd definitely pay more for WU in some form. I've got nearly 2.2k hours since I bought it during pre-release, and I've very much had way more than my £22 worth. (Or however much pre-order was.) I didn't mind the base premium subscription of WO, and if WU had gone that route too I'd have paid a subscription to incentivise CC to keep WU just as up to date as WO. However I would expect a WU subscription to be noticeably less than WO's as the customers have to host the worlds themselves at their expense.

 

That being said I think its now too late to bring this in. WU has been sold as a one off cost with its fate sealed. A subscription, or pay-per-upgrade, could not easily be brought in now and would just divide the already small player base into haves and have-nots, much like expansion packs do for any retail game. There are still some very noticeable bugs in WU of which likely can't be mod fixed, not to mention behind feature wise, that will likely go ignored for a very long time if not indefinitely since the Steam WO announcement. -- I am concerned with WU's future as much as I still love it, but from a business perspective I understand why its not viable for CC to put much time into it. I think that CC over-promised on what WU would always be. Great for initial sales only until they dry up.

 

The reason I left WO back in 2012 was the lack of reasonably habitable land (from the perspective of a new-ish player) and the excessive microtransactions just to keep your small settlement in existence, which effectively made WO into a very elitist environment. (This was before Xandu.) The content of your wallet directly determined your success no matter how hard you work in game. -- I was very happy when I heard WU announced.

 

On 9/26/2019 at 12:45 PM, Gavin said:

Putting a client on Steam that lets you connect to the official servers would be great for the game and in my opinion is what Wurm Unlimited should have been in the first place. I'm against any sort of further segregation or new servers however. 

 

In my opinion something that would combine the best of all ideas and current game modes:

 

- Release Wurm Online to Steam as a free to download game, game will let you connect to current servers just like the client, nothing changes 

- Wurm Unlimited is completely deleted and is now instead a DLC option of Wurm Online at the same purchase price of Wurm Unlimited,

- Anyone who has purchased Wurm Unlimited should get a code to unlock the DLC for free

- Anyone who is playing Wurm Unlimited should be able to convert over their saves and servers with zero effort to be use with the new client

 

Suddenly everything is completely integrated into the one game and client.

 

I think creating another "cluster" would be an extremely bad idea and I question if we need more maps too. 

 

A seamless transition from WU being standalone to a WO DLC sounds ideal in a utopian way, but I don't for a minute believe that WU has produced anywhere near enough revenue for even 1% of the labour cost required to do this.

 

There is then also the modding aspect to consider, of which us WU regulars have gotten very fond of. If WU were to become a DLC of WO we would be strongly dissatisfied to have the modding taken away.

 

On 9/26/2019 at 2:05 PM, Tathar said:

One reason why I ended up leaving WO for WU permanently a couple years ago was that the monthly cost of multiple premium characters (main and two priests) plus a deed was far above the value I was getting out of it.  If it was the deed only, I could stomach it (or join someone else's deed if I couldn't), but I think this double-dipping for cash is a big reason why so many leave WO once they hit 20.  Priest restrictions were another major pain point that led to my move, because it made the monthly cost problem that much worse.

 

There's also the problem of the in-game economy being mostly stagnant, with what little cash flow there is generally going from those at the bottom to those at the top.  There needs to be more circulation of coin between players, and with specific attention to how that circulation flows.  Some of this also has to do with high-QL tools being priced so low that mid-QL tools can't even sell, so maybe there should be something that makes high-QL stuff much more expensive or difficult to make, scaling the price steeper.  Also someone should look at how tool repair prevents tools from leaving circulation, making the problem worse over time, and take steps to change that.

 

If I'm going to come back to WO, I *need* these issues to be addressed, because a new cluster and starting over isn't going to be enough to win me over.  I can do that on WU already, without the massive real-money cost per month.

 

This sounds very similar to the experience I had with a couple of friends back in 2012, and why we also left. -- I think the final straw was when our silver ran out our somewhat progressed deed could just be instantly bought up, annexed if you will, by someone else. Completely uprooted.

Edited by Adambean

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12 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The steam client will be the same as the ogwo client, and will be his focus of work, like how Budda did server work and product management

What is 'ogwo' other than 1 random quote on forums so far.. is this turning into the new name of the game, as it's the first time I read staff member to refer to "wurm online" like that...   I'm just *curious*

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I'm on steam 90% of the time.  most of my games friends play on it.  adding WO would help in the searches.  and advertising through links in other similar games will help.

i also would love to see it have it's own server, a fresh new one. but do allow it to be sailed to in  the future.  I'd have a hard time leaving my current deed and things behind. but to have a new adventure with a ton of new players would be fun, and I could see myself doing it. and being 10 times happier knowing in a few months or even in a year, i could transfer my main with my fav items over some day.

 

one other idea, as i'm a huge fan of progression servers. like on everquest starting from the beginning and adding new expansions later.  I say this as i'd love to see wurm online progression server.  go way back to one story homes, green only outfits. ect .lol could be a fun short term server. for us older folks to show the new plays how it was vs is now.  love watching this game grow. 10 yrs now since i've been online

 

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On 9/23/2019 at 1:11 PM, Legios said:

Just gonna drop this here to remind you all of the interest anything Wurm has on steam. Best of luck though.

 tvynWw3.png

WU is very risky and many of us don't play on it. i've been on 3 of those servers and was enjoying my time. but one day i go to log in and find it gone or reset. all my time and work was gone.  so i don't play WU at all unless my own personal server for testing things.   WO would attract more players as it would be one server and a stable server not dropping connections often and never resetting.  it will have a better chance then WU.  WO has been loosing players too. but this could help, better to try and fail then just give up. 

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11 minutes ago, validate said:

better to try and fail then just give up. 

 

^^  Yes

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On 9/29/2019 at 3:10 PM, Madnath said:

I think one of the things that could be done better is giving a better starter direction. What I mean is, you're just dropped into the game world and you're still mostly learning from the Wiki. I'd love to see the journal made more prominent to new starters, being told "Hey there's this thing that gives you rewards and a good idea of what you need to be doing next in general, take a look!"

Maybe even make the journal interactive at the start?

How about there's a journal tier that you can only see in the tutorial when you start playing, and you can't access it again even if you open the tutorial from the journal? Once the basic movement is done and things are being flashed on screen, highlight the journal option and have the player open it. Have all the tutorial actions in this journal tier and give them 1 hour of sleep bonus as a reward to help give them a little step up on the way.

 

I think the journal is one of the best adds I've seen in a very long time but it's still not being fully used to its best potential.

Side note, should probably add "Make a Practice doll" to the First Steps or Finding the Path journal tier since fighting is such a vital skill, especially early on when trying to find your way.

 

 

I highly recommend you start a new character. The new tutorial fires up as soon as you login and starts walking you through how to do everything. Do you want to know the most asked question about the tutorial? "How do I turn it off." Want to know the most common questions after that? "How do I do <insert everything covered in the tutorial>"

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Please do not seperate the community even more.

 

IMO 3 options:

  • connect WO servers to WO Steam servers -> fun for the old community, but you keep the current issues and "power blalance".
  • close WO and transfer the (premium?) accounts
  • close WO and let everyone restart.

The latter might be harse and might be unpopular, but atleast all players will start as equals and get to experience a launch.

Give WO (premium) players an incentive (redeem code) to play WO Steam.

 

Get rid of the bloody accounts sales and snowballing mechanisms (permabonuses and tomes) on PVP in WO Steam.

The concept of sandbox, PMK's and war over territorial conquest is quite interesting.

 

Might a decision that benefits the game on the long run and not some specific players.

Communicate your decision well so people know what they will get into.

 

Ask yourself these questions:

- Why would we continue playing WO if the main platform will be Steam?

- What will make WO Steam a success? Why play WO Steam if WU is already on Steam?

 

Good luck.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Bittereinder said:

IMO 3 options:

  • connect WO servers to WO Steam servers -> fun for the old community, but you keep the current issues and "power blalance".

 

Not viable in my opinion, and certainly not planned.

 

Quote
  • close WO and transfer the (premium?) accounts

 

Most WO players will quit, me certainly. It is not just my account, but my deed, my stuff, my alliance, all that. Being robbed of that would make me lose all trust in CCAB once and forever.

 

Quote
  • close WO and let everyone restart.

 

Same as above, only more radical. Nearly all WO players will quit except those sniffing "market opportunities" meaning only the most greedy and potentially corrupt part of the community will stay.

 

Quote

Get rid of the bloody accounts sales and snowballing mechanisms (permabonuses and tomes) on PVP in WO Steam.

 

While account trafficking is a separate thing, permabonuses and tomes will not exist in stwo for quite a time, and hopefully not player gods either.

 

Quote

The concept of sandbox, PMK's and war over territorial conquest is quite interesting.

 

Maybe PvP will recover on stwo though I am skeptical. Concepts were and are interesting indeed. Let's hope for the best.

 

Quote

Ask yourself these questions:

- Why would we continue playing WO if the main platform will be Steam?

 

As long as my environment and community is not destroyed, I shall certainly continue playing WO as long as I can freely start the launcher. If all my accounts and characters had to be managed over steam accounts, it would not make me happy, but as long as my gameplay is not crippled by, so what.  For me, steam is but a management thing, and new servers are just separate new servers. I may choose one day to start a character there, or not.

 

Quote

- What will make WO Steam a success? Why play WO Steam if WU is already on Steam?

 

I think one of the problems of stagnating and therefore dwindling player base is the practical invisibility of WO to the outside world. Steam, with its up to 14 million simultaneously logged in accounts per day, may be a good step to break that isolation. Yet it must be made clear from beginning that WO is a niche game aiming at players not expecting uber fast progress and endgame contents within weeks. Otherwise it will be review bombed to death.

 

As to WU, that is a one time purchase by individual players, with most servers appearing and dying fast. It is not comparable to WO. Still there are not few playing it.

Quote

Good luck.

Agreed

Edited by Ekcin
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Spoiler
1 hour ago, Bittereinder said:

Please do not seperate the community even more.

 

IMO 3 options:

  • connect WO servers to WO Steam servers -> fun for the old community, but you keep the current issues and "power blalance".
  • close WO and transfer the (premium?) accounts
  • close WO and let everyone restart.

The latter might be harse and might be unpopular, but atleast all players will start as equals and get to experience a launch.

Give WO (premium) players an incentive (redeem code) to play WO Steam.

 

Get rid of the bloody accounts sales and snowballing mechanisms (permabonuses and tomes) on PVP in WO Steam.

The concept of sandbox, PMK's and war over territorial conquest is quite interesting.

 

Might a decision that benefits the game on the long run and not some specific players.

Communicate your decision well so people know what they will get into.

 

Ask yourself these questions:

- Why would we continue playing WO if the main platform will be Steam?

- What will make WO Steam a success? Why play WO Steam if WU is already on Steam?

 

Good luck.

 

Spoiler

I'm not restarting..

Idea to merge at start is cute.. but new players will be deep in the old well known sh... with market/'vets'/uniques/... and all that current meta nonsense that is more or less toxic.. new people could benefit from a new server and less contacts with the old players, to be given a better chance to experience the game.. rather than instantly dip in the dramas of all sorts. What I do believe is.. that if that was achieved.. devs could really use the feedback from the new community sharing what they like or don't like, what we old players can not do.. is have a fresh eyes over the game.

 

'main' was considered to be wo but lately even staff calls it og, making it sound DEAD to me. Plan as it was shared was.. steam hook, if people bite on that.. they're supposed to be reeled back in freedom cluster?

 

why wo and not wu?

People love sandboxes, survival(unless that two hypes died), etc.. wurm have a bit better graphics than few years back, people got better pcs.. quite easy to get decent graphics and a timer-killer after work, downside subscription model, that's not for everybody, many of the buy2play+sub games have eventually turned to b2p only nowdays, juicing things further with dlcs.

wu's downside is ... you still have to spend a lot of time to build what and where you want it.. but servers are here today.. not.. tomorrow, you restart a few times.. and get tired of resetting, and move to older/st wu servers.. if that's still not for you, personal server.. if you're somewhat social creature.. only option is WO in the end..

Depends what you look for.. pve/pvp/survival/exploration adventures for different reasons/shenanigans..

 

Why play wurm in general? What the .... else is out there to play?

Currently nothing really stands out.. and if it does.. you'll be bored in a month or 3. So why not play wurm than, you'll have something to do for years and make some friends.

 

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18 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

 

I highly recommend you start a new character. The new tutorial fires up as soon as you login and starts walking you through how to do everything. Do you want to know the most asked question about the tutorial? "How do I turn it off." Want to know the most common questions after that? "How do I do <insert everything covered in the tutorial>"

Oh I've seen it and it's absolutely fantastic, I just feel like the journal would be a great way to help players not only find their footing and direction, but the ideal way to reward putting work in. Not sure if the journal is really highlighted in the current tutorial but I cannot sing my praises about it enough, it's such a perfect tool for players new and existing and can only get better with more focus and maybe more tiers?

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Posted (edited)
On 10/2/2019 at 1:36 AM, kochinac said:

Reading this thread more and more i really get frustrated with people.

First of all when will people learn that if downfall of Wurm comes they are the one to blame and not Wurm team. Heck it's only handfull of them against human nature. When will people who play this game learn that they have the power to shut it down and not the team. You love this game as you claim, ###### stick with it, sink with it if it needs, ###### the 80 euros you threw away, instead of trying to cash out and flee like a rat on a first wawe. Whining and demanding about how population is low and there are too much servers won't get you anywhere.  I also think that seperating steam players is bad idea but pesimistic mentality of people is unbelievable lately.

If you really love this game and want it to last, if you want players numbers to stop declining endure the hard times, stick with it and hope for better future otherwise we shall surely fail. It is us who can solve problem of declining playerbase by simply stop declining and having a little more faith in them not the dev team.

Peace out

 

 

Economy too top heavy, over saturated high level accounts and all skill roles have been filled x10 for many years.

 

New players have no stake in wurm, simple as that. Account trading is a big percentage of this problem, high level accounts should have died / leave with the original creator. Sorry you spend 200-500 Silver on a character you didnt make bud.

Edited by Jeston
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Posted (edited)
On 10/4/2019 at 1:21 AM, validate said:

WU is very risky and many of us don't play on it. i've been on 3 of those servers and was enjoying my time. but one day i go to log in and find it gone or reset. all my time and work was gone.  so i don't play WU at all unless my own personal server for testing things.   WO would attract more players as it would be one server and a stable server not dropping connections often and never resetting.  it will have a better chance then WU.  WO has been loosing players too. but this could help, better to try and fail then just give up. 

 

There's only 2 reliable WU servers: Sklotopolis (Europe) and Mythmoor (US)
They've been around forever; no wipes, active admins

Edited by Dextrome

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15 minutes ago, Dextrome said:

 

There's only 2 reliable WU servers: Sklotopolis (Europe) and Mythmoor (US)
They've been around forever; no wipes, active admins

 

Otherlands - going strong since February 2016.

 

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Posted (edited)

Sklotopolis, Mythmoor, Otherlands,

 

and also Mystic Highlands.

 

and also KangaWU (Budda's public server) which opened right at WU release

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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I vote for localhost, possibly the "largest one" with all the souls playing like that. 😃

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Player run servers will always lack the reliability and consistency of 'official' servers and throwing random names out won't change that. Wyvern used to be considered the 'main' WU server with the most players until it randomly shut down out of the blue.

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