Rolf

WO Steam Discussion

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

You really should let players go all the way to 100 with no subscription and no penalty in skill gain.  Out with subscriptions.  It is not the right business model these days.  Make the cash from deeds, items, cosmetics, etc.  Make deeds significantly more expensive and people will be less inclined to gobble up huge tracts of land, which should make the server more available for players to get around and find their own deed spaces.  I'd suffer from this big time, but I also probably should not be hogging so much land for myself. 

 

Create a fee structure for vehicles and animals.  Base account can have x number of each and if someone wants a massive shipyard or scatter carts all over the server, they need to pay a small fee to increase.  Look at DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online).  Pay to increase storage capacity.  Pay to increase bank storage.  Lots of conveniences you can buy for an account, but once bought and paid for, you own that capability forever.

 

Yeah, lots of transactions to slowly drain you over time, but ONLY when you choose to and AT ALL TIMES, you can play the game without a subscription.  When you are too poor to afford a sub, you can still play and not get a penalty.  When you get grandma's xmas check, go crazy and buy up all the extra storage, features, etc. 

 

The number one reason I take long breaks from this game, is because it always requires I buckle down and drop a ton on subscriptions.  WHat is worse is that when I need to take a break shortly after subbing, I get really angry with myself for wasting all that money, because most of the subscription goes to waste.

 

Subscription MMOs are only good for the people that are always available to play all the time.  For everyone else, it feels like our characters are being held hostage.

 

PLEASE move forward with the Steam MMO option, but make it really free to play, not free to 20, or free with skill speed penalties.  Either is a sure way to fail this project.  Even if you charge nothing for anything, it would be good to at least test how much you can grow the player base.  If it grows a ton, slip in a small fee for some feature, then later add another, etc.  Get the players first.  Don't do anything that will limit how many players might sign up.

 

You need an addicted player first, before you can squeeze a dime out of them.

That's some of the worst ideas i've ever heard apart from more expensive deeds. +1 to that, as well as increased upkeep for them and more expensive guards.

I'd implement a system where upkeep goes down the more people you have on your deed, let's say 0.5% per villager and where for every 24 hours of the mayor not being online 0.5% of the money from the coffers is taken. 

 

I'd reduce the subscription price to what they originally were and possibly add some cosmetic items to a cash shop but that's about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just feels like it wont be that impactful. The game has been around for years, many heard of it, tried it, or find the WU steam version. It sounds maybe convenient to centralize on steam, but overall I just wonder if it would really attract anyone. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

Experienced players might actually burn out fastest though and head back to their "mains".  Who really wants to level Channeling and Weaponsmithing to 100 twice?  Most might wait till a server cluster merge, then sail their caravels over packed with construction supplies and mastercrafters loaded with gold coin. By then the new player merchants will have an advantage in "community roots".

 

Also -- and I am NOT suggesting it -- disabling multiboxing might help even the terrain (plus improve the economy)  for new players.

Most veteran players can manage 3-6-9 accounts easy-peasy but less so for the new guys.  Easy to carve out vast terraforming, multiple priests/crafters, thousands of bricks, undergound gold and silver mines that rival Khazad-dûm etc when you have 5 alts and a cart. The downside is, multiple accounts = multiple subs = more revenue (if Rolf uses subscriptions, vs pure cash shop options)

 

 

I highly doubt that, and you are severely underestimating the people who play this game. Many vets would probably not go back to their main since they've done everything on it, and find it boring, hence they want to start new, and wouldn't mind grinding again. Maybe a lot of them are not even playing anymore for that reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Postes said:

Just feels like it wont be that impactful. The game has been around for years, many heard of it, tried it, or find the WU steam version. It sounds maybe convenient to centralize on steam, but overall I just wonder if it would really attract anyone. 

It would attract people, but i'm unsure what the devs are expecting without proper advertisement. Just quietly pushing out WO on steam like they did with WU and then hoping for the best will not get more players for the game. 

 

Random facebook posts, messaging random websites to do some articles about Wurm and random streams that are not shown anywhere but on facebook and here on the forums, are not proper advertisements. 

 

Just look at how they released Jackal. No prior announcements, no countdowns to it, nobody talking about it, no trailers, no prior videos, no nothing. Only some dev blog posts about it prior release, that are once again, seen nowhere but here on the forums.

 

They just made a post about it one day here on the forums that it's out and that was that. HUGE wasted opportunity, it's like the devs don't even want to advertise anything new, that gets released, even though they themselves have said that it would be the next big thing. 

Edited by atazs
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They need also to increase their group of streamers to include people who do not primarily stream Wurm.   Guess what? Most of their followers already know about Wurm

 

That does not mean to ignore the loyalist streamers who have worked for years to promote the game, simply expand that base. Pick out some games that are a similar genre, find people who stream those games, and ask whether they would like to try a beta build. Maybe also let them give 5 beta keys to followers. Then after the beta, close down that server and make sure the keys are no good for the OFFICIAL launch, so you don;t simply get people selling keys. You don;t need just the "big league" gamers, lots of streamers and youtubers will focus on small indie games that no one has ever heard of.  Rimworld and 7D2D were both pretty small until savvy developers got a few "indie" youtubers interested. Come to think of it, so was Minecraft ^_^). Some are pretty polished at putting out nice videos too.

 

Speaking of selling keys, literally sell some of those beta-only keys in the WO cash shop for the current playerbase.  I know you have your handpicked favorites for hush-hush secret testing,  but why NOT make a couple initial builds available to current players for a pretty low price, on the understanding those keys are no good for final Steam release. You might pull in a lot of people who left Wurm years ago.

 

Or a "free weekend" for all current =AND= past Wurm players, once we are within 2 weeks of launch. Stagger the weekends if you don't want to have thousands at once crashing the server.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, atazs said:

It would attract people, but i'm unsure what the devs are expecting without proper advertisement. Just quietly pushing out WO on steam like they did with WU and then hoping for the best will not get more players for the game. 

 

Random facebook posts, messaging random websites to do some articles about Wurm and random streams that are not shown anywhere but on facebook and here on the forums, are not proper advertisements. 

 

Just look at how they released Jackal. No prior announcements, no countdowns to it, nobody talking about it, no trailers, no prior videos, no nothing. Only some dev blog posts about it prior release, that are once again, seen nowhere but here on the forums.

 

They just made a post about it one day here on the forums that it's out and that was that. HUGE wasted opportunity, it's like the devs don't even want to advertise anything new, that gets released, even though they themselves have said that it would be the next big thing. 

but jackal is the same of old challenge servers, a test without saying is a test. WU released after the server gone. WO on steam will be released after first (or second) jackal, also normal ways of wurm dont work on steam because you can get AAA games for less than 1 month of subscription and there is WU too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, atazs said:

I highly doubt that, and you are severely underestimating the people who play this game. Many vets would probably not go back to their main since they've done everything on it, and find it boring, hence they want to start new, and wouldn't mind grinding again. Maybe a lot of them are not even playing anymore for that reason. 

 

They would also probably keep many of their "Old World" deeds paid up, as well as some of their alts, as deed caretakers. Because they want those monuments to last forever, and some are willing to pay double costs to do that.

 

And if many former Wurmers are not playing any more "for that reason" (they hit 100 in every skill and are B-O-R-E-D), well getting them back into Wurm is worth it, and a small handful might "inspire" new players without completely over whelming them with the entire current playerbase.

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

They need also to increase their group of streamers to include people who do not primarily stream Wurm.   Guess what? Most of their followers already know about Wurm

 

That does not mean to ignore the loyalist streamers who have worked for years to promote the game, simply expand that base. Pick out some games that are a similar genre, find people who stream those games, and ask whether they would like to try a beta build. Maybe also let them give 5 beta keys to followers. Then after the beta, close down that server and make sure the keys are no good for the OFFICIAL launch, so you don;t simply get people selling keys. You don;t need just the "big league" gamers, lots of streamers and youtubers will focus on small indie games that no one has ever heard of.  Rimworld and 7D2D were both pretty small until savvy developers got a few "indie" youtubers interested. Come to think of it, so was Minecraft ^_^). Some are pretty polished at putting out nice videos too.

 

Speaking of selling keys, literally sell some of those beta-only keys in the WO cash shop for the current playerbase.  I know you have your handpicked favorites for hush-hush secret testing,  but why NOT make a couple initial builds available to current players for a pretty low price, on the understanding those keys are no good for final Steam release. You might pull in a lot of people who left Wurm years ago.

 

Or a "free weekend" for all current =AND= past Wurm players, once we are within 2 weeks of launch. Stagger the weekends if you don't want to have thousands at once crashing the server.

 

 

Yeah, a free weekend WU sounds extremely good, but it needs to be mentioned somewhere outside of these forums as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should focus on what you already have and market that.

This is more so of an old school game design. There are people out there who like to play games in this type of style.  There are lots of different things to learn and explore in the game.  It is not one which you can just pick up and know how to do everything.  You've got to research, test, explore, ask, experiment...etc to find out more.

 

The main stream crowd generalisation is that they want instant rewards and would just pay for fast skill gains and upgrades.  Easy mode - Instant rewards and something to get them addicted so that they come back for more.  Though, is that really how wurm is? 

 

I've played MMO games like that and even ones where you could buy to level up your character to a high end level, as soon as you start the game.  To skip out on all of the lower level areas to get to the high end, end game content. 

I did not play long on those types of games because there is no work.  There is no payoff.  There is no discipline. You did not really get to learn and explore as the days and weeks went on.  You just got alot of free stuff and easy rewards and other ###### piled on top and that is what all of the other MMO games did (That I played at least)

 

 

An idea that I have, is that you should market towards people who love to play old school sandbox games.  Market to people who have the time, money and discipline to stick at the game and become long time members.  To build a community.  That is the number one thing that I personally enjoy here.  The community that you can build.

One idea that I have is marketing to the older generation. This means people in care homes or more so elderly people. This could be like a way for them to still interact in a world, perform many different tasks and who might have more discipline then the normal causal mainstream user.

 

It is an un-tapped market, I think.  You could sell subscriptions or deeds to care homes or even other community spaces. Then their users could use and interact with the wurm world.

 

 

You could also tap into the nostalgic vibes of the old school game interface and design. 

Just look at the Dragon Quest Games and how long they went on for while still keeping some of their old classic elements.  That is what gives a game its identity.

 

For example, if I put in "old school MMO" into Google then I get back over 7 million results.  People like old school MMO games. There is a market for them.

 

 

I do not think that it is wise to compare wurm to other MMO games as well since wurm is more of a laid back kind of game.  To me at least.  One which I play to relax and take the stress away or help deal with stress.  I've seen quite alot of people who play after they get in after a long day at work.  They tend their fields, talk to some people and walk around town. 

 

The great thing with wurm at the moment is that you can do and be whatever you want but you've just got to work at it, learn and explore.   That is what I think makes wurm great!  If you can expand upon that then fab :) More power to ya

Edited by Zexos
Making more space between lines
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting a client on Steam that lets you connect to the official servers would be great for the game and in my opinion is what Wurm Unlimited should have been in the first place. I'm against any sort of further segregation or new servers however. 

 

In my opinion something that would combine the best of all ideas and current game modes:

 

- Release Wurm Online to Steam as a free to download game, game will let you connect to current servers just like the client, nothing changes 

- Wurm Unlimited is completely deleted and is now instead a DLC option of Wurm Online at the same purchase price of Wurm Unlimited,

- Anyone who has purchased Wurm Unlimited should get a code to unlock the DLC for free

- Anyone who is playing Wurm Unlimited should be able to convert over their saves and servers with zero effort to be use with the new client

 

Suddenly everything is completely integrated into the one game and client.

 

I think creating another "cluster" would be an extremely bad idea and I question if we need more maps too. 

Edited by Gavin
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think creating separate clusters is a good idea as well, on long run. It's just same old tierd assumptions trying to "fix" and "refresh" market instead of imprving the gameplay  with QOL and new features to attract players and not lose existing ones. With enough active players supply/demand will do their thing. Focus there and improve upon what you got right now. Otherwise i see only pulling a release/pristine once more and nothing changes on long run. Try gather opinions from those that aren't playing the game and the wider playerbase and see how you can improve instead of keep listening to the loudest 5 on the forum/backstage

Edited by Tor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although this comment will more than likely get removed because the players cannot provide constructive criticism without being threatened to be banned for it. 

 

I hope you pay attention to this Rolf and understand that you need to completely revamp your staff team except your Head GM. I guess it’s hard for you to do since you abandoned ship, but the staff need to stay the heck out of the game. 

 

Also say the thousands of players are say attracted and brought to the game, start doing some things that other popular games are doing in game and out of game. If your focus is going to be PvE, put bosses that individuals have to face. Put PvP zones like Runescape for example. 

  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One reason why I ended up leaving WO for WU permanently a couple years ago was that the monthly cost of multiple premium characters (main and two priests) plus a deed was far above the value I was getting out of it.  If it was the deed only, I could stomach it (or join someone else's deed if I couldn't), but I think this double-dipping for cash is a big reason why so many leave WO once they hit 20.  Priest restrictions were another major pain point that led to my move, because it made the monthly cost problem that much worse.

 

There's also the problem of the in-game economy being mostly stagnant, with what little cash flow there is generally going from those at the bottom to those at the top.  There needs to be more circulation of coin between players, and with specific attention to how that circulation flows.  Some of this also has to do with high-QL tools being priced so low that mid-QL tools can't even sell, so maybe there should be something that makes high-QL stuff much more expensive or difficult to make, scaling the price steeper.  Also someone should look at how tool repair prevents tools from leaving circulation, making the problem worse over time, and take steps to change that.

 

If I'm going to come back to WO, I *need* these issues to be addressed, because a new cluster and starting over isn't going to be enough to win me over.  I can do that on WU already, without the massive real-money cost per month.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Tathar said:

One reason why I ended up leaving WO for WU permanently a couple years ago was that the monthly cost of multiple premium characters (main and two priests) plus a deed was far above the value I was getting out of it.  If it was the deed only, I could stomach it (or join someone else's deed if I couldn't), but I think this double-dipping for cash is a big reason why so many leave WO once they hit 20.  Priest restrictions were another major pain point that led to my move, because it made the monthly cost problem that much worse.

 

There's also the problem of the in-game economy being mostly stagnant, with what little cash flow there is generally going from those at the bottom to those at the top.  There needs to be more circulation of coin between players, and with specific attention to how that circulation flows.  Some of this also has to do with high-QL tools being priced so low that mid-QL tools can't even sell, so maybe there should be something that makes high-QL stuff much more expensive or difficult to make, scaling the price steeper.  Also someone should look at how tool repair prevents tools from leaving circulation, making the problem worse over time, and take steps to change that.

 

If I'm going to come back to WO, I *need* these issues to be addressed, because a new cluster and starting over isn't going to be enough to win me over.  I can do that on WU already, without the massive real-money cost per month.

There is a few problems with that, newbies or bellow 50ql get damage faster than 70-90+ql, without count skiller where enchants worth more than the tool itself. Lot of people will pissed off, including me,  if they tools get wiped out, more if they are full enchanted, runed, imbued AND have rarity. Also can try increse the amount of mats for everything but that will make things more expensive for all AND only people with multiple alts that make bulk items would be the only participating the economy. Traders are other problem, people have multiple deed to farm them not even pay upkeep because get that money from trader, also lots a alts on starting towns to farm the public ones. maybe steam is a good idea if they forbidden transactions with real money between players, even with that thats things will happen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrarily to some that have posted here I am pretty satisfied with how WO is setup now and the updates being made to it. All I would want is some QoL things added such as some of the WU servers have. This thread is about WO on Steam so I think all these proposed changes to the main game should be left out of it. Steam WO can be the testing ground and experiment to mess around with sure, as it will not ruin what WO currently is about. If anything is found to be worthwhile in this experiment of change then it could be considered for an addition/change to the main game.

 

=Ayes=

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Damascus said:

To keep the price as is would need removing all restrictions from characters , you want to be a priest np , want to be a crafter np  even just a warrior ..

Remove that priest can not mine , cut down trees , dig or pave  and last but lease remove the no improvement .

 

A character should and can be anything , yes a lot of players may be peeved but think you have a head start just need add few other skills or sell off and let someone else do it .

 

Wurm a game with no restrictions come play today and make you're own future !

That I agree 1000%!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/23/2019 at 7:14 AM, Rolf said:

Steam gets a bit fussy with real money transactions

 

When it comes to steam they gets fussy about everything for example  you have to go disable the game in order for you to have multiple characters on at one time. Is that an issue that will be addressed??

Edited by Ismira

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shagsangel said:

That I agree 1000%!!!

You do that and just about every character on the Freedom cluster becomes a priest and the value and worth of casts drops below coppers and into the irons. Regardless of what people think, the boundary and difference between a normal and priest account is actually a very smart one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Madnath said:

You do that and just about every character on the Freedom cluster becomes a priest and the value and worth of casts drops below coppers and into the irons. Regardless of what people think, the boundary and difference between a normal and priest account is actually a very smart one.

What "boundary", your priest can do anything, but improve, repair certain things and can not gather 1 resource, that's priest limitations right now.

We'll need a book to write all non-priest limitations.

 

I'm not joining any of that discussion but that word triggers.. had to..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Ismira said:

 

When it comes to steam they gets fussy about everything for example  you have to go disable the game in order for you to have multiple characters on at one time. Is that an issue that will be addressed??

maybe something to select the toon that want to play after login or removing priest restriction like on some WU servers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Finnn said:

What "boundary", your priest can do anything, but improve, repair certain things and can not gather 1 resource, that's priest limitations right now.

We'll need a book to write all non-priest limitations.

 

I'm not joining any of that discussion but that word triggers.. had to..

Improving are two of the most important functions of the entire game. Removing two of the core parts of the game to give a just as important and vital ability is smart. If they remove the limitations, why bother being a normal account when you can priest and have access to just about everything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Madnath said:

You do that and just about every character on the Freedom cluster becomes a priest and the value and worth of casts drops below coppers and into the irons. Regardless of what people think, the boundary and difference between a normal and priest account is actually a very smart one.

I disagree I fully encourage this change. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Madnath said:

Improving are two of the most important functions of the entire game. Removing two of the core parts of the game to give a just as important and vital ability is smart. If they remove the limitations, why bother being a normal account when you can priest and have access to just about everything?

You think everyone wants to be a priest to cast enchants ?

No .. I would just like the fighting or healing buffs ...

Plus you still need lvl them skills like I mentioned before .

some people will get faith to 50 or 60 that's it and maybe higher as they use them .

it still comes down to channeling for power of the enchant anyways ..

 

I think you would have a increase of 30% of players/subs if they removed restrictions ...

And more people would want them alts you sit on for ages or sell off as batteries ..

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Madnath said:

Improving are two of the most important functions of the entire game. Removing two of the core parts of the game to give a just as important and vital ability is smart. If they remove the limitations, why bother being a normal account when you can priest and have access to just about everything?

with that logic I can expect non priests to do any spell, just not be able to improve the spells....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, removing priest restrictions would be a good idea.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.